[Closed] Do you think Christmas has lost its traditional meaning?

It's what YOU make of it. Don't worry about what others are stressing about.

it looks like its Christianity roots

never had any religous meaning to me or my family bit everything is more commercial than it was when we were younger

I am sure if you care about christ and all that its still that for you [ and that meaning]. Personally I dont really do either version of Christmas and prefer the solstice. How other people celebrate it has no bearing on me

PS we used to wait till december to discuss this issue

I'd not noticed.

It's not a holiday, it's Christmas.....Jesus etc

Holiday... Holyday.... Holy day.

Its literally a holiday.

If you believe that guff.

****. Are they doing it this year again?

A hedonistic midwinter orgy? Nope still very much what it always was. Despite the attempted rebranding by a death cult.

🙂

As Jamie said, it's what you make of it. If you don't want to go mad buying the latest and greatest gadgets, then don't. If you don't want to go shopping on xmas day, then don't. If you want to go blaming it all on some invisible sky wizard with genocidal tendencies, then please go right ahead.

For me, it's become a time to decompress for a few days: Chill, hang with friends and family, and stuff my face (I'm usually fairly careful with what I eat).

It is totally what you make of it.

Christmas this year our family are having a family food festival, where we all make something, all bring drink and just eat, spend time together and play board games. May be go for a walk with the dogs. We aren't a religious family, we also don't buy in to the consumerism of it all. We just see it as a time to get together and spend time as a family. That is the most important thing to us.

Presents can be easily bought, but in this ever manic world, our time is far more important. So we give that.

Oh dear. Who wants to tell him?

🙂

Love it and enjoy it.
For me as much as anything it's a great time to be around people you care about without the pressures of work and life in general.
This year we've got 4 days in Wales pre Christmas at a randomly booked cottage, black rock sands beach on Christmas eve with loads of other outdoor stuff chucked in hopefully, back home and off to mum's for Christmas day with stop over, outlaws for boxing day and the 27th, meet up with buddies for a ride and post ride beer sesh on the 29th then to top it all my best bud is back from oz for the first time in 3 years to hack round a golf course as tradition states then party at ours ny eve.
Time with the people i/we care about. As for the pressies they're an added bonus...

what's the phrase?..... something something Sherlock!

eat drink and be merry? sounds good to me. Who's got the chocolates?
jesus.. who? never heard of him, sounds foreign to me. *BURP*

Chose which altar you want to worship

Church altar
Altar of gluttony
Altar of consumerism

Your choice- your meaning

It's what 'you' make of it, like others have said. I'm sure some other religious 'celebrations' are over marketed in other countries too.

One of the local 'councils near work has called the Christmas light switch on as a 'Winter Light Switch on', and even the Community Christmas meal is a "winter meal". FFS !

This is the local council going mad, as just about every religion lives in this town, and we all celebrate 'other' annual celebrations too, Eid, Ramadam, Diwali, Chinese New Year, Easter..etc. etc...

I went to Manchester's Christmas Light Switch on a few weeks ago, it was full of just about every religion enjoying the evening.

So, it's about what you make of it -we don't do the latest stuff, folk appreciate hand made things (my wife and daughter have been making lovely gifts). It's not about money and spend.

Something better than a plug in 12v de-icer would be fine - tried it once last year just to test before it went in the bin - you start car, plug in de-icer, then hover this small element over the screen inch by inch until it defrosts in about 30 minutes, then try the next window. Binned it - warm water in a jug works better.

Its about celebrating all religions at the appropriate time of the year.

Do you think Christmas has lost its traditional meaning?

I am one of them so I wouldn't celebrate it in it's traditional sense, however I hate what it has largely become so I mainly do this bit.

an excuse to catch up with family etc?

Schools candlight carols this week. Looking forward to that

Pagan festival gets taken over by Christians then gets taken over by commercialism, who'd a thought it...

Carol shouting in our fav pub Xmas Eve 😀

I'm as atheist as they come, but I enjoy Christmas. I like the tradition of it and people do seem a bit more jolly and friendly. And its a week off work which can never be sniffed at, and i'm partial to banging out a carol or two when i've had enough wine - the only time in the year i'll sing in public. As for the virgin birth, three kings and all that, it's a nice piece of fiction...just like Die Hard, my favourite Christmas movie.

