[Closed] Dog

Any dog in a public place should be muzzled and on a lead, simple as. That's the sensible response to the thousands of non-owner victims ending up in hospital each year.

My son has been trained to deal with dogs, me too as I had to visit up to 200 farms a year and as an unwelcome visitor sometimes had dogs set on me. However, dog psychology means a dog will often place a child lower in the pack than itself whereas a male adult can usually dominate a dog unless it's been trained to attack. Dogs bite kids, the only way to be certain a dog won't is to muzzle it.

Any dog in a public place should be caged and towed on a skateboard, simple as.

And as for the grasping scumbag of a mother... greedy little blackmailer.

i'm just back from work - update time, The dog has gone to dogs trust(where he came from) they have been told the full story as well as details of father passing and upheaval . They gladly took him and will send him for assessment and rehoming. The police have said no crime has been committed as the dog did not set out too bite and was just being a dog. It has been a terrible terrible 24 hours . We believe we have made the right decision and after looking into things the dog has had a few episode that we chose to ignore.
We are only glad that nobody got seriously hurt (the girl has a minor mark) My mother is 70 , my wifes pregnant and i work away .Thanks for the replies mostly positive Except the generalist? hmm ? hopefully the post can close thanks .

Why is it fine for a child to assume dogs are there to be petted? If my kids just randomly approached/stroked your kids would they react or think it was acceptable? I have to train my dog,you need to educate your child.

Trevron. I think you have done the right thing well done. If a dog of that size only left a minor mark it clearly didnt mean to cause harm just give a warning. Doesnt excuse it though and I hope the lttle girl recovers emotionally and physically.

me too as I had to visit up to 200 farms a year and as an unwelcome visitor sometimes had dogs set on me

These dogs that set on you what injuries did they cause?
STW home of the attacked and mauled. If its not a mastiff its a sheep dog.
I used to visit farms for a living and never got bitten or " set upon". FFS if you are set upon by a reasonably sized dog you will get seriously hurt I would think.

I'll be up front I hate dogs, and got bit in a similar instance when I was yonger(ultimately where my fear comes from.) went to clap a red setter and it took a chunk ot of my hand.

In this case it doesn't sound like the dog was being vicious, just startled and it was a natural reflex, rather than an attempt to case harm.

Sonds like the OP is doing the right thing taking the dog to people that will have experience and know how to proceed. I wouldn't put the dog down, but it should be monitored and kept away from children at a minimm imo.

The dog apologists on here must be having a laugh.
Why the **** should I have to teach a child how to behave around dogs. Dog owners need to be aware that they are responsible for the behaviour of their pets in public. If they cannot guarantee it then if it snaps, soft mouths, nips or whatever then don't take it out in public.

Why the **** should I have to teach a child how to behave around dogs

Er, the same way that you have to tell a child how to behave around ducks or geese in the local park. Or around the local cat/s. Or pigeons. Or cars.

Er, the same way that you have to tell a child how to behave around ducks or geese in the local park. Or around the local cat/s. Or pigeons. Or cars.

So, how are we meant to behave around pigeons?? 😕 🙄

Oh dear.

This thread really takes the biscuit. Unbelievable.

Don't feed the pigeons obviously. 🙂

My daughter knows full well how to behave around ducks, sparrows and killer pigeons.
She is also aware that the big angry things fenced off in a field are not friendly teddy bears.
Why should I have to teach her to avoid your pet which is unpredictable, capable of killing, and ultimately pointless.
To further question things, who the **** either wants or needs an Irish Wolfhound, unless you need to protect a flock of sheep from wolves in Ireland.
I'm not a dog hater, and have had several, but they were pets and treated as such, i.e. not members of my family with the rights commensurate.

maccauk - Member
...To further question things, who the **** either wants or needs an Irish Wolfhound...

Me. They are lovely dogs. Great company on a run.

They're not frenetic like bored working dogs. Like most hounds they're happy to lie around all day so long as they get a bit of exercise at some point, and then they'll lie around for the rest of the day.

Anyway, some pratt up here wants to "reintroduce" wolves to restore the natural traditional environment, so there may be the opportunity to do some traditional hunting...

