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This may have been covered previously but just a general question, do you? Me? I couldn't gaf re the "special relationship"
Yes, of course. We can't rely on Asian economies driving us for much longer.
I care so little I didn't even start a thread about it
Just watching the news....
I think we would care a lot more if he had said "you'll be fine, don't worry about leaving".
Who?
Opinions are like holes, everyone has one
In this instance Obama is spot on and boris and co are so rattled they resorted to .....
I watched his Town Hall q&a this morning - would be good to have some inspiring politicians here.
I couldn't gaf re the "special relationship"
You do realise that whilst you personally may not be interested, such things are quite important to the economy on which you work so are actually quite important to you and your bank balance, don't you?
Anybody know what it's worth? Imports from USA and how much we export to them?
Does anyone care what Barrack says?
Middle aged set in their ways whiney mtbers, not so much
Idealistic young swing voters.. probably more so
compared to the alternatives, yes; consider other US presidents, consider other nations
The special relationship is a journalistic invention, and the nation as a whole is a pretty dangerous bag (arms distribution across the planet is a pretty oderous business that we unfortunately join in with), but I still think that at least he's more honest than some politicians.
Like it or not we make money from trading with the outside world (it's only really the trade with the outside world that actually brings money into the economy, the rest is debt based growth) so how the leader of the world's richest nation and one of our major trading partners see the situation is important.
Couldn't give a shit. He won't be relevant for much longer anyway so he can go forth and multiply!
I care, and only for the reason he's been a very inefficient US Precident.
would be good to have some inspiring politicians here.
Them few words are so wrong on so many levels
Whatever next mass political rallies where we can chant and applaude their greatness.
Ps there is no special relationship, we share a language, something many americans probably think is down to them anyway.
such things are quite important to the economy on which you work so are actually quite important to you and your bank balance, don't you
Bet my steel comes from China....
It's quite amusing , all we've heard from outies is how we can trade more with America once we leave the EU, all of a sudden POTUS is a douchebag, we don't need them damn Yanks... . 😳
And fwiw I like barrack. Always seems a pretty sound guy. Would actually put him on my "dinner party list" if for no other reason than to get to know him.
It might be more interesting to find out what the payoff was, or is going to be. What is the devious lying shitbag who runs our country going to give Obama in return for the US President spewing out these pro European statements?
billyboy - MemberIt might be more interesting to find out what the payoff was, or is going to be. What is the devious lying shitbag who runs our country going to give Obama in return for the US President spewing out these pro European statements?
Have you given any consideration to the possibility that it might be true?
I saw this posted on one of my Friends walls' on Faceache.
Typical Squaddie humour about it all..
Dear Mr Obama, shove your *F*** trade up your F*** arse. We weren't at the back of the queue when you needed us on operations, twice in Iraq, and then again in Afghanistan. I guess it's only a " special relationship " when it suits America. If you need help in future, you can always call on Germany, winners of so many wars, or Italy, but only if your already winning before you invite them, and of course, the mighty French, but give them some notice, so they can get their military production running at full strength, by putting their white flag factories onto three shifts. Good luck with that.
Signed
BRITAINOh, and just as a little P.S.
The last time you went to war without us, the Viet Cong handed you your arse on a plate
Thought it was apt.
I dont care but my daughter thinks he's our president and the "Leader of the free world" so it appears to matter.
Teetosugars you are aware that its not 1939 all over again and that we have no meaningful armed forces to speak of.
Ask the question in ten years and he will be regarded as a good president - just look at who is likely to replace him.
He is the principle representative of the worlds largest economy and a key ally of the UK. Why would anyone not GAF?
The special relationship.
They think we are special
We think it's a relationship
I think his thoughts on a great deal of things are relevant and well considered. As he is at the end of his term he can also be a little more free with his opinions and say what he thinks more rather than giving the correct political statement.
His views are more relevant than most of the people who think they have relevant views.
As President of the US yes I care what he has to say. I think he was spot on at yesterday's press conference when he said, as someone living in a democracy I would be keen to get every piece of information I could before making a big decision. He gave his view whuch we can see very clearly was that the UK should, in his opinion, do what is good for the US.
