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I have wanted one for a few years now, and am now looking at them quite seriously. Something that confounds me, though, is how Decathlon can offer a Quechua down jacket with very similar features to, say, RAB, or another expensive brand, but only charge £39.99.
I was assuming I would pay something closer to £200.
I would be wearing it for general winter use, hill walking, and periodic use when commuting by bike. I want it to provide decent enough warmth that I don't have to buy an additional jacket when I go to visit my son in Montreal, and I want it to last a good few years.
Does anyone on here have one of their own? Any thoughts on a jacket I should be looking for? Any idea if the Quechua is rubbish or not?
Depends how posh the duck feathers are innit.
Regular mallard or lesser spotted winker?
if memory serves the Decathlon had arms filled with something other than down.
and obviously you're not paying for branding etc.
Decathlon stuff is good. It works, so why pay silly money ? TBF I'd prefer technical clothing.
the decathlon down has regular synthetic arms,
i do much prefer my rab microlight, better fit, better material, lighter, better colour, dwr seems to work better
but that said the decathlon is equally as warm and cost me £22..
shame you didnt ask last week £112 @ go outdoors , ld mountain centre (newcastle based) are £120 at the moment i think
The fill power of the Decathlon one is a lot lower than Rab so won't be as warm 540 vs 750 but possibly just as heavy/bulky.
While I love Decathlon gear as I prefer my money in my bank account, I do own a few Rab items as they are just superb. Light, packable, very warm/windproof etc and I wouldn't be without them.
I have wanted one for a few years now, and am now looking at them quite seriously. Something that confounds me, though, is how Decathlon can offer a Quechua down jacket with very similar features to, say, RAB, or another expensive brand, but only charge £39.99.
You're paying for a bunch of stuff. The Rab or similar jacket will have higher fill power down, probably goose rather than duck, which will give it a better warmth to weight/pack size ratio. The Rab jacket will have lighter, possibly more durable for weight, fabrics, some of them will be water resistant - eg: Pertex Endurance - you can reasonably expect better quality zips, hood stiffeners (where fitted), manufacturing standards etc.
You should also be able to rely on a specialist brand to use ethically-sourced down from birds that have been properly kept and not live plucked. Overall you'll get a lighter for its warmth, better made jacket from a brand like Rab or ME or PHD.
Whether that matters to you in the way you're going to use the jacket is down to you really. Really light, high quality down costs big bucks, ditto super lightweight fabrics, but it's arguably only worth spending that premium if the benefits matter to you. It's an easy decision to make if you're climbing Everest or bikepacking round the world, less for more general use.
I have no idea how the Quechua insulated stuff compares. Rab stuff is good quality. Ditto Mountain Equipment. Berghaus is actually producing really nice top-end down stuff at the moment as well using zoned fills and reflective stuff to retain heat better.
In the end it's like a lot of cheap v premium stuff. You pay a lot more for the quality kit. It will probably offer real performance advantages in some situations and you should get a lighter, smaller packing jacket for the same warmth or a warmer one for the same weight.
I'd go to a shop and have a look at stuff in the flesh. You'll get a better idea of the differences doing that than by comparing specs on the web and you'll get clearer idea of how warm something's likely to be. Whether it'll fit in your riding pack etc.
You can buy down jackets that weigh 200g but aren't very warm. Or down jackets that weigh a kilo and are like wearing an expedition sleeping bag. And conversely down jackets that weigh a kilo and are a lot less warm than you'd expect and lots of stuff in between.
Some of the time that'll matter, some of the time it won't.
If you're going to wear it predominantly in the UK, (as opposed to packing it for emergencies / as part of a sleep system, etc) Ill'd probably buy something other than down, such as primaloft gold.
Make sure the down is ethically sourced! 🙁
That’s great advice so far, thanks. In which case, can I ask about brands?
I have been so far focused on:
Rab, Mountain Hardware, Jack Wolfskin - but only because I have found those names on Sport Pursuit and one other site. Are the latter two decent as far as people know?
i take note of Mountain Equipment. Are there others I should be looking at?
PS And yes, I will be looking at ethically-sourced down. I don’t want to be complicit in animal torture.
For general use in the UK a good synthetic is a lot more forgiving should you get caught in some rain, which being the UK is a distinct possibility. It won't pack down as much but modern synthetics are getting closer.
I currently have a Rab Nebula which kept me warm during the cold weather at the beginning of the year and previously had a Rab synthetic belay jacket which took a lot of abuse climbing year round. Id probably only buy a down jacket if I was heading to some snowy peaks regularly.
If you really want a down jacket though alpkit make some very good ones which are usually a bit cheaper than the big brands and their down is ethically sourced.
After my own thread:
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/rab-jackets-for-standing-around-in-a-field/
... I bought the Quecha on the basis its for nothing more than standing around in a field in race gear pre/post race.
