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Whilst there is no legal requirement to report a crime, there is a moral duty on everyone of us to report to the police any crime or anything we suspect may be a crime.
https://www.askthe.police.uk/faq/?id=643d6d10-2a4d-ec11-8f8e-000d3ad556e5
there is a moral duty on everyone of us to report to the police any crime or anything we suspect may be a crime.
Any crime? Christ TJ, you must have an open telephone line to the cops. Maybe you need your own radio?
Funny though, cos the cops themselves obviously ignore their own advice. Like I said, most of us live in the real world..
So, a functioning alcoholic can do anything except drive?
Whilst there is no legal requirement to report a crime, there is a moral duty on everyone of us to report to the police any crime or anything we suspect may be a crime.
Remember ‘Crimestoppers’? The ‘hotline’ for reporting crimes anonymously?
They packed it in because the only people ringing it were rival drug dealers trying to get each other busted
Absolutely not condoning it but I agree with the other rural dwellers that this is way more common than most urban people think. I used to have a job that involved visiting farms and most of them have a car/4x4 somewhere with smashed up bumpers ect that had been driven back from the pub one too many times. One farm in particular had 5 smashed up Isuzu Troopers parked behind the barn that the old Farmer had crashed while pissed.One of the problems is that they all know each other and so stuff doesn't get reported ( they just phone them in the morning eg "Hi Bert! Look .sorry but I knocked some of your wall down last night on my way home from the pub. Do you want me to ring for a dry stone waller to put it right or shall we just call it even after your lad smashed my gatepost last week?") There are certain roads around here that it is wise not to be on when it's chucking out time.
there is a moral duty on everyone of us to report to the police any crime or anything we suspect may be a crime.
Don't be silly. I have no qualms reporting a potential crime which might result in the death of an innocent person but I would certainly not report my neighbour if I knew that their car tax had expired!
In fact I would question the moral compass of anyone who did!
In very simple terms I would not report any crime which I could see myself committing. That probably automatically excludes quite a lot! 😂
Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone and all that.
Well done OP. Along with drunk drivers, those who see this as snitching need to look carefully at themselves. If the law says something that is right. Don't like it? Don't live in our society or do something about it in a socially acceptable manner. Those who object to this obviously have low moral standards and care little for society. Every crime costs something to some body. I assume that by not objecting to car tax avoidance the OP never ever complains about lack of government funding for anything. Of course this is STW, home of hypocrisy. I would make it a crime not to report a crime.
I was just thinking we haven't had a Peak STW thread in a while.
When I lived on a peninsula accessible by ferry the guys working the ferry used to call the pubs to say if the police where on the way. It took them 40 minutes to reach our pub so time for another pint. Best to avoid the roads at closing time but there was no last orders only last man standing time. I used to stagger home on my wobbly feet but driving was perfectly normal.
I would make it a crime not to report a crime.
Trump approves of this.
Think I'm just more inclined to let people make their own decisions and deal with the consequences themselves
Hang about. Am I missing some context here?
Because the consequences of drink driving don't just affect the guy who made the decision to drink drive..you understand that right?
If you have a mate who is getting into his car over the limit and you take that attitude and say nothing, you are very much part of the problem
The problem with making it a crime not to report a crime is that you would never be off the 'phone!
Speeding driver? report!
Fouling dog? Report!
Smell weed? report!
Someone using mobile when driving? Report!
there is a moral duty on everyone of us to report to the police any crime or anything we suspect may be a crime.
Any crime? Christ TJ, you must have an open telephone line to the cops. Maybe you need your own radio?
Funny though, cos the cops themselves obviously ignore their own advice. Like I said, most of us live in the real world..
direct from the ask the police website
Remember that just because something is a crime does not make the law a moral one. Eg The bloke who reported where Anne Frank's family was hiding was just being a fine law abiding citizen.A modern equivalent would be would you report someone who had sympathies for Palestine Action? ( a proscribed terrorist organisation). Don't get me wrong the Drink driving law IS a moral law and no right thinking person would have any problem with it being a criminal offence but the whole "make it a crime not to report a crime" has very bad overtones.
