[Closed] Don't you just love Microsoft Windows

I've supported it since 3.1 and I've just retired. I won't miss it.

And yet it's the only OS that supports, well, everything. Stuff you can buy at the newsagents, on alibaba, generic crap off eBay, hardware from PC specialists. It can make everything work. Nothing else can do that - restrict your hardware support and peripheral management becomes easier (but more expensive). That error message is from something that I'll bet every other OS on this planet will struggle to support.

Will there be an error viewing the error details?

Started with Windows 3.11, Windows for Workgroups (at work) and '95 at home. Now on Windows 7 at home and happy never to move forward from here. It does all I need.

Not interested in all the process consuming and second guessing the latest versions seem intent on providing.

Most crashes I ever had was at work on Windows NT. Nightmare.

I'd agree that over all we've had it pretty easy over the years though. No need for a degree in computing to do some pretty amazing stuff that we take for granted.

Windows is annoying but overall it does a good job, windows 7 and 10 are both good.

And yet it’s the only OS that supports, well, everything

It's more that everyone supports windows and writes drivers for windows.

I've had the 'joys' of using Windows desktop OS since v1 (essentially a graphical shell over DOS), it's certainly improved in that time. I do think a lot of people forget just how broad an ecosystem it supports, from a vast range of hardware to a vast range of software. MacOS may be simpler and stuff generally just works but it's a far more closed ecosystem, great for some use cases but not for others (or your wallet). Linux, it's getting there but is still a long way off being a proper alternative for a home user that doesn't want to begin to understand what an OS does and just wants to use an app or browse the web without any issues.

As for security vulnerabilities, Windows stacks up well with alternatives and is more a victim of it's own success as vastly more effort is dedicated towards finding security holes in it than other OSes and it's basically impossible to make an OS that is open enough for lots of things to run on via APIs yet secure enough to prevent ways of exploiting it that hadn't even been thought of during development. Sure there's some "wtf?" moments when you wonder why such a method of attack was ever a possibility when some patches are released but there's other times when you realise just patching asap when something is exposed is the best you could hope for without a crystal ball.

Linux, it’s getting there

People have been saying this for 20 years. It was touted as a windows killer back then but If its not there after 20 years of development it never will be.

Windows has been very very good since XP, and is rightfully the dominant OS in the marketplace. It has more hardware, software and user freindliness than any other os.

everyone supports windows and writes drivers for windows

and when the drivers fail Microsoft gets the blame...

Windows has been very very good since XP, and is rightfully the dominant OS in the marketplace.

Yep, I really liked XP and think it's been a bit downhill since. Currently on 7 Professional and hoping never to have to upgrade to 10 as the Tile UI looks terrible and seems to be designed for 3 year olds who can only cope with clicking on pictures.

I too come from a 3.1 era.

Damn, it’s been a staple of every segment I’ve encountered over the years. I remember the lofty days of XP releases 🥳

Its all a bit samy now, where ever you go it’s there with its pretty landscapes..

Last but one employer tried going all Apple, we all got excited and felt trendy for about 3mths. The trial didn’t last long and subsequently reverted back to Windows.

I prefer IOS (OS) myself but that’s just home, I did try to bring it into work with me (there are quite a few users here) but the hassle it caused my organisation was too much for them for someone who mainly uses Excel/PPT/Visio/MSP and outlook..

Currently on 7 Professional and hoping never to have to upgrade to 10 as the Tile UI looks terrible

I think you're confusing it with Win8.

For the breadth of hardware support I generally use Linux or even MacOS as it tends to keep support for older hardware. I've had hardware that was suddenly no longer supported by the next iteration of Windows, e.g. one of the first USB scanners from Epson would no longer work with XP after W98 so I switched to Linux and used SANE for it and continued to use it until recently. I am hoping that Windows 10 puts paid to that, depending on the stability of the kernel APIs for device drivers. I'd imagine Microsoft would keep in touch with hardware vendors, else we'll have instances of "This hardware is supported in Windows 10 from release XXXX or until release YYYY." Which will be a nightmare.

For the breadth of hardware support I generally use Linux or even MacOS as it tends to keep support for older hardware.

