[Closed] Dog, children, dog owner, park.

Either report her or kick the dog until it keeps away.

Full disclosure: I have children and I don’t have a dog. And I’m a massive optimist.

This sounds like a thing you and the dog owner could bond over. She’s struggling with the dog. You’re struggling with the kids and the dog. Could you all try somehow to get the kids and dog to be super new friends?

Will take a massive amount of effort and more expert advise (which should be round here shortly)

Don’t kick the dog, it’s not at fault snd is a truly epic dick move. The owner is the issue here.

Edit - Goldfishes plan sounds great

Gokdfish's suggestion must already be the plot of a 16 episode Netflix series. Probably in Korean, set in Seoul.

tj - wrong way round; kick the owner and report the dog...

+1 kick the dog. It will learn faster than the owner.

I don't mean kick to death, or even to cause serious injury. But a boot in the chops will be understood.

You really are shit scared of dogs aren’t you tj?

told me her dog has as much right as my children to be off the lead in the park.

Pretty sure the law says otherwise.

Yeah I'm not sure this woman will want to come near me again, I was polite but she was upset, I was upset, my son was crying. Not a good combo.
I'm hindsight I should have used it as an opportunity for my son to try and be introduced to the dog, but my son was too upset by then.
I think the woman won't want to speak with me if we see each other again.
My son has been fine with dogs before and it's not ally my daughter who will avoid them at all costs.

Kick TJ then have a word with the owner.

No

I just want the smelly unpleasnt things to stay away from me. If the owner wont train it then you have to and the easiest way is by making it clear to the dog that coming up to you hurts.

Perfectly legal btw.

You are allowed to defend yourself from a dog. You do not know if the dog will bite

Kick TJ then have a word with the owner.

Im well trained🤣

Lols at Frank as well😎

I’m hindsight I should have used it as an opportunity for my son to try and be introduced to the dog, but my son was too upset by then.

I wouldn’t feel guilty about that, Yeah doesn’t really sound like this was a situation for your son to be making best friends with this dog. Sounds like you got out of the situation and showed quite rightly your disappointment to the owner. A dose of agression from yourself in the situation is understandable, I’d be the same.

I was initially disgusted by the comments
Suggesting boot->dog interface but there is a time and a place where your children need to be protected from a dog that might not be under control.

Still… is there a positive way forward. Owner is struggling with the dog, even if they don’t know it. Could they be befriended, play with the dog. It won’t be easy.

Kicking the dog will, in the long run, teach the dog to defend itself. That’s not a good outcome for anyone. If you honestly think kicking a boisterous lab or retriever is remotely sensible then I’ll get another warning if I continue typing my thoughts out!

The woman was in the wrong on all counts. The dog didn’t do anything wrong and doesn’t deserve to suffer from violence as a result.

You are allowed to defend yourself from a dog. You do not know if the dog will bite

Agree on the first but you can see danger from a mile away. What the OP describes is a million miles from that. I’m the proud owner of two small humans and wouldn’t think of kicking the dog as described in the OP. I’d be having polite yet firm words with the owner. Probably offer help with the dog too.

She is very much the wrong side of this.

In public places, you must keep your dog 'under control'. Generally, this means close to you and ideally on a lead. If they're not on a lead, they need to be under control in another way, such as paying attention to your voice commands.

It’s a criminal offence to allow your dog to be ‘dangerously out of control’ – this counts in both public and private areas (such as inside someone's home). This could be anything from your dog chasing a person or another animal to physically harming them. It can also be if someone feels at risk of being injured by your dog. Either the owner or the person in charge of the dog can be charged. If this happens, you may have to pay a fine, compensation and costs. If your dog hurts a person, unfortunately they can be seized by police and may even be humanely destroyed.

 

God love you teej, but your anti dog extremism is hilarious. What you suggest is absolutely legal, but not particularly nice, and certainly (in that situation) overkill.

FWIW, OP handled it pretty well. Owner should have been more on the ball, and then more appreciative of her responsibilities as a dog owner, and was certainly wrong in her exertion of equal dog/child rights. In fact, that’s hilarious too.

And might end up with you being on the receiving end yourself.