Remember ‘Crimestoppers’? The ‘hotline’ for reporting crimes anonymously?
They packed it in
Someone forgot to tell them. Perhaps you should tell them, if its not snitching?
Going back to drinking and driving in rural areas. Unfortunately Tony Parsons is one of them who found out the hard way that the locals had a habit of doing so. His family then suffered for several more years not knowing what had happened.
The problem with making it a crime not to report a crime is that you would never be off the 'phone!
How many layers of not reporting the crime of not reporting the crime do we go? It's a fascists wet dream.
The problem with making it a crime not to report a crime is that you would never be off the 'phone!
Speeding driver? report!
Fouling dog? Report!
Smell weed? report!
Someone using mobile when driving? Report!
Well 2 of those, whilst a bit antisocial don't really lead to a potential child's death, so I'm not going to dob someone in for them. That said I've often challenged someone who hasn't picked up their dog xxxx
Speeding drivers, well unless I have a speed camera that's not going to really work is it
If I saw some entitled prick on their mobile phone whilst driving and had the opportunity to film it (unlikely given id either be driving myself or if not they'd be past me before I could have the chance) then yeah I absolutely would
One of our cycling club members was killed by a woman on her mobile phone, so I'd do it without hesitation
I was just thinking we haven't had a Peak STW thread in a while.
As if to prove your point, we’re comparing drink drivers to Anne Frank now.
Someone using mobile when driving? Report!
Right up there with drink driving in its very real potential to kill other road users. I'm pretty surprised a cyclist would put that in the same category as dog fouling ffs! If I had decent dash cam footage of some knob doing this, I'd upload it to Operation snap without hesitation. Yeah, yeah stasi, self righteous, whatever. I'd give zero f***s about anyone accusing me of those for doing it either.
Wow, this thread is a bit all over the shop.
All I will say is that I live in a rural area and often ride on county roads in the night.
The driving here is always pretty awful but it gets worse later at night. It’s not as bad as it used to be a chuckin out time but I’m quite happy of someone takes action to reduce the chance of me sharing the road with a pissed driver.
Well at least this thread has shown who was bullied at school but too short to join the police 😂
Did you not read the rest of the post? The point was that making it a crime not to report a crime can lead to some dark places.I was just thinking we haven't had a Peak STW thread in a while.
As if to prove your point, we’re comparing drink drivers to Anne Frank now.
I live in a fairly rural area (of Scotland, if that makes a difference) and the amount of drunk driving has reduced significantly over the years. So much so that many rural pubs have closed over the past 40 or so years. These are the pubs you'd often see more city folk in at the weekends.
I think the reduced limits has an effect. I know many folk would have previously considered a couple of pints as no big deal. I just don't see that these days. Folk either make other arrangements, go AF, or just don't go to the pub.
Speeding driver? report!
Fouling dog? Report!
Smell weed? report!
Someone using mobile when driving? Report!
Do people on here (and kaiser TJ in particular) seriously want to live in a society where everyone's snitching on eachother all the time for every single misdemeanor and transgression? I can't think of anything worse to be honest and I'm glad I live in the real world rather than this weird moralistic and authoritarian STW version of it.
Right up there with drink driving in its very real potential to kill other road users.
Much worse than drinking 3 pints IMO. What's TJ's solution to this? More road blocks? Thrashing people who've been caught at the side of the road? Chopping their texting fingers off?
Well at least this thread has shown who was bullied at school but too short to join the police 😂
I'm sure you are probably an alright person in real life, but you don't half come across as a bit of a c### on here
Yes but you would have to do it EVERY time you saw it ( I've just got back from my break and on my short walk along the road saw 9 people on their mobiles whilst driving.Do I take a notebook and jot all their registrations down and report them all together when I got back to work? Or do I ring the police separately for each one? Remember you don't need evidence to report a crime (that's the investigating Officer's job) so you would also have to report every speeding driver you see (speed camera or not).The problem with making it a crime not to report a crime is that you would never be off the 'phone!
