[Closed] Don't bother stretching

Depends what you are doing it for....

From the link with my own bold bit....

"The evidence from randomised studies suggests that muscle-stretching, whether conducted before, after, or before and after exercise, does not produce clinically important reductions in delayed-onset muscle soreness in healthy adults"

So it doesn't reduce DOMS, but I don't remember anyone ever saying it did, or that was why they were doing it...

in a sample size of one (ie me), if i don't stretch after running, i'm crippled the next day. If I do, I'm not. I've carried extensive research on this over the last 25 yrs. Can I write a paper now?

@stumpy01   , @jam bo says it does reduce DOMs. Who do I believe?

Interesting article that.
Compression garments (and kinesiology tape) are worn by loads of pro athletes, no doubt they are sponsored to wear it, but you have to wonder if there is any real benefit..

A 2016 research review found that while stretching could improve flexibility in the long term,, it reduced neither post-exercise muscle soreness nor injuries in runners.

Good job I don't run anywhere.

@stumpy01 , @jam bo says it does reduce DOMs. Who do I believe?

just to confuse you, i never bother stretching with cycling and don't suffer for it...

Compression garments (and kinesiology tape) are worn by loads of pro athletes, no doubt they are sponsored to wear it, but you have to wonder if there is any real benefit..

Depends if they have a hologram bracelet doesn't it...?

Scyernse innit...

DrP

Why would you care about DOMs though? It doesn't stop you training, perfectly safe to train with Doms. Also, Doms fades the more you train, so isn't a big issue for most people who train a lot.

Interesting, especially about the stretching, I still think it's useful for spotting injuries & relaxing/winding down - which is a real benefit.

Agree about sleep though, with 4 young children i can say nothing effects you like sleep deprivation!

Also I liked this bit. .

US scientists got around this by putting rabbits through simulated exercises. Those that then received 30 minutes of Swedish massage had less inflammation and improved muscle function, compared to those that did not.

rabbit masseuse is a great job title

I don't bother stretching when out on the bike and don't seem any worse off but if I don't before running I get real problems with my hip flexors and groin. Since my triathlete mate showed me some specific stretches I have much less trouble. Hydration seems to affect muscle soreness more though.

In nearly 30 years of mountain biking, I've never bothered with stretching. Around about Christmas time, I realised my left achilles tendon was badly swollen, having previously put the increasing soreness down to 'just being in my very late 40s'. Went to see the quack, he referred me to the physio who pretty much laughed when she saw the state I was in. Apparently, my calves and hams are so tight from lack of stretching that not only has it led to severe swelling in my achilles, but it's also making me flat footed!

I'm doing a lot more stretching now, and I think the swelling's starting to go down a bit in my achilles.

Compression garments (and kinesiology tape) are worn by loads of pro athletes, no doubt they are sponsored to wear it, but you have to wonder if there is any real benefit..

Peak Performance mag put athletes on tests in the lab trying out those nose strips that are supposed to help you breathe. It appears they didn’t help.
Is there anyone running at a high level and using them that isn’t sponsored?

I only stretch muscles where the tightness is giving me an issue or where I want more range of motion to do some movement. Consistent stretching is very effective at increasing range of movement (just ask any dancer of gymnast). I used to have very tight adductors, but I've fixed that through stretching them 3-4x a week every week for a few months.

Is compression stuff scyernse then? I use compression tights after a big ride, and then sleep in them that night. I think they help legs recover, but am I being placeboed?

rabbit masseuse is a great job title

I bet the chain-smoking beagles in the next cage are well jell.

For some reason I'm reminded of a radio comedy sketch from years ago set inside an animal testing laborotory

"we're testing this shampoo by squirting sulfuric acid in rabbits eyes"

"surely thats incredibly painful"

"only if you get it on your fingers"

those nose strips that are supposed to help you breathe

Well, they're not really for muscles 😉
I remember wearing one for a Polaris many years ago - one side peeled off as soon as I got a bit sweaty. Didn't really get any benefit except looking daft.

I never used to stretch until I got a couple of pulled muscle injuries, went to a sports massage person who had a go and commented on how knotted up my muscles were and guessed I didn’t stretch much and got me on a regime of stretching. It stopped any further injuries and going back to the sports massage person again saw an almost irradiation of any muscle knots. Result: no more injuries, less fatigue during exercise, faster recovery and just generally better flexibility al round that benefits me generally. But still get muscle soreness as that is nothing to do with stretching that’s just the natural process of breaking down muscle before it can rebuild itself which is the natural process of getting fitter. Just suck it up i’m Afraid. It does ease of with further exercise.

I use compression tights after a big ride, and then sleep in them that night. I think they help legs recover, but am I being placeboed?

From da article:
"I do recommend their use in the recovery period,” says Dr Shona Halson... “There is evidence of some small positive effects, dependent on the type of garment, the fit and the compression levels.”

I've recently discovered Athlete Performance (Muc-Off) Amino Acid balm and that stuff sure placeboed me after a day's rugby reffing.
Creams & balms strangely not mentioned in da article though.

I use compression tights after a big ride, and then sleep in them that night. I think they help legs recover, but am I being placeboed?

The article suggests that the evidence for using them during exercise is very thin but there is some evidence that they help with recovery.

