[Closed] DPF issues... Talk to me

If you're going to be doing short commutes and school runs without a regular long run then just buy a petrol. If you get to do regular long runs then the DPF management will take care of itself and you need not worry.

How regular are we talking?

I would say every other week

DPFs can't actually fail, as such. They are just a filter. If your engine is producing a lot of smoke then the DPF will get clogged, and people seem to be calling that a DPF failure and replacing it, without fixing what was making the engine smoke in the first place.

But generally - they last well if looked after. Although I'm not sure about Ford, they seem to have a worse design that has a limited life.

As for doing long runs - it should tell you if it's been unable to regenerate the DPF on its own, and a light will come on. This must not be ignored - it'll tell you all about it in the manual. It won't be able to regenerate itself properly if you only do short trips, because it won't have time to complete the cycle. I think cycles require 20-minute drives on open roads, or thereabouts.

A long run will allow a passive regen -ie enough heat build up to do it by itself. If you only do short runs it will start to do active regens where the timing changes and more fuel is burnt to get the dpf temp up. This should be obvious as the throttle response may be sluggish and the vehicle make a slightly different sound. This is when you need to drive at 40ish or over for a steady 10-15mins without stopping.

The light comes on when you've failed to do all the above as the dpf has reached a pre-set capacity and definitely needs a regen.

edit this is on a vw. I imagine it would be similar on a ford.

I have a 2006 Focus with a DPF.The Eoyls fluid should be topped up at about 75k if I recall. It has a Ford service at 74k and they never mentioned it to me. It ran out at 76k and had to go in again to get the car out of limp mode, rest the error light and top it up, about £275 for a couple of litres of fluid!

The DPF failed shortly after that too! £1150 was the cheapest i child find for a Ford replacement. £750 for it to be removed and the ECU remapped.

I wouldn't buy another one.

aha - so not at all similar! It needs an additional fluid?
Ignore my post please... 🙄

A long run will allow a passive regen -ie enough heat build up to do it by itself. If you only do short runs it will start to do active regens where the timing changes and more fuel is burnt to get the dpf temp up. This should be obvious as the throttle response may be sluggish and the vehicle make a slightly different sound. This is when you need to drive at 40ish or over for a steady 10-15mins without stopping.

The light comes on when you've failed to do all the above as the dpf has reached a pre-set capacity and definitely needs a regen.

I've had a Golf GT TDI with DPF for about 9 months now, and have never noticed it doing anything differently, noise, performance or otherwise. I was mildly concerned I was going to have warning lights popping up constantly and what not, but it seems to just do its thing. Slightly concerned as it's done 65k miles, and according to some that's about the design life of the DPF...

njee20 - your driving style might might enough for passive only regens -so you'll never notice. I do lots of short runs, with the odd long one too, so I've noticed the active regen happening every 3ish weeks.

I think many dpfs go well over a forum-discussed 'design' life. Don't worry about it.

aha - so not at all similar! It needs an additional fluid?

The eyls fluid is a catalyst for the regen combustion. I'd guess the ECU would be cleaver enough to detect you are only doing low /medium speeds and the DPF isn't getting hot enough to fully burn the contaminants so squirts a bit of the eoyls fluid to help burn it off.

If doing long motorway driving I'd guess the DPF would get hot enough and the ECU would reduce the amount of Eoyls fluid used.

The fluid won't guaranty the DPF never fills up but it does help to prolong the life.

VWs don't use the fluid. That's the Ford design afaik, also used in some other engines.

Eoyls fluid is used by most PSA engines, which is why some fords have it and not others.

DPFs are usually fine as long as you're doing long runs. Actual life spans can vary greatly, but generally any that get used for regular long runs will easily go well past 100k.
We maintain some vans that reach 4-500k before DPFs become an issue.

The biggest issue is if the engine does develop a fault that causes excess soot to be produced, you'll never know about it until the DPF becomes fully loaded, as the DPF filters the soot so you never see it come out the exhaust.

DPFs can be cleaned, however I'm not entirely sure of the effectiveness as it's not an option we use at work. Most vehicles we experience DPF faults on are ones where downtime and reliability are far higher up the importance scale than cost. i.e. the £700 for another 200k+ trouble free use is better value than £100 for lesser mileage with a higher breakdown risk.

i had the same dilema when i bought the wife her c-max last summer...petrol or diesel?
i'd read about the DPF issues and got scared off by similar stories to Lazquot's....seeing as the car would be doing a lot of urban driving we bought the petrol version instead...(2010 1.6 zetec)

Frogrocket...in terms of an owners review...overall the car is very good to drive and doesnt feel like an MPV on the road,
but beware that the front A pillars can restrict your view of the road...something you'll just get used to...and although the boot is massive...the seats dont fold flat...(see pic)
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getting a bike in there can be a pain. with the front wheel off it will just about squeeze in diagonally so no room for another bike so both wheels have to come off

The 1.6 ford motors use the fluid based dpf, which have a more issues than the non fluid based 2.0 tdci lump.
I've got a 08 2.0 litre Mondeo which has now done 120k with no problems, hardly ever notice the dpf regening.