LMAO. Win10 has amazing backwards compatibility with hardware. I have a friend who's an Apple fanboi and was really pissed because he bought a brand new Epson printer at Christmas only to find that there are no Mac OS drivers.

TBH I get along fine with Windows for work as I have done for years, but I have a crappy little notebook at home running Linux, I doubled the memory and shoved a small SSD in it, while it might just about support Win 7, it flies with a lightweight Linux install and provides all the functionality needed (Web browsing and open office)...

My Missus has an old HP laptop (possibly knocking on for a decade old now) with Vista installed that she want's to start using (barely been used since she got it).
I'm planning to install more memory and win 7, possibly an SSD. But I'm wondering if, given the age of the thing, I might just be chucking money away on something that will never quite run smoothly and it would probably work better with another Linux install.
Unfortunatly I don't know if she's be 'Linux compatible'...

Linux has been "ready" for years, it's users who haven't been. Sit someone down in front of a Linux machine with a Ubuntu/Kubuntu/KDE/Gnome desktop and once you get them past "I've got have MS Word to write a letter" they'll be fine.

TBF, Windows has been pretty solid for a decade or more but the last version I used to any great degree was Windows XP, even then the BSOD was pretty rare.

Linux, OSX and Windows are all pretty decent and for most users much of a muchness. Ideas pop up in one that the others "borrow". If I started an office job tomorrow and they said "Here's a ..... computer. Get to work" it would just be a case of learning the few differences from what I currently use. As above it's when you need specific hardware support that you get tied to a particular platform/OS - at my last job we had video playout cards that would only work under Windows for example.

I’m planning to install more memory and win 7, possibly an SSD.

If it'll run Vista, it should be fine with Win10. Win7 is no longer supported, but if you have a valid license key, you can use that to install Win10. Obvious thing to do is to download the Win10 installation files from MS and see what the compatibility wizard says. If the video and sound cards etc. are supported, then 4 GB RAM and an SSD and it should run Win10 ok.

Currently on 7 Professional and hoping never to have to upgrade

https://www.microsoft.com/en-IN/windowsforbusiness/end-of-windows-7-support

All good things must come to an end, even Windows 7. After January 14, 2020, Microsoft will no longer provide security updates or support for PCs running Windows 7. But you can keep the good times rolling by moving to Windows 10

The first MS OS I used was DOS 3.3. I used to run it under emulation (PC-Ditto) on an Atari ST, it was... not good.

Now on Windows 7 at home and happy never to move forward from here. It does all I need

Until January next year wen it falls out of support and you'll not see any more security updates for it, ever. Windows 7 was great, but it's a ten year old OS for crying out loud.

Most crashes I ever had was at work on Windows NT. Nightmare.

Yup. There's a very good reason for that, I'll go into a bit more detail if anyone cares sufficiently.

It’s more that everyone supports windows and writes drivers for windows.

True, but the majority of drivers on a given system will come from Microsoft. I rebuilt a W7 laptop with W10 at the weekend, all bar two drivers (SD card reader and fingerprint reader) came directly from the OS / Windows Update.

As for security vulnerabilities, Windows stacks up well with alternatives and is more a victim of it’s own success

There's a truth in this. Windows has been prone to malware since time immemorial simply because it's the largest installation base out there. You write a virus to harvest passwords or some such, you're going to want to target the biggest footprint.

Back in the pre-Vista days it's fair to say that Windows had more than its fair share of security issues (yes I'm looking at you, XP). For all that it was much maligned, Vista did a lot of things right and if you go back a few years the biggest vulnerability threat came from third-party software (though of course, MS still got the blame for it). In particular, out-of-date installations of Java and Flash Player were the biggest threat by a country mile for quite a long time.

Many high profile threats could have been completely mitigated if people patched their machines more regularly. MS have taken this decision out of users' hands to an extent with W10 and for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth this caused it is a Good Thing. The vulnerability exploited by the WannaCry outbreak a couple of years back which took out, amongst many other organisations, fully a third of the NHS had been patched by MS a month previously. See also: Sasser, Conficker, Code Red and many, many more.