Best of luck protecting your flock of sheep then.
OK you want a massive dog, but ultimately it has no use and children shouldn't need to be educated as to their behaviour around it.
I must however admit that I ****ing hate kids (apart fom mine).

Best of luck protecting your flock of sheep then.
OK you want a massive dog, but ultimately it has no use and children shouldn't need to be educated as to their behaviour around it.
I must however admit that I **** hate kids (apart fom mine).

Agreed. ESPECIALLY the last part!!

This thread has made my mind up for me, thanks. I'm not going to teach my kid how to behave around cars. Seriously, why the **** should I have to do that? Who needs a HUGE 2L turbo diesel Skoda / Ford / Audi? They're unpredictable and literally kill and maim 1000s of people every year. They should have limiters. Period.

See how ****ing stupid that looks now?

And btw Trevron, you've done exactly the right thing for you and the wooly beast. Poor old chap - hope he ends up somewhere with a decent bit of ground to lope in and a warm fire with a comfy mat 🙂

Why should I teach my kids to be careful with strangers. They should be locked up or chained and shackled, who wants a big stranger any ways they're pointless.

I was there to enforce the 1972 control of pollution act, AA. I also got marched off land at shotgun point and had to return with a police escort. I didn't get injured because I was well prepared, I did my utmost not to injure the dogs whilst making sure I didn't get bitten. It wasn't the dogs' fault they were being used as weapons. When dogs were a problem the strategy was to get out alive and return with colleagues, and in a few bad cases the police.

Amusing incidents included negotiating with a farmer with a small dog firmly attached to the heel of my wellington boot whilst holding it down with my other foot. Less amusing incidents included escaping a pack of dogs.

Identify the alpha male if you can, keep an eye on that one.

Stop and turn sideways, I always had a crate of bottles in my left hand that I turned to the dogs and something useful in my right hand. Don't move or look directly at the alpha male, but when they get close shout a firm command "sit" (sounds daft I know). Let the dogs sniff but "dominate" any dog that remains aggressive and gets too close despite your non-aggressive stance, especially the alpha male. Slowly move away from the dogs' territory. If an owner appears make sure you are not between the dog and the owner.

This being STW I'd rather people did some Googling than give more detail. While you're doing it check on what being on a lead does in terms of dog psychology and especially how dogs consider children. You might think your dog is perfectly trained and safe around children but put it on a lead and put a child within its range in the wrong circumstances and the dog may bite. This is how the OP got caught out IMO, I'd have bought a muzzle rather than getting rid of the dog if this one incident was the only reason for not wanting the dog.

I'm deeply concerned about the OP handled this issue.

If word gets round about the free iPhones, I'm going to have mothers thrusting their squalling brats into the maw of our ravenous family pet.

If I got a smaller dog, do you think they'd settle for iPod Nanos?

Maybe it's better to let the dog consume the whole child so there's no evidence.

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3533/12988408754_be9d9ab282_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3533/12988408754_be9d9ab282_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

(BTW if the OP is still here, if there is a problem rehoming your dog because of his age, get in touch.)

Edukator - Troll
Any dog in a public place should be muzzled and on a lead, simple as.

Dogs bite kids, the only way to be certain a dog won't is to muzzle it.

Do you want a job at the Daily Mail?

Cock.

As long as anyone with a child in public also has to have it on a short lead & under control, if not muzzled certainly gagged. Other wise its a police matter.

Lets be honest sounds as if that too would also have prevented the incident.

Why should I have to teach her to avoid your pet which is unpredictable, capable of killing...

but they were pets and treated as such, i.e. not members of my family with the rights commensurate.

Dogs are members of the family and if you think otherwise you shouldn't have one in the first place, you feed them, look after them, educate them and train them, take care of them when they are ill, play with them etc etc all things which you do with your own family. They are a pack animal after all. Even working dogs are part of a family hierarchy. Dogs as well as people should be treated with respect. Both are capable of killing.

OP - did the right thing in the long run. Congrats and enjoy the new born 🙂

if the child had walked behind a horse and had been kicked or had approached a cat and been scratched, would these animals be deemed dangerous and be put down?? Why is it different when it is a dog? These reactions are defensive on the animals part when they feel threatened. From reading the OP's post, this is the what happened. Dishing out the death sentance for a natural reaction, to me, is way over the top.

