[Closed] Does anyone care what Barrack says?

I wish I had your confidence 😉

So do I - I hate to see you suffer unnecessarily 😉

It gives me something to argue about, so it's not all bad 😀

I don't think the UK will vote to leave, and I would rather have a say in the decision than sit on the sidelines and pretend that a rUK does not affect me. Don't worry ben if you think an indy Scotland has no worries about being in the EU then campaign for your compatriots Farage, Fox, Gove and Johnson to get the result you long for.

I'd rather not, because as much as I think independence is right for Scotland, I don't think it'd benefit England to leave the EU.

I don't expect you to condider it or care, however I dont think the EU benefits from Brexit.

Of course I care - I bear no ill will towards England at all. I just don't think it benefits us to be in the same country, with the current political system.

@ben Who's to say Scotland won't vote Leave ? Thankfully this Referendum campaign is only 3 months, 2 years what where they thinking 8O. Ben the EU is bust, it's heading rapidly for the plug hole. There is also a very big difference between an independent nation of 60m re-asserting itself and a new country of 5m trying to find its way. If we do vote Leave I suspect Scottish indepenence will look less attractive as they will realise they have to take the euro immediately even if they could join.

What's hilarious is listening to the very same people who moan about unelected EU bureaucrats meddling in our affairs then going weak at the knees when an unelected monarch waves at them.

There is a fundamental difference between fhe Queen who takes a role above politics and is the very cornerstone of our country and its national identity and the EU which is a club of bureaucrats desperate to create a superstate and who couldn't govern their way out of a wet paper bag.

Of course I care - I bear no ill will towards England at all. I just don't think it benefits us to be in the same country, with the current political system.

If thats the case why do we (the rest of the UK, or more specifically England or more specifically the South East, subsidise you so much ? In comparison its Scotland who is the net taker much like the EU

There is no positive Remain campaign because no one is enthusiastic about the EU in fact Corbyn is positively against (all such blog posts conveninetly now deleted of course) and Cameron and Osbourne are hardly convincing. The Remainers talk aboutvstaying in a Reformed EU without acknowledging the real reforms will take it further away from what they want and inevitably towards political Union. Just look at Obama's arrival in Germany, all you can see are US and EU flags with the odd German foag struggling to get a look in.

There is no positive Remain campaign because no one is enthusiastic about the EU in fact Corbyn is positively against

Vote leave all the good bits with none of the bad...

the very cornerstone of our country

HAHAHAHAHA!

**** ME!

There is also a very big difference between an independent nation of 60m re-asserting itself and a new country of 5m trying to find its way.

There are several countries the size of Scotland already in the EU - they're doing okay.

fhe Queen who takes a role above politics and is the very cornerstone of our country and its national identity

Your identity, maybe - the queen is an irrelevance to most people. And a role above politics? If that's so, why does she have so many meetings with politicians, which are exempt from FoE?

If thats the case why do we (the rest of the UK, or more specifically England or more specifically the South East, subsidise you so much ?

The South-East of England has the highest tax receipts, that's true - but Scotland is a net contributor to the UK economy.

Hmmmmmm... who's opinion to listen to when it comes the future of our countries economy? Its certainly a dilemma......

[img] [/img]

or

[img] [/img]

I just can't decide. I probably need some impartial advice from someone who knows about such matters. Someone to sit down in the pub with, with a pint, who'll tell me how it really is....

[img] [/img]

fhe Queen who takes a role above politics and is the very cornerstone of our country and its national identity

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Even "Republican" Australia voted to retain the Monarchy, if we had a referendum it wouls be a landslide to retain it. Salmond and the SNP are no migs politically and they are Monarchists

@binners you are totally glossing over the point that Obama is speaking for what ia good for the US, that's his job. It was said over the weekend that TTIP is close to being signed when that is not the case, there is huge resistance in France and Germany and many UK campaign groups like 38 Degrees trying to block it as they say its bd for the NHS. All those Remain-ers should stop amd think about that, voting for an organisation which will negotiate a deal on our behalf which many say is bad for us. Farrage has it right, its not a trade deal its a big "corporate stich up"

the queen is an irrelevance to most people.

