DofE Scheme

gives them something to put on UCAS forms 🙂

Used to be that if you got 3 "A"s at A level you were top flight and could go on to a top uni of your choice. With grade inflation almost half the kids seeem to now get top grades so other metrics are needed to pull out the actual top students. Thus, things like a Gold DOE, or an interesting summer job, voluntary work etc, need to be present on the CV as a passport to better uni placement/job prospects.

EDIT: When I was in school DOE was only done with the remedial kids who were unable to learn anything academic. That is going back over 40 years mind

I did it in School in the late 80s/early 90s and thought the whole thing was an absolutely fantastic experience. Looking back, I can't believe the stuff we were encouraged to do and did. Awesome memories, that even in middle age are not fading.

Middle daughter now embarking, and I believe in a structured way it encourages you to engage in a variety of experiences that you may not necessarily otherwise do.

Hats off to the instructors/assessors.

EDIT: no offence taken Welshfarmer 🙈😆

Doe was done in my school.   Glasgow comp back in the 70s.  One niticable thing was we had much less supervision.   No accompanying instructor.   No hand holding.  We just went and did our expedition IIRC

I did mine (Bronze Silver and Gold) at school and 6th form, i guess ending 2003 ish.
A great experience. very comparable to scouts i guess, but for older kids?
we did our final expedition in the highlands, which was an experience.

I volunteered to help at the Uni group in the first year, and then ended up "taking the mantle" (or having it dropped on me) from the second year.

We did a year through their course, but no one finished the final report so i dont think anyone got the award from the group.

Its totally reliant on volunteers as far as im aware and as a second year student i wasnt in any position to be hassling first years to hand in written reports so i dont feel too badly about no one completing it.

It says a lot about a school when staff are willing to spend all day teaching, and then spend all evening and weekend organising and running around after groups.

DoE is fantastic and I have nothing but admiration for the teachers who run it in their own time.

We run Silver at Scouts/Explorers as the local schools do Bronze.

From the expedition perspective we would expect our scouts to be doing stuff that is far more demanding by the time they get to 13 years old. To the extent that they absolutely smash the DoE bronze expedition, unless they make it hard for themselves and get lost like my daft son.

Seeing the change in the kids is one of the best bits of doing it. We got our Scouts Expedition Challenge ( https://www.scouts.org.uk/scouts/awards/expedition/) candidates together last night to give the heads up that it will be happening in the summer and they are all raring to have a go. A couple of years back they would have been horrified at the prospect.

DofE was available at my school in the mid 80s but I was already a Scout and my oarents told me I could do one or the other, so I stuck to Scouts and was the in the first group of Scouts on our Group to get their Chief Scouts Award, so no real regrets.

Eldest has gone through both, DofE Gold and Queens Scout, and I suspect the DofE expeditions were the only thing that he wasn't getting out of the Scouts, which was an issue with our unit at the time.

Daughter doing her silver this year - again the physical and skill challenges she covers elsewhere, but the volunteering aspect has surprised her how much she enjoys it.

What I did notice is that a couple of their friends, especially at Years 11-13, suddenly got very keen on DofE if they had no other way of showing outside experience on uni applications. One group of girls who were always too cool for that sort of thing ended up falling all over themselves to get places on the Citizens service thing, or whatever its called.

Being bright alone is not always enough, for work or uni.

To answer your question directly, it has obviously been around for years but has become massively more popular over the last 15 years or so.

No accompanying instructor

That you saw.

Up until a couple of years ago I ran the scheme at our school along with a colleague - it unfortunately fell by the wayside as we both have young families and the teaching workload kept creeping up.

A few points from my experience:

- It isn't all middle-class kids lookng for more UCAS juice. We actively avoided selling it as such and focused on the merit of the experience itself, and I know of a few other providers who did the same. There are a few groups out there who build programs for fold with additional support needs as well.

- Quite a few supervisors like to basically just follow the kids around on the expedition. PLenty of us don't though, and it's amazing how with a clever bit of course planning you can keep a good eye on the kids without them seeing much of you at all.

It's still a fantastic experience as a supervisor -the satisfaction of seeing the progres some of this kids make is definitely worth the dull hours of copy/pasting paperwork and trying to find minibus drivers. I'm not teaching any more but next year when we're a bit more settled in our new place I intend to put myself foward as a volunteer for some local groups.

On my lad's Bronze expedition they were on their own. Teachers were at the checkpoints, but the travelling between was unsupervised.

At scouts they are a bit younger, so the groups have adults with them but our role is safeguarding rather than helping.

Should be renamed The Senile Racist Old Bigot Award. To get it all you have to do is throw out bizarre sometimes racist insults to new people you meet.

