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I was at Tesco just now. I may have discussed this before but our local Tesco is deeply weird when it comes to security, if you're buying something tagged like say alcohol or Gaviscon they VERY CLEARLY tell you that they'll de-tag it AFTER YOU'VE PAID and make a big deal of printing out a receipt you don't want in order to scrutinise it. I've shopped in Tesco stores from Inverness to Cornwall and I've never known a store quite like ours, I think the branch manager might have issues.
Anyway.
I was at Tesco just now, picked up a scan-as-you-go barcode reader, then suddenly remembered my rucksack was full of shite from when I emptied out the car a few days back. So I put down the scanner and the one item of shopping I'd picked up, walked back out of the store and dumped my crap into the bin just outside. The security guard was on me like a tramp on hot chips as I walked back into the store, "alright mate?" I went "yup," otherwise ignored him completely and went about my day without breaking stride.
But it set me thinking. If he'd decided to be an arse and demanded to see inside my bag, what rights does he / do I have? Can they do that? If I'd responded with "go **** yourself," how might that have panned out? I think I might have been tempted either to ask him to turn his own pockets out first and see how he likes it, or say "go ahead and call the police, I'll wait."
No powers at all. Only the same as any person, so in.order for them to act the person must be committing an indictable offence, Sect 24 (2) of PACE
They are simply a deterrent.
Or as Cartman says " respect the authoritaaaaay"
or they must "reasonably suspect" you of committing an offence. And they can use "reasonable force" to detain you until the police arrive. But they [I]cannot[/I] search you/your bag. So maybe just show them if they ask rather than go all sovereign citizen about it 🤔🤷♂️😂 They are literally just doing their job, after all!!Only the same as any person, so in.order for them to act the person must be committing an indictable offence
If some one asked politely and justified why they wanted to see in my bag, I might show them. If they demanded to, they'd get a short lecture on sex and travel. It's all about the approach.
I work one day a week in a supermarket (not on the security detail). The training we are given includes guidelines on how to reduce theft.
After the heavy instructions about not putting your self in a situation where you are frightened or feel you may come to harm, one of the biggest things they promote is to let people know you have seen them. Even just standing watching from the other end of the isle might put someone off without putting your self at risk.
Sounds to me like they may have been letting you know he was there as he had seen you do something he was unsure about.
Perhaps he was passing the time of day.
Oh, he really wasn't. This isn't my first rodeo with that store, he was on an intercept course. He looked shocked when he found me walking back in again.
If some one asked politely and justified why they wanted to see in my bag, I might show them. If they demanded to, they’d get a short lecture on sex and travel. It’s all about the approach.
Pretty much my thinking also TBH.
They are literally just doing their job, after all!!
Isn't that a trope trotted out to describe low-rent Nazis?
Interesting that you got wound up by it. I used to as well.
But then I realised that I don't like thieves, I don't like paying additional for stuff to compensate for thieves and I ought to do my bit to make it easier for the people trying to prevent thieves.
So I cut them a bit of slack
Even just standing watching from the other end of the isle might put someone off without putting your self at risk.
As an aside,
One time in ASDA, I became consciously aware that I was being tailed by a security guard. Like REALLY BLATANTLY OBVIOUSLY being tailed, I'm normally utterly oblivious to other people and I noticed. Walking through the alcohol isle, he visibly stiffened even further.
On the way out I was hollered by a mate of mine working on the customer services / cigarette kiosk. He fessed up to me and the guard, he'd tipped off the guard for a prank, "you want to watch that one, he's a known shoplifter." Bastard. 😁
Even just standing watching from the other end of the isle might put someone off
Shit, you must have seriously good eyesight....
Mostly, they are just doing a job, a pretty thankless job at that, shops like tescos lose thousands a day to shoplifting, they have aggressive customers and so on.
Our main tesco have kids being muppets all the time as well, and the usual suspects who are in to nick stuff, security tends to work together as well, so one shop will notify everyone else about troublemakers, known shoplifters, etc so they don't tend to just be on a 'power trip' to annoy regular folk, yes they will dip check, but that's part of the job, only time i've had it they wanted to see my receipt as i set the buzzer off going out, nothing in the bag had a tag, but showed the receipt and on my way.
Interesting that you got wound up by it. I used to as well.
I don't know as "wound up" is the right word. More just irritated by the attitude of the store in general, it's a constant.