Today though is where it gets interesting. Vendors have largely got their houses in order, helped in no small way by Windows 10 enforcing good coding practices more aggressively than previous incarnations. In 2018 the primary mode of infection - I forget the exact figure but it's something like 90-95% - for all initial malware infections is email. That is, either mails which convince people to run malware-infected attachments, or phishing emails which direct them to hostile web pages. For all of Microsoft's successes and failings, I expect it'll be quite challenging for them to issue a patch to satiate index fingers.

one of the first USB scanners from Epson would no longer work with XP after W98

To be fair, W98 and XP are wholly different operating systems. XP was built on Windows NT, Windows 98 was (at the risk of a gross oversimplification here) built on DOS. The Windows 9X family died (spectacularly and not before time) after Windows ME.

In the Windows 98 world there were two driver models, the then new and shiny WDM and the legacy VxD which actually predates Windows 3.1! For most practical purposes, USB was only supported properly for the first time under Windows 98* so the technology was in its infancy. WDM continued into Windows XP so a piece of hardware using WDM should have continued to work, whereas VxD drivers don't work on an NT-derived system. I'd guess then that your scanner driver was using a VxD driver, which was by then ten year old technology in Windows 98. I'd put the blame for your issue squarely with Epson rather than MS in this instance.

Plus, y'know, all this was 20 years ago. It seems somewhat unfair to be judging Windows 10 based on Windows 98, it's like saying you'd never drive a new Ford Mondeo because you once had a MkIII Escort that was a bit shit.

(* - this isn't technically true, there was limited support in later OEM versions of W95 but it was pretty shocking.)

It Creaks with Vista, I'll boot it up tonight and see what it's got, I vaguely remember sticking extra memory in it a couple of years ago but I can't remember how much...

If it’ll run Vista, it should be fine with Win10. Win7 is no longer supported, but if you have a valid license key, you can use that to install Win10

As in use the old vista product key for an update?
I think there's one of the old Windows stickers on the bottom, would that have a key valid for Win 10 update? I thought they'd stopped offering that...

As in use the old vista product key for an update?

No, I don't think it will work with a Vista key, only Win7 or Win8. Officially, the offer has ended. In reality, it still works fine according to multiple reliable sources.

And yet it’s the only OS that supports, well, everything. Stuff you can buy at the newsagents, on alibaba, generic crap off eBay, hardware from PC specialists.

I think your logic is back to front. Its not that the OS supports everything its that everything supports the OS. That said I can't recall the last time I had an issue connecting anything to a Mac, and it just working.

I just hate The way it needs constant attention. Computers should be like white goods or cars. We’d never tolerate the faff with our washing machines or cars that we do with Windows. Mac OS isn’t perfect but in my experience for what I use it for it’s a case of zero maintenance with Mac so that gets my vote. But win 10 on my work laptop is a retrograde step compared with 7. Just awful.

I don't understand why you think 10 is awful. I've run multiple installs of 7 and 10 and found both, in various configurations to be just fine. I avoided both vista and 8, as colleague's experience was less than wonderful.
If you want to be frustrated and compare something to white goods try my Tom Tom. It's 3 or 4 years old, I've used it maybe 10 times, something has changed with GPS satellites ( or something ), and the damn thing is effectively useless until you can do an update on it. As I found out in Germany last week. And the forum is full of 'run program as administrator', 'delete this cache', and all manner of other bullshine. It literally has one job to do...

I remember finding doshell.exe and thinking it was awesome.. Then someone showed me Norton Commander and I was blown away. I lost my mind when I was shown Windows 2, 3 and then 3.11 for workgroups! wow!

Windows 95 was pretty awesome for the first month, then you realised that plug and play was actually plug and pray, then go and change the I/O settings to get drivers to work, or make up your own driver consisting of old drivers and your own scripts. Concept was good, execution wasn't that great. < I think that pretty much sums up all Microsoft OS's!

Honestly, it has got better over the years!! 😉

No, I don’t think it will work with a Vista key, only Win7 or Win8. Officially, the offer has ended. In reality, it still works fine according to multiple reliable sources.

Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Vista was never eligible for the upgrade, either logically or physically (ie you cannot upgrade an existing Vista install directly to W10, you'd have to either install an intermediate OS or wipe it and start again (which is a wholly sensible thing to do anyway)).