Speeding driver? report!
Fouling dog?
Smell weed? report!
Someone using mobile when driving? Report!
Well 2 of those, whilst a bit antisocial don't really lead to a potential child's death, so I'm not going to dob someone in for them. That said I've often challenged someone who hasn't picked up their dog xxxx
Speeding drivers, well unless I have a speed camera that's not going to really work is it
If I saw some entitled prick on their mobile phone whilst driving and had the opportunity to film it (unlikely given id either be driving myself or if not they'd be past me before I could have the chance) then yeah I absolutely would
One of our cycling club members was killed by a woman on her mobile phone, so I'd do it without hesitation
whilst drink drive rules (and just as importantly attitudes to it) must have had an effect it’s probably not the whole picture. Staff costs, energy bills, duty etc have all pushed the price of a pint up quite a lot - which means that popping down the pub is a financial commitment whilst finding and retaining staff in rural areas to work unsocial hours, potentially seasonally, is particularly hard. Attitudes to drink have changed and so more of us expect food - which means more staff… and gen Z have come along with their new ideas and 20-25% of them don’t drink at all…I live in a fairly rural area (of Scotland, if that makes a difference) and the amount of drunk driving has reduced significantly over the years. So much so that many rural pubs have closed over the past 40 or so years. These are the pubs you'd often see more city folk in at the weekends.
I think the reduced limits has an effect. I know many folk would have previously considered a couple of pints as no big deal. I just don't see that these days. Folk either make other arrangements, go AF, or just don't go to the pub.
I'm sure you are probably an alright person in real life, but you don't half come across as a bit of a c### on here
I’m actually even more of a c### in real life 😃
I'm sure you are probably an alright person in real life, but you don't half come across as a bit of a c### on here
Oh no that puts me in a moral dilemma, do I report for swear avoidance or not - asking for a friend and all that.
dazh - that quote I put up was not mine - it was from the ask the police webpage
Resorting to insults shows you have lost the arguement.
every single misdemeanor and transgression?
Here's the fundamental split in this thread. Some think drink driving is a serious crime which regularly kills people and which should be reported, however endemic it is. Some think it's just a "misdemeanor". Exactly the same applies to texting whilst driving. Trivialising these things as "misdemeanors" is part of the reason why so many deluded f***wits think there's no harm in it and regularly drive lagered up or texting their mates.
Right up there with drink driving in its very real potential to kill other road users.
Much worse than drinking 3 pints IMO. What's TJ's solution to this? More road blocks? Thrashing people who've been caught at the side of the road? Chopping their texting fingers off?
What's your solution to it? You give the strong impression that you don't think there is one? Just give up on it? Apologies if I've got you wrong but that's how it comes across. A combination of more proactive road policing, other drivers reporting it, AI driven cameras detecting it, better driver education, harsher penalties and insurers refusing to cover offenders. None will stop it, but a combination might reduce it or make it more socially unacceptable. I think we have to try, don't you?
it’s probably not the whole picture
Absolutely, but I could easily name half a dozen pubs around Edinburgh that closed in the 80s and 90s. Not that I'd completely rule out these increased costs, but drink-driving campaigns and public awareness played a huge part. Some folk just seem to want to accept things the way they are, others would like to see a bit more done to reduce the number of deaths. There are still seasonal drink-driving campaigns and increased enforcement in some regions but these seem to be too short-lived.
BTW Binners - the minimum height requirement for the police is long gone. 🙂
Best to avoid the roads at closing time but there was no last orders only last man standing time. I used to stagger home on my wobbly feet but driving was perfectly normal.