Unless you only boot labs owned by women...

God love you teej, but your anti dog extremism is hilarious. What you suggest is absolutely legal, but not particularly nice, and certainly (in that situation) overkill.

 

Kick a dog that's friendly then you've a pissed off dog.

And potentially a owner who'd kick you in the chops.

However Tj is right as always🤪

You're best stopping and just showing your not that interesting and or nice.

As a toddler, my daughter was knocked over by a dog. If there are small children about, my dog stays on a lead.

Hopefully the lady will have a think about what happened and be a bit more considerate in future.

No the dog shouldn't run up to your kid and should be under control. 100% agree.

However (and almost certain this will lead to accusation of victim blaming or similar)

Like it or not not all dogs are well behaved, and so knowing how to act around an excitable or curious dog to stand the chance of de-escalating that situation is worthwhile talking to your kids about. Dogs love a game of chase so if you run away you're joining in. Stand still, turn your back, fold your arms and ignore it. It sends the not interested message and enables the owner to become the most interesting thing in the park again.

Kicking out risks getting bitten, risks the dog turning from over-excited to aggressive, and longer term might train it to avoid humans, but might also train it that they hurt them and the best way to deal with that is by getting your retaliation in first.

That^

I take my dog to a local park and there are sometimes people there but it's mostly quiet.
We were there one day, she was pottering about and all of a sudden a group of young children and adults came into the park and the young kids started rolling down the hill. It was the Easter holidays.
Doggo got excited and ran over to the little girl, seven-ish.
She jumped up and was a bit scared.
Dad immediately called out:"Stand still, put your arms by your side" which she did. Doggo then went over to the Dad who gave her a fuss. This took seconds, all the while I was making my way over to get doggo and put her on a lead. I apologised and we went on our way.

Obviously, I should have been a bit more on the ball and noticed the people quicker but things happen. I thought it was a great response by the dad. Maybe try that?

As for kicking an exited dog, it's really not a good idea and it's not at all fair.
In the OP's example, yep, woman was totally in the wrong.

Pretty sure the law says otherwise.

This is the bottom line.

I like the idea of trying to get the dog and lad to bond, but owners need to u derstand their legal and moral responsibilities.

And can we stop with baiting TJ. He likes it 🤣

Is there a working kill file for Safari? Asking for a friend...

People who just let their dog off the lead and do naff all to control the bill my piss.

The owner is wrong in so many ways. Her dog does not have any right to be off the lead, whereas your family do have rights. She’s an idiot of the highest order, and I say this as a dog owner who is not particularly fond of children.

I’d say the law is quite clear here, but it isn’t. However the various grey areas are very much in your favour and out her in the wrong.

I would also say ignore any advice to kick the dog unless it is genuinely being aggressive - and even then it’s often unwise. It’s I’ll conceived at best. You would not be ‘teaching’ the dog anything other than humans can attack unpredictability. Doesn’t take a genius to see where that would lead.

Dog owner completely in the wrong

And dont train dogs to be fearful of people by kicking them

Take a sheep with you, and a gun.
When you see the dog, put down the sheep, shoot the dog, pick up the sheep.
Say to the owner it was worrying your sheep.
Walk away

Problem solved.

Owner needs to control her dog.

Kicking a dog will only teach not to trust people and could result in you being bit. Sounds to me like you handled it pretty well.

Does either the dog or the woman look like a Louise?

On all the football pitches near us, dog owners are asked to keep their animal off, as they foul the pitches where young children play.

Too many dog owners think they can just let their pet do what it likes on a green space. They don't understand that there are many people (not just children) who are scared of dogs, having had a bad experience with one.

That’s a grim situation. Dogs that aren’t under control shouldn’t be off lead.

For your son, do you have a friend or neighbour with a calm, well behaved dog that he could be introduced to? It’s not that he should like dogs, just maybe that it would nice for him to have a positive dog interaction?