I just hate The way it needs constant attention.

What constant attention? It needs a reboot once a month.

You cannot expect a computer to behave like white goods, if only because your average washing machine isn't connected to the Internet or susceptible to users receiving free samples of Russian anthrax washing powder through the post unsolicited. And if it were then you could expect to have to do regular updates just like a PC, I had to do a firmware upgrade on my lightbulbs a couple of months back.

"I don’t understand why you think 10 is awful"

It will install itself on a Win7 machine without asking for permission.

It will install an update, and then delete software you had bought and paid for that it doesn't like because that software is incompatible with the update.

It will decide to reboot when it wants to, if you were working on anything important tough luck.

It will run Windows Compatibility Telemetry in the background, causing everything to grind to a halt. Even if telemetry is supposedly disabled.

Updates will default to sending personal data to Microsoft.

It plays adverts in the Start menu.

Best phone OS IMHO where Windows 8/8.1 made absolute sense. Unfortunately 8/8.1 didn't translate to PC as well and people didn't move to the phone OS

Maybe people moaning about Windows should give Linux From Scratch a go, then they'd see 😉

I had a work laptop that had regular BSOD with Windows. So I installed Linux, and it also had regular crashes. Turned out it was a bad RAM slot. But I bet you lot would have been cursing at Microsoft all the same.

I've been using MacOS for a couple of years, it seems very crude to me. I like that it's Unix based but the UI is bobbins. MS have put far more thought into desktop usability than Apple have, which is surprising since iOS is good.

One example. If you want to search for a document, you press cmd + space and type in a keyword, it finds a list - great. But if you want to do something with one of the files, then you can't. You can only open it with the default app. On Windows you can right click on the found file and copy it, delete it, open it with a different app, whatever. On MacOS you have to scroll right down to the bottom of a list of random vaguely related crap before you find the 'show in finder' link. This doesn't open the finder, it shows a big button that you then have to click to open the finder, and you then can right click on the search results. Which (as I've just tried it) appear to be different to the ones you originally got.

And the navigation around files in the file open dialog is flippin rubbish. And where's the hibernate option? And the way it puts every menu bar at the top of the screen is ridiculous. You can open an app and the only evidence that anything has happened is if the menu bar has changed slightly. An app can be open with no windows open and all it does is change the menu bar. And the fact there are different hotkeys for flipping between windows of the same app and windows in different app is annoying as hell. If you are working on windows of the same app and a different app it's a right faff. Whilst we're on the subject of hotkeys, I get that they are using cmd instead of ctrl for copy, paste etc just to be different, whatever, but cmd is too close to the X, C and V keys so you have to do this awkward thing with your thumb instead of using your little finger which sits directly over ctrl.

It's clear MS (at long last) have properly thought through user workflow - e.g. the ribbon in the explorer - whereas Apple don't seem to have bothered.

It will decide to reboot when it wants to, if you were working on anything important tough luck.

Don't think it does this anymore?

It would be nice if they did a streamlined version without the double entry ways of changing things.

You get the control panel etc but you also get the hand holding menus more designed for tablets. Different styles going off too.

Too cluttered for me, but it is okay.

It will install itself on a Win7 machine without asking for permission.

No it won't.

It will install an update, and then delete software you had bought and paid for that it doesn’t like because that software is incompatible with the update.

I've never heard of any version of Windows spontaneously deleting third-party software ever, and I've been working with PCs in a professional capacity for ~30 years now.

[EDIT: I've half a memory that the process of upgrading from W7/W8.1 to W10 back when it was first released uninstalled some third party anti-virus software because it interfered with the installation process. Nothing to stop you reinstalling it afterwards, though.]

It will decide to reboot when it wants to, if you were working on anything important tough luck.

You can configure 'working hours' and in any case this only happens if you've been perpetually saying "no" to updates and other prompts.

This behaviour is set to change with the next W10 build, which in my personal opinion is a step backwards but MS have bowed to user pressure here.

It will run Windows Compatibility Telemetry in the background, causing everything to grind to a halt. Even if telemetry is supposedly disabled.