Cmon Ben, dont start the week so poorly

And a role above politics? If that's so, why does she have so many meetings with politicians, which are exempt from FoE?

Not that hard to understand surely?

but Scotland is a net contributor to the UK economy.

It takes some mental gymnastics to conclude that any region whose expenditure > its revenue is a net contributor, but hey ho?

Jambas - why wouldnt he talk for the US-interest perspective? Plus you will have read in this morning's FT that Obama and Merkel are pushing hard for the deal to be concluded this year.

And note that with all the political will, this is still going to take time. So this shows just how fantatsic and nonsensical the arguments of the Brexiters are when it comes to negotiating deals, especially when there will be political ill-will in the case of a divorce. Gove is a pure fantasist.

Good to see Bojo lying again about the cost of EU membership in the Torygraph this morning. No surprise there although one would hope tbat the Editorial team would pick it up. Its a simple thing to check.

@tmh Leave have decided to use the gross contributions to the EU prior to rebates, its factually correct. We have't yet had the discussion about the extra £2bn we had to pay as the calculation was revised with higher figures formthe illegal drug trade and prostitution. Our budget contributions include the "black market" - its such a joke you couldn't make it up.

I have no problem with Obama speaking for the US, trying to claim he's advising the UK about what's best for us is nonsense.

Did anyone else hear his bbc interview where he said a trade deal [b]could[/b] take 10 years or 5 years ? Hey why nite make another guess and "could" is such a useful word bit like @jive using "linked" all the time. The EU has never had a trade deal with the US so do we really care ? Sorting out indistrial scale tax avoidance utlilising the EU structures is far more important

Happily the straw poll on the front page is showing that common sense will prevail 🙂

@tmh Leave have decided to use the gross contributions to the EU prior to rebates, its factually correct.

Its not and the ONS is very clear on the issue - but think about if from a cash flow perspective to make it easier - our transfers are post rebate. So from both a theoretical, factual and practical perspective its a lie - [b]pure and simple[/b]. And deliberate at that...

Simple analogy - you go to Nirvana cycles and ask the cost of a new bike. Simon knows you and says the RRP is £xxx(x) but we will give you a 15% discount. What is the cost of your bike? £xxx(x) or £xxx(x) minus 15%?

Like most Brexit stuff its easily falsifiable. They will be making stuff up about immigration next....

Sanders and Clinton both on the side of remain.

jambalaya - Member
@tmh Leave have decided to use the gross contributions to the EU prior to rebates, its factually correct.

Completely disingenuous to say it's the cost of the EU.

Never mind all that nonsense! Just look at his cheeky little face. Look at it! Ha ha.... He's so funny! And he says we should leave so that he gets to play at being PM

[img] [/img]

Why listen to a president who during his time wanted to 'pivot to Asia', complained about British intervention in Libya, won't be in a job in 12 months time and ultimately is only interested in what best suits the USA (not that I blame him for it, it's his job).

The UK and USA will have a relationship regardless of the EU in or out vote, simply because the UK still owns strategic assets like military bases on Cyprus and is part of the 5 eyes network.

complained about British intervention in Libya,

Are you saying that he (Obama) is a man of vision too?

Why listen to a president who during his time wanted to 'pivot to Asia', complained about British intervention in Libya, won't be in a job in 12 months time and ultimately is only interested in what best suits the USA (not that I blame him for it, it's his job).

Obama praised Merkel's handling of the refugee crises today, I think there are many in Germany and Europe who would strongly disagree and miles and miles of freshly installed barbed wire wouod say otherwise.

I am genuinely fearful of the implications of us leaving the EU. Obama speaks sense.