I'm not sure whther this thread is full of trolls, but some of the views are frankly disturbing and completely out of touch with reality.

I'm not sure whther this thread is full of trolls, but some of the views are frankly disturbing and completely out of touch with reality.

Your right and its quite unusual to see so many in quick succession.

I'm not sure whther this thread is full of trolls, but some of the views are frankly disturbing and completely out of touch with reality.

The reality apparently being that everyone should just have to put up with potentially being bitten, because… well… he's part of my family, and we need to hopelessly indulge him to make our lives complete,so if he bites you, it was your fault. He was just doing what comes naturally. You should have known that

I'm feeling really neurotic and insecure, so I'm going to go out and buy a tiger to make me and my family feel complete. I'm going to take him out for walks in the park. So you lot better get learning how to behave around tigers, as he will of course be blameless for any subsequent severed limbs, or missing babies

SShhh Binners. He understands every word you are saying 😀

Do you want a job at the Daily Mail?

DuckDuckGo brings up plenty of articles that suggest their editorial stance on dogs is quite reasonable. This cat-saves-boy-from-dog-attack article is "heartwarming":

http://www.****/news/article-2629272/Boy-4-saved-dog-attack-Tara-cat-sleeps-live-interview-parents-reveal-Tara-cat-followed-home-park-slept-crib-baby.html

And the YouTube for those that do not wish to increase the DM hit count.

Scroll down to video

Utterly bizarre repsonses, the OP is clearly accepting full responsibility for something he wouldn't have predicted would have happened, and made a mistake. It happens ! its how we deal with it that counts, and he's never tried to shift any responsibility and taken level headed and proportionate action. Hes had to make some upsetting decisions and actions whatever the emotional implications of them are to ensure the problem doesn't arise again. Hats off to you fella. You clearly are aware of the correct principle of a dog bite always being the responsibility of the owner, whatever the situation. Which is why he's faced up to the responsibilities he has to his family and the public in the future.
Unrelated to the dog biting and the whole minefield surrounding that, it definitely concerns me that if the story is as per I read it, that the Parent takes the line of "I will go to the police if you don't buy a new iphone" that's some really odd parental reaction. Not "I will go to the police becasue your dog has bitten my child and we need to take action to ensure it cant happen to anyone else" to be compensated for a broken phone will then take its course as part of that action as an after priority.
But I feel for the OP. And the suggestion of destroying the dog because of one incident is just trolling surely. Would a Vet even do this ?
"Heres my dog, I've brought him in to be destroyed"
"Oh yes sir, why !"
"Hes been fine a gentle and loyal friend all his life, and we trusted him enough to be off the lead, he got spooked and bit a girl on the arm so she dropped her phone, which I know I have to take responsibility for , I know we could muzzle him after this, and be more careful about letting him off lead, or perhaps re-home him in a different environment, but to be honest I'd rather you just killed him now, is that OK ?"

FFS

I agree that you should be able walk outside freely without fear of being bitten. If my dog bit a child without provocation I wouldnt defend him and there would be serious consequences.

The troll point i was making was to those people who have said, 'all dogs should wear muzzles in public' and 'the dog should be put down'. Its not as black and white as that.

I have heard of occasions where a child has been bitten by a dog, but the child was teasing, poking and hurting the dog. Is that the dogs fault? or is it the childs fault? Should that dog get put down? The child should know that it is not ok to tease a dog, and therefore it is important that a child knows how to behave around a dog.

I'd be distraught if i had to make a decision like the OP has, so hats off to him for making that tough decision.

EDIT ; Hughjenqin - fully agree!

I Googled Edukator and it came back Troll. That's all I needed.

I think you'll find different people made those very different quotes so your 'and' should be an 'or', teenrat. Muzzles are good idea, rehoming sensible if there are children at home, execution a last resort.

I don't see how a dog can be teased, poked or hurt by a child in a public place if the owner is in control of his/her dog. Startled maybe as in this case. When I take my sister's daft dog out she is kept on a very short lead (held by the collar) when kids are close, with me between the dog and the child.

I often end the dog walk at the local shop. I tie the dog up outside, go in, make my purchases and exit.