Now, obviously I haven't used it in anger buts its very light, packs down very small and seems to be of good quality. Having never had a down jacket before either, it does appear a bit "thin", but I can't comment on any lack of effectiveness until the weather gets colder.
But for my use, even if I have to stick another layer under I paid £30 with a discount for mine and I wouldn't pay any more to inevitably add mud, sweat gel and saliva stains all over it as I arrive across the finish line in a post race mess...
Rab, Mountain Hardware, Jack Wolfskin – but only because I have found those names on Sport Pursuit and one other site. Are the latter two decent as far as people know?
MHW are okay. Jack Wolfskin stuff tends to be overbuilt and a bit heavy in a traditional German way. Rab and Mountain Equipment are the two obvious UK mountain brands. The cut on ME stuff is a bit more fitted than Rab. They're both good at what they do. Ditto Berghaus, at least the more top-end stuff. Alpkit is a good call as well, great value for money, good kit. PHD make superb stuff, but their fit is a bit basic and they're more expensive again.
And as a few have said already, synthetic fills are arguably better suited to UK use where stuff gets wet. Down doesn't do well with being soaked and tends to lose its ability to plump up afterwards without specialist drying. The downside of synthetics like Primaloft is that they're bulkier and heavier than down with an equivalent insulation value.
Both types are mostly good for low level exertion and sitting around rather than active movement, at least active movement with any degree of exertion / enthusiasm... but that's another endless post :-/
it does appear a bit “thin”, but I can’t comment on any lack of effectiveness until the weather gets colder.
'Thin' isn't a good sign. Essentially all insulation is trapped air volume that's heated by your body. The thicker and more plumped up the filling, the warmer it's likely to be in very simple terms. I'll shut up now...
Don't bother with any lightweight Pertex outer stuff - it rips easier than tissue paper
‘Thin’ isn’t a good sign. Essentially all insulation is trapped air volume that’s heated by your body. The thicker and more plumped up the filling, the warmer it’s likely to be in very simple terms. I’ll shut up now…
Its 540 CUIN and 75/25 which although toward the lower end of the scale, isn't the lowest. Again though, my usage is different, I will already be sweating at 9000* degrees when I put mine on, not starting from 0 and hoping it warms me up.
The £50 quecha is 660 CUIN and 85/15 which would suggest its pretty decent.
*slight exaggeration
I've got a Rab Neutrino Down jacket and a Patagonia Das Parka (synthetic).
I mostly use the Das Parka as it's fr more practical for the UK.
I've used the Rab in Norway when I've been ice climbing and it was the dog's danglies to be honest.
I'm glad I've got both but if I had to pick one it would be the synthetic jacket.
HTH
Si
I’ve had virtually every brand going. The lightweight Decathlon was frighteningly good for the money, all the current Rab stuff is just plain sh1te ( the old Sheffield made stuff would last forever and was excellent), I’ve a couple of Alpkit lightweight and heavier coats which are good ( not as good as a few years ago though!) and a ME which slim fit but decent. I’d say ME is the only brand that have kept the quality and the prices are always good.
Cheaper down jackets use a mixture of down and feathers, whereas top-quality stuff is ethically-sourced, hydrophobic down. There's a big difference between a Canadian winter - -20C and dry cold, vs a typical UK winter - mild and moist. I have an arctic-grade (-40C jacket) and its too warm for doing anything but sitting or standing around even in extreme cold - not much use in the UK. Agree that a synthetic is better for most UK conditions as they work better when damp, easier to look after. Sportsshoes.com have some good deals on Montane and Mountain Hardware stuff in their sale.
I have wanted one for a few years now, and am now looking at them quite seriously. Something that confounds me, though, is how Decathlon can offer a Quechua down jacket with very similar features to, say, RAB, or another expensive brand, but only charge £39.99.
I was assuming I would pay something closer to £200.
I would be wearing it for general winter use, hill walking, and periodic use when commuting by bike. I want it to provide decent enough warmth that I don’t have to buy an additional jacket when I go to visit my son in Montreal, and I want it to last a good few years.
Does anyone on here have one of their own? Any thoughts on a jacket I should be looking for? Any idea if the Quechua is rubbish or not?
Not read any of the other replies. A £200 Rab will 'do' everything better than a £30 Quechua, but the Quechua will still be better value for most people. Only you can decide if the extra money is worth it. The Rab will be lighter and more packable for the same relative warmth, the cut will be much better, as will the hood. The water resistance on the Rab will likely be superior, and it will have water resistant down filling, which helps if you get caught out in a storm.