Owner is a dick.
We have a young puppy and he won't be going off the lead until his recall and behaviour is good enough that he won't go near other people unless i let him.
Apart from our dog there is only one other dog in the planet i actually like, the rest are all smelly creatures that can stay the hell away from me. But the very least someone can do is train their dog to not jump at people

Dogs that aren’t under control shouldn’t be off lead. in a public place put the owner on breach of the Dangerous Dogs Act

Iirc

As a new dog owner recently, I've started actually paying attention to park dog politics. TBH the attitude of a handful of other dog owners is starting to annoy me - mainly because I think I will get tarred with the same brush.

95%* of people (in parks, near my house) seem to love dogs. In fact, most people are pleased that a puppy has come to say hello / are disappointed when I call her away. So that can lull you into a false sense that, as a dog owner, you can relax because the risk is low and you may well know that your dog won't bite. Unfortunately, small kids don't always know that and as TJ demonstrated nicely, some adults are weird about dogs, too ( 😛 ).

We taught our son from a young age to 'be a tree' around dogs he didn't know - it's very effective and probably worth teaching your kids.

Not that this exonerates the owners at all - in your case the owner sound like a clown.

We have a young puppy and he won’t be going off the lead until his recall and behaviour is good enough that he won’t go near other people unless i let him.

This is tricky because they need to learn to return to their owner at a young age, and depending on the breed if you leave it too late (3mo + ?) they might never have perfect recall. IME if you ask fellow dog owners, they can usually recommend some fields with robust fences that are good for training away from distracting problems like other dogs or small kids. That's what we did, anyway.

* Made up stat, obviously

Wahey!  The regular 'Dog' thread, just in time for the weekend! Its like Batman vs the Joker, the same story played out time after time, just with a different cast.

2 pages, 1 ban hammer.

Aye, my Grey has been attacked twice by off-lead dogs. She's only three, very gentle-natured, but excitable off-lead (sprints around like a loon) so she stays on lead at all times in public (we take her to some dog woodland near us for off lead zoomies).

Some dog owners are useless or incapable of understanding the need to manage their dog appropriately.

But worth teaching your little human some techniques for keeping safe because that's all that's in your control. Relying on others to keep your kid safe is optimistic.

Those that think otherwise I assume you don't teach your kids to cross the road safely and rely on drivers to do the right thing?

It's happened to me a few times where the owner has none or very little control over their dog.

My kids are bigger now and have both got better at being around dogs.

Try to introduce your kids to neighbours/friends/families dogs to try to help them to be around dogs better.

Sadly because stupid/entitled/ignorant dog owners are not going away any time soon.

Dogs that aren’t under control shouldn’t be off lead. in a public place put the owner on breach of the Dangerous Dogs Act

Not quite but close.

A dog out of control alone (for example, refusing to come back to it’s owner) is not a breach of the dangerous dogs act. It has to be both out of control, and causing reasonable apprehension that a person or persons will be injured for that.

The scenario OP described would fit, and of course the law is very much open to interpretation… but a dog which is misbehaving off lead and not causing concern is not breaking any law.

Before all the dog lovers chip in with

"this wouldn't happen with my dog, it must be the kids fault by exciting the dog"

Sobering reading.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dogs-killed-22-people-seven-22133952

We taught our son from a young age to ‘be a tree’ around dogs he didn’t know – it’s very effective and probably worth teaching your kids.

This is the advise that I followed. It did not work for me!
(Apologies if you’ve heard this before):
I was walking along the beach minding my own business. Dog owner about 100 m away from me, oblivious to their dog (large boxer type). The dog ran towards me. As it got closer, I stood still. It continued to approach me. I remained still, arms beside me. It came right up to me, opened its mouth and put my genitals in its mouth. I stood there frozen to the spot. It ran off! The owner remained oblivious.

I ****ing hate dogs and 98% of their owners.

It wouldn't, she's not off the lead near other people. 😉

Much easier to control her if people want to say hello, or if she's not interested ask people to leave her alone.

Not sure why many dog owners make life so hard for themselves.

Before all the dog lovers chip in with

“this wouldn’t happen with my dog..."

 

I'll side with the OP here!

Speaking as a dog owner if your dog isn't trained very well, it should be on a lead. Simple as that. Especially in a park or play area where it might jump on kids.

The owner needs a good slap.

Sobering reading.