I'm as atheist as they come, but I enjoy Christmas. I like the tradition of it and people do seem a bit more jolly and friendly. And its a week off work which can never be sniffed at, and i'm partial to banging out a carol or two when i've had enough wine

Is that the atheist equivalent of a vegan smashing a doner kebab after the works xmas do?

No, I still overindulge every year.

Things I’ve learned this week after talking to my Mum:

It doesn’t start earlier every year, the manic Xmas marketing push has always started just after the kids go to school.

It’s not become more commercial in recent years - it’s been this way since the 80s or earlier - every year there is a ‘must have gift’ every year parents drive themselves nuts over it, every year kids drive them nuts because either they want everything or don’t seem to want anything.

Things that have changed;

Office Xmas party had evolved from a few drinks in the office after hours to a big event that used to be arranged in Sept but now Starts on Jan 1st.

Supermarkets have a ‘seasonal’ aisle now so they have a lot more Xmas crap than they used to - this my be the only thing that’s in regression - for the last couple of years they’ve put out the Xmas shit as soon as the ‘back to school’ stuff was gone, then they’d put it away for Halloween and then pull it out again after. This year they didn’t put it out till Holloween was over!

It’s not become more commercial in recent years - it’s been this way since the 80s or earlier

I was going to say 'complete bollocks', but the stats agree with you (for US anyhow)....

[img] [/img]

Some [url= http://www.statisticsviews.com/details/news/5615111/ONS-reveals-latest-stats-in-time-for-Autumn-Statement.html ]UK stats from ONS[/url] (not inflation adjusted, so the rise will be flattened off once that's factored in).

[img] [/img]

[img] ?oh=53b968b1c07596186e577225c9ea353a&oe=5A958519[/img]

Actually, the 'office doo' has got better - it's now more those that would like to go out, than forcing folk. It's 'come here if you want to'.

Got 3 this year, and all with people I LIKE to socialise with.

PS been making up for it a bit after I spent 25th November 2015 until 8th January 2016 on a spinal bed with a badly broken spine.. I can at least walk now, if not ride as good as I used to.

Maybe, but Advent hasn't so that's all good for the immediate future.

+1 Jamie. A family gathering with plenty of good food for us, probably a bit harder this year with some illness to cope with but I'm sure we we'll manage to enjoy it anyway.

Have done a few christmases just me and my wife together when living abroad, that's good too, still plenty of good food and a bit more relaxed than a larger gathering.

Christmas seems to be an argument between Christians and people who for some reason really like John Lewis /coca cola adverts.

I'd rather take the dog for a walk and then go for a pint. But I suppose that's what I do most bank Holidays anyway. I kinda have to do a Christmas meal but that's out of sympathy for other family members, I really can't be arsed with Christmas.

And I'm slightly offended that everyone thinks I should fall in line with the nonsense.

Now hold on, I'm not sure about all this talk of fiction, you could really cause some offense, pretty sure Die Hard is based on a true story.

Returning to the original question - Yes.

The only decent thing to come out of Christianity is Christmas presents and Easter eggs

Personally it's always been the more pagan mid winter thing despite having a mother who taught at a church school and having the religious crap rammed at us from an early age at school.

It's about getting together with family and friends and celebrating another year. Just because some idiots want to hijack it for their religious needs doesn't mean we should let them.

This old chestnut.

Pretty sure the giving of gifts on or around 25th of december predates our lord and saviour by a good few thousand years...

The only decent thing to come out of Christianity is Christmas presents and Easter eggs

Education clearly passed you by.

Education clearly passed you by.

The aqueduct?

'Christianised reformulation' apparently:

[url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule ]Yule[/url]

I'm sure some other religious 'celebrations' are over marketed in other countries too.

From what I can tell, I don't think this is the case. Seems to be much more restrained in other countries.

From what I can tell, I don't think this is the case. Seems to be much more restrained in other countries.

I blame Henry the VIII.

We're going skiing with wife's brother's family. Doubt I'll have time for any boar hunting or wassailing this year.

In our house, it's a get together during the shortest days of the year to make sure your family and friends are well fed and warm.