I work in finance in the city - with a focus on troubled companies and their debt levels. What I am seeing already:-
- the banks pulling back from new lending as they cannot assess the risk properly
- pricing of existing corporate debt being pushed upwards to reflect increased risk profiles (and who do you think will ultimately pay for this increase?)
- recoveries and insolvency teams in banks/accountants/lawyers briefing internally on the expected massive upturn in corporate failures in the immediate aftermath of a leave vote caused by the banks refusing the renew or calling in debt
- my wife's employer (large multinational with 10000+ employees) privately briefing on pulling out in the event of a leave vote but refusing to comment publicly

On a personal level everyone I know is beginning to cut spending as far as possible and will be on credit crunch type spending if we vote to leave. Consumer discretionary spend will drop and the spiral of economic decline will accelerate (effectively a UK only credit crunch). Within 12 months we will be completely b*ggered with the rest of the EU laughing at us.

Needless to say I will be voting to stay (even though my own professional skillset will suddenly become highly sought after on an exit) and I urge those of you who believe exit is a good idea to really consider the direct economic impact this will have on yours and your family's life. I cannot see any outcome other than all of us being significantly worse off. Only the very very cash rich will be ok and if that's you then fill-yer-boots or, maybe, think about the impact on everyone else.

Why listen....

(To repeat) For the very obvious reason that he is representing the views of the largest economy in the world, a significant ally and a major trading partner.

[b]Why would you possibly choose not to listen?[/b]

[To avoid the harsh or inconvenient truth perhaps?]

I cannot see any outcome other than all of us being significantly worse off.

Yes but we'll be able to stand - our chests swelling with national pride - in our glorious isolation, King Boris our leader at the helm, wrapped proudly in a Union Jack, as the economy sinks beneath the waves, at least there will be no pesky EU eurocrats interfering in our affairs.

And thats what really matters, right?

@tmh what's the figure net of rebates and EU grants - £225m a week I think ?

We should listen to Obama and form our own judgemnet on what he has to say and think about why he is saying it

I think it is fair to say in the short term a Brexit would make the UK worse off financially. But it is whether in the long term it might help, partly but killing off zombie companies and allowing new ones to take their place, partly by allowing the UK to focus on trade with parts of the world the EU struggles to with and partly by allowing UK companies to become more competitive with the Germans etc.

Ultimately no one can tell you whether over the medium to long term we'd be better or worse off, so you may as well vote on other criteria in my book.

Albeit it's a series of personal observations, there's more insight into the possible reality in Medders' post than I've had from either camp over the last few weeks.

Ultimately no one can tell you whether over the medium to long term we'd be better or worse off, so you may as well vote on other criteria in my book.

Such as..?

I do feel that I have to congratulate the usual right-wing suspects on this thread, for really upping your game in your shear total bonkersness output. Even by usual standards

Good effort! 😀

[img] [/img]

Such as..?

You choose, it's you vote after all 🙂

But maybe this thread could become useful and we could crowd source some questions & answers or KPIs that could help?

dragon - Member
Ultimately no one can tell you whether over the medium to long term we'd be better or worse off, so you may as well vote on other criteria in my book

You should only gamble if you can afford to lose.

right now my vote is based on the personalities of who is on the 'leave' campaign.

I don't much care for cameron and osborne but they are infinitely preferable to Boris and IDS in charge...

and partly by allowing UK companies to become more competitive with the Germans etc.

Would you please explain in what ways the UK will be more competitive with Germany by no longer being a member of the EU, since I would have thought that both the UK and Germany being members of the EU would have meant that we were competing on a shared level playing field.

Within 12 months we will be completely b*ggered with the rest of the EU laughing at us.