There are 12.5 million dogs in the UK. 1700 children injured. Every one of course to be regretted and avoided, but even if that figure is 100x understated, and each incident was a different dog, that's 12.33 million dogs that didn't injure a child.

I remained still, arms beside me. It came right up to me, opened its mouth and put my genitals in its mouth.

I've been trying to train the wife to do that for 25 years. I've offered her biscuits, tried tickling her behind the ears, still hasn't sussed it.

Belly rubs mate, always works.

I’ve been trying to train the wife to do that for 25 years. I’ve offered her biscuits, tried tickling her behind the ears, still hasn’t sussed it.

 

The rights of people trump the rights of dogs. Next question?

We've done this to death previously. It's not about "oh, he won't bite." Maybe he won't, but perhaps I just don't want muddy paws on my new jeans; perhaps I'm extremely allergic; perhaps I'm phobic; perhaps I don't want covering in slobber; perhaps I have traumatised cats at home that will get stressed if I come home smelling of hound; perhaps I simply don't like dogs. None of this matters, the bottom line is that people shouldn't have to interact with other people's dogs if they don't want to because people are more important than dogs.

It is of course sensible for kids (and adults) to learn how to act around loose dogs. And for that matter, most other animals and unpredictable hazards they might encounter. Cows, horses, cyclists... But they shouldn't have to and to suggest it's all on them is victim-blaming.

For instance (amongst many, not singling this poster out):

Obviously, I should have been a bit more on the ball and noticed the people quicker but things happen. I thought it was a great response by the dad. Maybe try that?

Or, use a lead in a public place if you don't have full recall of your pet. Maybe try that?

There's no excuse for it, really. A friend of mine has a black lab. Lovely dog, I've been out on walks with them a few times. Rarely on a lead except when it's prescribed by the land owner / law (the dog, not me). My mate goes "Monty, sit!" from half a mile away and that dog's arse hits the ground fast enough to cause a dent.

Dog apologists are part of the problem. "Oh, he's only playing." Don't care. I love dogs, I interact with them daily when out walking and they brighten up my day. But a number of owners are self-entitled shits. If I ride into someone, is it then OK to argue "well, it's never done that before" and lecture them on how to behave around bicycles?

Indeed, I don't care if it's a golden retriver puppy or a Hyena, if it's untrained it should be on a short lead, and under control. End of story.

'Should' is all very well and good, but 'should' isn't reality. Teaching your kids how to be safe around a loose dog isn't 'victim-blaming' it's ****ing sensible and an attempt at protecting them.

Relying on people to do the right thing is a fool's errand.

Either report her or kick the dog until it keeps away.

Good god alive - that’s the most utterly bollocks thing I have seen you post. Yes, the owner of the dog was entirely in the wrong but - kick an animal that wasn’t actually being aggressive is sick. You should be ashamed at yourself for even suggesting such drivel.

"Should’ is all very well and good, but ‘should’ isn’t reality. Teaching your kids how to be safe around a loose dog isn’t ‘victim-blaming’ it’s **** sensible and an attempt at protecting them.

Relying on people to do the right thing is a fool’s errand."

+1, but blaming others is the STW way...

Sorry i thought it would be obvious i was being deliberatly provocative. I dont actually go atound kicking dogs.
.

I would actually be reporting a dog dangerously out of control as it is clearly . They only have to scate someone to be dangerously out of control.in the legak sense

The idea that we have to accept this from dogs is victim blaming. Standing still gets you bitten. Scaring the dog off works in my experience and a theat to the dog will soon get the owners attention

kick an animal that wasn’t actually being aggressive is sick

Ypu have no way of knowing if the dog will bite or not. The only sensible way to orotect youself is to assume it will. I have been bitten without warning or ant signs of agression.

Owner was in the wrong.

Our mutt stays on the lead in the park. Far too much interesting stuff going on and he'd steal someone's football, or picnic.

He goes off lead in the fields or woods.

As a kid at about 7 or 8 years old, I was chased by a dog. Ended up at the top of a climbing frame to get away from it. I was scared of dogs for a long time after that. It was only when we got a family dog that I chilled out around them.

