[Closed] Does advertising work?

Oh. My. Word.

This is just TJ baiting, isn't it?

This is just TJ baiting, isn’t it?

It's the real thing.

I'm loving it

Think about all the big companies spending millions on it. Don't you think that at least one exec in their king history would have had the idea to sit down and actually analyse wether or not it was worth spending all that money?

Answer: of course they do, they do it all the time. They have whole departments dedicated to analysing exactly what works and what doesn't and how much return they get on their investment in different ad channels.

Nah,they just do it for the lols

There are adverts?

Nice catch Cap'n.
I was ready to pounce

McDonalds is really good at running year round campaigns to draw people in, new menu items or even the monopoly all keep them front and centre. Cant recall the last coca cola advert I saw though, maybe during football worldcups and olympics? then the pesky xmas one too!

This is just TJ baiting, isn’t it?

To the MAXX!

It absolutely does work - some of the increases in profits (ROI) big businesses get when changing advertising approach can be staggering.

Look at Warburtons....
Warburtons, founded in Bolton in 1876, made profits of £11.3m in the year to September 2019, reversing a £6.6m loss the year before.
( https://www.prolificnorth.co.uk/news/marketing-services-news/2020/07/warburtons-pays-ps15m-dividends-following-success-de-niro-ad)

Of course it can be much more nuanced than that in reality as not every advert does the same thing to the same people (in desired response) and some products are in much more crowded spaces than others.

Also advertising can be for lots of different reasons such as to sell a new product, promote a discount or simply for maintaining product recognition and ensuring customer loyalty.

Would their sales suffer if they stopped all advertising for a year and gave the savings to charity

Probably a loss of sales. If they kept the money they saved as profit, that is a more interesting question.

What do you call advertising though?

In the case of Coke, its a bright red bottle in the supermarket, and a big logo on the tap in the pub, anybody who has ever consumed a carbonated drink knows what it is, and has probably tried it (and therefore formed their opinion on whether they like it or not). Why does someone take a coke rather than a pepsi when they buy their meal deal, why coke rather than lime and soda when they are designated driver?

In the case of McDonalds, is a massive yellow M you can see from the motorway. It's a name synonymous with fast food (which is a good thing for their potential customers)

Every little [bit of advertising] helps.

There's some claim that you need to see a brand 7 times in different contexts in order to gain familiarity with it and this familiarity would be likely to make you choose that brand over other less familiar brands selling a similar product.

Or McDonalds? Do they need to spend millions on TV, newspaper and online adverts to maintain their customer base?

They're contractually obliged to do so. All Maccy D's are franchises. On taking a franchise out you are guaranteed X squillion quid a year in advertising and marketing support, which means you don't have to worry about it as its all taken care of for you.

That's a massive plus point for anyone running a business.

Speaking of which....

Just check out how much press coverage this got today

https://twitter.com/JOE_co_uk/status/1325735363189633025?s=20

And rightfully so! Who doesn't want a double big mac? 😀

All Maccy D’s are franchises

I'm pretty sure they aren't, i think its about 75% franchises.

I guess with MacDonalds and Coke you have loads of options with the exception of vending machine you are normally confronted with a variety of softdrinks they have to try and make sure the majority of the time you puck theirs to keep profits high.

And rightfully so! Who doesn’t want a double big mac? 😀

Me. They envariably get the ratios wrong with these doublers, same with the double quarter pounder. Not as good as two quarter pounders.

I agree with you about the Double Quarter Pounder.

Triple cheeseburgers, on the other hand....

😀

And rightfully so! Who doesn’t want a double big mac? 😀

Me. I truly detest their revolting food

I can basically print money by advertising HebTroCo smartly on Facebook. The amount I spend directly relates to sales it will generate. I dial it up and down depending on how much we want to sell.

Ask the bike co’s that don’t get reviewed because they don’t spend on advertising.

Much of the news you consume today is as a result of PR / advertising spend.

If a co stopped bidding on keywords their competitors would realise and take their sales on the back on an algorithm... ...without any human interaction.

Small lifestyle co doesn’t need to advertise though...

I can basically print money by advertising HebTroCo smartly on Facebook. The amount I spend directly relates to sales it will generate. I dial it up and down depending on how much we want to sell.