Last year, I came out and there was a young lad dancing about all over the pavement shouting, "Your *swearword* dog just *curseword* bit me!".

I looked at the dog, who was cowering at the far end of his lead, looking very sheepish and got a cold sweat. Then the other lad piped up; "That *swearword* was poking your dog with his umbrella".

"Good", I said. "Hope it ****ing hurts".

Crossed posts, Drac, suggesting that dogs be muzzled in public is expressing an opinion, not trolling. It's already the law in Spain for all dogs over 25kgs and a list of breeds of any weight unless both owner and dog are professionally trained and pay a fee each year.

When I lived in Spain it was dog anarchy, to the extent there were housing estates in the town that nobody dared venture into on foot. The houses resembled military installations and there was a vicious dog behind every gate - when it was shut. It was clear something needed to be done. The last time we were in Spain in that area the houses still bristled with alarms and spiky-topped high walls but the dog problem was no more.

I reckon it's only a matter of time before high-profile maulings mean Spanish-style laws reach the UK:

[url= http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/forum/viewthread/1153/ ]third post down for Spanish laws[/url]

I don't see how a dog can be teased, poked or hurt by a child in a public place if the owner is in control of his/her dog

Well a small child of around 5 years old walked up to my dog (on the lead) in the park 2 weeks ago - I said "not too close" as I always do and the little sod then threw a handful of mud and stones right into the dogs face. The parent didn't even apologise and just walked off - but if the above comment is correct if my dog had reacted it would have been my fault not the brat or its fwit parent.

You are responsible dog owner so the child wasn't at risk, Rob. Your dog couldn't attack because it was on a lead and you were in control.

The kid that threw the mud and stones, and his parents were anti-social fwits. There are fwits and fwits with dogs, you have the satisfaction of knowing you are neither.

Hmmm! Last time I looked we weren't living on planet of the dogs here in the UK. Maybe we took a better approach before the Spanish did.

Edukator - every time you grab your sister's dog by the collar and pin him between you and your sister to walk past a child, the message you give the dog is 'this is a dangerous situation, we're worried so we're going to keep you safe'. This only causes the dog to be more concerned about children and more likely to react if one runs up to it in the future.

I won't ever think of mandating muzzles or leads for all dogs, but I absolutely will insist on anyone getting a dog learning about how to think 'dog' and how to properly understand them. There's a lot of truth to the statement 'there's no such thing as a bad dog just a bad owner'

The reality apparently being that everyone should just have to put up with potentially being bitten, because… well… he's part of my family, and we need to hopelessly indulge him to make our lives complete,so if he bites you, it was your fault. He was just doing what comes naturally. You should have known that

I'm feeling really neurotic and insecure, so I'm going to go out and buy a tiger to make me and my family feel complete. I'm going to take him out for walks in the park. So you lot better get learning how to behave around tigers, as he will of course be blameless for any subsequent severed limbs, or missing babies

Made me chuckle. Absolutely spot on though!

pin him between you and your sister to walk past a child

I didn't say that, please don't put words in my mouth. My sister wasn't with me and it was common sense to hold the dog by the collar and keep her on the other side of me as children passed. What do you do with your dog on narrow pavements and paths when other people pass you, Andy?

Sorry, misread the last bit of your post. Gripping the collar will give the dog a reason to be worried. I do the same thing for any child, runner or cyclist and get my dog to sit and focus on me. Took many hours of training as a puppy but if you're going to have or be in control of a dog that's what it takes. I'm lucky as he's a very smart border collie but I've done the same with rescue labs and terriers.

"soft mouth"

My folks have a lab cross. Gun dogs have the job of retrieving felled birds and such so they are chosen based on the fact that they pick things up with a soft mouth (ie. carry it gently like a bitch would with her pups).

"nipping"

In the context I was using is a warning "bite" that leaves no marks and relatively painless (unless you're a 3 year old who has just found out that the dog doesn't like being pulled by her tail). Only been nipped twice and both times I thoroughly deserved it.

Children should be taught to approach dogs with RESPECT rather than FEAR. Invade a dogs space and they will not like it however if you approach it keeping a reasonable distance then the dog will have no problems. You wouldn't just run up to someone in the street and start hugging them and if you did you would expect a possible angry reaction, why is a dog any different?