Pagan festival gets taken over by Christians

If we're being really pedantic, the date choice of the Christians probably has more to do with the Roman celebration of Sol Invictus rather than transplanting X-tian celebrations onto the heathen Pagan hoards. Now, whether you want to call Pre-Christianity Roman Polytheism; Paganism, is another thread altogether 😆

I'm sure some other religious 'celebrations' are over marketed in other countries too.

I think Xmas is probably the biggest, but then it's one that based around the exchanging of gifts, which you've mostly got to buy so a bit of a marketeers dream really.

The real over-blown version though is limited to the UK, the US and a few other places (they go mad for it in Bahrain oddly).

Eid is a big one, traditions include, feasts of rich foods, gift giving, buying lots of new clothes so it has some parallels with Xmas, it's done to excess in parts of the Middle East, but most things are. They're big on charity at Eid. If you see Muslims handing over £20 notes to the Homeless at the end of summer it's for Eid.

As per a thread I made a few months back, when the shops tell us Christmas has begun,I am not keen on Christmas.

Of my lad was still a kid and if Christmas didn't go on for MONTHS now I might be a little different.

I went in Asda a could of days back to buy a few bits and people are well and truly already stocking up for the event.

I noticed a rather sad and forlorn trolly with a bit of tinsel wrapped around it for a Christmas Present Drive near the entrance. It was empty and it took quite a bit of asking to even find out which organisation it was for.

Decided to put a few bits back on the shelf that I really didn't need and bought a couple of toys to put in there instead.

Made me feel a little less jaded about Christmas for a few hours anyway.

Again, if Christmas didn't have a run up that is about a 1/4 of a year long these days I would be a lot more positive about it.

Depends on what you mean by "meaning". As a kid, it used to mean making things out of coat hangers, tinsel and baubles whilst counting down the days until I got to unwrap my lego set.

Equally, Christianity appropriated a great deal from pagan cultures - including the concept of a mid-winter festival to stave off the sheer bleakness of a Northern European winter.

So equally, the real meaning of Christmas could legitimately entail the removal of one's attire, being painted with woad and dancing around a slab of stone stark naked and blind drunk.

Put THAT in your window display, Selfridges.

It's great for scaring the kids 'round here. Father Christmas is called Olentzero and is a drunk charcoal-burning, sickle-wielding giant.

From wiki

in Areso children would be told to come home early. An adult would then dress up as Olentzero and scare the children still out on the streets with a sickle.

in Berastegi if the children did not want to go to bed, a sickle would be thrown down the chimney and the children told that Olentzero would come to cut their throats if they didn't go to bed.

in Dima a straw puppet dressed as Olentzero with a sickle would be hung from the church tower after the midnight mass on Christmas Eve and if children had been behaving badly, people would say Onontzaro begi-gorri txaminira da etorri, austen baldin badegu barua, orrek lepoa kendu guri "Olentzero with the red eyes has come to the chimney, if we break the fast, he will cut our throats" - referring to the traditional fast in the week before Christmas

A sickle down the chimney would have got even me up the stairs to bed on Christmas eve.

Krampus looks pretty cool too
[img] [/img]

Christmas means different things to different people and always has done.

It also means different things to people depending on what stage of life they're at.

Shops wouldn't stock Christmas stuff if it wasn't selling - clearly a lot of people want to "buy early".

Personally if I see Christmas stuff in the shops in October it doesn't even register as Christmassy because I know that Christmas is a long way away yet.

Maybe the sort of people that get sucked into the "Bigger/Best" competitions at Christmas are generally the sort of people that get sucked into the same competitions with regards to Cars/Bikes/Post Codes etc etc?

If you see Muslims handing over £20 notes to the Homeless at the end of summer it's for Eid.

Only when Eid falls at the end of the summer, I assume?

Shops wouldn't stock Christmas stuff if it wasn't selling - clearly a lot of people want to "buy early".

That's two-way traffic. People are buying early cos the shops are prompting them to do it. Shops don't like the seasonal peak, they'd rather it was spread out, so they try and do it. That's why they've adopted Black Friday.

mefty - Member
The only decent thing to come out of Christianity is Christmas presents and Easter eggs
Education clearly passed you by.