Far as I'm aware this was a rare issue in a preview build a couple of years ago.

Updates will default to sending personal data to Microsoft.

You're going to have to elaborate on what you mean here?

It plays adverts in the Start menu.

No it doesn't.

Not really sure why I'm bothering arguing this since all these issues are well documented, but top links out of Google for them...

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/windows-10-stealth-install/1fc664d7-1faa-4c07-8a8a-32121cfd6976

https://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-may-delete-your-programs-without-asking/

The Windows telemetry issue has pages and pages of documentation on Google, but try this one as an example. https://thewindowscentral.com/microsoft-compatibility-telemetry/

Updates sending data to Microsoft, again pages and pages on Google, but https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-sends-data-to-microsoft-despite-privacy-settings/

Adverts in the Start menu - https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-disable-windows-10-start-menu-ads/

While I get where you're coming from, those sources aren't exactly.... what's the word?

I've pretty much never had a problem with any os for years. I think some of you could be doing with improving your computer skills.

windows 10 is excellent, as is os x (well 10.13, can't upgrade to 14 but sure it's great.)

Windows 10 is fine, but if I was a general pc user, and not a gamer, I'd be on mint or Ubuntu.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/windows-10-stealth-install/1fc664d7-1faa-4c07-8a8a-32121cfd6976
/blockquote>

Three years ago.

https://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-may-delete-your-programs-without-asking/
/blockquote>

The upgrade process uninstalls incompatible programs which may interfere with the upgrade - wholly sensible, no, otherwise we'd all be citing articles claiming that the upgrade broke things - and you can reinstall them afterwards in any case, as I said.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood but this is a far cry from "deleting software you had bought" as you asserted.

Also, three years ago.

The Windows telemetry issue has pages and pages of documentation on Google, but try this one as an example. https://thewindowscentral.com/microsoft-compatibility-telemetry/

Four years ago.

Updates sending data to Microsoft, again pages and pages on Google, but https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-sends-data-to-microsoft-despite-privacy-settings/

Four years ago.

Adverts in the Start menu – https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-disable-windows-10-start-menu-ads/

Four years ago.

 

While I get where you’re coming from, those sources aren’t exactly…. what’s the word?

Current?

Windows 10 is great. The majority of people who moan that they have issues with Windows, still use Windows...???

I suspect the majority (or at least significant minority) that moan about windoze have been using a Mac for the last 10 years (and are smug about it) and think W10 is like 95 but with more telemetry (conveniently forgetting that OSX also more than likely has telemetry 😉 ).

I've only had one BSOD / Kernel Panic in the last decade that I can recall. That was OSX. I use Linux for everything at home, and in that time have used XP and 7 at work and also Solaris, VMS, SLES,...  I call that pretty damn reliable tbh.

Win2000 was dire, as was 95. Memory related BSODs galore on that, on a machine that never triggered a Linux panic. Clearly OS related not hardware.

There are addons you can run that do a decent job of deactivating or limiting the ET home phone telemetry on W10. Although I fix the problem by forgetting to boot Win10 for 6 months at a time.

The moaners about Windows don't seem to care that it's the MS and IBM business model that had led us to the point where anyone can buy a computer for £100. This is pretty egalitarian, it brings computing and internet access to the masses. If everything were run by Apple we'd still be spending six month's spare cash on a single computer to be shared by households if we're lucky, and they'd be sitting on top of an even bigger pile of money.

I fix the problem by forgetting to boot Win10 for 6 months at a time.

The only time my Win 10 system gets rebooted is after a software update. I can't recall the last time it completely crashed.

To be fair this wasn't really a rant or moan about Windows and I'm quite a fan of if it, especially Windows 10, but there are aspects of it that do still make me facepalm.

Microsoft has been guilty of some lazy programming in the past; I've used Outlook (so not exactly a Windows issue) since the '97 version, when it worked it worked well but periodically it simply wouldn't run. If you dug deep enough it turned out that there was corruption in the .pst file (which only Outlook used so shouldn't really be getting corrupted anyway) and Outlook therefore crashed (or simply quit). You had to run an obscure program tucked in the Office folder to repair the file and get things going again; a error message or auto-repair would have been nice.