A couple of friends do the same, work quietens a bit, so they pay FB some money, within a few days they're fully loaded again with new customers..

Would their sales suffer if they stopped all advertising for a year and gave the savings to charity

If ALL brands did it? I think that established brands would begin to dominate and smaller brands would disappear because fewer and fewer people would have heard of them.

If ALL brands did it? I think that established brands would begin to dominate and smaller brands would disappear because fewer and fewer people would have heard of them.

That's why I asked about big, established brands and not new companies or new products. Coca Cola for instance don't release a new drink every 6 months in the same way Samsung release a new range of updated phones

Coca Cola for instance don’t release a new drink every 6 months

But they are locked in an eternal battle with Pepsi etc for market share.....

I can basically print money by advertising HebTroCo smartly on Facebook.

..or by sponsoring confession related Twitter accounts?

..or by sponsoring confession related Twitter accounts?

That’s because FB is paying so well we can afford to support things that we like and bring new people in. Though are much less effective in terms of ROI. Nice though!

Ask the bike co’s that don’t get reviewed because they don’t spend on advertising.

out of interest, has that ever been proved? the MBUK I have here has no adverts from any bike companies that have a bike in for review.

I can basically print money by advertising HebTroCo smartly on Facebook. The amount I spend directly relates to sales it will generate. I dial it up and down depending on how much we want to sell.

This is sarcasm right? Or is it just stealth marketing?

I advertised a few times on FB and got precisely nowt from it.

Facebook advertising is brilliant because you can target it so precisely, then analyze your targetting and hone it further

I know they say you can do that, but I found from a bit of digging their targeting wasn't anywhere near as good as claimed. Given how scummy/scammy they are as a company it doesn't really surprise me.

But they are locked in an eternal battle with Pepsi etc for market share…..

That's an interesting one...
It's like an automatic conversation whilst in any fine artisan eatery..

Litteraly anywhere:
Discerning gentleman: "I say, good man, I should very much like a double Kracken and coke"
Barkeep: Is Pepsi ok?"
Discerning gentleman: "yeh, whatever"

How have Pepsi managed to stitch that part of the market up?

Regarding FB ads, they always seem to be for some kind of scam product (see loads of those!) or if it's a local business I assume they're desperately in need of work, therefore can't actually be that good!! Never seen anything that makes me want to buy it/use them (never been hit with a HebCoTro one though, obviously not in the target demo 😎)

if it’s a local business I assume they’re in need of work, therefore can’t actually be that good!

Probably the opposite. The best advice anyone ever gave me on the score was 'when you're really really busy, that's when you need to be looking for more work'. I'm stacked out with work at the moment but I'm running two different Facebook adverts

The best advice anyone ever gave me on the score was ‘when you’re really really busy, that’s when you need to be looking for more work’

Very possibly.

It's true though

I scrunch my hand up and look through a narrow gap to only see the 'Skip Ads' icon on YouTube. That way they haven't got to me. I find adverts intrusive and unwanted and do anything to avoid them.

Does the reverse apply binners? So because I currently have no work, this is the time when I shouldn't be looking for work?

Cos that's the approach I'm taking 😛

Facebook advertising is brilliant because you can target it so precisely, then analyze your targetting and hone it further

You are Dom Cum and ICM£5

Advertising clearly works 99.9% of the time or companies wouldn’t spend time and resource on it. I like to think I’ve managed to zone it out over the years though. Most things I purchase are as a result of asking endless questions on here or finding user and professional reviews for the product(s) I’m looking at.

I was watching loops of Lost in Vegas and Honest Trailers on YouTube last night and honestly can’t recall what any of the adverts inbetween were actually for.

A couple of friends do the same, work quietens a bit, so they pay FB some money, within a few days they’re fully loaded again with new customers..

Plenty of mugs out there; aways another fool to replace the last one.

thing is, if the big companies didn't pay for all the adverts, you wouldn't get whatever you're seeing the adverts on (STW, a newspaper, TV) for the same price. You'd have to pay (or pay a lot more) for the content.

Things like coke work by constantly re-enforcing their brand message and values in your subconcious. In the summer they show ice cold coke on a hot summers day, looking all refreshing, an image which lodges in your brain. Then, when you're hot, and you nip to the shop and you're standing in front of the fridge things, you're more likely to buy coke then pepsi.

