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Country road, car approaching us coming uphill so we pull in and come to complete stop. Not much space, and other driver ends up misjudging and puts a dent in the side of our car.
They've claimed we were both moving at the time which is a lie, but can anything be done without dashcam footage? Do we really have to suck this up when we weren't the party at fault?
We once were hit by a girl in the farm pick-up when we were driving up a country lane and she was driving down.
Like you, it was out word against hers but we 'won' when we pointed out that we were going uphill so could stop quickly and that our car was pulled into the side of the road and that if we had been moving we would have driven into the hedge.
Not sure if that helps you but I would definitely explain rather than accepting.
Just after we sent our explanation in, our insurance company also received a second communication from her saying she now had whiplash and we had written off her pick-up in the accident. Not sure if we would have been liable for that lot if we had just shrugged and let her first lie be accepoted.
Keep insisting and they might back down, otherwise no (unless the position of the damage makes it clear).
Not saying this is you OP but one of my pet peeves are country lane drivers (often you suspect not regulars) who just come to a stop with a cursor pull over (not enough that their car might get anywhere near hedge etc) and then expect you to make all the judging if there is enough space, all the manoeuvring and risk the ditch the other side and take all the blame if anything were to touch.
Maybe before it's too far down the line write a statement as detailed as you can with any supporting photos (you got photos right?). As they are making it up it's harder for them to stick with one story.
The world is full of lying toe rags. You'll have to fight it, then it's the insurance's decision.
Stick to your guns, the other party when my car got written off went to some ambulance chasers, who then forward the claim to my insurers, who threw it out as the story she gave them was closer to the truth (i.e. what I'd told them), they then reclaimed the money they'd paid out to her insurer!
Made no difference to me in the end as the balance of the claim was still more than my excess, and come renewal time the premium didn't change much (and they weren't bothered that it was split 80/20, just the fact there had been a claim and the total value).
I think you'll struggle without dashcam footage, unless they back down (and that would now be admitting providing a false statement) I would have thought it would be a 50:50 settlement to avoid court costs (for what sounds like a fairly minor settlement)
Just to clarify, we were travelling downhill, so pulled over into an eroded type passing place in order to give way. We were pushed against the hedge at the side, fully over.
If the position was reversed, I wouldn't have wanted to have risked a collision if I thought there wasn't enough space.
Dent to our rear door, and damage to their front end. Chap admitted fault at the time, but how things change.
MarkyG - yes have photos from moments after it happened.
Will push it and see what happens. Thanks all.
I'd like to think that any half-decent insurer would be able to tell from experience when someone is being dishonest. Stick to your guns. What have you got to lose?
I've won a his-word-against-mine claim before now by dint of refusing to accept a 50:50 settlement "offer" from my insurer when I knew full well that I wasn't at fault. Though that was half a lifetime ago.
You’ve said we in a couple of your posts, was there someone else in the car with you? How many people were in the other car? Surely you can use them as witnesses
Just keep pushing from your side to your insurer and tell them to go to court if you have to. They and their insurer will back down eventually or, you go to court with all your evidence.
My wife's insurer wanted her to accept 50/50 and she wouldn't on principle, why should she. The other party relented when told we would go to court
Had the very same thing happen to me a few years back on a dark country lane and my car was written off.
Insurer kept asking me to accept 50/50 and I refused until they gave me no choice.
Annoyingly the other party had no damage as the tyre of their Volvo 4x4 is what made contact with my car.
I had similar years ago and used the legal cover on the insurance to pursue. It was going to end up in court as neither of us would accept 50/50. The 3rd party admitted fault the night before the court date.
BikePawl
You’ve said we in a couple of your posts, was there someone else in the car with you? How many people were in the other car? Surely you can use them as witnesses
I was in the passenger seat, my partner was driving. They also had someone in the passenger seat.
Appreciate the comments, thanks. We'll keep on at the insurers and ultimately, let's see if he is willing to lie in court.
Now to look for dashcam recommendations!