This. I work for a large-ish engineering consultancy and recently the UK board was here telling us about research they'd commissioned into the effects of brexit on our business. To say they weren't optimistic would be quite an understatement. They made it pretty clear that anyone who voted to leave was playing russian roulette with their careers. And yet I talk to some colleagues who still intend to vote out, and these are otherwise intelligent, sensible, rational, educated people. 😕

This is totally anecdotal, but everyone I know who was pro-exit has, since the weekend, been adopting a sudden "American Presidents opinions don't matter to us" policy.

The very fact that they need to repeatedly say this means that, obviously, to many, American Presidents opinions do matter, and matter a great deal.

Trying to tar him as a Brit-hater is about the worst and daftest ad-hom I've seen or heard of, and I would think anyone who attempted to use this must surely think: wait a minute here, I'm reaching. But it seems not.

I don't much care for cameron and osborne but they are infinitely preferable to Boris and IDS in charge...

Just met a couple of friends who asked me how I'd be voting 🙂 One runs a small business, the other in a service industry job and said they where 100% out. The business owner voted Yes for a Common Market in 75 but repeated the common line that's not what we've got now and the "Octopus" is only going to further strangle us.

As for better/worse off in the short term in event of Brexit that needs to cover the Greek default / EU contagion scenario (sorry to keep on about this but its the single biggest economic risk we face at the moment). Also nothing much will change in the short term as the Government won't have the courage to trigger an immediate exit. The biggest risk in the event of a Leave vote is the government trying to weasle out of any exit at all. If we Remain within 5 years the EU will have grown again with more poor countires joining further undermining UK wages and working conditions and a backdrop of deepening EU recession

Yes, it's funny.

Pre-Obama, it was all "We'll be able to trade more with the USA without the EU holding us back."

Now, it's "Screw you, USA, we don't need you anyway!"

partly but killing off zombie companies and allowing new ones to take their place

All those zombie companies based in places like, erm, the British Virgin Islands?

@dazh business (sadly) these days is managed for the very short term - if consultants see the risk of short term disruption that will play heavily on their analysis. I work in finance and I am firmly out as you all know, we get hired by clients globally (vast majority outside EU) based on merit not whether the UK is in a political club. In fact a number of daft EU regulations make us less competitve than our US or Asian based competitors. The EU is in a mess on financial regulations with political pressure for "Tobyn Tax" yet we have such a tax already and they do not (Stamp Duty on share transactions). Its just another example of how its a poltical club and not a business orientated one.

@cody, I absolutely take what Obama has to say seriously although I personally think Clinton's comments (pro Remain) are more relevant as Obama will be long gone. My explanation for this stance I have given here, US foreign policy interests.

Post a Leave vote we will trade with the US in exactly the same way as we do now. There has been no deal for 43 years. IMO if we Leave the EU/US TTIP negotiations will be put back significantly as France/Germany are not keen and the balance of EU interests will shift without the Uks service based economy

We should listen to Obama and form our own judgemnet on what he has to say and think about why he is saying it

Agreed, but that is different to what you and dragon were saying on the previous page when you questioned listening to Obama

In fact a number of daft EU regulations make us less competitve than our US or Asian based competitors.

😯

I personally think Clinton's comments (pro Remain) are more relevant as Obama will be long gone.

+1 Clinton is definitely more pro UK as well.

zombie companies based in places like, erm, the British Virgin Islands?

No you are confusing shell companies with zombie companies, not the same thing.

Post a Leave vote we will trade with the US in exactly the same way as we do now.

So either Brexit boys or Obama are/is telling porkies.

The US had been removing trade barriers consistently over the period. Note the lesson to be learned there and repeated last week - [b]the US prefers to do deals with regional trading blocks and has little appetite for deals with individual nations [/b]- an approach that is perfectly understandable.

@tmh, EU risk retention rules mean I can only access 60% of market whereas US/Asian managers don't have to comply. The eligable deals trade 100-200bps more expensively.

