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This is sickening stuff, I find myself both agreeing with, and liking, Cummings.
I need to go outside and have a strong word with myself.
He’s toast.
Its been obvious from day one that little Matty was ultimately going to be the fall guy for all this. Its a testament to how dim he is that he was the only person who couldn't see it. Still probably doesn't
Also notice how Gove's name is completely absent. He's kept himself away from the whole shitshow and now his lieutenant is pressing the nuclear button. The grand Murdoch plan to have his lackey as PM is in full swing.
Not heard the 'pointing Spiderman meme' referenced in a HoC committee meeting before. 🙂
Cummings saying that on the 16th of March, no-one in the Cabinet Office had even set eyes on what passed for a pandemic plan.
The Civil Contingencies Secretariat completely collapsed under the pressure of this...they didn't have the staff...they didn't have the data.
Basically the left hand didn't know what the left hand was doing, let alone the right.
The image of Cummings wheeling a whiteboard into a meeting on March 16, Getting ICU numbers from a civil servant off scraps of paper, and explaining the concept of five-day doubling using his Iphone calculator... 🙁
The problem is that they’re all in it together. If Boris tries to throw Hancock under the bus what do you think Hancock will do? This is the sort of stuff that could bring down a whole government.
I hope you're right but just don't see it. The norms of decency and resignation have been well and truly shredded.
This is nuclear stuff, and I’m liking him more and more. Hancock in particular has been exposed as the charlatan we all know he is, someone promoted way above his ability and completely blagging it. He’s toast.
I don't disagree with you - it's fun watching him absolutely eviscerate the government.
However I think this will be forgotten about by the weekend.
Everyone has always expected Hancock to be the fall guy, yes? They'll find a way to get rid of him well before the next election, without him taking the top players with him. What's interesting is that Cummings sees no need to let the buck stop with Hancock even as he eviscerates him... he's doing his best to link it to others (most importantly Johnson). I don't think he'll manage it though... time will tell.
The grand Murdoch plan to have his lackey as PM is in full swing.
It wouldn't be the first time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000kxw1/the-rise-of-the-murdoch-dynasty
Cummings now says it would be better to have some sort of “dictator” in charge. If he had been prime minister, he would have put Mark Warner (his data scientist colleague) in charge of everything, giving him “kingly authority” over Whitehall. So, at the same time it's "crazy" to have so much power, he thinks it's better to have the ability to appoint some-one else with to have so much power...
Uh, huh....
He's now saying what @Tired was saying a year ago, as regards missing data and lags.
I don’t disagree with you – it’s fun watching him absolutely eviscerate the government.
But all it needs is for the Sun, Daily Mail and Telegraph to lead with some stuff about how great the vaccine rollout is going, we can soon go on summer holidays, Diana and the BBC (continued), Meghan (continued), possibly some blurb about immigrants and Taking Back Control and the plebs won't even realise there's been anything said by Cummings.
He strikes me as someone who was happy to go along with the whole shitshow while he was in the centre of it and only now has he come out to seek revenge (and let's face it, that's what this is).
Government composed of actual real flawed human beings dealing with an unprecedented challenge shocker.
This is great.
Might be time to rewatch 'The Thick Of It'.
If Cummings thinks Bozo is such a bad PM he might reflect on how he got elected. Anything to do with Brexit? Ring a bell anywhere, Dom?
The problem is that they’re all in it together. If Boris tries to throw Hancock under the bus what do you think Hancock will do? This is the sort of stuff that could bring down a whole government.
I find myself agreeing with daz a bit here. The thing is, even people on here were saying 12-13 months ago that Little Matty Handjob was being set up as the fall guy. Now in a non-dysfunctional government you might expect people lower down the food chain to resign to protect those above (in this case there is only one level above) or to protect the 'greater good' of the government ethos.
But this is a dysfunctional government. It is a government of over-promoted non-entities who only got the top jobs because of their allegiance to a fundamentally stupid overall project (through genuine belief - I.e. stupidity - or political opportunism, or both). They would all have known that a devious shit like Cummings would have been squirrelling away 'insurance' like crazy, so the obvious thing would be for the likes of Handjob to do some of the same.
With any luck this self-serving rabble will start to do the grown-ups' jobs for them and start stabbing each other in the back. With any luck it might go all the way to the top. If this sounds like the plot for a political satire, you would be absolutely right. But remember that satire is now effectively dead as this lot have rendered it redundant with their ridiculousness.
I really hope this triggers some critical mass and the whole thing comes tumbling down on Johnson. But maybe the Fail will go with Diana & Immigrants again and nothing will happen...
Might be time to rewatch ‘The Thick Of It’.
Watching that now tho looks like people who know what they're doing compared to this lot.