Obviously the lightweight micro down jackets (e.g. Mountain Hardware Ghost whisperer is 220g) aren't actually all that warm compared to a Rab Baltura (1200g), so you need to decide exactly what you are looking for. You probably need to decide if you need something seriously warm, or something a bit warm that is very light.
I've never worn down on a bike. Will be too hot generally, and too fragile, and a pain to clean. Insulated synthetic packable top is useful for stops though.
I’ve got a £30 Quetchua jacket from Decathlon, a £70 jacket from Uniqlo, a £200 jacket from Jottnar, and a NF Nuptse, which was roughly £250-ish twenty-odd years ago. The Decathlon jacket does a pretty good job for the money, but leaks bits of down constantly. The Uniqlo ultralight jackets don’t. Better quality jackets have a tighter weave outer, possibly with a coating to prevent down leakage. For general cool/cold weather, with a fleece underneath when it’s colder the Uniqlo is a good jacket for a reasonable price. Packs down into a fairly small bag.
https://www.uniqlo.com/uk/en/men/outerwear/ultra-light-down
Any thoughts on a jacket I should be looking for?
You need 2-3 different ones, no jacket that works on a bike is going to be any good in a Canadian winter.
i have a RAB that is now 22 years old and still going (I guess they don’t make them like that anymore) and a Canada goose jacket for sub zero standing around which would do for a Canadian winter. I need a thinner synthetic jacket for layering up when walking etc in the uk.
i wouldn’t contemplate wearing down on a bike, that’s just silly.
if I needed insulation on a bike then a synthetic snugpak or buffalo jacket maybe would suffice.
Jesus I,d hate to be a goose during this latest bubble coat trend. Quite a lot of retailers have ban goose down over the last few years. Big list on t net somewhere.
Does anyone seriously think there is a ethical way to get the down? The demand is colossal and I very much doubt even the highest welfare geese are tickled until they five up the soft stuff.
The big brands will go synthetic in a few years...all branded perfectly to make us believe it's better than there real stuff.
If you're looking at stuff on Sportpursuit, don't discount brands like Sweet Protection or Fjern, I have one of each of their jackets. They both have 'premium' synthetic down, Primaloft and another one made from recycled materials I can't remember the name of. Both keep me very warm. The SP one is longer in the body, great under a ski jacket.
I also have a North Face proper down jacket, has a waterproof outer fabric and looks like a regular parker, it really is the warmest thing I own. I bought it from a TNF outlet on black Friday, still cost me a silly amount of money but it's done it's job perfectly when needed.
My wife's Alpkit down coat is better designed and put together than my Rab one.
Lots of comments about rain, after being doubtful for many years we finally bought down jackets in the January sales and have been surprised at how useful they are.
Bought PHD years ago. It has been through some very wet cold and inclement weather. Survived conditions that aren't best suited to down without fault and all the time keeping me toasty. Buy cheap, buy twice.
I have PhD, decathlon,a mountain equipment down from Peter Hutchison days and a arcteryx down primaloft, the decathlon one gets used the most, simple warm and was cheap, arcteryx has not worked for me the PhD is great but I rarelly use it, my 20 year plus Mequip one is the warmest but rarely use them as I have moved to synthtics simply as warn, more robust and easier to care for .
https://www.edinburghbicycle.com/endura-flipjak-reversible-jacket.html
If it is your size then bargain. I appreciate not a down filling.
Alpkit are always worth a look. I ended up with a Montane one, I like the brand and they were on offer on sportshoes.com
There are some pretty good non down options. I wanted down for travelling. I've done a few camping trips at altitude and having a very warm coat that packs down is essential. For just standing around in fields at biking events etc. I've got a much cheaper synthetic one. It weighs more but is still warm - it can be washed and doesn't object to getting wet if there is a bit of rain.
Jesus I,d hate to be a goose during this latest bubble coat trend. Quite a lot of retailers have ban goose down over the last few years. Big list on t net somewhere.
Does anyone seriously think there is a ethical way to get the down? The demand is colossal and I very much doubt even the highest welfare geese are tickled until they five up the soft stuff.
The bigger context isn't insulated jackets, it's apparently that duvets have spread worldwide increasing the demand for down massively and inflating the price of it.
Ethical down is complicated because of the way it's produced and hinges on what you understand by 'ethical'. Fundamentally it's a by-product of birds produced for the food industry which are dead before they're plucked - live plucking is brutal and inhumane - and should be kept in good conditions.
Saying all that is quite simple, actually ensuring the down in your supply chain complies to those conditions is really difficult. Often down is produced by small farms or groups of farms, but it's very hard to verify that no down from those vetted producers gets into the supply chain.