Sky News covering the story about German resistance to the proposed trade deal, as I said 30,000 person anti demonstration in Germany recently - its not a free trade deal, it caters for US large corporate special interests

@tmh, TTIP is not going to be signed for years if at all and in the aftermath of a Leave nothing will change in the short term. Personally I'd trigger exit immediately and go after offshore tax evaders like Apple/Google/Facebook/Starbucks immediately and aggressively and also put a firm barrier between us and EU implosion ASAP

[i]I am genuinely fearful of the implications of us leaving the EU[/i]

+1

If not for me, for my children.

If not for me, for my children.

We can all find individual anomalies - the EU has many. man flaws which we agree on. But that doesn't mean a dash to leave is in our interests.

And there is no such thing as a free [s]lunch[/s] trade deal, agreed. So Brexit boys need to setp back, smell the coffee, look at the evidence and re-consider what unilateral [s]lunches[/s] trade deals with the EU and others would cost FOR EXACTLY THE REASONS YOU GIVE.

Are there any examples of unilateral trade deals with the EU which come with certain financial obligations or requirements to satisfy aspects of EU legislation? Hmm.....

@Pigface your mind was made up long ago so nothing that's happened recently is going to make any difference to you. I'm out campaigning regularly and getting a lot of positive feedback, thats what I care about. We live in a democracy and I'm doing what I can to be part of that process.

How about Brexit boys using accurate data and facts as part of the democratic process, starting shall we suggest with the cost of membership?

A bet you a pint (on the shore or Lakes) that the next figure quoted by your boys will be the wrong one.

@tmh, of course UK businesses would have to meet EU product regulations to sell there. No problem with that. However the businesses that do nothing with the EU should not have to, speaker (small businessman) at Vote Leave event a week ago said UK small business does 6% of its trade with the EU but has to follow 100% of the regulations with all the associated costs and those are regulatuons which may or may not make sense for a UK domestic business. The growth markets of the world are all outside Europe, the expanding EU argument is akin to "never mind the quality feel the width"

[i]Where will your children live when by 2030 there are at least 3m more people in the UK, how will the NHS and Universities cope ? How will they find a job when faced with immigrants very willing to work for low wages ? [/i]

They'll live in their houses, the ones they live in now - although I'm confused, is this if we leave or stay? 😉

My kids are pretty much all grown-up, and it's them that are going to be 'paying' the cost. That is why I'm worried for them, as I'll be retired (early) by the time the chaos hits.

A bet you a pint (on the shore or Lakes) that the next figure quoted by your boys will be the wrong one.

Vote Leave event a week ago said UK small business does 6% of its trade with the EU but has to follow 100% of the regulations with all the associated costs and those are regulatuons which may or may not make sense for a UK domestic business.

those are regulatuons which may or may not make sense for a UK domestic business

Can we please have some examples of these regulations?

@br, understood I was assuming they where younger - if they own already good for them as prices will be going up strongly as a result of continued uncontrolled immigration. My scenario was Remain and the 3m EU immigrants was the number the Treasury/Tories used. You are also forgetting the risk of the UK funding an EU wide bailout, thats a lot of debt for your and my kids to be saddled with. I wonder when we'll get VAT on food as they do ?

jambalaya

Where will your children live when by 2030 there are at least 3m more people in the UK, how will the NHS and Universities cope ? How will they find a job when faced with immigrants very willing to work for low wages ?

I was assuming they where younger - if they own already good for them as prices will be going up strongly as a result of continued uncontrolled immigration.

Can we please have some examples of these regulations?

On another note the US hs already finalised a compensation deal with Volkswagen? In Europe nothing clear yet as whether cars will be repaired and/or compensation offered. Why is that I wonder ? Transport Select Comittee chair speaking now about how its been known for years that the lab tests are nonsense but EU interests have meant nothing has been done.

jambalaya - Member

My scenario was Remain and the 3m EU immigrants was the number the Treasury/Tories used.

Aye, and I did like the response to that paper from the Exit people. "All of this paper is complete rubbish! Except for the one bit we like, it's 100% reliable!"

but the £350m one they've chosen with good reason not least as our Rebate can be challenged and its frequently threatened.