It was available at school when I was there, so very late 80s and 90s - it seemed odd as when I looked at it, I could go straight to Silver as I had enough 'evidence' of things that the school knew about for them to confirm I was beyond Bronze level...and then i came unstuck - I wanted to do the cycling, but the school didn't think I'd manage it. They refused to entertain the idea of doing the cycling and despite me bringing in the photos from the 9 days I'd just spent riding around the Cairngorms with my mate and our panniers, this was decided to be too far and completely unacceptable.

So I never ended up doing it and looking back, I do wish I had.

My kid is doing Bronze just now and just back from their expedition - a huge mix of kids from various backgrounds - some good, some sadly not. I'd volunteered as a parent helper and was the roving spotter and got to ride around for 2 days on some nice trails just making sure the kids weren't completely lost. 2 checkpoints on first day and 1 checkpoint on second day (not including start and end point)...the kids were all set off in their groups at start and each checkpoint and that was it - left to navigate using the map and compass. I gave them 15 minute starts and then just rode around some nice terrain just making sure no-one was completely lost or injured/fallen down. (Was interesting to see how the banter changed as the days went on - the teachers didn't appear to change their approach much - they were all in good spirits and full of encouragement, but the kids started doing a lot more chatting to the teachers and became far more sociable creatures all sharing in the experience.

As much as I make my usual rubbish jokes about teachers and the holidays they get, it was very impressive to see the teachers in action outside the classroom and helping encourage the kids along. For some of the kids, this was a complete shock to the system and they really struggled, a small number of others seemed to absolutely relish the adventure.

I had a great 2 days just being on the sidelines and helping make sure the kids were progressing. Enjoyed it so much, I'm helping with 2 more of their Bronze sessions in the next coming weeks.

Expedition appeared to be kicked into touch without too much hassle (although tiredness has well and truly hit over the last 2 days). Coaching was used for volunteering and culminated in getting the Level 1 Coaching in Cycling award from British Cycling - so there will be a Bronze DofE award on the CV and a Coaching qualification to be added as well. Silver is being signed up for as soon as possible as well.

Having seen it in action - well the expedition bit - I'd be recommending that every kids signs up for this as all the kids returned happier, calmer and very happy at seeing some scenery that they would never have gone to see themselves.

Teacher here, I am getting to run a group for ASN kids for the first time ever this year which I am really looking forward to (had to boast about that!) Our lot walk from Glenfinnan to Knoydart for gold, an absolute epic of a walk which is steeped in History. We get piles from it as well, kids in the award that you teach see a different side of you and that helps in the classroom. I got paid to do my ML by my authority, nobody complains when I borrow kit etc, puffing my chest out as I see kids I have taught for 6 years stagger up to the finish outside the Old Forge with just the biggest grins on their poor wee sun/wind burnt/midge eaten sweaty faces.
We are one of the few schools in the area still doing it right the way up to gold for nothing more than the cost of the log book. Other schools have outsourced it unfortunately because of the amount of work and time it is taking us now which takes it away from less well off families in some cases. It is an amazing award which if young folk do for the right reason will give them skills that will be useful all their lives...oh, and UCAS as well I guess.

Should be renamed The Senile Racist Old Bigot Award. To get it all you have to do is throw out bizarre sometimes racist insults to new people you meet.

Or just display blind ignorance in a public place.

my lads school outsourced it to and even then there were over subscribed and had to put on another group.
I ended up volunteering to help as it was an excuse to get out in the hills and I was going to be dropping off/picking up anyway.

As much as I have kids I really enjoyed it

Should be renamed The Senile Racist Old Bigot Award. To get it all you have to do is throw out bizarre sometimes racist insults to new people you meet.

What a positive, uplifting, uncontentious thread. An all too rare thing on STW. Oh, hang on.....😕

Hats off to all the teachers and other volunteers who run DofE, I think it's a brilliant thing. It always makes me smile when I see a group out in the hills. Usually with all sorts of spare boots, tin mugs and huge foam sleeping mats loosely tied to a mahoosive overloaded bergen! Wasn't an option at my school in the late 70s. It was at my kids school, but they both opted to do CCF and Ten Tors instead.

I never had the option to do it when I was at school or college, but my son is currently doing the bronze with his group of friends at school and loving it.

He's at the age where he won't do anything like it with me and his Mam when we go walking/cycling/camping, but because he's done loads with us in the past including kayak and sail camping his friends who've not even camped in their back garden look up to him and it's given him a new confidence at his new school.

It's definitely great for his friends too who don't have families with the interest, knowledge or kit to take them out. His best friend said she's never camped or even stayed in a caravan,despite living here all her life she hardly knows where anywhere is outside the town.