Your reactions will have been significantly affected, the clue is is in the fact that you staggered and your feet felt wobbly.
The most dangerous aspect of drink driving isn't that it might effect your steering and changing gears skills but that it can rob you of life-saving automatic reactions.
It is a similar thing with regards to driving whilst very tired. I have on occasions felt very uncomfortable and guilty about driving whilst very tired. The problem though is that often it isn't necessarily very obvious at the start of a journey and once committed it can be very hard to resolve, especially if you are a long way from motorway services.
Do people on here (and kaiser TJ in particular) seriously want to live in a society where everyone's snitching on eachother all the time for every single misdemeanor and transgression? I can't think of anything worse to be honest and I'm glad I live in the real world rather than this weird moralistic and authoritarian STW version of it.
Depends if you see drink driving as a minor misdemeanour or transgression. Where do you draw the line on things you would report? What offences would you report? Assuming you were not directly at risk yourself would you report someone you suspect was in possession of child porn? Who was hanging round a school or playground taking pics of kids? Who was in their 60s going to meet teenage girls they met on the internet? What about the guy who sits beside the only lone female on a quiet train and she looks really uncomfortable? All of them may not actually be committing and offence but you might wake up tomorrow and see headlines that make you regret staying quiet for the rest of your life.
I'm sure you are probably an alright person in real life, but you don't half come across as a bit of a c### on here
Oh no that puts me in a moral dilemma, do I report for swear avoidance or not - asking for a friend and all that.
Cuck is a swearword?
Well at least this thread has shown who was bullied at school but too short to join the police 😂
So it seems that pretty much everyone on this thread was bullied at school then?
Btw I'm over six foot and in the words of Lee Mack "It's great" 😃
What's your solution to it?
Pretty much what already happens. Use public PR campaigns to educate people, use the law and it's consequences to deter people from doing it, and then leave it up to them. What we don't need is some sort of dystopian mass surveillance culture where everyone is encouraged to snitch on people every time they think someone is transgressing.
This whole thread was started by the OP patting themselves on the back for reporting someone who almost certainly wasn't arrested as a result. I'm sure they thought they were doing the world a major service, and no doubt felt good about it, but in reality it probably made almost no impact in solving the problem of drink-driving.
Well at least this thread has shown who was bullied at school but too short to join the police
Hilarious..I may pass that bit of humour onto the sister of my dead clubmate. She'll no doubt find it humorous as well..
I’m actually even more of a c### in real life
I imagine you are..just not quite as bold in real life with the insults I suspect.
I have on occasions felt very uncomfortable and guilty about driving whilst very tired.
You should be taken out the back and shot quite frankly. Shocking and unjustifiable behaviour!
What we don't need is some sort of dystopian mass surveillance culture where everyone is encouraged to snitch on people every time they think someone is transgressing.
I agree. But showing some social responsibility if you see someone committing a crime with a very real potential to cause death or injury is a very, very long way from that.
All I will say is that I live in a rural area and often ride on county roads in the night.
The driving here is always pretty awful but it gets worse later at night. It’s not as bad as it used to be a chuckin out time but I’m quite happy of someone takes action to reduce the chance of me sharing the road with a pissed driver.
My daughters work in hospitality on your side of Gower, and they were the ones who used the description 'five and drive'. I hadn't heard it phrased that way before They have only been driving for a few years, and often tell me stories about their peers - most recently one who turned his car over for the umpteenth time near Cattle And Co and a 21 year girl recently being arrested and prosecuted for drink driving.
I'm happy to night ride most places on Gower but I won't go anywhere near the Penclawdd road if I can help it.
What's your solution to it?
Pretty much what already happens. Use public PR campaigns to educate people, use the law and it's consequences to deter people from doing it, and then leave it up to them.
An estimated 300 dead a year, how well is that working out? Are those acceptable numbers?
What we don't need is some sort of dystopian mass surveillance culture where everyone is encouraged to snitch on people every time they think someone is transgressing.