He strikes me as someone who was happy to go along with the whole shitshow while he was in the centre of it and only now has he come out to seek revenge (and let’s face it, that’s what this is).
Absolutely. He's nothing but a vindictive ex-lover. If he was female he'd be a Louise.
happy to go along with the whole shitshow
That's how government works. While on the inside, you can scream 'till you're blue in the face about doing things differently, but to the outside world you have to look to be "going along with" that which you've argued against internally. It's even worse for the proper civil servants, never mind the political appointments like Cummings and the ministers. You're only your own man once you leave.
All what we are hearing now is exactly why Labour and Starmer should have been opposing and challenging the government.
Labour gave them this free pass.
Oh Cummings seems to be saying all the things wrong with Govt are all the same things he's been writing blogs about for the last decade...What a surprising coincidence.
Tories trying to bring down Tories is an interesting situation.
Labour gave them this free pass.
Most of the points made by Cummings are a repeat of those made by Labour (if you ignore a few of the anti-lockdown fringe people voting against control measures) for the last year. Late into lockdown costs lives, cripples the NHS and hurts the economy. And we made that mistake three times. Labour supported the government when they (eventually) made the right moves, it's the timing that the government got so wrong and Labour have made that clear many times. Well, apart from a few backbenchers voting against lock downs because, well... "opposing not supporting" or something.
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1346845228385382401?s=20
mini side question; what is the Jeff Goldblum reference?
Tories trying to bring down Tories is an interesting situation.
He isnt a tory. He just allied himself with them since he thought they were the best way to achieve his goals. He would have probably equally allied himself with Labour, lib dems, greens or the monster raving loony party instead.
There are some old quotes from him where he is rather relaxed about what happens to the tories.
Government composed of
actual real flawed human beingsincompetent halfwits more concerned with bettering their bank balances than dealing with an unprecedented challenge made immeasurably worse by their obsession with cutting public services over the last decade, ignoring the findings of Exercise Cygnus and led by a man more concerned over his girlfriend's dog.
FIFY.
Tories trying to bring down Tories is an interesting situation.
He's always been utterly scathing of the Tory Party. Most of them absolutely loathe him. It was always a marriage of convenience. You could argue that he's tranformed the party from what it was into an English nationalist party that bears little resemblance to what it was before him and the vote leave mob arrived. He has actually successfully destroyed the Tory party in its previous guise. Looks like he's not too keen on the monster he's created in its place now either
Blimey, BBC News 24 bumping PMQs to go back to Cummings!
Only grabbing snapshots via BBC Live updates, but sounds fascinating
BBC News 24 bumping PMQs
Yeah, no one needs to hear about an "alpaca called Boris". Or listen to "stop looking backwards" when asked about any event that's ever happened under this PM... or "the people" being squeezed into every sentence from Johnson.
One tory tosser who was swanning off to Barnard Castle at the height of the pandemic trying to disgrace another tory tosser for not doing things "right" and inbetween, Kier Starmer trying to have a crack at Boris when he should be concentrating on sorting his own shambolic house out first. I'm totally bored of each side... they can all fk right off.
The scary thing about all of this is that pretty much everything he's said is of no real surprise to a lot of us. It's not like he's really said anything new or shocking, he's just confirming what we all thought anyway.
But all it needs is for the Sun, Daily Mail and Telegraph to lead with some stuff about how great the vaccine rollout is going, we can soon go on summer holidays, Diana and the BBC (continued), Meghan (continued), possibly some blurb about immigrants and Taking Back Control and the plebs won’t even realise there’s been anything said by Cummings.
The headlines tomorrow morning will dictate whether today has been a landmark point or a waste of time. Very hard to know which way it'll go as it ,as usual, relies on what is said or promised behind closed doors.
This is sickening stuff, I find myself both agreeing with, and liking, Cummings.
I need to go outside and have a strong word with myself.
He’s a shit but not a stupid shit,people forget that.
mini side question; what is the Jeff Goldblum reference?
Or listen to “stop looking backwards” when asked about any event that’s ever happened under this PM…
In the same line as saying he'd set up an independent inquiry to errr...look backwards at Covid handling. Boris is really not as clever as he thinks he is.
mini side question; what is the Jeff Goldblum reference?
It's a reference to the fact that in the film Independence Day, the Jeff Goldblum character was a specialist scientist working outside govt who explained the situation to overcome the cabinet's groupthink. In this scenario, Cummings = Goldblum
You could argue that he’s tranformed the party from what it was into an English nationalist party that bears little resemblance to what it was before him
Given the history he has had with many of the Tory's transformational and influential MPs; Duncan Smith, Gove, Johnson, I think that's a pretty spot on assessment.
Don't underrate the additional reference to the "Spiderman double standoff". Ministers standing around pointing at each other only able to say its your fault..you take charge...