He can do silver next year, but that's as far as the school goes.

Having being a teacher way back, and having taken kids on outdoor education trips, I understand what an additional burden on their limited own time it is to them. They're stars.

One niticable thing was we had much less supervision. No accompanying instructor. No hand holding. We just went and did our expedition IIRC

How did you notice that when there is still no accompanying instructor ?

Usually with all sorts of spare boots, tin mugs and huge foam sleeping mats loosely tied to a mahoosive overloaded bergen!

60 litre pack being carried by a 50 litre kid.

Judging by the amount of SuperNoodles getting consumed, I suspect there were some extra stocks on shelves of the local shops. Couple of kids had then for dinner, then breakfast, then lunch and had a couple more packs for snacks!!!

On my lad’s Bronze expedition they were on their own. Teachers were at the checkpoints, but the travelling between was unsupervised.

We had a huge problem with the main organiser in our school who insisted on walking with the pupils right through both practice and qualifying expeds. One assessor said they would not pass pupils in future if that happened as the walk had not been done independently.

Eventually we convinced them to stay out of sight and only meet kids at set checkpoints. On the very first trip we did this a pupil thought they were having an epileptic fit and although everything worked out just fine the organiser felt fully vindicated and all future expeditions were given zero independence. 🙁

I know we had no supervisor.  I knew the teachers doing it.  No one came with us.

I know we had no supervisor. I knew the teachers doing it. No one came with us.

But you said you noticed this recently . As if you noticed that today's kids don't get what you got.

Unless as spin suggests it's poorly coordinated.

Unless as spin suggests it’s poorly coordinated.

I was suggesting that tj's DofE expeditions maybe were supervised but that they didn't see the supervisors. I've quite often done a day supervising where the pupils never saw me but they were rarely out of my sight for more than half an hour.

DofE manager for a school (which is it's own DofE operating authority) here. 4 Gold groups heading out tomorrow first thing and 7 more on the coronation weekend.72 kids. Currently sat at my desk in exped paperwork meltdown.

Re popularity - I forget the numbers but it's generally on the up. Covid was tough for a lot of places but they made a huge number of adjustments to keep it going, some of which will be staying. I've mixed views about some of them as permanent arrangements. Conversion is still the biggest issue nationally - kids not getting all 4 sections completed or assessors not writing their reports.

One of the biggest issues now are assessors for expeditions. There was a time when most of the assessing was done by volunteers doing it because they thought it important to make it possible, enjoyed it and asked for a bit of money towards petrol and a few pints at the end. Every centre had a few tame folk they could call to assess or you could go to the DofE 'panel' and be assigned one for your planned expedition. It's very much more commercialised now and most qualified assessors want a proper day rate. If you have got your ML or relevant paddling award, ideally live in an expeditioning area and believe in this stuff becoming an assessors is very very easy. Then either volunteer to help out a local group for a warm glow inside or top up your pension by asking the full going rate. Ditto being a supervisor although centre's will have a few more DBS/DRV hoops to jump through in that role.

And supervision - yes, it has tightened up a lot I think. I remember my bronze as a 14 year old (so not in wild country) - teacher drove out and checked we'd made it to our camp spot then went home. But as above you can supervise and still make the expedition feel like their own very easily.Sometimes the terrain can make it difficult not to be just half an hour ahead or behind them with no other realistic route to journey.

I did trips similar to D of E when I was at school and scouts.

Particularly for schools D of E provides a safe frame work for a hazardous activity. This makes it safer for students and reduces the liability for schools and staff envolved. I think it boils down to a hypothetical question in court. “Was it reasonable to let this group do this expedition?” . If the answer is I was following a scheme which titans of students safely bike every year the answer is more likely to be yes.

We have had a group where a student fell unconscious. By the time staff got there the other students had the got the student into a tent then they’d been air lifted to safety. Mountain Rescue team were really impressed (not sarcastic)

Used to be that if you got 3 “A”s at A level you were top flight and could go on to a top uni of your choice. With grade inflation almost half the kids seeem to now get top grades so other metrics are needed to pull out the actual top students. Thus, things like a Gold DOE, or an interesting summer job, voluntary work etc, need to be present on the CV as a passport to better uni placement/job prospects.

I’m a big believer in the scheme. However I think there is a pressure on universities not to use non academic criteria unless it’s relevant to the course. So volunteering in an old people’s home helps with medicine applications because it’s relevant. First 15 rugby, lead in the school play and a paid for gap year saving turtles doesn’t help you get into maths as it’s not relevant. Those extras are much easier to acquire with wealth. Oh and we have A* as well

However I think there is a pressure on universities not to use non academic criteria unless it’s relevant to the course.