I've had similar issues in Windows 7-10 where OneDrive, Skype, Windows Update, Windows Store (and various apps) and other sub-systems have simply stopped working; if you notice this there's usually a fix on the internet that involves downloading a Microsoft utility or .cab file to sort out the problems.

The Troubleshooter is great and attempts to bring monitoring and repair into Windows itself (although on the Windows Update front you still have to download a separate utility to disable individual updates that break things) as well as attempting to resolve issues rather that just give up with 'whoops something went wrong' type messages. I was just amused that the Troubleshooting Wizard itself ironically broke with an unexpected error rather than reporting that it couldn't fix the issue or suggesting other options.

As it turned out the error was a dodgy Wan Miniport driver (showing an exclamation mark in Device Manager & Devices and Printers); once uninstalled everything was fine.

There variety of refresh/repair/Windows Restore options in W10 are great and it's fantastic not to have to do complete re-installs when Windows breaks completely, oh and the (much rarer) Windows 10 BSOD now have a nice emoji face on them!

I suspect the majority (or at least significant minority) that moan about windoze have been using a Mac for the last 10 years

Yeah, that's pretty self-evident both from the comments made here and on similar threads in the past. Loads of folk saying things akin to "I haven't used Windows in 10 years but it's shit." Plenty of people use other systems and love them and that's great, but ragging on something based on an opinion you formed in the 90s is kinda daft.

Memory related BSODs galore on that, on a machine that never triggered a Linux panic. Clearly OS related not hardware.

How is a memory-related BSoD not hardware-related?

Older versions of Windows were indeed more prone to blue-screening. There's a number of reasons for this, not least of which was because device drivers had lower-level access to the hardware in the early years. NT drivers ran in ring 0, which led to hilarious situations like being able to crash the entire system by ejecting a floppy disk at the wrong moment. But that was in the 90s.

Vista was much maligned, and with good reason. The UX was... less than stellar. But architecturally it was the best thing MS had produced in years. It underpins everything we have today.

As a random example, look at historical system requirements. Windows 3.1 needed 2MB of RAM. Windows 9X required 8MB (W95) to 32MB (Me) - approximately a tenfold increase in, what, three years? XP wanted at least 128MB of RAM, another broadly tenfold increase. A few years later we had Vista which required 1GB-2GB, so we've gone from 2MB in 1992 to 2GB in 2006 - a jump by a factor of x1000 in 14 years. But this is where it gets interesting (if you're a monumental nerd like me anyway). Just look at the specs for Windows 10. It's the same as Vista. Windows' memory requirement broadly hasn't changed in well over a decade. I find that incredible. If post-Vista OS development had followed previous trends we'd be seeing systems needing a Terabyte of RAM by now.

(And for the benefit of fellow nerds, yes, I know that's a gross oversimplification.)

How is a memory-related BSoD not hardware-related?

/me shrugs

BSOD code was something to do with memory, usually occurring during boot or within 1st minute or so of use.

Linux would run absolutely fine. And that was back in the days when you'd have to do regular kernel recompilation to make the thing work, else it'd panic.

If Linux power use works, and Windoze barely got past a boot, then clearly windoze was the issue, not hardware, nor thermal, etc. My money would be on one of the drivers provided by either M$ or the Mobo MFr.

But that was so long ago that it is irrelevant.  The OSX panic tbf is hardly relevant now either, and that was within the last decade.

Microsoft has been guilty of some lazy programming in the past; I’ve used Outlook (so not exactly a Windows issue) since the ’97 version

And that's exactly my point. Sure they have, and so has pretty much every other software manufacturer on the planet. But that was 20 years ago.

.PST files have always been notoriously shit, they were a dirty hack in the first place to compensate for slow networks and limited server mailbox storage. It took until Office 2003 for them not to be limited to 2GB in size (and they often exploded messily if you exceeded that), and even then conversion from the 90s format was a manual process. They should have died out years ago, there's no requirement and indeed no place for them in a modern environment.

If Linux power use works, and Windoze barely got past a boot, then clearly windoze was the issue, not hardware, nor thermal, etc. My money would be on one of the drivers provided by either M$ or the Mobo MFr.