I've realised whats so shocking about this...
When was the last time you saw any member of our political establishment actually answer any questions, candidly and directly?
Decades ago?
And actually apologising (not the usual sorry/not sorry) and admitting to his own mistakes, and it would appear that he's being entirely honest as well. Something we've definitely not seen for a long time
Matt Hancock is getting absolutely savaged here
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1397516380480606210?s=20
Matt Hancock is getting absolutely savaged here
Absolutely. Almost feel sorry for little Matty.
Only kidding. FINISH HIM!
And actually apologising (not the usual sorry/not sorry) and admitting to his own mistakes
Refreshing. Still a shit, mind you. But I'm a lot more impressed with him than I thought I would be.
Quote from the cabinet secretary according to Cummings, "The british state is not set up to deal with a secretary of state who routinely lies in cabinet". Ouch!
Hunt and Cummings having a big agree-off now. And I agree with them both (despite being as far from politically aligned from either/both of them as possible). I mean, how can you not agree with them if you take off your political spectacles (whether they are pro-Johnson or anti-Tory specs)?
When was the last time you saw any member of our political establishment actually answer any questions, candidly and directly?
Decades ago?
If ever ?,I think your right you never get this.
One tory tosser who was swanning off to Barnard Castle at the height of the pandemic trying to disgrace another tory tosser for not doing things “right” and inbetween, Kier Starmer trying to have a crack at Boris when he should be concentrating on sorting his own shambolic house out first. I’m totally bored of each side… they can all fk right off.
The political system in this country is completely broken, it has been for at least 30 years. FPTP, gerrymandered constituencies, the two-party system, an awful lot of the traditions and pomp behind it all...
And that's before you get onto things like expenses, lobbying, personal interests, peerages, favours, "jobs for the boys", "advisory positions" on multiple Executive Boards...
Surely Hancock can't survive this?
Cummings appears to speak with integrity and honesty, which is not something you'd expect from any of the mouthpieces in this government - and I say that as an ardent remainer and tory opposer. Having read through his blog posts his character is surprisingly not in alignment with his perceived media represented image.
"You are more frightened of giving me the power to stop the chaos than you are of the chaos"
The "chaos is fine, because then everyone looks to me as the person in charge" Johnson line defines his approach to being PM so damn well.
"...we sent people with Covid back to care homes"
Bloody hell, this just gets more brutal. 😳 Oh to be a fly on the wall of Matt Hancocks office.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1397524086012747776?s=20
PM not coming out well either.
Leaders need to be able to lead, to take counsel and make reasoned decisions.
Boris is coming out as an inept ditherer.
Possibly unsurprisingly.
One tory tosser who was swanning off to Barnard Castle at the height of the pandemic
He's not a Tory. He represents the Dominic Cummings Ego Party. The Tories, as he has said directly about the Brexiteers, were his 'useful idiots'. I guess their usefulness has now dropped off a bit...
The 'tosser' bit is true enough. Sitting there chatting about his arguments about the importance of test/trace/isolate while behaving like that in parallel.
Surely Hancock can’t survive this?
You'd hope not under normal circumstances, but Boris sacking him for this acknowledges that Dom is telling the truth about everything else. Hancock must survive to keep Boris going. I guess they'll ditch them both at a convenient moment.
"There was no border policy because the Prime Minister didn't want a border policy"
'After April he (the PM) was prioritising the economy'
Ooof
Goan yersef lass.
13 year old wains. 👍
Johnson saying that, even in hindsight, that we shouldn't have had the first lockdown, and resisting them in the autumn and winter on the back of that... scary stuff. He's a dangerous man.
She’s good
"The government rhetoric was we put a shield around people in career homes - that was complete nonsense. Quite the opposite of putting a shield around them, we sent people with Covid back to care homes with Covid."
Little Matty must be writing his resignation letter by now
Then again, nobody resigns any more, do they?
If Matty resigns now they can promote him in a month.
Then again, nobody resigns any more, do they?
Forget resigning he should be prosecuted for criminal negligence and corporate manslaughter.
If the health service buck stops with him, then yes, that should be the end case. Even if he resigns, the decision makers of that policy should be prosecuted. At the very least, this should provide people that have lost loved ones with a civil case against the government.
Forget resigning he should be prosecuted for criminal negligence and corporate manslaughter.
You could get half the Cabinet on that!
It's just highlighting the gross incompetence of this bunch of chancers but more importantly, DC was part of that bunch.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/25/dominic-cummings-held-to-account-secrets
PM not coming out well either.
Who knew.
PM not coming out
TBF, there's good evidence he likes the ladies.
Nothing's going to happen is it? Complete cascading CF at the heart of government exposed - what tragedy it is being lead by these abysmal incompetents - and its going to be written off as 'classic Dom'.