I think youve missed the sarcasm there mefty

xmas is xmas

humans have been having a midwinter pissup since we started generating surplusses of food so at least 20,000+ years of agriculture, cultures all over the world have been carrying it on ever since, saturnalia, yule, whatever you wanna call it
5000 years ago the former inhabitants of britain moved 25 tonne rocks 25k just so they could have a proper winter orgy of indulgence.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2009/dec/20/stonehenge-animal-bones-solstice-feast

we are creatures of habit

xmas is xmas

surely it's xmas [i]means[/i] xmas....

TBH I think if I was christian I'd find the whole thing pretty offensive, you can't tell me Jesus would approve.

But christmas is nice, and the further away it gets from any one religion the better imo, more inclusive. I like that the saudi embassy can send us christmas cards without a trace of irony or weirdness, and I like that atheist me my dad and my brothers, my midly christian mum, my brother's jewish girlfriend and anyone else who feels like it can all take part in the all important Giving Of Stuff and Fighting Over Monopoly. And I will read under the tree and not give a crap about whether it's christian or not

I wonder if some Christians are happy to dissociate secular Christmas activities from religious ones?

I like that atheist me my dad and my brothers, my midly christian mum, my brother's jewish girlfriend and anyone else who feels like it can all take part in the all important Giving Of Stuff and Fighting Over Monopoly.

Some people are apparently offended that the Tesco Christmas ad features Muslims because they don't celebrate Christmas, and I guess they are upset because of the insinuation that Christmas is the normal default and differences are not being respected.

Except that they are clearly shown to be arriving at someone else's house, which gives it context. After all, if you were good friends with some Muslims and they invited you to their Eid feast in the spirit of multiculturalist inclusion, you would hardly refuse, would you? So why not the other way round?

For me it sunk to new depths with the advent (see what I did there) of 'gift' advent calendars. My daughters asked this morning if we could get them Smiggle ones at £25 a pop. I said absolutely no way.

with a badly broken spine..

Is there another sort?

I think it's more about celebrating getting over the shortest day of the year than ever before. There's just more presents now.

I'm glad that Jesus fad seems to have passed.

I have been hanging on desperately to the thought that I might start to feel festive soon (I feel zero about it right now yet I normally love it). Still nothing though.

TBH I think if I was christian I'd find the whole thing pretty offensive

Which could be argued sums up why you are not one, the most common view is that it is a shame others are missing out on the more important aspects.

Some people are apparently offended that the Tesco Christmas ad features Muslims

I think some were angry that the inclusion of Muslims was tokenism since Tesco don't sell a halal turkey.

Some people are apparently offended that the Tesco Christmas ad features Muslims

Trump was livid apparently...

Time off work, playing with the kids, walking, riding, going to the pub, nice food, seeing family and friends.

Yeah, sounds awful.

prawny - Member
I think it's more about celebrating getting over the shortest day of the year than ever before. There's just more presents now.

I'm glad that Jesus fad seems to have passed.

this!

christianity bit is an irrelevance weve been doing it since long b4 jesus was a thing and we'll be doing it long after christianity has joined the ranks of other dead religions

TBH I think if I was christian I'd find the whole thing pretty offensive

I am sure there are very few countries who have accepted the gradual erosion of native tradition that us Brits seem quite happy with. We would rather change our ways to suit people of non-British origin than encourage them to accept our traditions. Changing the names we use for things, banning religious wear... I think it's a travesty.

I'm not interested in the simple comments from "Christian-bashers", especially as it seems so in-vogue from people on this forum! I'm not making a pro-Christian point (if you think that, you've misunderstood my point).

Also, if Britain holds a long-standing christian basis for our version of Christmas, then that IS where we should look to for a traditional version of the celebration.

I've happily avoided the worst of winter consumerism by being abroad for the last fifteen years or so.

its not mentioned nearly so much elsewhere.

I did nearly kill myself eating a family sized M&S panacotta last year though 😆

if Britain holds a long-standing christian basis for our version of Christmas, then that IS where we should look to for a traditional version of the celebration.

Define long standing? You know Jesus wasn't born in Budleigh Salterton don't you? I don't think John the Baptist was really called John either.

The Spirit of Christmas begins with the office parties in November, when the number of A&E x-rays annotated with "Query Glass In Wound" starts to rise.

We would rather change our ways to suit people of non-British origin than encourage them to accept our traditions.

