[Closed] Do you find you can't be arsed disagreeing with people any more?

After being in the house with the family for the last 6 months, i find myself walking away, often out of the house, as soon as an argument starts, rather than defending my position. Just not worth fighting.

If you say so.. ** sigh **

There are certain types of thread that are unhealthy so I don't get involved; otherwise I (try to) make my point once but then not get dragged in!! This is the internet so realistically, you're not going to change anyone's mind 😂

Wouldn't ever bother even trying on FB but then (unlike here) you can choose who you see posts from... choose wisely & it's very rarely an issue.

All depends if I have anything else to do. Nothing on an internet forum is worth spending much time on a reply. Would help if the posts were limited to 100 words though to make the discussion quicker and to the point.

Yes, especially on ArseBook when some posts utter crap I just block them. The chances of being able to have an adult discussion with anyone these days is sadly diminishing.

I've found myself correcting people who have posted something incorrect about Coronavirus etc. There's no disagreeing, just stating of facts with a source. Unless they are from the US, then I just leave them to it.

Yep. Often find myself about to post a response and then thinking "it's not worth it" and deleting it.

I culled my FB "friends" the other day because of this, went from 200+ "friends" to just 20 close friends, family and a couple of colleagues. And a few of them are on borrowed time.

It's not just calling out or fact checking some of the bollocks some of them spout that I disagree with, even people who I agree with seem to be fixated on an extreme world view and can't entertain any concept of a possible middle ground.

Plus some of the virus paranoia really does my head in, people who couldn't possibly go to a socially distanced outside cafe but quite keen to go back to the office. Well which is it then?

So I've scaled back, including on here, after being roasted/abused for trying to express an opinion that didn't agree with someone elses

Problem is that you do end up in an echo chamber and out of touch with wider "opinion", which may not be the same as "knowledge"

Mostly on Facebook where I deliberately keep a few 'pet' opposing views as friends. Quite often type out a complete response before deleting it. I guess it gets the 'rage' vented without creating an argument.

I don't even read posts from certain people.
That way I don't even have to bother not being bothered to reply.
Don't do facebook either so that's not a problem for me.
I had to train myself to not stop and have an argument with grumpy "shouldn't be riding here" types. They just get a pleasant morning/afternoon/evening as I ride past now.Far mor effective at ruining their day and not mine.

Someone's already said it - in a disagreement, give an opinion, walk away. I'll make an exception for something technical where I think someone might harm themselves. I rarely get involved in discussions on Facebook but then I've obviously "curated" my Friends list well enough that I rarely see any of them posting stuff that ires me.

I find myself deleting lot of posts as I ask myself “does this do anything to move the conversation forward?”.
Often the answer is no.

So I’ve scaled back, including on here, after being roasted/abused for trying to express an opinion that didn’t agree with someone elses

Yeah, I've had that too and seen it happen to others. There is a certain clique who will all jump in as soon as one does. There are some opinions that just can't be expressed on here.

Yes, especially on ArseBook when some posts utter crap I just block them. The chances of being able to have an adult discussion with anyone these days is sadly diminishing.

This.

I tried engaging with a few FB 'friends' who I had kept as 'representative of views other than my own'. I actually tried quite hard. Not aggressive or piss-takey just pointing out stuff or asking the odd pertinent question as neutrally as possible. Most interactions ended up with them playing to the gallery and escalating to various degrees of aggression or silliness.

I just block them now. Life is too short to engage with people who won't give an inch, be in any way introspective or, most likely, posted in the hope of an argument so they can look big in front of other people.

It is quite refreshing.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there Morecash (sorry)
My Mrs follows all kinds of arseholes on twitter, she says she wants to know what the enemy are thinking. I already know what they think, I can't avoid hearing their shite, but if I can minimise it I will be a happier person.
I don't really argue tho, I can think of about 2 times when I've seen someone change their position based on an internet discussion. I'll ignore the minor stuff, block the serious. All hail the killfile (when it works)

Yeah, some of those posters on the best fighter jet thread who don't know the difference between an interceptor and air superiority fighter really need setting straight, but honestly, what can you do?

Sometimes

The ones o struggle with are family, in particular my parents, who have managed to fill their heads with the most ridiculous nonsense they can find in the daily mail.

My mum is Scottish but lived in England for years, brexity, pro Boris & they are having massive issues getting their head round the fact that sturgeon is a better leader than Johnson, they've already alienated my Scottish cousins.