The UK and the US co-operate very closely across a range of subjects
We should care but at the same time he's a politician so had to be seen to not isolate any other friends and allies. From his stand point it's convenient for us to stay in. He doesn't want anything to rock the global economy as the US' economy us just as fragile as anyone's, he doesn't want anything upsetting Europe at a time when far right groups are popular and any fissures in the established relationships could be exploited by Putin. And he doesn't want to P off his other European allies like France and Germany. He's only got his own best interests at heart and did not make that statement as a caring and concerned friend. As many have pointed out, if the shoe was on the other foot and the US were having to accept rules and governance from Mexico or Canada then they he would be looking to exit ASAP.
From a trading perspective in the long term the US will become less important as will the EU as 80% of the worlds population allive in the developing world. We need to start sucking upto the Chinese, Indians, Africans etc. Big time. The question is are we better off doing that as part of the EU machine or by ourselves?
We need to start sucking upto the Chinese, Indians, Africans etc. Big time. The question is are we better off doing that as part of the EU machine or by ourselves?
And the part where when it comes down to negotiations to sort out these trade deals which has is more of a priority to China, India, Brazil etc. Sorting the eu one or the UK one. Who will have the better negotiating position, I don't see a solo UK being the ones doing the demanding. If they can be bothered at all.
But we're the 5th* largest economy in the world don't you know..
*it drops off after 2nd place real quick.
He is President of the US with a significant time to run and high approval ratings , he is a significant influence on the political party which in all likelihood is going to provide the next President . The US is still a significant major power and geography and resources mean it will remain so. At a time when Russia is more interventionist than it has been for years America has one of the largest and most effective Armies on the planet.
You would have to be pretty divorced from reality not to care what he thinks whether or not you like or agree with his opinions is a matter for you but to ignore them because you don't like them is plain silly.
More than what anyone on here says...yes.
Isn't he on a trip to sell TTIP?
In which case; of course he will be pushing that rhetoric.
So if he is telling the truth, and we will be at the back of the queue, then it's a good thing. The NHS sell off may be able to be stopped once the Tory's are removed.
The leader of the United States of America may be quite well informed in respect of a United States of Europe?
I think Obama could have been a great President but he turned out a bit of a lame duck due to not having a Congressional majority for most of his time in office - that meant most of what he did ended up badly watered down.
Is the US important to our economy? Ofc but will we cease trade with them if we leave Europe? Ofc not. Do we need a special trade agreement? Not really - if TTIP goes ahead if we left the EU then EU companies would have an advantage but I doubt it would cause much harm to our economy in the short-mid term. And given China's economy crashing in the longer term means we're all screwed anyway - who cares? :p
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/OTS.aspx
We are an important trade partner to German and French businesses.
The US also sells us alot.
I bet their politicians are privatly worrying themselves....
Well you'd hope so but one allows daily drone strikes that has collateral damage along with a multiple trillion national debt and another has just allowed over a million refugees into her country with no thought to solve about the reason behind the cause of all this people's misery.
The US has form for interfering. In the last 60yrs have they had a beneficial influence apart from Clinton/Balkans?
So if he is telling the truth, and we will be at the back of the queue, then it's a good thing. The NHS sell off may be able to be stopped once the Tory's ([i]sic)[/i] are removed.
You think those nice tories will not continue the sell-off if we Brexit and it's all the Americans forcing us to ? Oh dear...
The Viet Cong bit is such utter drivel, like we did such a great job in Afghan on numerous occasions.
I think if Obama had said I don't give a fig what you do it would of been bigger news.
What's scary is the number of otherwise sensible people (George Monbiot for example) who think that Brexit would mean we can get a better, fairer trade deal than TTIP, and see Obama's comments as a boost for the Leave campaign.
Won't happen. It'll be TTIP but worse, take it or leave it.
The US has form for interfering. In the last 60yrs have they had a beneficial influence apart from Clinton/Balkans?
Just wait till JHJ googles "Operation Gladio" 😀
The US has form for interfering. In the last 60yrs have they had a beneficial influence apart from Clinton/Balkans?
You don't believe that we are ever under threat from the Eastern Block?
flap_jack - MemberYou think those nice tories will not continue the sell-off if we Brexit and it's all the Americans forcing us to ? Oh dear...
