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I don’t really have a feel for how important genetic tests are for dogs. What are the odds of one of these (expensive-sounding) diseases?
Looking at getting a dog. I’m generally bamboozled by the whole thing. I’m a people doctor with an interest in genetics and inbreeding is generally considered a bad thing. But in the dog world it’s seemingly a thing to be celebrated. Similarly, a genetic test to exclude diseases would be ridiculous in the human realm but seems to be commonly touted as a necessity in dog-land. Clearly, inbreeding means the likelihood of these weird diseases increases so perhaps it’s not unreasonable to do genetic screening. Is it just for the worried middle-class designer dog buyers*?
The situation is that we’ve found the ‘right’ dog locally and everything checks out except that no genetic tests have been done for the pups or mum. Dad is KC registered and has had some limited gene panel excluding a few common diseases. It’s a working cocker by the way.
So: how important is this?
Would you buy a dog without a genetic test certificate?
Anything else to consider (eg pet insurance?)
* Totally not me, honest!
Personally, a rescue cross without any testing every time. I'd also caution against working breeds as pets unless you are planning 9n high levels of engagement with them.
You want a dog? Get a dog. Dogs aren't people, you're overthinking it.
I'd be more concerned about it being a "working cocker." Are you going to work it physically and mentally? That's a lot to take on.
What they said ^
A working Cocker will need a couple of 1 hour walks per day to keep him/her happy.
I've had a few dogs and have never had any genetic testing - I've relied upon seeing the parents and assessing thier health :o)
I think I would get a mongrel having had a Springer who was lovely but eventually succumbed to essentially a common genetic defect.
We only considered pups with parents who'd had the five common DNA tests for the breed (lab). Autosomal recessive diseases mean just looking at parents is not enough as two carriers could produce affected pups. No good reason for breeders not to have the tests imo.
We also got a working breed so complete opposite of advice upthread 🙂
Wow, this is a whole new level of STW whathe****ery
Just get the dog if it feels right, but....
Personally, I'd get a rescue over a bred dog, as there are so many that need a good home
Dogs are ace - be an ace human for your pooch and don't over think it
We’ve always had what may be called “mongrels”, some rescue dogs, including Lola, rescued from a cage on a traveller site after having pups far too young and killing all the chickens she was shut in with. She had to have a psychological assessment before we could have her (not sure how you do that with a dog). The first day with us she settled in a chair on the patio watching me mend bikes! She likes chocolate (we don’t give it her) and children and very friendly so despite being used for breeding someone looked after her. She’s a little joy but will kill a rodent before you’ve noticed it!
And.. I don’t think that most dog breeders have the animals welfare at the forefront of their minds, just money, go rescue, go mongrel!
I've got a collie from working stock on both sides no tests and no worries. I work in the outdoors and only just manage to keep up with entertaining him, so assume many folk getting a working dog are unrealistic.
Interesting. Parents in their 70s decides to get a working cocker. Whilst he gets taken out twice a day he does seem a bit bored and neurotic. Loves it when we go round with our mutt. Having said that he's fit as a fiddle.
We got a rescue dog, originally from Romania. Take that Brexit! However has been diagnosed with hip dysplasia at 12 months old. So that's 6k per hip to fix. Insurance will cover 4k per year, so that's still 2k a year we need to find. Mongerels are not always cheaper.
Edit: So whilst joking about taking him to the glue factory he's dearly loved. In essence stuff the genetics and go on gut feel.
Screening parents for recessive disorders that are known to affect a particular breed prior to going ahead and mating is standard.
The tests are not particularly expensive or difficult to do
Joint problems are screened for using x- rays under anaesthesia, again prior to mating, which is more expensive and more involved
You also have eye testing
So the bills do start to mount up if you want to do all you can to breed healthy animals
I'm not 100% on this but I don't think you usually get the pup tested, just the mum and dad. A breeder who had done no tests on mum and only a couple on dad would ring serious alarm bells for me. KC registering means nothing with regards to the pup's health btw.
Have a look here:
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/does-kennel-club-pedigree-dog-registration-indicate-that-the-dog-has-been-health-test.html
I'd look for another breeder if you want to go down that route. And I would insist on seeing the test results for all the common conditions cockers can suffer from. That way you get a better chance of finding a breeder who is breeding for the health of the breed and not in it for the money or "because my dog has such a lovely nature, I'm sure she'd produce lovely puppies". Champdogs is a recommended site.