Take it to court - see if they perjury themselves.
It's a nice idea but I'd be surprised if anyone in either the passenger seat would be treated as an impartial witness.
Not a chance in hell. Put it this way, if the other party was a member on here and wrote his version of events, how on earth would we know who was telling the truth.
Unless you come up with some kind of fact that cannot be argued you are looking at 50/50. I really cant see any material fact that would make your word mean more than the other party unfortunately.
It’s a nice idea but I’d be surprised if anyone in either the passenger seat would be treated as an impartial witness.
No, but I guess it's much easier for us to explain exactly what happened, rather than being in the position of having to both lie consistently? Bold move if they want to take it I guess.
Not a chance in hell. Put it this way, if the other party was a member on here and wrote his version of events, how on earth would we know who was telling the truth.
Unless you come up with some kind of fact that cannot be argued you are looking at 50/50. I really cant see any material fact that would make your word mean more than the other party unfortunately.
Maybe.
But if you keep making it clear that you won't take 50/50 and keep pushing your insurer to take it to court if they have to the other chap is more likely to back down
It's times like this I think I really need dash cams, front and rear facing. Surprises me they aren't being fitted on new cars.
Surprises me they aren’t being fitted on new cars.
Mine has them factory fitted however I would have to pay an additional subscription to activate them.
If you were in a type of passing place and close to the hedge, your photos of that should support that you weren't moving. It's hard to see how you could bring your rear door into contact with their front, if you were moving in that position.
so pulled over into an eroded type passing place in order to give way. We were pushed against the hedge at the side, fully over.
If you have photos of your car in there and their car also at teh point of collision, that would seem to me as good support for your case. Also, picture of the same spot with tyre eroded spot, sans car too.
I believe passenger witness statements are not allowed in England but are in Scotland (after a collision in Edinburgh)
Passengers aren't independent witnesses, so can't be used.
I found this out after a woman reversed into my stationary car in a cinema car park, while I held my hand on the horn trying to alert her to the fact she was reversing into my car.
Once we had both pulled up, she then started saying it was my fault. I hit her, I was trying to undertake her etc.
Insurance wanted to claim 50/50 but I refused. Sent in the most detailed statement I could backed up with pics & images from Google Maps.
The repair place corroborated that the damage to my car would have been all but impossible had I been moving & eventually she was found 100% at fault.
It got close to court before they finally conceded.
They’ve claimed we were both moving at the time which is a lie, but can anything be done without dashcam footage? Do we really have to suck this up when we weren’t the party at fault?
Realistically, what practical difference will this actually make, assuming that there won't be any sort of prosecution? Your insurance will (should) make sure your car is reparied. You might end up being on the hook for the excess but that is pretty much it. Is it really wirth the aggrivation and stress of trying to fight it just because you are "right"? Your insuarnce premiums are going to go up either way.
They’ve claimed we were both moving at the time which is a lie, but can anything be done without dashcam footage? Do we really have to suck this up when we weren’t the party at fault?
The other driver doesn't know that you don't have dash cam footage. If you have their details, perhaps offer them a chance to reconsider their story before you "send the whole lot to the police and their insurance company". Getting insurance after a conviction for insurance fraud is pretty much impossible.
Getting insurance after a conviction for insurance fraud is pretty much impossible.
But that would never happen in this case as the OP doesn't have any evidence.
I believe passenger witness statements are not allowed in England but are in Scotland (after a collision in Edinburgh)
That sounds very odd to me (but then I am in Scotland). Obviously, a court (if it were ever to get that far) can decide what weight to place on the different witness statements. Inevitably a husband and wife with matching stories might be less credible than a bystander, or even a taxi passenger etc, but I'd be surprised if the court didn't want the option of making its own mind up on who was more reliable than just getting 2 versions rather than 4. When it comes to subjective matters then passengers may not be good witnesses anyway, and often are poor at distinguishing what they saw and what they pieced together afterwards, but for a matter of fact like "was the vehicle you were in stationary at the time of impact?", I would expect they are quite good witnesses. Moreover, I'd have expected the insurers have minimal interest at this stage in what is or is not admissible evidence and just want something that helps swing the other side to conceding.