What the hell is that?

What has changed since I was a kid? Nothing. No-one has banned Christmas. Put down the Daily Mail.

glasgowdan - Member

I am sure there are very few countries who have accepted the gradual erosion of native tradition that us Brits seem quite happy with.

Yep, it's really weird the way we've adopted this imported "christmas" thing and abandoned our native traditions

I am sure there are very few countries who have accepted the gradual erosion of native tradition that us Brits seem quite happy with.

We would rather change our ways to suit people of non-British origin than encourage them to accept our traditions.

Changing the names we use for things, banning religious wear... I think it's a travesty.

I'm not interested in the simple comments from "Christian-bashers", especially as it seems so in-vogue from people on this forum!

I'm not making a pro-Christian point (if you think that, you've misunderstood my point).

Also, if Britain holds a long-standing christian basis for our version of Christmas, then that IS where we should look to for a traditional version of the celebration.

TBH Why dont christians go and celebrate it how they like and not make the rest of us join in with their version, its not like i think you should all eat a vegan meal, not drink and make donations to third world charities.

You should definitely go for a bike ride early doors though 😉

This old chestnut.

Roasting on an open fire?

I bloody love Christmas; I enjoy treating the people I love, having some time off, spending time with the people I love. I even do an annual week of charity work.....I mean FFS I really dislike the unfortunate 51 weeks of the year, but once a year I'm in such a good mood I'll even tolerate them. Then there's the mince pies, the booze, mulled booze, lonely single women and the cheese....Jesus h Christ the cheese!!!

It's all what you want to make of it. There so much to enjoy about it, why bother to get a grump on about it. Who cares if it's traditional whatever that means, make it something you want to enjoy! It's a bloody good excuse to enjoy yourself.

I have a beer advent calendar, pretty sure traditional christmas is fine at my house 🙂

the booze, mulled booze, lonely single women and the cheese..

[img] [/img]

Yes.

Try to ignore the advertising.

It's nice to have a week off work.
It's nice to have a chance to laze around with family.
It's nice to give a present or two to people I care about.

On a personal note, I will be staying up late on the day before the midwinter celebration, sacrificing a few inanimate objects to head pagan god chap Woden*.

* I believe he particularly likes ale and pie. Sacrificed by means of human consumption.

I'm not interested in the simple comments from "Christian-bashers", especially as it seems so in-vogue from people on this forum! I'm not making a pro-Christian point (if you think that, you've misunderstood my point).

I had noticed that references to Christianity is snubbed or almost sneered at.

As always, lots of different opinions. Maybe i should relax a bit more and not get bogged down with the advertising, commercialism and general excess and do my own thing!

general excess

That is literally the point of Christmas originally. Early Christians decided to co-opt the existing festival as Jesus birthday, because there is no consensus on when he was actually born. The European mid winter feast has existed in various forms for 1000s of years.

I'm technically a Christian, but I'm not blind to the fact that there was a world before the bible.

As with some others, I’m anticipating the shortest day and the return (bloody gradually) of the light and warmth.

Could not give a shite about the 25th and all of the nonsense that leads up to it. This year is going to be particularly difficult as it’s the first one for my lads since I left their Mum. Will have to make the best of it. Probably end up going fishing with them on the day (new rods/reels) and off to a Boxing Day football match.

Don’t get me started on New Year’s Eve. 🙂

I am sure there are very few countries who have accepted the gradual erosion of native tradition that us Brits seem quite happy with. We would rather change our ways to suit people of non-British origin than encourage them to accept our traditions. Changing the names we use for things, banning religious wear... I think it's a travesty.

What stone did you just crawl out from under?

It's called a tolerant and open society!

We would rather change our ways to suit people of non-British origin than encourage them to accept our traditions. Changing the names we use for things, banning religious wear... I think it's a travesty.

I am sure there are very few countries who have accepted the gradual erosion of native tradition that us Brits seem quite happy with. We would rather change our ways to suit people of non-British origin than encourage them to accept our traditions. Changing the names we use for things, banning religious wear... I think it's a travesty.

Virtually everything that we think of as a British traditional Christmas was imported from Germany by the Victorians, and pretty much everything else predates Christianity.

As others have said, stop reading the Daily Mail.