I'd also consider a different breed for a first time dog owner. Don't know what your lifestyle is obviously and they're lovely dogs and may suit you but a working cocker is a crackers dog and has energy to burn and also needs its mind keeping busy. There's a person who breeds cockers where I live and hence loads of them about. Many of them are being over exercised when they are still growing and they will suffer in later life. It's easy done because they love being out in the woods, playing with other dogs, running around like crazy etc. Mine has had to put a couple in their place because they are relentless and they can be too much for other dogs. Not fair on either dog but the owners see it as a way of letting their dog burn off their energy.
Having said all that, rehome every time. And perhaps think of a slightly older dog because puppies are really hard work.
As for insurance, depends on your finances. Mine is covered for £10K a year. If you can afford to put that kind of sum away at the start of its life and keep topping up, then I'd do that. If not, PetPlan is often recommended. I'm with Waggel, no problems with the so far but no claims 🙂
We have two working cockers, Ebby and Quinn. My wife is a dog walker and dog trainer.
They both are out for at least three hours a day and the wife trains them to do agility,hoopers, and scent work most days. Even after all this they are still full of beans and mischief.
Great dogs, very affectionate and easy to train the simple stuff.
Never had any genetic testing stuff done, good pedigree is more important.
Best dog I ever was a jack russell/whippet/ thing. I miss Dexter.
Pedigree just means family tree - you won’t see recessive disorders coming simply by looking at a family tree that is not accompanied by appropriate genetic information
If you can look at a dog’s family tree and you know the different parents and grandparents were healthy then this is a good start. But if you are not into dogs then you are unlikely to have this knowledge
Personally wouldn’t have a dog for a working line unless I was able to give them the equivalent stimulation; how much fun for the dog if it’s made redundant as soon as it changes owners?
Then again, when we were looking (14 years ago now mind,) none of the working dog breeders round here would even let me know when they had a litter ready as the dog would have ‘only’ been at work with me all day on a 14acre paintball site, this wasn’t considered to be what the dogs were for. So I became the lucky owner of a Springer x Lab which was definitely not second best.
a genetic test to exclude diseases would be ridiculous in the human realm
There is an antenatal screening program in the UK for generic conditions. It allows parents to make informed decisions about seriously debilitating conditions.
https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/your-pregnancy-care/screening-for-downs-edwards-pataus-syndrome/
Regarding dogs though,I can see the case for 'forewarned is forearmed'. You can keep an eye out for symptoms i suppose. I would never personally buy from a breeder though, given the number of dogs in rescue centres.
We also got a working breed so complete opposite of advice upthread
TBF your one hasn't got the eating gene and demonstrates the OP's point on testing! 🙂
Thanks for all the responses so far. My wife has her heart set on a dog similar to ones she had as a kid so I think we are going down the breeder route. Further judgement not required, thanks!
Does anyone know if having a genetic ‘all clear’ reduces insurance premiums?
There is an antenatal screening program in the UK for generic conditions.
Sorry, you’re absolutely right. There are a few conditions where you can predict very specific (usually rare) diseases in high risk populations, but we’re a looong way off screening everyone. I can’t work out if doggy genetics are genuinely different enough from humans or just not subject to the same ethical issues.
I don't see any judgment on here. Just people putting forward dfferent options.
There are plenty of cockers that needed rehoming.
Have a look here:
https://spanielaid.co.uk/available-dogs-2/
If it's a puppy you're after, you might get one from Many Tears Rescue shelter in Wales.
Or Brittanys come up on this site. They are not cockers but similar.
https://sebpra.org/brittany/
It's your decision ultimately and if you want to go to a breeder, then just choose the best one you can, but you don't have to.
We got a working Small Munsterlander 12 years ago, no genetic testing, no health problems. We did go to a breeder with a great reputation, chose the pup and met 3 generations of the family (dog and human). They have a great farm in Bayern and before we picked her up we attended a family day. You haven't seen wild until you see 30 Munsterlander's (think GSP crossed with a working springer) released to play by their owners from sit position.
In short, If going pedigree check the breeders as much as the dog.
I should really check things before I post! Spaniel Aid looks more like they mostly have dogs for experienced owners. Plenty of cockers that need rehoming though but perhaps not from there.
Validated test schemes for known common problems in certain breeds of dog are worth considering. Beyond this there are various labs offering loads of genetic testing for weird and wonderful diseases many of which I’ve never heard of and certainly neither seen nor diagnosed. I am extremely skeptical that these are reliable, and to my knowledge the labs offering them are self-regulating, so the tests are not properly validated or peer reviewed.
Get a good honest Heinz 57 if you want to stay away from the vet!
We only considered pups with parents who’d had the five common DNA tests for the breed (lab). Autosomal recessive diseases
Don't buy in-bred dogs and you won't need to worry about genetic tests or recessive gene expression.