No really 😀 😀

Nothing to do with the fact that it happens to be roughly 40-50% above the real figure 😉

@tmh, of course UK businesses would have to meet EU product regulations to sell there. No problem with that.

Your team mates either ignore this or have a very big problem with that. Plus it begs a pretty obvious question!

Maybe they will be living and working in another part of the EU.

Exactly, I have done that (France), my son has already done that (France) as has his girlfriend (Spain, Germany). The joy of freedom of movement - a brilliant idea!

To date, immigration has increased both the supply and demand for labour - you cant juts look at the supply side, however convenient. Hence it has not had negative impact on wages of "British workers" (whoever they are?), on the contrary it has benefitted them - individual anecdotes aside.

Those 3 million immigrants will help pay my pension.

Where will your children live when by 2030 there are at least 3m more people in the UK, how will the NHS and Universities cope ? How will they find a job when faced with immigrants very willing to work for low wages ?

So that's the main out argument is it? Foreigners coming over here, taking our jobs, filling our schools and hospitals, and presumably taking our women? It's pretty pathetic, not to mention arrogant.

Funny isn't it how on the one hand you say the economic effects of brexit won't be as bad as the stay camp say they will, but on the other you say the effects of EU immigration will definitely be as bad or worse as the leave camp say they will. How come you can be so certain on one but not the other?

How about the 10 year (?) argument about whether we could call chocolate chocolate, a total waste of business, civil servant and government time and money ?

So in another scenario linked to what Obama said. If the worst happens and sanity takes a holiday and el prezidenta Trump declares a raft of protectionist trade policies that hit car manufacturers etc. How far down the list would an independent UK be on the call answering in the white house?

There are 6 million more people in the UK than there were 15 yrs ago. I live in a house.

HTH

Well Michael was on form in The Times today

Gove wrote in The Times today: “The other countries will know that until a deal which suits us is reached we still retain a veto over their plans. So that gives us all the cards.”

They need some team badges with "No really" and Pinocchio on them.

Sorry Mike but trying to blackmail Europe is not one of your finer moments - like most Brexit arguments, falls over at the first step ie, qualified majority voting.

Its sadly reminiscent of watching adolescent kids trying to outdo each other in school debates - embarrassing if ocassionally amusing

How about the 10 year (?) argument about whether we could call chocolate chocolate, a total waste of business, civil servant and government time and money ?

How much actual money? Maybe it took 10 years because no-one was really bothered except the Sun/Mirror &co?

On another note the US hs already finalised a compensation deal with Volkswagen? In Europe nothing clear yet as whether cars will be repaired and/or compensation offered. Why is that I wonder ?

Maybe because the rules are different and the cars are also different.. just a hunch 🙄

Worst debater ever, Jam.

How will they find a job when faced with immigrants very willing to work for low wages ?

Did it occur to you that his children might actually BE the immigrants.....?

Re the costs to business, Brexit boys again love to quote selectively (the polite way of saying inaccurately/decetifully) from the Open Europe study (source of the claim that regulation costs us £600m a week.

Conveniently ignoring

If the UK were to leave the EU, the costs described above would not disappear overnight – much would depend on what path Britain took outside the EU. If the UK were to leave the EU and instead ‘become like Norway’ by joining the European Economic Area (EEA), [b] 93 out of these 100 costliest EU-derived regulations would remain in place at a cost of £31.4bn (94.3% of the total cost). [/b]This is because under EEA, many EU policy areas would continue to apply to the UK including financial services, social and employments laws, energy and climate change policies, and this is where the bulk of the regulatory cost stems from. [i][my point][/i]

Given that EEA membership comes without any formal voting powers in the EU institutions, the UK would lose its ability to both amend these regulations and shape new EU laws. [a trifling point 😉 ]

While the ‘Norway option’ does mean greater independence in certain areas – chiefly the repatriation of agricultural policy, regional policy, trade policy and justice and home affairs – overall, it would make little sense to leave one club only to join another with many of the same costly rules.