Apparently, my calves and hams are so tight from lack of stretching that not only has it led to severe swelling in my achilles, but it’s also making me flat footed!

Ah yes, I had that too. In fairness, it's only taken 6 months of stretching every day to get “normal” movement back to it!
But, said stretching is not to alleviate DOMS but just to make sure my Achilles isn’t constantly knackered.

trying out those nose strips that are supposed to help you breathe

as an aside, the mother in law came to visit at the weekend. She slept on the sofa due to us redoing the upstairs.

Every night, she taped her own mouth shut so she didn't snore!  I was crying with laughter for about an hour afterwards

If only she had done it during the day too 🙂 🙂

howsyourdad1, yesterday 😆
[img] [/img]

howsyourdad1

@stumpy01 , @jam bo says it does reduce DOMs. Who do I believe?

Not really. He said it prevented him from being crippled the next day - not specifically crippled by DOMs.
It could be that stretching after running is just preventing his muscles from tightening up so he feels less 'stiff' or it could be from DOMS. Dunno.
It could be that the stretching routine just means that he ends up doing more of a controlled warm-down, rather than coming to a dead-stop so the lack of being 'crippled' is actually less to do with the stretching aspect & more to do with a more gradual muscle warm-down than would otherwise be experienced.

For me, if I don't do some gentle stretching after a run I definitely feel tight in my legs the next day - particularly my quads & muscles around my hips. I don't generally get DOMS unless i have run a fair amount further or faster than previously; perhaps i should try a bit harder.

Every night, she taped her own mouth shut so she didn’t snore!

I had a girlfriend who did this, she said to help with asthma. Now I'm skeptical... 😛

I never used to stretch or really worry about it until i started doing Taekwondo where i very quickly realised just how tight my hamstring and Achilles had got as i could nearly reach my ankles let alone my feet. As flexibility is very important in Taekwondo i started stretching every day and after a year not only could i reach me feet i am almost able to get my chest to my knees. Other areas have further work to get them where I want them though.
We always stretch when warming up at Taekwondo but sometimes miss the stretch at the end and I feel that when we don’t but its more stiffness rather than DOMS.

I use compression tights after a big ride, and then sleep in them that night. I think they help legs recover, but am I being placeboed?

The article suggests that the evidence for using them during exercise is very thin but there is some evidence that they help with recovery.

In my view they definitely do work.

Some years ago I did a week of an off-piste skiing course.

By Thursday my legs were knackered, even my knees ached walking up stairs. The most knackered they have ever been, by a long way.

Normally I get stronger during the week of skiing - my legs are quite strong - but the off-piste combined with my intermediate ability had worn me out. My legs had got progressively more tired as I went through the week.

I had bought some 2XU compression tights - the 'Elite' ones - but in a size too small so they were very tight and I looked like Max Wall.

I showered and then slept overnight in them.

The next day my legs were like 'Brand New' - no aches or anything.

That day we did our biggest tour - including two 40/50 minute treks with the skis on our packs (I'm not good enough for proper touring...) and then long descents through thick snow, and then a long skate out of a valley along a path to get to the minibus.

And my legs were still feeling great with no aches at the end.

I am a massive sceptic about stuff so hadn't expected much, and certanly not the complete recovery I got.

Maybe the small size helped - I wear medium when I run so as not to get arrested for indecency 🙂

@turnerguy  placebo effect?

The article does say that stretching improves long term flexibility, and that's true in my experience. I have experienced problems with my back muscles when training heavily, and stretching helped to treat and prevent this.

I read this at the weekend, and although there's some thought-provoking stuff in the article, it does rather seem that the Graun came up with the narrative fairly early on, and then wrote it (and cherry-picked data points) to support it.
The no stretching thing was called out in the comments below the line as being a pretty iffy conclusion

@turnerguy placebo effect?

unless it works like some sort of Speed/PCP drug that masked any pain from my muscles for the whole of the next day, I can't think so.

However I saw a documentary where an ex-clinical nurse with crippling arthritis was persuaded to come off her meds and onto a placebo, and the placebo kept her pain under control even though she knew it was a placebo. As soon as the placebo ran out her pain came back, and then she tried ot buy placebo, which was impossible even in the US.

But my legs were gone so far the previous night I actually thought that I would not be able to ski much of the next day, let alone two hikes and ski all the long day.

Is the point of the article that many confuse DOMS with muscle tightness?

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/stretch-before-exercising/

paton
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/stretch-before-exercising//blockquote >

Backs up the Op's link
"Does stretching reduce soreness?
There is no evidence that stretching helps to reduce or prevent a type of pain that can show up a day or two after exercising – also called delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS)."

 

Pandiculation beats stretching, it does depend on how you go about lengthening a particular muscle, as with most things it's never as simple as it first appears.

Not googling but I thought modern thinking pre exercise is to warm up and swing arms and legs about a bit, and some vague plyometrics no?

Stretching makes you better at stretching, basically, though I think I'd be even worse at surfing if I didn't do it. I'm pretty flexible in hamstring, hips and lower back stuff (hands flat on floor etc), which I got more into a few years ago when I briefly had a bad back, which seems to be warded off pretty effectively. Just part of pre bed routine. Annoys my wife, mind. I'm rubbish at shoulder stuff, which is where I'm suffering atm, which means I avoid stretching, vicious circle...

Pandiculation

Excellent word!