Obviously we're deliberately choosing our scariest, most emotional language there, but roughly where would you draw the line with regard to what people should and shouldn't report?
This whole thread was started by the OP patting themselves on the back for reporting someone who almost certainly wasn't arrested as a result. I'm sure they thought they were doing the world a major service, and no doubt felt good about it, but in reality it probably made almost no impact in solving the problem of drink-driving.
Might have made a difference, probably didn't - had a far, far higher chance of making a difference than doing sweet Fanny Adams.
Actually from my experience highly likely they were arrested. I know of two cases where folk were arrested after public tipoffs
An estimated 300 dead a year, how well is that working out? Are those acceptable numbers?
Not to the victims. But then you could make this argument about any aspect of road (or non-road) safety. How much is it justifiable to impinge on the general freedoms of the public at large in order to save a few, 10s, 100s or 1000s of lives? That's a philisophical question that no one seems to know the exact answer to and is extremely subjective. All I do know is that driving and drinking alcohol are two activities which are endemic in our society, it's hardly a surprise if they overlap. Without banning one or the other (or both) I doubt there will ever be a satisfactory solution to this problem.
I have on occasions felt very uncomfortable and guilty about driving whilst very tired.
You should be taken out the back and shot quite frankly. Shocking and unjustifiable behaviour!
Don't tell me, you reckon that driving whilst very tired is perfectly acceptable?
I hadn't predicted that anyone would especially as I believe that it is the cause of a significant amount of deaths.
More predictable though is that binners is apparently in agreement with you, judging by the like he's given your comment.
Are there any other aspects of dangerous driving that you two keen cyclists approve of?
How much is it justifiable to impinge on the general freedoms of the public at large in order to save a few, 10s, 100s or 1000s of lives?
You see drink driving as a "freedom" not to be impinged on?
Without banning one or the other (or both) I doubt there will ever be a satisfactory solution to this problem.
There's the third option... don't ban drinking, don't ban driving... ban drink driving.
Once you've done that, make a decent attempt to enforce the ban to discourage people drink driving.
Without enforcement, it seems some people will see drink driving as normal, even if educated to the harm it causes.
This thread has convinced me that enforcement requires people other than the police to help them with that, as they don't have the resources to do it without our help.
I'm happy to night ride most places on Gower but I won't go anywhere near the Penclawdd road if I can help it.
The 11pm pub chucking out traffic is less of an issue than it used to be. But as you say, there often are a load of hatchbacks tearing round late at night. At least you can hear them coming!
The trouble is you either put up with the mayhem or don’t cycle anywhere.
How much is it justifiable to impinge on the general freedoms of the public at large in order to save a few, 10s, 100s or 1000s of lives?
Are you a fan of Charlie Kirk?
All I do know is that driving and drinking alcohol are two activities which are endemic in our society, it's hardly a surprise if they overlap. Without banning one or the other (or both) I doubt there will ever be a satisfactory solution to this problem.
Last time I checked, the combination of the 2 is banned (with a tight limit). The only issue is a lack of enforcement
You see drink driving as a "freedom" not to be impinged on?
Oh FFS of course not. What I said was that drinking and driving are separate freedoms that are enjoyed very widely in our society so it's inevitable that the two will overlap. The only full solution to preventing the two overlapping is to remove the freedom to do either or both. Instead we have the partial solution of making it illegal and prosecuting offenders. That still results in hundreds of deaths every year though, and it's debatable whether that number would be reduced significantly by adopting more draconian measure such as TJs mass roadblocks or encouraging a culture of mass surveillance where the public are required to inform on offenders. 300 drink-drive related deaths doesn't seem like a lot to me in the grand scheme of things so maybe the current law and policing practices are about right?
Do you believe this nonsense? Or just bored?
Don't tell me, you reckon that driving whilst very tired is perfectly acceptable?