Sure, but then that's not a memory issue aside from the fact that data is held in memory (and where else would it be?) As you say it could well have been a (possibly third-party) driver issue or a bunch of other causes.

Windoze, wow, I've not heard that one before, I can barely contain my hysterics. Is that made by Micro$oft, the people who did Internet Exploder?

there are aspects of it that do still make me facepalm

Of course - I've had the same for all three OSes I've used recently. I do get the impression though that there's about 3x more actual software in a Windows installation than on a Mac one, so perhaps 3x more to go wrong.

Memory related BSODs galore on that, on a machine that never triggered a Linux panic. Clearly OS related not hardware.

It can be to do with memory usage. IIRC Ubuntu just used memory for what it needed, whereas W10 thinks it's pointless to have RAM sitting there idle so it fills it with cached stuff. If you have a lot of RAM and a fault in some of the higher addresses you could easily never touch that address with Linux but you could with Windows.

I'm using some legacy desktop software on this Mac currently, and it keeps freezing up which is to be expected. But when it freezes it takes the whole OS with it. I can't figure out why this happens but it's frigging annoying.

W10 might. W95/W2000 less so. I'd bet that Linux doing a kernel compilation was using way more RAM (possibly all of it, especially if it starts paging) than W95/W2k etc. does during boot.

All modern OS will use as much RAM as is available for buffers, cache etc. Linux does for sure, and has done so for decades (and hence Ubuntu will have done the same since Warty Warthog). RAM is there to be used, not to be available for use. That one I learned back in the late 90's when buying more RAM because it said 80% used, only to find out after doubling the RAM that it said 80% used 😉

Vista was much maligned, and with good reason. The UX was… less than stellar. But architecturally it was the best thing MS had produced in years. It underpins everything we have today.

It was maligned as a whole load of drivers weren't ready when it came out, which meant people updating and their printer or whatever not working. I don't recall any complaints about the UX particularly. (And FWIW I had a Vista machine at home and it was used daily for 4-5 years, without any major issues).

Anyway I like Windows, I find MacOS irritating. But that's clearly a personal opinion, rather than a scientific fact 🙂

People complained about Windows Me but I had it on a Dell laptop and it never crashed once so never understood what the fuss was about. I think I chose Win Me because the alternative cost quite a bit of money, can't really remember now.

At home I've been on a Mac that I bought myself for my last "significant" birthday for the last ten years. At work I've used a mixture of Linux (for development) and Windows (for admin) over a twenty year period. All three basically work.

As for software taking the whole OS - this site takes down the browser and the OS on my iPad. Who do I blame for that?

Upside down die chips

mogrim

It was maligned as a whole load of drivers weren’t ready when it came out, which meant people updating and their printer or whatever not working. I don’t recall any complaints about the UX particularly. (And FWIW I had a Vista machine at home and it was used daily for 4-5 years, without any major issues).

Also when first released it had some very visible, but not particularly serious problems like file deletion and copying taking an age. Many problems like this were hotfixed early on, but Vista was already tarnished by that point.

It was maligned as a whole load of drivers weren’t ready when it came out, which meant people updating and their printer or whatever not working. I don’t recall any complaints about the UX particularly.

You don't recall Vista being the Windows "Are You Sure?" Edition? UAC was a terrific idea, implemented terribly in Vista. It was almost universally hated and the intertubes were awash with guides explaining how to turn it off (which was really, really bad advice).

The driver issue was compounded by Vista being the first Windows version to popularise the 64-bit architecture on the desktop, fuelled in no small part by quarterwits telling people that if they had 4GB of RAM they had to move to x64 in order to "use all the memory." x64 was available in XP but it was Not Good™.

this site takes down the browser and the OS on my iPad. Who do I blame for that?

Safari, probably.

You don’t recall Vista being the Windows “Are You Sure?” Edition? UAC was a terrific idea, implemented terribly in Vista.

A fair point, I'd forgotten that. Still don't remember it being that bad on a day-to-day basis, though.