I hate people who lie to benefit form insurance claims, at others expense. I witnessed a very slow speed collision between a car and a (stationary) lorry outside my house. Car driver was trying to claim lorry had moved, but that wasn't true, I saw the whole thing. He tried to go through a gap that was too tight. The **** then tried claiming £25k for 'injuries'. He'd got out of his car to see the damage, then driven off. Nothing wrong with him at all. He'd been going about 3mph at the time anyway. I'm not sure of the outcome as I was never called to give evidence in court, but I really, really hope he got done for attempted fraud. Lying bastard.
Realistically, what practical difference will this actually make, assuming that there won’t be any sort of prosecution? Your insurance will (should) make sure your car is reparied. You might end up being on the hook for the excess but that is pretty much it. Is it really wirth the aggrivation and stress of trying to fight it just because you are “right”? Your insuarnce premiums are going to go up either way.
I could be wrong, but from what I understand of the conversation my partner's been having with the insurers so far, our premiums wouldn't rise if it's determined we weren't at fault. Which we weren't. But if it ends up as 50-50 then that's not the case and we lose no claims bonus.
Is it worth the aggravation and stress just because we're right? Well, why not? The other party could have just held their hands up, admitted what happened and we all move on. But no, they want to try and get out of it. They may do so in the end if our photos aren't considered enough, but if we don't push this now then it's kind of encouraging them to do a fraud in the future.
what practical difference will this actually make
Preservation of NCB?
But no, they want to try and get out of it. They may do so in the end if our photos aren’t considered enough, but if we don’t push this now then it’s kind of encouraging them to do a fraud in the future.
It's shit that the default position for so many people these days is to lie their arses off.
Reminds me, must refit the dashcam...
I could be wrong, but from what I understand of the conversation my partner’s been having with the insurers so far, our premiums wouldn’t rise if it’s determined we weren’t at fault.
Some companies will put up premiums others won’t and a NCD might be impacted in the same way. I get where you’re coming from, it’s not right, but whether it is worth the stress to you is another matter.
But that would never happen in this case as the OP doesn’t have any evidence.
They don't know that...
NCD doesnt mean much really (although I always add it on just in case). Well only if you stay with same comp. Ever been asked if you have made a claim in the last 5 years? NCD doesnt protest that. Call me a cynic, but as soon as you talk to your insurance about a claim, regardless of fault, it will go up 🙁
Feel sorry for you OP, I suspect it will go 50/50, but you might as well fight it as far as you can and make use of your legal protection if you have it
It’s shit that the default position for so many people these days is to lie their arses off.
I would say it isn't even these days.
We had two bumps in 1997 and 2008 which the other drivers just lied to their insurers - one even knew that there were multiple independent witnesses and still tried it on.
Sadly it is all too common, we had a cut and dried incident where we were sat in a queue of traffic and a parked vehicle was reversed out into the carriageway and into the side of our van. I watched it happen in disbelief despite standing on the horn to warn the driver. Naturally he admitted it was all his fault, swapped details and off we went. A few days later (after he's chatted to his mates down the pub no doubt) he comes back and says we were illegally parked on a double yellow etc etc and we were at fault when he hit us. It was all very bizarre, annoying and frustrating.
Sadly for him it ended badly, as in a moment of clarity I stuck his number plate in the DVLA checker and bingo, no MOT, not Tax. He had already confirmed in writing that he was driving on the day in question, so I passed it all on to the local plod and he was dealt with by them, fined, and the car ultimately taken off the road
I’m not sure of the outcome as I was never called to give evidence in court, but I really, really hope he got done for attempted fraud. Lying bastard.
Very unusual for them to even try and pursue for fraud. Its a shame because a few high-profile wins and it might encourage some more honesty in the whole system.