I do care what he says...

And he actually has done quite a lot given the Congressional opposition he has endured..., or at least some of it has happened on his watch.

Health Care, Cuba, moves towards Marriage quality, Drug legalisation, Financial policy. Gitmo is the major negative,

So - our both our major trading partners think we should stay. We'd have to wait 10 years to get a trade agreement with the US, and a Norway style agreement with the EU would lead to us having to pay as much as we do now and have open borders to EU citizens... And as we are still a manafacturing and trading nation...

And Boris is an opportunist untrustworthy but charismatic muppet.

I can only think of one pro-Brexit person I know personally who isn't one or more of Old, Xenophobic or a bit thick.

[i]I can only think of one pro-Brexit person I know personally who isn't one or more of Old, Xenophobic or a bit thick. [/i]

I don't know of anyone personally who is pro-Brexit, apart from one bloke I'm 'friends' with on FB - and tbh that is only for amusement at his daily 'rants', and he is definitely two of your three 🙂

I can only think of one pro-Brexit person I know personally who isn't one or more of Old, Xenophobic or a bit thick.

+1. Sadly they have been given the chance to f*ck up my kids lives (along with their own younger family members but are too thick/blinkered to realise that).

And Boris is an opportunist untrustworthy but charismatic muppet.

To think I liked him before this and have said hello to him when I have seen him cycling around the city. I wouldn't cross the street to p*ss on him if he was on fire now.

Describing people who want to vote for Brexit as thick and xenophobic is counterprouctive, there are prefectly valid arguments for Brexit as there were for independence for Scotland. However, where both movements have had difficulties is presenting what the world would look like afterwards - and this is because in both cases the relevant economies have become so intertwined with the other party that it is difficult to have a compelling forecast of what would happen. This gap in their prospectus will prove the undoing of the Brexiteers as it was for the Nats.

Anyone who write [url= http://capx.co/how-like-a-god-shakespeare-and-the-invention-of-the-world/ ]an article this good[/url] about Shakespeare is hardly stupid.

Back of the queue 😀 😀 😀

[i]The US is only negotiating one trade agreement at present. The ‘queue’ is not very long.

The US is currently negotiating one trade agreement. According to the Office of the United States Trade Representative, ‘The United States has completed negotiations of a regional, Asia-Pacific trade agreement, known as the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) Agreement and is in negotiations of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) with the European Union, with the objective of shaping a high-standard, broad-based regional pact’ (Office of the United States Trade Representative, 2016, link).[/i]

The US has agreed many trade agreements (20) with countries much smaller and certainly less wealthy than the UK and typically in around 2 years (1 year for Morocco, 2 for Australia and Chilie). The UK is a major export partner for rhe US with $120bn of goods and services representing 5.4% of US exports.

In all this time the US has not concluded an agreement with the EU ? Why is that ?

In all this time the US has not concluded an agreement with the EU ? Why is that ?

Because the EU is big enough and powerful enough that it doesn't have to roll over and agree to whatever the US wants?

Not sure if already posted but this makes interesting reading, trying to get some balance to the claim and counterclaim

FULLFACT.ORG "https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/leave_remain_the_facts_behind_the_claims.pdf"

Those above deliberately steriotyping Brexiters are making a very dangerous mistake if I may say so. At the Brexit meetings I have attended there have been significant numbers of young (late teens, eariy 20) volunteers. My local co-ordinator is a mid 30's tradesman. By steriotyping and underestimating your opponents in any election (or indeed any situation) is often a fatal error.

I would also add again that senior Labour figures such as Corbyn and McDonald have spent their political careers opposed to the EU - old maybe 😉 but not thick or xenophobic

@jimw thnaks for that, along with some other stw-ers I put a few quid their way to fund their Referendum work