Knowing what I know now, the dog just wanted to play. But at that age and the dog being the same size as me I was shit scared.

Been a while since we've seen the Edinburgh Defence.
😁

Love a dog thread!
Useful way of reminding you who all the forum members you're best off avoiding in life are once in a while. 👍
Don't need a reminder for all of them mind.

Bad Cougar. Down boy

"The rights of people trump the rights of dogs."

Considering what human beings have done and continue to do to other species, what they have done and continue to do the the planet on which we all live, as well as how some people behave, I genuinely struggle to see how anybody can reach that conclusion.

Edited to say: The post directly above has nothing to do with me by the way. I mean, it so beautifully illustrates my point, I worry some of you would think that I have a second account and had written it myself.

We need a law change that all dogs should be on a lead at all times unless in a designated off lead area. I then don't have to have dogs trying to attack my dogs, I don't have dogs running after me when I am riding and we don't have situations such as OP because it wouldn't be in designated areas.

I would say that of the many dogs I come across around 10% of the owners have any control over them when off lead. Some of them just zig zag around getting in my way while others chase me allow the gravel road, neither great.
If you haven't got complete control don't walk your dog off lead when other people are going about their business

I wouldn't necessarily be against that @kerley but wtf is going to police it?
Many people round here don't even put their dog on a lead when they are on the road. I had to stop my car yesterday as a dog was loose on the road. It then repeatedly ran up to the car - wanting to interact with my dog probably who was in the car - while the hapless owner tried calling it away to no avail.

To the op, you did nothing wrong. Entitled dog owners are a huge problem. Not sure what else you can do in that situation though. Longer term if you have friends or family with a friendly dog it might be worth getting your son a positive experience with a dog.

Calm down there aa! If we wanted reasoned and sensible comments we’d visit YouTube

Agree with aa that the op did nothing wrong but what they were doing was exciting to a dog. I think all you can be is to be aware and, if at all possible, tell the person what you are going to do before you start. Not always possible of course, especially not if the halfwit is on her phone while walking her dog.
In my instance, the people were tourists and came to a park they were unfamiliar with and let their kids start rolling down the hill shouting and laughing. They did nothing wrong but behaving in such an unusual way (to a dog) is going to get the majority of dogs excited.
I think everybody needs to be more aware and stop all this going on about the law and people's rights and so on. And I don't think anyone needs to suggest the best way to respond to a dog is to kick it ever again.

“The rights of people trump the rights of dogs.”

Considering what human beings have done and continue to do to other species, what they have done and continue to do the the planet on which we all live, as well as how some people behave, I genuinely struggle to see how anybody can reach that conclusion.

Because it's what the law says.

The law humans impose on the planet without consulting the other species that inhabit it?

The law humans impose on the planet without consulting the other species that inhabit it?

That's right.

Yeah, why is nobody asking the rabbits what they think.

Ypu have no way of knowing if the dog will bite or not. The only sensible way to orotect youself is to assume it will.

I agree that some dogs may bite, but the vast majority of them would not so lashing out at every dog that approaches you could be seen as pretty unreasonable behaviour. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that an owner of a dog that allows it to approach strangers is behaving unreasonably but reacting in the way you suggest is equally unreasonable.

In my instance, the people were tourists and came to a park they were unfamiliar with and let their kids start rolling down the hill shouting and laughing. They did nothing wrong but behaving in such an unusual way (to a dog) is going to get the majority of dogs excited.

If people doing fairly normal park activities, running, playing, shouting, generally larking is going to randomly send the majority of dogs out of control surely the logical control measure is for all dogs to be kept on a lead in parks?

I wouldn’t necessarily be against that @kerley but wtf is going to police it?

Especially as we already have laws for out of control dogs that isnt being effectively enforced.

Jondo
So l have wait to be bitten?

The reason the law is not enforced is because it relies on the public reporting the dog. The OP needs to report that dog.

Uncontrolled dogs off leads are a real problem, especially if the dog is the same size of you! OP I think you did the right thing. Let's hope the owner will keep her dog on a leash from now on.

So l have wait to be bitten?

No, but if I were you I'd be waiting to see if the dog was being aggressive rather than playful before lashing out at it as doing that is likely to result in you being bitten.