I know the vw group cars seem to suffer with a fair few dpf issues which after some research (mainly owners forums) put me of them. Saying that though I think all cars with dpf's are prone to problems if you do low mileage, short journeys.

Lazgoat - Member £750 for it to be removed and the ECU remapped.

Remember this is illegal now - [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter ]MOT & DPF rule[/url]

My father had one fail on his Lexus. He was quoted up to 2.5k to repair. The dpf was 1.5k and there were 2 sensors in the dpf housing that cost £500 each and if they could not get them out then the cost of replacing them would have to be added on. Cost him £2K.

The chap at the Lexus garage seemed to think that Toyota are going to stop producing diesels at some point because of the problems all of the emission restrictions cause them.

Mine is on 88,000, 2010 Mondeo. The DPF is giving a few issues, apparently they're a 100k miles service/replace item.

My local expert wants £430 to remove, have it ultrasonically cleaned and then replace. Should then last another 100k..

It's expensive I guess, but considering I've had it nearly 2 years and it's cost me only a few cheap services and some tyres, I'm not too unhappy. It's averaging 54mpg too, so a decent saving over petrol for the 45,000 I've now owned it for.

I know these figures as just today the car was in the garage for analysis and discussions.

What engine weeksy?

Remember this is illegal now - MOT & DPF rule

I think its been illegal for some time but they have clarified the MOT rules now so a visual check to ensure the DPF is still present is done.

This still won't fail a car that's had the contents of the DPF removed with the actual DPF kept as no emissions test is performed (only a smoke test on diesels).

As far as I can tell you risk a £1000 fine if you are caught driving a car with the DPF removed. That's actually cheaper than repairing the DPF properly for most people so I'm not sure how effective a deterrent it is. Many firms still offer DPF removal on their websites.

@gonzy rear seats do lift out seperatly though so as I have only one child we can usually dispense with 2 x back seats for long/camping type journeys. Only pain is storing the seats as they are relatively heavy and bulky.

molgrips - Member

What engine weeksy?

2.0 mate. Car is brilliant apart from this minor issue.

Every now and again I get 'engine malfuction' which came with the engine management light on last week. They diagnosed it as the DPF from their computers, cleared the faults, did a forced Regen and then sent me on my way to try it out. Couple of days later it's done the engine malfunction again twice, but not storing the codes in the ECU at the moment, so not 100% on what to do. But he still feels it will need a DFP replacing soonish.

The DPF replacement was about £560. The Cleaning was a chunk cheaper. You can get cheaper DPFs, £140-160 on Ebay, but he also rekons they're rubbish.

As above - your engine could be producing too much smoke, so the DPF is a symptom not a cause.

molgrips - Member

As above - your engine could be producing too much smoke, so the DPF is a symptom not a cause.

Visually it doesn't appear to be mate no, there's certainly nothing coming out the back even when booted.

Waiting now really for the light to return and then will drop over to the garage when it's on so I can get them to plug their gubbins in.

rear seats do lift out seperatly

Only pain is storing the seats as they are relatively heavy and bulky.

no space to store them in the house and wife would go ballistic if she saw me dismantling her car!!

oh how i wish i'd tried harder in convincing her to get a proper estate!!

Visually it doesn't appear to be mate no, there's certainly nothing coming out the back even when booted.

As someone else mentioned above - the unfortunate downside of a DPF is that because it filters the soot out, if your engine is producing more smoke than normal it doesn't get past the DPF and so the driver never actually 'sees' increased smoke.

Main culprit for increased smoke is the EGR valve stuck open - soot will then go up a lot. Does the car feel sluggish on pullaways or when driving at high load? usually a sign of an EGR issue.

EGR would probably throw a fault code though?

Could maybe be MAF issue?

You say driving long journeys as opposed to short ones for regens to occur passively. I used to have a 50 mile commute, where I sat in 6th gear at 1500rpm for over an hour each way.. That certainly wasn't enough as it regen'd every 300 miles, with out fail. Forscan, plugged into the OBD port confirmed this.
So, they want yo to drive long distance as higher revs. So much for 'reducing emmisions'.

So, they want yo to drive long distance as higher revs

Not quite. Motorway speeds will be enough, you presumably weren't going that fast. However, if your car is running for long enough then the active regen will work, this is normal and it's working.

The issue comes when you don't run it long enough for the active regen to complete - takes 20 mins or something.

As someone else mentioned above - the unfortunate downside of a DPF is that because it filters the soot out, if your engine is producing more smoke than normal it doesn't get past the DPF and so the driver never actually 'sees' increased smoke.

Main culprit for increased smoke is the EGR valve stuck open - soot will then go up a lot. Does the car feel sluggish on pullaways or when driving at high load? usually a sign of an EGR issue.

No mate, drives like a dream. Even when the light comes on it still doesn't go into limp home etc... drives nice.