The Torys will be out of government at next election. Sure they will sell off as much NHS as they can in that time. But if the TTIP is taken off the table, and were back of the queue to have it ... then it gives more time for the public to waken up to TTIP, and have a chance to vote for a party against it.
At the moment; not many really know what it is about. A friend of mine yesterday even suggested it was just a conspiracy theory ... just like the Tory`s pushing the NHS towards privatisation.
Anybody know what it's worth? Imports from USA and how much we export to them?
http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/
Regarding that Squaddie quote, which clearly has been on the rounds of a number of forums, somewhere else this was written in reply:
"H[i]ow's that for the entire discussion in a nutshell!. Ignorance and mindlessly emotive twaddle all concentrated into a neat package!. The President of the sole remaining superpower on the planet notes that his nations trade interests would favour the 'large' multinational trading block that is Europe over a single nation entity that would be the UK and that is a surprising statement?. Surprising to the extent that would, somehow, justify suspending our core internationalist stance and refusing to participate in important military interventions out of some kind of pre-pubescent tantrum?
The description of the French, Italians, Germans etc being what this drills down to. Simple xenophobia. Don't like Johnny Foreigne[/i]r"
The person who originally posted the squaddie comment said 'most people in the UK would agree with it'
Not true of most of the people I know
Given the various bits of sabre-rattling going on with Russia, China (South China Sea) and N Korea, personally I'd rather keep our relationship with the only remaining superpower and the largest military spender on the planet and the major partner in Nato, on an even keel...
This is not a good time to damage relationships with any major allies - although no time would be a good time IMO.
Biggest problem with the whole Brexit debate is it's largely toddlers shouting childish insults at each other... which is a pretty poor way of persuading us to make such a major decision.
For my money, his intervention and the points he made were a good strategy by the Remain camp and will go a long way to persuading the undecided to stay in - he's a well-respected and neutral party, even if he will be gone by the time we would be exiting...
Boris resorting to referring to his racial heritage has given me pause for thought about Boris - that's pretty nasty politics - far enough right to be touching on Fascism and National Front type rhetoric - and I really don't want to support anyone with that kind of thinking.
[i]Teetosugars you are aware that its not 1939 all over again and that we have no meaningful armed forces to speak of. [/i]
Yep, 'cos back then we still had the worlds largest navy along with the industrial capacity to be second to the US in war-output for the rest of WW2.
I think his opinion is more considered than most people spouting on the subject, who just seem to think Brexit will miraculously solve all the world's problems and we'll suddenly be transported to full employment, a booming economy and the return of all of the British Empire etc
Teetosugars you are aware that its not 1939 all over again and that we have no meaningful armed forces to speak of
That's odd, the 12 years I spent in the Army certinanly were are quite 'meaningful'.
And I'm pretty sure that most that have served would say the same?
I think his opinion is more considered than most people spouting on the subject, who just seem to think Brexit will miraculously solve all the world's problems and we'll suddenly be transported to full employment, a booming economy and the return of all of the [s]British Empire[/s] immigrants etc
FIFY
I think his opinion is more considered than most people spouting on the subject, who just seem to think Brexit will miraculously solve all the world's problems and we'll suddenly be transported to full employment, a booming economy and the return of all of the British Empire etc
This.
When the whole global economy is on extremely shaky ground/drowning in an unprecedented amount of debt, partnership and interdependence is a far more sensible strategy than 'proudly going alone'. If a Brexit leads to exits of other EU countries and collapse of the EU then we'll be starting off a chain of events which tips the global economy right over the edge.
Me? I couldn't gaf re the "special relationship"
Jesus, each time it sinks a little lower.
this is not something to be broadcasting!
I'll listen to him (but might not be swayed by his opinion) as I think he carries more intelligence, gravitas and charisma than our political leaders in the UK.
I'll listen to him (but might not be swayed by his opinion) as I think he carries more intelligence, gravitas and charisma than our political leaders in the UK.
^^^ that is why the out campaign has gone apoplectic.
He's certainly worth listening to the opinion of.
As for the "special relationship", it's bullshit, always has been whoever was President or whoever was PM. Ever heard a President make a reference to it, unless he's talking to a room full of Brits?! We're like some sad bit on the side, the US says we special and one day we'll be together, but they don't mean it.