What I'm not so sure on is the brands who spend money sponsering sporting events (ie, ford having a ford banner at the side of some premiership match). Sure - there will be positive connotations etched in for some fans, but surely just as many will have seen their side take a pounding and get minor revulsion every time they see the logo again?

even more so those obscure brands, like AIA sponsoring footy teams - can you even buy anything from them retail?

professional reviews for the product(s) I’m looking at.

I expect that advertising budget is being used very effectively then..

My thoughts on this are that adverts for Coke and McDonalds etc are not necessarily to introduce you to the brand since most people already know of them (the point the op was making) but more to make you think "I could eat a big Mac right now" or "I fancy a coke". They are increasing sales that way even if it is just making you drink the stuff in the fridge and therefore having to buy more quicker.

The ones that make me wonder are big global business to business brand advertising on TV. Something the everyday consumer isn't going to actually buy. BASF used to do it and I recently saw an Adobe advert. I just can't see many People sitting watch TV then suddenly thinking, you know what I way after a graphics programme and that advert has convinced me to go for Photoshop.

I expect that advertising budget is being used very effectively then..

Not really because I don’t rely solely on them. It’s them plus user reviews and research. Anybody that buys anything based purely off an advert or professional review is a marketeers wet dream.

5lab

What I’m not so sure on is the brands who spend money sponsering sporting events (ie, ford having a ford banner at the side of some premiership match). Sure – there will be positive connotations etched in for some fans, but surely just as many will have seen their side take a pounding and get minor revulsion every time they see the logo again?

Worth noting advertising is part of a wider Marketing strategy, That strategy will determine how an advertising campaign is commissioned.

Sponsorship can be implemented with very different objectives, but even when they have the same objective, because you're dealing with brands, the performance can differ regardless.

Aon found their sponsorship of Man Utd had a positive effect, Investec found their sponsorship of Tottenham to have much less effect, they both had the same goal(s) (excuse the pun) but for various reasons they had differing results.

Doesn’t a server just randomly offer up adverts these days ad hoc completely at random?

I know they say you can do that, but I found from a bit of digging their targeting wasn’t anywhere near as good as claimed. Given how scummy/scammy they are as a company it doesn’t really surprise me.

You have to use it right. I use lookalike audiences a lot, then filtered through various exlusions to get rid of the dickheads.

Or just throw ads for ponchos at women age 35-59 who like Gin. That works well.

When I worked in Al Khobbar in Saudi everyone used to go to the Sahara burger bar for a Double Double and fries to go - and they didn't advertise.

On BBC, something to look forward to "How artificial intelligence may be making you buy things"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54522442

Sponsorship and advertising are very different things.

Sponsorship is more about brand recognition and often a company will get things in return.

Say sponsoring man utd. You get lots of exposure but for sure you also get things like corporate days for clients and staff rewards.

You take a client to the man u/chelsea game on full hospitality you would expect business back!

Not really because I don’t rely solely on them. It’s them plus user reviews and research. Anybody that buys anything based purely off an advert or professional review is a marketeers wet dream.

But you still react to adverts - yes you may still research and ultimately choose a brand or product that aligns with your personality but by advertising, the brand owners do what they can to make you see them even though ultimately you may choose another. But they don’t care, they want market share and profit, not necessarily total market dominance.

If it wasn’t working, it wouldn’t be everywhere. But it is, so it is

Or just throw ads for ponchos at women age 35-59 who like Gin. That works well.

Evidently it did as you know a group I’m on Facebook that fits a majority of that audience were targeted by it.

Things like coke work by constantly re-enforcing their brand message and values in your subconcious. In the summer they show ice cold coke on a hot summers day, looking all refreshing, an image which lodges in your brain. Then, when you’re hot, and you nip to the shop and you’re standing in front of the fridge things, you’re more likely to buy coke then pepsi.

The 80s First Time Advert is indelibly printed on my subconscious after seeing it every time we went to the cinema. All those cool American kids looked amazing when I was about 12....

There are adverts?

the stealth Greggs ones on here are really hard to screen out.