Main culprit for increased smoke is the EGR valve stuck open - soot will then go up a lot. Does the car feel sluggish on pullaways or when driving at high load? usually a sign of an EGR issue.

Interesting. Having a really weird issue with the S Max where, sometimes, it will lose power and jump or judder under load. Backing off the throttle seems to help, but it just goes away and comes back.

Put it down to crappy supermarket fuels and used Super/Optimax/whatever and it seemed to improve, but not cure it. Definitely more prevalent when loaded, even down to filling the tank.
Maybe it is an EGR issue, is there anything I could do at home to check? No warning lights posted. (1.8 TDCi)

TBH unless you do significantly over the mileage v initial outlay cost why bother getting a complex diesel? To make a diesel work the repair cost+initial outlay has to outweigh massive miles difference.

Just the worry there alone puts me off. I was talking to a taxi driver the other day- he spends circa 1k every six months on repairs to his Mondeo diesel but then he does three times in the annual average mileage.

Diesels cost more to buy, fuel costs more and then when things go wrong.

Plus you've got the ****ers who blank off/cover the thing thats supposed to capture the cancerous fumes.

my second car was a 2000 audi 2.5 tdi quattro...between me and my brother we covered over 200k on it without any issues, on the original exhausts too...but then again i'm not sure if audis of that age ever had DPFs in them

Hora!! where ya been man?!

I had a 2005 C-Max 1.6TDCI & the engine management light came on after a long motorway journey back oop north from Somerset, had the fault code read, & the DPF fluid needed replenishing. That lightened my wallet by £200 at the Ford dealer...

Ref the pic above with the seats, just do what I did with mine, & that's just unclip the seats & lift them out. Plenty of room for bikes then.

I have a citreon with DPF and i smashed the internals out of the filter, got a new ECU map off a nice guy from the internets + extra power. Uploaded it using a £10 cable and jobs a good'un. Its been through 4 MOT's including the recent one's where they check the DPF and no problems.

TBH unless you do significantly over the mileage v initial outlay cost why bother getting a complex diesel?

There needn't be an initial outlay. If I go into a garage with £10k in my pocket I can come out with petrol or diesel. Petrol will be a bit newer, but I've not spent any more money.

Anyway I much prefer driving diesels compared with NA petrol.

Yeah, me too- I'm used to v-twin motorbikes, I love the lazy waft of a big diesel. You can get the same from petrol of course, but not at 60mpg.

But then, mine never had a DPF.

Next time I shop for cars I'll make sure I test drive a TFSI. Similar torque low down, and potential for similar CO2 if not MPG.

I had a 54 plate 2.0tdci c max and that had the fluid stuff for the dpf.

Worst car I ever had.

All the talk about short journeys ruining your dpf.... I was doing 25k a year in mine down the motorway everyday and I still had EGR and DPF issues.

I now drive an smax petrol.

All the talk about short journeys ruining your dpf.... I was doing 25k a year in mine down the motorway everyday and I still had EGR and DPF issues.

That's cos you had some other engine fault.

Erm no, I had a blocked DPf and the fluid ran out.

EGR didnt help things either.

The fluid ran out.. so the car wasn't maintained properly. Not necessarily your fault of course since for some insane reason Ford don't like telling people that their cars need fluid.

But like I keep saying - your DPF can get blocked BECAUSE of some other engine fault causing smoke. This is not a DPF problem it's an engine problem!

Weeksy, the DPF differential pressure sensor pipes and the sensor are known trouble spots on mondeos. The pipes burst near the sensor, but the sensor itself apparently fail often. Had to diagnose my bosses last month, and the dealer parts guys knew exactly what was needed, which is sign it's a common fault.

Brassneck, that sounds like a known injector issue, which Ford issued a PCM update to fix. Can't remember the exact details, but it was something to do with injectors being out of tolerance in relation to their correction code, which they fixed in software.

As for the Eolys fluid, it's actually a fuel additive. Everytime you open the filler cap, it triggers a doping routine and pumps some into the fuel tank. The theory behind it is it helps reduce the temperature required to carry out an effective regen.

And regards those going on about active/passive regens, there's no difference. All regens involve additional fuel passing through the exhaust system which hits the catalyst raising the temperature above 600degC (700-800 is not uncommon during regen) before the gases pass through the DPF burning of the accumalated soot in the process.
High engine load or speed isn't usually needed, just revs maintained above 1500rpm to ensure there's enough flow through the exhaust.

Some vehicles will flash a light to let you know a regen is happening, some won't, some will flash a light to let you know a regen is needed and to go for a long drive, some you'll never notice a regen is happening, while some you may notice a bit hesitation and/or some smoke from the exhaust.

As for how often a regen occurs, the engine management monitors various sensors, and using some black magic calculates the soot load, and then triggers a regen when suitable criteria are met.

My Fiesta went into Regen in the middle of a lesson and my Student thought she had broke the car there was that much smoke coming out of it.

I told her she had 😆

^^^^^ You are a very bad person. 😆