A few years back I took a group of pupils to Cambridge as part of an archaeology outreach programme. The message from the university was clear. To paraphrase "if you want to study maths we aren't interested in your musical ability".

Those extras are much easier to acquire with wealth. Oh and we have A* as well

I always thought (might be wrong!) That DofE was initially conceived as something for less advantaged kids. It's largely become the opposite. But it's a perennial problem, how to get the disengaged to engage with the things that might benefit them?

I always thought (might be wrong!) That DofE was initially conceived as something for less advantaged kids.

Well almost everyone was less advantaged than HRH's education at Gordonstoun!

It’s largely become the opposite. But it’s a perennial problem, how to get the disengaged to engage with the things that might benefit them?

I think if it does lead to success it also becomes a self perpetuating phenomenon.  I certainly didn't come from a privileged background but not lead a very lucky life.  Did DoE play a part in that?  Hard to say, but certainly had some impact.  Because I valued it and believe its a good thing, I'm more likely to encourage/support my kids doing it.

Is the increase in popularity because it's been outsourced to commercial companies who are then selling it to schools on how essential it is? (Genuine question!)

I didn't have the chance to do it when I was at school, my wife did bronze and maybe silver. My lad did bronze last year and is doing his Silver his year, he's just been on a practice hike last week and their proper one is in June I think. Teachers went to the start point then check points and camped over as well I think but most of the walks they were on their own.

They're all reall y enjoying it and I'm so glad he's got the oportunity to do it, We weren't sure if his school would run it after covid.

Hoping my daughter wants to do it next year as well. Not sure if my lad will do gold but I hope he does. I'd love to have done when I was a kid.

Thank you to all the folk that run these things.

Is the increase in popularity because it’s been outsourced to commercial companies who are then selling it to schools on how essential it is? (Genuine question!)

Not outsourced at our school.

Not outsourced at our school.

It was at my daughters' school, and is a simple matter of google to verify:

https://www.dofe.org/do/aap/

Is the increase in popularity because it’s been outsourced to commercial companies who are then selling it to schools on how essential it is? (Genuine question!)

My gut feel is no.  It may be I've missed the relevant marketing, but what I believe is increasingly "commercially operated" is predominantly (perhaps almost exclusively?) the expedition element (and possibly the residential part of gold).  What I have seen, seems to market that as taking the time/hassle/risk/equipment aspects away from teachers or others coordinating the scheme rather than promoting DoE as a concept - ie. they are promoting to people who are already sold on the idea just want a chunk of the work done rather than the participants themselves.

Obviously, there is marketing from DoE itself but it has an enviable 100K+ successful award recipients every year, most of whom will have some sort of positive experience, which means there are a lot of people out there who will advocate to others that its a good idea.

My gut feel is no. It may be I’ve missed the relevant marketing, but what I believe is increasingly “commercially operated” is predominantly (perhaps almost exclusively?) the expedition element

Yeah, that's my feeling as well. There were a couple of teachers involved with my daughters DoE, but also the outsourced company. I was essentially wondering how much marketing those companies do. I can see the benefits for the school in doing it that way.

I don't have any data on whether there are more commercial providers, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few schools where the teachers' other workload means they have to bring someone else in to run at least part of the award.

We have had a group where a student fell unconscious. By the time staff got there the other students had the got the student into a tent then they’d been air lifted to safety. Mountain Rescue team were really impressed (not sarcastic)

Not surprised, being able to pilot a helicopter at that age is seriously precocious 🙂

Plugging the Scout Movement here... But if your kids like this sort of thing seek out your local Explorer unit. This is what they do!

I can't remember it being a thing in the 70s but I am really grateful to teachers for organizing / supervising DoE. (Grateful to teachers anyway.)

I hope that the school does subsidised places for kids that need it, but not noticed, it as is is a chunk of cash.

Was disappointed that they discourage the kids to hang tin mugs off their rucksack ("makes them look like a newbie") as it always made me grin as I pedalled past them in the forest. Please encourage them to hang as much as possible on the outside of their packs, it is a joyful sight 😁 !

Daughter is having a meltdown on what to wear to school before the expedition 🤷 as told non-uniform.

I have volunteered to drive the minibus overspill for the expedition (might happen to be fairly close to a trail centre 🙄).

@binman that was how they got me in - figured I could taxi then go ride nearby. Ended up riding the area as a sweeper and finder (if needed). Was brilliant.

seek out your local Explorer unit. This is what they do!

Not just the Explorers!

Picked my daughter up from her DofE practice yesterday, and she asked what was the purpose of it & commented that others said colleges like it when you apply!