Think about all the big companies spending millions on it. Don’t you think that at least one exec in their king history would have had the idea to sit down and actually analyse wether or not it was worth spending all that money?

Answer: of course they do, they do it all the time. They have whole departments dedicated to analysing exactly what works and what doesn’t and how much return they get on their investment in different ad channels.

But these departments are invested in proving their value and quite possibly in keeping a job year round. To take seasonal examples like selling XMAS trees or fireworks (if only) or ferrero rocher?

To use the two examples in the OP I have to speculate that if Pepsi and Burgery King didn't advertise and Coke and McDo also just stopped would it change their sales significantly compared to what they spend?

In other words is their advertising not at least driven by their main rivals?
I'm reminded of the Nescafe Gold Blend ads that were very expensive BUT successful apparently at driving sales but it turned out there main "rival" was Nescafe regular.... so the same company then spent more on trying to steal back sales from itself?

I can basically print money by advertising HebTroCo smartly on Facebook. The amount I spend directly relates to sales it will generate. I dial it up and down depending on how much we want to sell.

With all due respect you're not Coke or McDo....
From a budget POV I actually checked it out and learned it existed so that post that cost nowt but your time may work.

Speaking personally though if I'd seen it on FB I'd have just dismissed it but if I'd actually noticed it I'd have added it to the list of companies I'd rather avoid.

Mentally I regard anything on FB as a possible/probable scam.... I'm probably wrong most of the time but life's too short.

The ones that make me wonder are big global business to business brand advertising on TV.

IBM did a TV campaign 15 odd years ago, for servers and blades, one of the cabinets in the campaign (but not in the catalogue) had a Perspex shark fin on top. Resellers were screaming at IBM to send a load of the fins out, as that is what customers were asking for. As in ‘I want the one with the fin!’

To use the two examples in the OP I have to speculate that if Pepsi and Burgery King didn’t advertise and Coke and McDo also just stopped would it change their sales significantly compared to what they spend?

No. Look at the tobacco industry, around the time advertising was banned, they all became more profitable as the loss in revenue was offset by the massive reduction in advertising spend. Not a great long term strategy though.

Most things I purchase are as a result of asking endless questions on here or finding user and professional reviews for the product(s) I’m looking at.

Right - but when you ask questions on here, why do we answer the way we do? Most of the time it's 'well I bought X and it's great'. People are generally predisposed to like the shiny new expensive thing they just spent money on (to help them feel better about the expense), so why did they buy it in the first place? Advertising has an effect even *after* someone buys something. It helps cement a positive view of the thing so they might go on to recommend it to someone else. Same for the 'reviews' that people post.

Sponsorship is more about brand recognition

This. When I went shopping for cars, I had to make a shortlist because there are just too many choices. I test drove Ford, VW and Honda. So the question Toyota are asking is: why did I shortlist those three and not Toyota?

Frequently people just pick three or four off the top of their head. And it's the top of peoples heads where brands want to be, and that's where brand recognition through sponsorship comes in. For example, if I wanted a manly shampoo, I'd probably think of Dove for Men or maybe Alpecin. They both sponsored sporting events I've watched.

I see how my 4 year old reacts to advertising. It's frightening. As adults we don't tend to react with the same overt Wow! but it (advertising) hits the same buttons we are just muted where as a year old is open and honest.

Advertising works differently on adults because we have more experience. For kids, most stuff is new.

PS get Netflix - no ads! Our kids hardly see ads for toys and stuff, and it's great.

Molgrips

People are generally predisposed to like the shiny new expensive thing they just spent money on (to help them feel better about the expense), so why did they buy it in the first place?

Well... bikes and maybe cars or even food or drink?

Frequently people just pick three or four off the top of their head. And it’s the top of peoples heads where brands want to be, and that’s where brand recognition through sponsorship comes in. For example, if I wanted a manly shampoo, I’d probably think of Dove for Men or maybe Alpecin. They both sponsored sporting events I’ve watched.

See I just don't get this... shampoo is just shampoo?
I couldn't even tell you what shampoo I have without checking as it's just whatever was cheapest (and doesn't contain any wheat or oats). If I'm in a rush or don't have my glasses I'll probably just choose one I've had before simply to avoid allergens or the one with the shortest list of ingredients.