International relations is a ruthless, ruthless business with no room for sentiment, if you're going to be in any relationship, it's better to be the biggest, strongest member of it - in the EU were near the top of the tree, in the "special relationship" we're the statue and the US is the pigeon.
I think his opinion is more considered than most people spouting on the subject, who just seem to think Brexit will miraculously solve all the world's problems and we'll suddenly be transported to full employment, a booming economy and the return of all of the British Empire etc
Brexit certainly won't solve the world's problems, it certainly won't fix the EU's fatal weaknesses, but it will allow the UK to be in control and to adapt to changing circumstances as best suits us.
I bet if he said, on his last day as prezz "Shamon y'all, **** it, Aahma launchin' all de nukes!" you'd care then.
If Hillary has endorsed what he has said where are the outist to dismiss that - none of the republican candidates has said anything to refute what has been said and they really won't give a s*** about the UK.
it will allow the UK to be in control
Of what?
Better to be in a team than on your own, imo. Haven't you seen Cars?
it will allow the UK to be in control and to adapt to changing circumstances as best suits us.
Seems like a perfect argument for Scottish independence.
Loads of 'em, great aren't they, which one should I get? (that adequately reflects my managerial stautus and yet still denotes an air of dangerous, playful individualism through moderately enhanced performance and a sticker)?
but it will allow the UK to be in control
In control of what? Worse H&S legislation? Poorer worker's rights? That's what the Brexiters want, they don't want to create a happier, better country for all, they want to be able to screw everyone else more without pesky EU intervention.
It's a childish, foot-stamping attitude - you're not doing everything my way so I'm going home.
Seems like a perfect argument for Scottish independence.
Everyone I know who voted No in the Indyref says that they'd change their minds if the UK voted to leave the EU. Okay, that's only a sample of a dozen people or so, but still.
you're not doing everything my way so I'm going home
You've changed your tune!
It's a childish, foot-stamping attitude - you're not doing everything my way so I'm going home.
sounds remarkably like....oh, no forget it 😉
From what? I've always been pro-EU.
Ah, you're trying to equate Scottish independence from the UK with UK independence from the EU.
Reality is a lot more complex and nuanced than simple comparisons like that.
What's hilarious is listening to the very same people who moan about unelected EU bureaucrats meddling in our affairs then going weak at the knees when an unelected monarch waves at them.
Toadying to the Queen one minute, complaining about undemocratic EU institutions the next.
I was pulling your leg Ben - (but yes, I was referring indirectly to behaviour re independence!)
The interesting (not in a good way) comparison is the way the Project Fear playbook is being used again. No-one's pushing a positive case for staying in the EU, it's all about trade barriers, and having to have visas.
That nearly failed in the Indyref, and there's not a massive lead to squander this time around.
No one?
Turn the radio on? Read the papers....plenty of positives.
In contrast, Brexit is the one that requires exaggerated claims and BS to push and pull people to accept their folly. So today, let us start by lying about the UK's cost of membership and then we will move on to all those dirty Eastern Europeans and darkies who only come here to use our benefits, dont you know....
...trouble is (like much of Salmon's BS) people believe this stuff. All of the Brexiters that I know spout immigration tosh as their opening gambit. Like creationists, they seem to have lost all capacity for critical thought.
I've not see the positive side so much - but hopefully it is pushed more to make a difference.
How much were you hoping the positive side was pushed 2 years ago?
Scottish independence: we can go it alone!
Brexit: unity is best!
You have to be aware of the comedy aspect here 🙂
Candy floss and pipe dreams can be made to sound quite positive ATG - you know, lower taxes, higher spending, free drinks on Thursday.....
Not blatantly lying two years ago would have been nice.
Lots of BAE shipyard workers feeling betrayed at the moment. Along with the steel workers, the HMRC workers, the oil workers,...
They could have listed to us on here - we explained ad nauseam why its was all a lot of hokus pokus 😉
Scottish independence: we can go it alone!Brexit: unity is best!
I said two years ago on the referendum night TV show that one of my biggest fears was that the UK would pull us out of the EU against our wishes, and that Scottish independence was the only way to guarantee we'd stay in the EU.
I hate being right.
Have more faith Ben, your fellow Scots saw sense in the end, and collectively the citizens of the UK will do the same.
You have nothing to hate 😉