The reason the law is not enforced is because it relies on the public reporting the dog. The OP needs to report that dog.

Report a dog for playing? Give your head a shake.

The current law is for out of control dogs. A law stating that all dogs need to be on leads would have a better effect as people would know they should keep the dog on a lead and a lot of people would actually do that. People seeing the owner would also know that.
The people who ignore it can clearly be seen and it is very much more black and white than whether a dog is deemed out of control or not.

The reason the law is not enforced is because it relies on the public reporting the dog. The OP needs to report that dog

😂🤣😂
Christ almighty. You really do come across as exactly the sort of person who would benefit from having a dog.

Look out for the signs, TJ. They are pretty obvious to an adult. I'm not saying you should have to but it's sensible to do so.

As for the law, we are given example every single day of how useless our laws are. Perhaps human beings shouldn't have taken such a great big dump on the laws of nature.
And rabbits, there'll be none left soon so we don't have to concern ourselves with asking them.

My dog is on a lead most of the time but sometimes she goes off. It was an unusual situation. Like I say, it was the Easter holidays. But leads aren't the answer to everything. People drop leads, they get pulled out of their hands and leads snap.
But I'll keep my dog on a double lead, one in my hand, one tied round my waist when we are in the park if you like, if people would stop dropping rubbish in the park. Around that time i had to go round the park picking up pieces of hard boiled painted egg that people had been rolling down the hill so my dog didn't eat them and get sick.

Just for the record, i was bitten as a kid and had to go to hospital. I've been chased while riding my bike and my dogs has been attacked and bothered by off lead dogs belonging to the 'he just wants to play' brigade or 'he's just a puppy' brigade. I've learnt that you have to handle these situations the best way you can because other people are largely going to do what the hell they like because many people simply don't give a damn.

Wow. First response and it's the knuckle dragging moron approach :/

It's an interesting tactic, treat friendly interaction (yes I know it's unwanted) with violence, next time that interaction might not be so friendly as you've taught the dog that humans are dicks, or the dog owner is also a knuckle dragging moron and smacks you in the mouth and you can't really complain, as violence was your initial response, or the dog walkers bf/partner is a knuckle drag... you get the picture.

@peter1979

You'd have to check with your local council regarding the dogs on leads in parks, different rules for different councils. Whilst not an ideal response from the dog owner she did at least seem bothered about it and there's a chance to talk to her if there's a next time as she's wrong, most likely through what she's been told/assumed is acceptable rather than bothering to spend the time understanding her responsibilities.
I'm guessing you don't have dogs at home? do you have any friends/relatives/neighbours with (well behaved) dogs? maybe arrange for you and your kids to walk the dogs a few times so they both get used to being around dogs. My youngest was scared of dogs until his early teens, no specific incident they're just large with lots of teeth. I used to take him round to a friends house to play in the garden with his black labs, he's still wary of them now but that's no bad thing, I've taught both my kids to be far more wary of humans.
I don't think you could have handled it much better in the park tbh, from what you've written the dog saw you all playing and wanted to join in, the responsibility of the dog owner was to prevent that. Maybe ask your lad to run to you if it happens again, possibly some dog treats to hand as distraction (yes, I know you shouldn't need to ) which may also allow your kids to interact with the dog in a positive way, this might be easier, quicker and more rewarding for them than attempting to show the owner the error of their ways.

Wow. First response and it’s the knuckle dragging moron approach :/

Yeah, he has an alert set up... 😉

Teach your son to run off in a straight line. The dog owner will soon call the dog back if it gets out of sight. I do this on my bike if a dog starts chasing. Just ride/run off and don't look back. If it will stop at some point.

Look out for the signs, TJ. They are pretty obvious to an adult. I’m not saying you should have to but it’s sensible to do so.

Back to victim blaming

Last time i was bitten there were zero signs at all.

As someone thats reported a number of out of control dogs, i can confirm (I mean allege based on the conversations had when reporting) that it wasnt the reporting that was the problem. And the problen was on fact the report being a very long way down a list of other problems.

Edit, the two local officers have said just the same thing.