I find myself arguing with them more than I should, it's hard to bite my tongue when they are spouting real bobbins.

Politics becoming more & more polarised
I'm not sure it's good for anyone.

Yep, can't be bothered arguing I the main.  Quite often here people post responses to my posts which I know I can / should post a rebuttal, but can't be bothered.

I've enough stress staying alive and paying the bills, I don't need any more.

It's like screaming at a hurricane arguing with people these days, and for what end really? It's not like they're going to suddenly change their minds based on what i'm going to say.

I'm an idiot, i'll be the first to admit it, I've believed stuff over the years that may be classed as "conspiracy theories" but recently I've learned that I was mostly wrong in my angry twenties and rationality wins over every time.

I've gave up trying to argue with anyone because it gets you absolutely nowhere, I think we're misled by social media to think that the asshole problem in the world is bigger than it is, people are generally decent, it's just the ones who scream the loudest that get all the attention.

Experience has taught me that internet opinions are ofter quite stubborn, so I will very rarely get involved in wasting my time in "I'll be there in a mo, someone on the internet is wrong" scenarios.

I just sit in the cheap seats and throw peanuts for my own peurile amusement

I just sit in the cheap seats and throw peanuts for my own peurile
amusement

It's a trap!

It’s a trap!

I disagree.

I shut down my facebook account for this reason. An old uni mate and overt nasty Tory kept posting bollocks followed by "thats my opinion and no point arguing about it". Well, OK, I'm done then.

I think that’s just what people did in the past, and not so long ago either.

IME arguments were rare, you either said your view and then talked about something else, just nodded along as you were told the Earth was flat, the Royals had Diana whacked or the moon landings were faked and laughed about it later.

More likely now people will fight their corner on every little thing, become more entrenched and more polarised through a sort of weird loyalty to their ‘team’. I can’t help but think we’re being manipulated into it somehow.

Some people don't seem to have any opinion on what the thread subject is about and just wait to slag off someone else's post. It's quite pathetic really. One post is usually enough from me but have found myself reacting occasionally. Had to report my own post to the mods a week or so ago 😆
One poster just seems to check each thread so he can disagree with me. One day he'll realise I don't even read his posts.
But yeah, I have typed stuff then just thought 'why bother' and hit refresh instead quite a lot.
Have a Facebook account, but it's just to see what gigs, music releases are about. Never discuss anything else on there. Same with Twitter.

It depends on the topic of disagreement and how knowledgeable and invested I am in the issue. Some things are a privilege to ignore and others aren't worth it

Yes, I feel similarly. I do have several dear friends that I wholeheartedly have differing views from - but we share the same values, just disagree on how best to get there. Those friends I can have an adult conversation with...

I can’t help but think we’re being manipulated into it somehow.

This, really. Its hard to escape the notion that the internet (or social media) is having an insidious effect on society in way that we won't fully understand until it's too late. Not really sure how you put that genie back in the bottle though.

I think people in general are as decent as they've always been but its often not the picture that is being represented in the media or online and you've got to wonder what sort of effect this distorted representation will have.

Do you find you can’t be arsed disagreeing with people any more?

Depends if they want to have a full argument, or were thinking of taking a course? 😁

One poster just seems to check each thread so he can disagree with me. One day he’ll realise I don’t even read his posts.

Then how do you know?

Shouting into a hurricane is about right. You can post something several times on here, it's there in black and white and people will still either ignore it or misinterpret it to such a degree its difficult not to think its deliberate. God forbid you try and call people out for being arseholes as well, rather than play the ball they play the man and you're suddenly the bad guy.

Still far too many people with an attitude of "it's only the internet" that are quite happy spouting the sort of crap that would earn them a proper hiding in the real world. Sadly I find myself getting included in that these days.

But you're right, sometimes it's easier just to ignore people.

This, really. Its hard to escape the notion that the internet (or social media) is having an insidious effect on society in way that we won’t fully understand until it’s too late. Not really sure how you put that genie back in the bottle though.

Better, more even handed moderation IMO. Descent World was positively draconian (especially if you pissed Gaz off) and even Southern Downhill was more heavily moderated in comparison to here but there was in no way the same mob mentality, antagonisation, bickering or circular arguments as the mods tended to keep things on track rather than the laissez-faire attitude on here. That's not a criticism of the mods BTW, it's just how a difference in the attitudes and philosophies underpinning your platform can affect these sorts of things.