If I run out of shampoo I'll just use soap anyway...
I've heard of both of those brands but have no idea what they'd look like.

On the other hand I'd probably be more influenced by advertising for a shower. We have and water and 4.5bar so I need to research electric showers and that's easier starting with the "short list". [In reality I tend to ring my mate but otherwise]

See I just don’t get this… shampoo is just shampoo?

To you, yes. That's why supermarkets make own-brand shampoo and sell it for less - for people like you.

Advertising works differently on adults because we have more experience. For kids, most stuff is new.

I think its under lying the same switches but the advertising just takes different routes to flick them.

PS get Netflix – no ads! Our kids hardly see ads for toys and stuff, and it’s great.

They also don't do much in the way of advertising their shows, which really annoys my brother as his job is basically adverts / trailers for TV shows! Streaming has collapsed the market for such work as they just don't do anywhere near as much as traditional on-air channels do.

To you, yes. That’s why supermarkets make own-brand shampoo and sell it for less – for people like you

Even that stuff will have had teams of marketeers working on the design, shape, colour of the product and shelf positioning etc...

A great book on the subject is

https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-hidden-persuaders/vance-packard/9780978843106

Marketing for things like McDonalds and Coke aren't targeting new customers with the majority of their adverts, it's subliminal messaging to those who're already susceptible. A certain type of smartly targeted advert will be created for a new product aimed at a new customer, the rest is just maintenance/revenue increase from an existing base.

@brant - does the majority of your marketing derived sales from facebook come from new customers, repeat customers and/or friends of existing customers? Can you get the data that shows the links?

To you, yes. That’s why supermarkets make own-brand shampoo and sell it for less – for people like you.

As far as I know though I don't remember seeing an advert for home brand shampoo or paracetamol (etc. etc.).. but presumably enough people buy them without ??

As a rule of thumb I just assume if a brand wants to charge more then they not only charge more but then have to spend extra on advertising so its a double hit and if you buy that brand you are quite probably paying to be deceived. ["in tests 9/10 ...."] with some (at least in the UK but not US) disclaimer that the sample was only 40 customers who even responded and they were paid/bribed to.

If you look at tightly controlled products such as medicines you can even check they came off the same production line yet they are 5-6 times the price.

I like a shiny bike like most of us... but that's got some "value" other than being put in a cupboard or shower. I'm struggling to see how someone derives value/pleasure etc. from buying a brand of paracetemol at 5-6x the price.

I’m struggling to see how someone derives value/pleasure etc. from buying a brand of paracetemol at 5-6x the price.

On the other hand, virtue signalling on a forum can give you an immense amount of pleasure, can't it? 🙂

It's worth noting that marketing and advertising aren't the same thing. So you proudly buy own-brand shampoo, say - but who do you think makes it? Asda don't. So a shampoo company is still getting your cash one way or the other.

@brant – does the majority of your marketing derived sales from facebook come from new customers, repeat customers and/or friends of existing customers? Can you get the data that shows the links?

Fb ads mostly targeting new customers.
Organic fb and mailchimp gets existing customers back in the loop with new product launches and restocks which has been our push this year. So fairly different from Coke.

See I just don’t get this… shampoo is just shampoo?

To you, yes. That’s why supermarkets make own-brand shampoo and sell it for less – for people like you.

This is going in exactly the same trajectory as the original TJ post when he flatly refused to accept an argument based around buying habits of washing up liquid 🙂

I’m struggling to see how someone derives value/pleasure etc. from buying a brand of paracetemol at 5-6x the price.

But the advertising for premium pain killers doesn't tell yhe consumer they will get value or pleasure, rather that they will get FAST RESULTS, straight at the TARGET OF PAIN. FAST!

(BTW, I always buy the cheap pain killers on the bottom shelf at the supermarket, hidden away to make them harder to find over their more expensive equivalents)...

There was a comedian, I forget who, who did a bit on adverts for thrush treatment, not understanding who they were aiming at. Was it the 'that looks like a good product, I will seek it out next time I go shopping' crowd, or the people sat there itching away desperate for someone to release a product to cure them, but not enough to go to a doctor...