Jesus Christ what is it with this thread? I was glibly responding to your admission of driving while fatigued. We've all done it, and if we apply the same black and white logic to that as many on here display about drink-driving then we should be taking ourselves down the station and reporting ourselves for driving without due care and attention. We don't though do we?
Or just bored?
Oh I'm bored alright. Although also slightly amused and bemused at the level of holier-than-thou sanctimony displayed on this thread. Anyway, I'm off down the pub, via a bike ride, on my bike. If anyone wants to call the cops I'll be riding home sometime around 8ish. If I see loads of roadblocks I'll know who to blame.
How much is it justifiable to impinge on the general freedoms of the public at large in order to save a few, 10s, 100s or 1000s of lives?
Who said nobody was defending the right to drink and drive? Are you in the pub at the moment? 🤣
Where's the OP? He lobbed a mahoosive grenade then ran for cover, nowhere to be seen! 😆
Jesus Christ what is it with this thread? I was glibly responding to your admission of driving while fatigued.
Oh yeah, I got that you were taking the piss, that was clear, which is why asked you if you thought driving whilst very tired was okay (I love the use of the word fatigued btw, unfortunately I don't feel posh enough to have ever experienced being fatigued)
My point was/is that the issue here isn't primarily the basic physical skills associated driving, they can be fairly unimpaired if the quantity of alcohol isn't particularly great, it's the mental skills associated with reactions which can be significantly affected with even small amounts of alcohol that is the issue.
And that of course extends to situations of tiredness, recreational drugs, and prescription medication.
We can all think that our driving has been unaffected and is just fine, as apparently Marin has in the past, but our reaction times can nevertheless pose a serious risk to ourselves and others
OP has skedaddled back to Europe to take drugs!!
Best to avoid the roads at closing time but there was no last orders only last man standing time. I used to stagger home on my wobbly feet but driving was perfectly normal.
Your reactions will have been significantly affected, the clue is is in the fact that you staggered and your feet felt wobbly.
The most dangerous aspect of drink driving isn't that it might effect your steering and changing gears skills but that it can rob you of life-saving automatic reactions.
It is a similar thing with regards to driving whilst very tired. I have on occasions felt very uncomfortable and guilty about driving whilst very tired. The problem though is that often it isn't necessarily very obvious at the start of a journey and once committed it can be very hard to resolve, especially if you are a long way from motorway services.
It was climbing back on the boat that was the real problem. If you think there's a lot of pissed drivers don't get involved with boaters.
Pull over when tired and have a kip, problem solved for you.
If nothing else, this thread has highlighted who doesn't have enough work to do.
And who fancies themselves inflicting their humourless, self-righteous, tinpot authoritarian tendencies on the rest of society
And who fancies themselves inflicting their humourless, self-righteous, tinpot authoritarian tendencies on the rest of society
Not forgetting those who think society should tolerate committed law breakers who kill.
I don’t think anyone has suggested that, have they?
Though obviously from those who seem to be quite enjoy the booming sound of their own sanctimony, you’d think those of us who take a less draconian and melodramatic view of things were suggesting making drink driving compulsory
I don’t think anyone has suggested that, have they?
I didn't recognize your description so I thought I'd join in. You do seem unduly exercised by this thread though. It must've touched a nerve.
OP - you are going to have to go there next week and see if he turns up and what he has to say…
In fact have a word with him point out its your civil duty to call the police.
UK gov' figures.
Overall, an estimated 6,800 people were killed or injured when at least one driver was over the drink-drive limit.
One driver did all those people? Nuclear weapon level
Though obviously from those who seem to be quite enjoy the booming sound of their own sanctimony, you’d think those of us who take a less draconian and melodramatic view of things were suggesting making drink driving compulsory
Blimey binners, did you really accuse other people of being melodramatic and sanctimonious?
Blimey binners, did you really accuse other people of being melodramatic and sanctimonious?
I expect he'll reply after he's driven back from the pub.