It depends.

Even on the "internet" and various social platforms thereof, you can generally tell the difference between a well natured discussion and a slanging match.

Debate is an important thing, testing out ideas by asking other people what they think of them is one of the things that actually drives progress.

But yeah, when a "discussion" descends into a series of personal attacks, ad homs or random invective then I don't engage.

Never done FB etc. STW is the only social media outlet I indulge in. There's the odd contrarian on here but for the most part I find it an engaging, informative and supportive place.

I have a 3 strikes rule, I'll give the benefit of the doubt twice then it's bombers / potty mouth time.

I reserve my anger for technology, things like trying to type on a phone with my sausage fingers, getting logged out unexpectedly etc. That shit makes me really mad. Autocorrect is the spawn of Satan and has argued with me numerous times whilst typing this reply. It's even more contrary than morecash!

Autocorrect is the spawn of Santa

FTFY

Problem is that you do end up in an echo chamber and out of touch with wider “opinion”

Mleh, I wouldn't go drinking with folk who's opinion is diametrically opposed to my own, so why would I go out of my way to engage with them on social media? Like many on here, I gave up on FB a long time ago, I re-engaged with a village community page a few months ago, and TBH it was just as vile as I remembered.

This site is the only place I'll really "contribute" to a discussion, and I'm finding that increasingly, I can't even be arsed with that either.

Yes. I think it's important that people are provided with a range of views, so there are friends on Facebook posting stuff I'll frequently (and politely) challenge. But I tell you what, that shit is getting real tired.

Online - definitely CBA, it rarely does any good . IRL then I think I challenge people more.

Never been one for arguing whether that be face to face or online as its ****ing pointless and achieves the grand total of **** all whilst needlessly raising stress levels/hormones, I'll offer my opinion on subjects and then walk off, I do read some of the argumentative threads on here by some of the more vociferous posters and i wonder just what the **** is going on (or not) in their lives that they consider it so important to get their argument and point of view across.

#sadsackforumdwellers

I’m finding this with work right now. Currently going through about the 5th re-org in as many years. Initially keen to input to try and get things right. Increasingly I can’t be arsed. I’ve got to the point where I’m argued out and management can just deal with the consequences of poor decisions.

The rise of social media coincided with the decline in graffitti. So all of that sloganeering, self-aggrandisement, misspelling, obscenity, idiocy and vandalism is now brought right to your screen, gratis.

God forbid you try and call people out for being arseholes as well, rather than play the ball they play the man

Don't know if I'm missing some subtle wind-up here, but surely calling someone an arsehole is the exact definition of playing the man?

Don't give up. The world needs people to speak out. If you stop, they'll win.

However, this doesn't mean getting into a row. The trick is to do it nicely, it's far more effective.

I'm more argumentative in real life than on here 😬
Mostly I think because I'm not the most eloquent and gifted of writer.

I do find that discussions in life are getting more like dealing with a toddler who's had too much sugar and is due a nap.

"Share!"

"No!"

Then how do you know

Cos I used to, then stopped. Anyway a quick scan will tell you, you don't have to fully read something.

A couple of notable absentees from this thread I see.

I think he might be referring to those lucky people who can jump to a conclusion and/or insult without worrying about any reference to evidence or argument. You might end up trading insults but call it a discussion, not much of an edifying experience. Better off making the odd absurdist observation, humour can be subversive but makes people titter rather than shrill.

A couple of notable absentees from this thread I see.

They're in another thread, arguing with each other.

Yeah, I suppose in real life I'm more likely to discuss stuff, but online I just can't be arse with all the typing.

I rarely enter into the more heated "discussions" for several reasons:

- there too many people who think that they are expert on every subject matter, and confuse their opinion with facts. Frequently they have no direct experience of the issue being debated and spout off based on other people's opinions, not even other people's factual experience
- there seems to be an increasing intolerance of other people's opinions. If someone has a different point of view to your own it doesn't make them necessarily right or you necessarily wrong. The art of debate seems beyond many

I hope that Facebook and Twitter etc are not really representative of what people believe and behave like, it's more of an outlet or a kind of therapy.

Maybe the therapy angle should be explored more, with having a safe space where you can discuss anything you want and have a proper vent without being judged or punished. But then the rest of social media being more like real life where you are held accountable for the views and decisions you have and make.