Tories +2 points gain in the polls by the end of the week.
Well, he’s said that his Rose Garden ‘explanation’ about all the Barnard Castle stuff was a terrible damaging mistake, and caused real trouble as regards the pandemic response. And, yes, said sorry. That word.
Surely Hancock can’t survive this?
At any other time, in any other Government heads would be rolling in every direction. Leaders have resigned for less, a lot less. The Last Labour government was dead on it's feet after the Credit Crunch, just because it was in charge when the US Sub-Prime market collapsed, something it's yet to recover from 14 years later.
130k British People died during a pandemic, we'll probably never know how many died needlessly because the Government, time and time again we unable or unwilling to accept inconvenient truths until it was too late, which only lead to even bigger, more stark problems they were even less able to accept.
The handling of this Pandemic, even by trying to set aside hindsight was terrible, Boris was too busy fighting the EU over Brexit and writing books to care about something that was too scary for him to accept.
Really, this should be the end for Boris and the rest of his cabinet, really the Party should wash their hands of him and even consider calling an early GE next years just to be free of the shame of it.
But it won't happen, because for some reason millions of people love him, I don't know why, but they're as incapable of criticism as Boris is of shame.
Even now, as Cummings spills his guts and sticks the knife into them all, it's the 5th most read story on the BBC, it seems more people care that Nick Knowles is going to be on DIY SOS.
I suspect in a few Boris, Boris will make some of his 'I'm the cool parent' announcements, they're probably put France and Spain on the green list and no one will care, they'll be too busy cheering about their summer hols.
Carrie Antionette isn't looking the best either
https://twitter.com/nohandsup/status/1397490692293898241?s=20
Having read through his blog posts his character is surprisingly not in alignment with his perceived media represented image.
Perhaps he retrospectively edited them so he could point to them later as proof of how he predicted that you’d think he was actually an ok kind of guy
Tories +2 points gain in the polls by the end of the week.
Don't think so, he's displaying a lot of candour...and said the Sorry word.
This is hilarious. Especially the independence day reference 😂
LOL that Durham trip nonsense completely undermines everything else he's said. What a risible heap of nonsense. He must think we are all complete idiots.
dudeofdoom
Full Member
Don’t think so, he’s displaying a lot of candour…and said the Sorry word.
True..... +5 points then 🙁
He must think we are all complete idiots.
If that is the 'angle' he is well qualified to make an assessment given his greatest political success (the 52% - I'm looking at you here).
Cummings appears to speak with integrity and honesty, which is not something you’d expect from any of the mouthpieces in this government – and I say that as an ardent remainer and tory opposer. Having read through his blog posts his character is surprisingly not in alignment with his perceived media represented image.
And yet, because its Cummings, even though he's confirming all the suspicions we've voiced about the governments handling of this, i can't bring myself to believe him.
i can’t bring myself to believe him.
It is tricky when dealing with a bunch of liars who will happily claim whatever is needed tohelp their cause to decide which one of them is telling the truth at any specific time so just be a case of balance of probabilities and using other evidence.
I was hoping he would actually produce some hard evidence rather than just words.
I was hoping he would actually produce some hard evidence rather than just words.
If I were a betting man I'd put money on the aforementioned hard evidence being produced by him about 15 seconds after the government says "it's all hearsay, you can't prove it"
He's got a bet on with someone to see how many times he can slip in fundamentally.
I was hoping he would actually produce some hard evidence rather than just words.
He's been asked several times to follow up with evidence, although he pushed back at handing over his mobile. He also said he'd requested access to his govt emails to support this, but that was rejected (although I assume the committee would be allowed to access those?)
He's already committed to providing all the evidence to back up everything he's said. has the counter-spin started yet?
He seems to be suggesting that he fears some kind of cover up regarding the public inquiry and thats why its been delayed
It is tricky when dealing with a bunch of liars who will happily claim whatever is needed tohelp their cause to decide which one of them is telling the truth at any specific time so just be a case of balance of probabilities and using other evidence.
I was hoping he would actually produce some hard evidence rather than just words.
Hmm yep, but what do you think the chances are of seeing Boris sat down for 6 hours discussing his role in the handling.
He seems to be suggesting that he fears some kind of cover up regarding the public inquiry and thats why its been delayed
Well duh thats the entire point of a public inquiry. It gives some time to people to forget and you also write the rules so you dont get blamed to badly.
Hmm yep, but what do you think the chances are of seeing Boris sat down for 6 hours discussing his role in the handling.
I think he could manage 6 hours without saying a single thing of substance, or answering a single question, pretty easily... "wiffle waffle, stop looking back, be more positive, in extremis, tried my best, what the people really want us to focus on, waff wiff".