But then, why the **** should we teach our children respect when the world clearly owes it to them?

You wouldn't just run up to someone in the street and start hugging them

I agree, too many dog owners think it's ok to do just that using their dog as a proxy.

why is a dog any different?

In your world maybe but your views are a bit skewed from what I have read.

Interesting thread, this. One thing I'd like to comment on though is,

When did it become cool to blame the victim?

[list][*]I punched my wife in the face the other day. Serves her right, she should learn not to burn dinner.[/*]

[*]I had my phone stolen last night, it's my own fault, I left it on the table in the pub and took my eyes off it for a minute.[/*]

[*]My sister was raped last week, the lad said she was wearing a miniskirt, she was asking for it.[/*][/list]

There are things you can do to minimise the risk of becoming a victim, and a lot of it boils down to common sense (and a number of people have got into hot water for daring to suggest this). You don't walk into a rough part of town late at light waving an iPad around, as a random example. It's "asking" for trouble.

But, should that trouble arise, it's [i]not your fault.[/i] It's not your fault that some scumbag decides to lift your iPhone to pay for his next fix, it's not acceptable that someone should inflict violence upon someone else because of [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sophie_Lancaster ]how they're dressed[/url]. Unless you're actively touting bother then you can be as reckless / naive as you like and without thieves, thugs and arseholes these crimes will never happen.

Should the girl in the OP have been more careful around strange dogs? Almost certainly (assuming she even saw it, she apparently "startled" the dog, did they startle each other?) But is the girl to blame for the incident? Absolutely not, and shame on anyone who is suggesting otherwise.

Dear oh dear. Sometimes it's good to take a break from here to let the total ****ers sort themselves out.

Now seems like a good time 8)

Cougar - you're right and I don't think anyone has suggested that the girl was to blame. I was simply replying to those who seem to think that controlling their children and not allowing themselves to be placed in a potentially bad situation is not an option. As you say, it's common sense although that seems to be something of a rarity on here.

Surfer, in what way are my views skewed? I would be really interested to know. Or is skewed just an arsey way of acknowleding that people have differing opinions based on their experiences?

There are many public areas where dogs are allowed to run free that are also areas that children play. Your "common sense" would mean not allowing children to play freely where free dogs are present, Squirrelking. I put the rights of parents to allow kids to play above the rights of dog owners to put children in danger. The onus must always be on the dog owner to make sure their pet can never harm a child. Dog leads/muzzles are acceptable solutions, stopping children running around is not.

Good job he didn't claim it was then ay.

Read all of Squirrelkings posts please, Drac. Especially the one on page two. The capital letters of ALWAYS clearly indicate sarcasm/irony and that he really does think that it's the way people educate their children that's the problem not the inability of the owner to train and control the dog. With no need to use capitals I'll state without a hint of irony, sarcasm, outrage, injustice or whatever:

It's always the dog owner's fault when a dog bites a child in a public place.

Edit: Drac, every one of your posts on this page has been to have a pop at me. If you read through the thread my contributions are far from the most extreme or the most provocative.

That sounds painful.

It's always the dog owner's fault when a dog bites a child in a public place.

If you say so.

Drac, every one of your posts on this page has been to have a pop at me. If you read through the thread my contributions are far from the most extreme or the most provocative.

They're usual responses of you trying to provoke an argument of where only you are right and everyone should listen. Maybe my responses are only to you to try and point out to people what you're doing.

I'm not sure as "always" is correct.

Kid attacks dog with a stick, dog bites kid, dog's fault?

Kid attacks dog with a stick, dog bites kid, dog's fault?

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

"Edukator"

You know what, I have better things to be doing with my evening like making water. Have fun psychoanalysing everything I say and drawing your own fantastic conclusions.

FWIW - putting words in people mouths (as you have done with me) is extremely provacative and as such I'll just be ignoring you (don't feed the troll and all that) from here on.

Kid attacks dog with a stick, dog bites kid, dog's fault?

Dog owner's fault for not putting him/herself between the poor dog and the kid with a stick.

I think you can reasonably expect an adult to be capable of keeping a trained dog out of reach of a kid armed with a stick. I don't think you can reasonably expect a kid to be able to defend itself against a dog.