It could help people chill the f##k out.

So those with humanist, socially aware, inclusive and sharing views are happy to keep politiely defending them, and the authoritarian, xenophobic, police state, Brexiting, greedy types are fed up with having their arguments pulled apart and trashed. 🙂

Yes I agree with the op. I get halfway through writing a reply and deleted as I can’t be bothered

So those with humanist, socially aware, inclusive and sharing views are happy to keep politiely defending them, and the authoritarian, xenophobic, police state, Brexiting, greedy types are fed up with having their arguments pulled apart and trashed.

TDLR; Ignorance is bliss.

Replying online you have to be so careful with wording, trying to be helpful by sharing actual experience or knowledge is quickly read as trying to have an argument. In the pub you are able to read so much more about how what you are saying is being received and processed.

Also, in the real word you can lead-in to a discussion by chatting around the subject, sharing a joke, so you are having a chat during which it becomes apparent that you think differently about something and respectfully explore each other's views. The comment-reply style online just seems adversarial.

I have neighbours who have very different views to me on some of the big recent topics. I cant bear to read their posts, but we've had some constructive chats in the pub because you have time to illustrate why you believe something different to be the case and understand the difference between opinion and actual objective evidence. There is also a moderation going on in public - people actually know when their views are unkind or socially less acceptable because they definitely reel their necks in when they have a live audience or can sense losing the room when go a bit far.

trying to be helpful by sharing actual experience

is dismissed as anecdote. 🙂

It's a whole new level of crazy out there with the rise of Qanon over here

I can't be arsed anymore as you can't argue with them

TBH I can't be arsed replying to a lot of threads these days. Eg the current XT vs Hope and frames for small riders - After a few replies most bases have been covered and while I can type an informative reply based on experience it's just adding to the noise. Much like this.

I do like to read some of the arguments though - it's healthy to expose yourself to a range of opinions, but it's a rare day on the internet when someone says "OK I admit I was wrong and your posts have changed my mind".

I’ll offer my opinion on subjects and then walk off

arguably worse than someone who is prepared to at least defend/justify their opinion.

I’ll offer my opinion on subjects and then walk off

arguably worse than someone who is prepared to at least defend/justify their opinion.

Posted 22 minutes ago

I think it's fair enough to post a quick view on a topic and not stick around for the full wrangle. People posting are rarely going to be convinced by someone arguing against them, but those of us casually scanning might want to see a counter argument. Or not. Feel free to disagree...

No. I never argue with people on the Internet.

Yeah, some of those posters on the best fighter jet thread who don’t know the difference between an interceptor and air superiority fighter really need setting straight, but honestly, what can you do?

Post of the day and deserved more love. 👏

There is also a moderation going on in public

Bingo

Don’t know if I’m missing some subtle wind-up here, but surely calling someone an arsehole is the exact definition of playing the man?

I wasn't being literal.

I mean pointing out that people are bickering and appealing for reasoned discussion usually earns accusations of hypocrisy (yeah but now you're arguing/ who made you a mod/ why is your opinion more important etc.) and such rather than reflection that they are in fact, acting like arseholes amd should probably think a bit more before they post.

I never argue with people on the Internet.

Yes you do.

Yes you do.

That's not an argument, it's just contradiction.

Edit: Cant be arsed.

If it something stupid, wheel size or pedal type for example, I ignore or troll😁, if it's something serious, racism say, I'm more likely to call people on it.
I don't do Twitter or Facebook though 😁

That’s not an argument, it’s just contradiction.

So you say.

I'm not allowed to argue unless you pay!

arguably worse than someone who is prepared to at least defend/justify their opinion.

You may consider it that way but rather than respond 2hrs ago I've just spent a pleasant 2 hours lying on the couch having a joint & whisky and staring out the window at the rain whilst daydreaming bout buggerall, much more rewarding than justifying my opinion wi folk i do not know nor have any inclination to know.

Hmmmm.....need something to eat now.

One of the reasons I like to argue and debate stuff is because it makes you actively think about your own position- looking up info can confirm or deny things you already thought, and sometimes the stress testing of making the argument, makes you realise you're not so sure yourself, and often the other person will make you think or provide a good counter or development that you've missed. I mean, i can't be the only person that's ever changed their position because of an argument on the internet... can I?