If you're genuinely interested, check out the Mountain Equipment down codes web site:
There's a lot of 'down clothing used to be so much better' stuff going on. I have somewhere an original Rab down jacket from the 1990s, compared to modern stuff it's heavier, uses lower fill power down and is quite badly cut. The modern equivalent is lighter, warmer and better designed and fitted. Sure, it wasn't made in Sheffield and may have been filled in the Far East as well - some Rab stuff is made abroad then filled with down in the UK - but it's functionally better apart from potentially being less durable precisely because the fabrics are heavier and more basic.
Modern down-proof fabrics are actually tougher than they feel, but ultimately they're not designed for long-term durability, but that's common to most modern ultra-lightweight outdoors and bike kit. If you want a 300g down jacket that's also warm enough to be worth carrying in the first place, it's not going to be up to the rough and tumble of everyday active use at the same time.
You can chase all this down various rabbit-holes to your heart's content, but the whole nostalgic XYZ was so much better 30 years ago thing is often based on wishful thinking. Sure, some of it is more durable, but functionally not always the case. I'm not saying modern gear is perfect, but fabrics, technologies etc have all moved on significantly, rather like mountain bikes.
Whether most of is actually need those increases in outright performance over durability or every day functionality is something else again, but the idea that modern outdoor kit is somehow 'shite' and not as good as it used to be is a little simplistic imho and often mixed up with the outdated idea that far east manufacturing is somehow inferior.
OP There are other down jackets available at Decathlon in the Simond (mountaineering) range.
I have some of the waterproof Simond stuff for skiing and it seems well put together!
I've also got the Quecha jacket you are talking about. It's lasted a good few years so far and have found it to be warm enough for me.
Talking about Down Insulation, Sorry to hijack. I have an older North Face jacket that i never ever use. Is it possible to recycle it. Would any companies want the down that is inside??
https://www.re-down.com/re-down-who-we-are
But they don't recycle clothing - too much hassle relative to the amount of recovered compared to, say, bedding. I have vague memories of a company who would recycle your old down in a new garment though. Or maybe it was sleeping bags.
Mountain Equipment appears to have a new project to recycle down from bags, see bottom of this page link:
https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/rescue-or-replace-your-oldbag
You might be better off donating it to a homeless charity for use by someone who needs warm clothing?
I like my Quechua jacket. But on the other hand my Arcteryx one is warmer, lighter, packs smaller and fits better. Definitely a nicer thing but also definitely not 7 times better.
BWD, cheers
@badlywireddog has covered most of the points. One thing not mentioned so far is down/feather ratio. It's loosely related to the fill power: down is a much better insulator than feathers but ensuring that there are no or, more practically, few feathers in the mix isn't easy and getting a better ratio tends to cost more as the down can't be mechanically recovered from the dead birds, it has to be done by hand.
So what you find is that low fill powers (like 550) tend to have down/feather ratios like 80/20 and 85/15. When you get to the higher fill powers of 850 and above the ratio can be 95/5, I think 96/4 is the highest I've ever seen.
There's some practical results of this: firstly feathers add weight without adding a similar amount of insulation so the items that use low ratio fill are heavier for a given warmth; secondly when a garment "loses down" it's usually a feather poking its way out with the quill finding its way through the fabric - this is why cheaper down can feel "scratchy" it's the quills on the feathers pushing at the material; thirdly this increased feather count means the manufacturer has to use a heavier shell material to stop the feathers being lost.
I've a PHD down jacket, rated to 0C, it weighs 175g and packs to about the size of my fist. My wife has the Alpkit Filoment down jacket, it weighs 350g and though Alpkit don't give a rating it's probably good to 5C. We've both got the Alpkit Filo jackets which I reckon are good to -15C (we've used them in those temperatures). Below that I'd be heading back to PHD.
Just looked back at the OP's requirements - to use when commuting AND for (presumably winter) Montreal ??? If you've got a suitable jacket for the latter you'd be sweating in it within five minutes without moving in this country.
I missed the Montreal bit in the original post, so in reality that means two jackets, probably something like the Uniqlo Ultralight down parka or the Decathlon Quechua for here, and a heavier, better insulated jacket for over there. Pick up an older NF Nuptse and wear it over the Decathlon/Uniqlo, while in Montreal, then you’ve got a really warm jacket for very cold, windy days here, and the lighter jacket for cooler spring/autumn and milder winter days.
It might even me worth checking with your son, and seeing what sort of prices he can get good outerwear for over there, the CAD/GBP exchange rate is pretty good, a quality jacket would be about half what you’d pay for it here, so he might be able to find a cheap Canada Goose jacket for maybe a third of what it would cost here. It might even be worth investing in a new one, and leaving it there for visits. Worth thinking about.
A quick search shows Canada Goose jackets from their outlet here, and the sort of reduced prices, back in Canada, with an exchange of 2.1CAD to the £, you might make even better savings. It’s what I’d be looking at...
http://www.canadagoosejacket.me.uk