The moaners about Windows don’t seem to care that it’s the MS and IBM business model that had led us to the point where anyone can buy a computer for £100. This is pretty egalitarian, it brings computing and internet access to the masses. If everything were run by Apple we’d still be spending six month’s spare cash on a single computer to be shared by households if we’re lucky, and they’d be sitting on top of an even bigger pile of money

Not so sure about that. I remember IBM's business plan being a few large mainframes that we would lease time on (ie pay forever) and they were so unconvinced that personal computing was the way forward that they licensed the OS to Microsoft (second choice, they went to Intergalactic (yes, really) Digital Research first) even though they had their own OS (AIX, nothing wrong with that) and contracted out the processor to Intel in spite of having their own processors and production facilities. It was the lack of a business model that allowed other companies to step in and undercut IBM as both Intel and MS would sell to anyone (IBM hadn't bothered with an exclusivity clause as there was no future in desktop computing) and other processor vendors (NEC was one) began selling DOS compatible processors. IBM's failure to see desktop processing as the future one of the worst business decisions ever if not the worst.It allows anyone to build a PC so the market isn't controlled by any one company and competition has resulted in a very open market, not just for PCs but for self-builders. IBM don't even make PCs any more

In 1984 I was quite hapy using Fortran remotely on a mainframe then someone delivered a desktop with some rather large and genuinely floppy disks including MS-DOS 2.12 and Wordstar 2000. It lasted a couple of weeks before the cleaner moved it (no I hadn't parked the disc drive). Lesson learned it provided good service with HQ occasionally sending out new discs for us to try. I only recently threw out some of the old back-up floppy discs.

My next computer was bought in Interdiscount in Pau. It didn't work when I plugged it in so I opened it up, removed some glue from a connector and away it went, I briefly saw my first Windows before the first of many blue screens. I had a love hate relationship with that one, it had SAVE! SAVE! SAVE! scrawled on it with marker pen to remind the soon to be Madame E to do exactly that before it crashed - again.

Windows 95 and a 56kb modem gave access to the world wide web and random guessing of urls got me US pizza delivery firms and the first pornography. I wasn't impressed, it crashed more than the old one.

Windows 98 needed to be a bit more reliable as by this time my accountant wanted everything on discs, it was and I kept it for years. It could usually be fixed with a bit of help from those crazy people on user groups if you had access to another computer when it died.

Vista was shite, I hated it, the computer virus had come of age and it was a seive.

XP was inexplicably slow, the computer had all the right things to make it fast but it wasn't, I put up with it for longer than I should. Madame move to Windows 7 which was obviously a huge improvement but I stuck with XP till a cup of coffee killed it.

Windows 8 (then 8.1) I liked. I liked the tiles that others didn't, it booted quicker, it was reasonably stable, by 8.1 there were drivers for just about anything and everything, it's till used as a backup.

W10 and SSD. Remember that comparison on Windows with a car about how you wouldn't accept a car that took forever to turn on, required a pass word to get into, the car would randomly stop and require a restart... well this computer doesn't take any longer to get into and start than my Renault Zoé, and the car has failed to boot first go more often than this computer (though strangely only ever when Madame uses it). Well done Microsoft, it took a while but W10 is fit for purpose.

Oh, I thought IBM licensed the design to other companies but they didn't - it was reverse engineered and IBM weren't able to stop it. Interesting.

I see I've mixed up Vista and XP, it was XP that was a sieve and Vista inexplicably slow.

Vista was fine for me to be honest. It did need a decent machine to run well though, reletivley speaking. It was never an OS for the £300 laptops of the day that shipped with it.
It needed 4gb ram and it needed a fast duel, preferably quad core processor.

7 was better in many ways as the UI harked back to XP, and 10 would've been even better if it wasn't for all the 'ET phone home' crap you have to turn off, and re-inspect after every windows update as it can get mysteriously turned back on.

8 was garbage, I think we can all agree about that. It worked fine-ish but the user interface was a total car crash.

It doesn't help that vista, 7 and 8 were, and still now 10 get peddled out on under specced budget machines. Celeron or atom CPU with 2gb ram, 5200rpm hard drive.. recipe for angry customers. Of course it will run like crap, but it technically still 'works'.

It doesn't run like crap though. It does pretty well.