Or that's the idea at least. It doesn't work if everyone's just restating positions and opinions or throwing poo.

duggan

This, really. Its hard to escape the notion that the internet (or social media) is having an insidious effect on society in way that we won’t fully understand until it’s too late. Not really sure how you put that genie back in the bottle though.

I agree with a lot of what others have said as well.. but this hits a real nerve.

I think the media side is pretty well understood, the idea is simply to create divisive topics to create click bait and interactions ... I find more disturbing that: (Venn diagram)
a) We are normalised to this
b) It seems to be being fed with agendas other than just media clicks
c) It's now used as an excuse for government
d) divisive leads to almost religious dogma and narratives
(and probably e,f,g ...)

Putting that together in a haphazard form... overlain with #cancelculture etc. and I feel if we don't know or fully understand the actual insidious effects they are not good for society.

These merging narratives I almost find the most disturbing....as it seems to p[ush disturbing agendas together. The example comes to mind pre-social media is almost the Mid West religious, pro-life, pro-capital punishment, pro guns where it always seemed support of one makes the others more or less compulsory.

In the old pre-interwebby-social times there were (are) towns where I hear social acceptance is tied to this and I can see how a small mid-west town these get tied together...
I feel now that this is what happens in social media bubbles...

I think people in general are as decent as they’ve always been but its often not the picture that is being represented in the media or online and you’ve got to wonder what sort of effect this distorted representation will have.

Hard to say ... I feel that social media is spilling into real-life more than the inverse.
At least people are being conditioned into thinking along the lines of you are either for/against guns, capital punishment and abortion as a "package"

I think the writers of he thick of it nailed it with;

"Peter Mannion : This is the trouble with the public, they're ****ing horrible!

Emma Messinger : Peter, you can't say the public are ****ing horrible.

Peter Mannion : Yes I can, I've met them."

One of the reasons I like to argue and debate stuff is because it makes you actively think about your own position

Ah. Now i know where I'm going wrong.

I get the same on stuff like Facebook too; I’ll see post from people and think “that’s just bollocks”, but don’t bother calling them out because, well, see above. If they’re particularly bollocks I’ll probably just un-follow whoever it is.

I just stopped using Fb, three years ago in fact. I haven’t deleted it, I still use Messenger, because it’s how a bunch of my oldest friends keep in touch, but I just don’t bother with the main site; having said that, like DezB says, it’s useful for keeping up to date with what bands and artists are up to, which is all I ever use it for now.
It was my cousin posting up Chemtrail conspiracy bollocks that started the rot with me, what with Angry Tinkerbell and QAnon nowadays, I stay well away from it, for my own health - at my age, an aneurysm is the likely result of getting wound up by some jackass on Fb!

One of the reasons I like to argue and debate stuff is because it makes you actively think about your own position

That's beautifully reasoned, well said.

It's not the only reason, I'm just a contrary shitehawk, but it's certainly a driving factor.

Cougar
Subscriber

That’s beautifully reasoned, well said.

No it isn't!

I'll second (or third) what Northwind said. Posting on here actively makes me think about my own position and writing it down makes me better able to articulate that position in the real world.

Sometimes I don't have a formed opinion on something but another poster will furnish some information that helps shape my position. The coronavirus thread being a good example. (Shout out to TiRed)

Getting flamed is just par for the course and part of having your ideas tested. I got flamed a few months back for suggesting that wearing masks might be a good idea and that coronavirus bail out money would end up going to those that least deserved it and be a recipe for corruption. I was quite happy to be called am idiot and conspiracy theorist, in fact I had a little fun with it, winding people up by comparing the UK response to that of Kenya. It was quite helpful for smoking out the closet racists and those with unconscious bias. Good prep for the events that were just around the corner.

Yes.... reading the first page of this thread, I was wondering how long it was going to be before somebody talked about their own position evolving.

There was quite a lot of irony prior to that:

"I can't be bothered arguing with people on the internet any more - they never listen. I think it's better just to tell them that they're all wrong/bastards and then walk away".

I quite like our corner of the internet - and have found that on quite a few topics, having heard other peoples views, my own position does change. Maybe I don't come completely around to their way of thinking, but I certainly understand the merits of the other side better.

Getting flamed is just par for the course and part of having your ideas tested

I agree with this - but I think "flaming" is part of the problem, and encourages people to respond poorly, and simply reject whatever counterpoint is being made.