They made it sound funnier than I have, obvs.

molgrips

On the other hand, virtue signalling on a forum can give you an immense amount of pleasure, can’t it? 🙂

It’s worth noting that marketing and advertising aren’t the same thing. So you proudly buy own-brand shampoo, say – but who do you think makes it? Asda don’t. So a shampoo company is still getting your cash one way or the other.

It's just a simple spend less on shampoo and more on bike stuff. (Or whatever else gives anyone pleasure be it collecting train numbers or stamps or buying cool tools)

marketing and advertising aren’t the same thing

I'm not disagreeing... hence why "basics, economy" etc. grab my attention on the shelves.
I call that marketing not advertising though .... and it's just got to get me to buy the Asda one when I'm in Asda instead of waiting till I get to Tesco or wherever that might be 5p cheaper or not.
If you want to bring up virtue signalling then save the money and buy a sandwich for the homeless outside or pay for them to get a bed for the night.

jondoh

But the advertising for premium pain killers doesn’t tell yhe consumer they will get value or pleasure, rather that they will get FAST RESULTS, straight at the TARGET OF PAIN. FAST!

(BTW, I always buy the cheap pain killers on the bottom shelf at the supermarket, hidden away to make them harder to find over their more expensive equivalents)…

Right ... so this is what struck me once in the US.
Some brand of tylenol was claiming the competition had a bunch of unpleasant side effects.. which of course are simply the generic side effects of tylenol/paracetomol...

This struck me as particularly nasty (given the potential for death) as it's implying whatever the brand was doesn't ....

but who do you think makes it? Asda don’t. So a shampoo company is still getting your cash one way or the other.

Why do I care? Principally I only care about cost/convenience... my assumption is "a shampoo company make it" but why would I pay more... and subsidiary to that why would I pay EVEN more to have it advertised.

Right … so this is what struck me once in the US.
Some brand of tylenol was claiming the competition had a bunch of unpleasant side effects.. which of course are simply the generic side effects of tylenol/paracetomol…

This struck me as particularly nasty (given the potential for death) as it’s implying whatever the brand was doesn’t ….

Not sure what your point is here? Are you saying they advertised (falsely)? that the competitor product was dangerous and that people should buy their product instead?

Not sure what your point is here? Are you saying they advertised (falsely)? that the competitor product was dangerous and that people should buy their product instead?

No they advertised truthfully the competitor brands were dangerous... they just failed to mention theirs was exactly the same product and just as dangerous.

If this is "our shampoo stings your eyes less" it's maybe not important... if the product is likely to shut down your kidneys and liver then I'd say that omission is shocking.

It's perhaps like the injecting bleach vs whatever .... did Trump say bleach? (Farage says not and argues it's important) or does it matter if the end product is some stupid/trusting people drinking or injecting household disinfectants?

Right … so this is what struck me once in the US.

They US has a lot of 'attack ads', where the ad is principally attacking a competitor rather than promoting something. Just seems to be a cultural thing (1st amendment related).

See I just don’t get this… shampoo is just shampoo?

Have you not been paying attention to 'the science bit'?

You should do

Because you're worth it

footflaps

They US has a lot of ‘attack ads’, where the ad is principally attacking a competitor rather than promoting something. Just seems to be a cultural thing (1st amendment related).

Oh, agreed....It's just the first shocking example I remember.
I guess the thing is Americans don't notice because they became so used to them?

However I think perhaps what it did was make me more aware of our own cultural things in advertising and how deceptive they are so I just assume the claims are false or deceptive.

Like 9/10 cats or some percent of readers etc. always seem to have some caveat... and if you can be bothered to look into then "based on a sample of 47 responses" which then goes to "who were responding to be put into our prize draw"... TBH I respond better to "Value shampoo, its cheap and it washes your hair"

Have you not been paying attention to ‘the science bit’?

You should do

Because you’re worth it

LOL, yep and equally proceramide something must be good... sounds very sciency...

Just going to mention HebTroCo here to see if I suddenly get ads.

Adverts put me off things.online I think they are a scam and never click on them.if it's a user posting a deal on here that's different.i like to search and research things so I prefer seo online

Very trusting of you to assume all users on here are (a) human and (b) entirely independent

I'm also looking at you, Facebook of the 50% bot accounts.