One time I left a bulky item behind by accident, went back to see if I could collect it, they spent fully half an hour involving multiple members of staff to review CCTV footage and cross-reference my receipt to ascertain that I had, in fact, left a £10 bag of cat litter exactly where I told them I'd left it.
Frankly, I’ve no idea why the hell store workers freak out at the sight of rucksacks.
Are we smuggling koala bears?
Whenever you watch any hiking videos online, the walkers always have to remove the rucksack, prior to rummaging around for the packed lunch.
Its impossible for the person wearing the rucksack to access its contents, whilst wearing it.
If the rucksack is really, really big, there may be space to fit someone inside, surreptitiously swiping items from the supermarket shelves.
I understand that the supermarket management puts the security staff in an intolerable position, but really the security should organise collectively to establish some boundaries.
And I don’t know why the security eyeballs people at every turn.
From a crime prevention perspective, I’d be eyeballing every potential perps shoes.
It’s more easy to identify them from their footwear.
It’s not as if they’ve stashed a pair of ‘getaway trainers’ in the car park…
”Sigma one to dispatch…we’ve found a pair of used Doc Martens in the alleyway. Subject is nowhere in sight. I repeat, subject has evaded capture. Aaaaw Shiiite”…😂😂😂
Frankly, I’ve no idea why the hell store workers freak out at the sight of rucksacks.
I mean,
All other things aside, I've been to that self same store carrying that self same rucksack like twice a week for the last three years. You'd think they'd have worked it out by now.
Occasionally I get stopped by a new padawan, "have you paid for that?" I reply "no, I'm stealing it" and they look at me like they genuinely believe me.
" Shit, you must have seriously good eyesight…."
That's why I only work one day a week, Oronsay is not very big 😉
To say the whole Tesco security measures are paranoid as f is an understatement and I feel insulted trying to enter my store through electric barriers then exit through self service with a receipt that'll get thrown in bin rather than save paper.
Plus their meat and fish is shocking poor quality
Store workers freak out about rucksacks because it is part of their job if they don’t, they get reprimanded.
I’ve been to that self same store carrying that self same rucksack like twice a week for the last three years. You’d think they’d have worked it out by now.
A couple of things leap out from this statement. First, do you actually think that members of the security staff of a tesco will remember you from one visit to the next?
Secondly why do you go to a shop twice a week if it annoys you so much? I’m assuming that it’s your only option, but if you bought more on each visit you wouldn’t need to go as often.
To be honest, writing a strongly worded letter of complaint to the head office is probably your best course of action.
No powers at all.
Well in terms of arrest etc I agree. But they could surely bar you from the store? I’m sure when I worked in retail (25 years ago) this was common place. Known shoplifters would travel round the south London stores I worked in. If they turned up at a store and were recognised they were politely told to clear off.
To say the whole Tesco security measures are paranoid as f is an understatement
Maybe you shop somewhere properly dodgy but I don't even notice the security at the Tesco I regularly go to.
So you act a smidge shifty by going into a store, picking up something and then rushing out and tipping your bag contents into a bin before coming right back in.
When security ask you a straightforward question about whether you've paid for something, you tell them you're stealing, and then in front of the store you're taking pictures of someone's car covered up? (The other thread)
I'd totally be watching you.
🤔😉😂
No powers at all.
In COVID times I saw a cocky lad, maybe teens / early 20s try and get in without a mask. The guard was all over it, and squared up, getting physical without actually being physical and telling him quite plainly he wasn't getting in without a mask. The guy tried to resist but only got more back from the guard. Quite satisfying to see a cocky shite put in his place, but I think the guard was A team for COVID times, none of the regular lot look like they'd put up that level of resistance - but funny about "being seen" because I quite often see them watching me and think they're being too obvious. I must look shifty.
First, do you actually think that members of the security staff of a tesco will remember you from one visit to the next?
I'd like to think I'm memorable. 😁
Secondly why do you go to a shop twice a week if it annoys you so much?
Because I have a partner who goes "can you nip out and get..." about six nanoseconds after I've walked back through the door.
So you act a smidge shifty by going into a store, picking up something and then rushing out and tipping your bag contents into a bin before coming right back in.
I appreciate that in isolation my behaviour may have been a mite unusual. But that was just backstory to add colour to why I was asking the question at all.
When security ask you a straightforward question about whether you’ve paid for something, you tell them you’re stealing, and then in front of the store you’re taking pictures of someone’s car covered up? (The other thread)
For context here, it's not security asking questions historically, it's the regular store staff.
The car was outside a garage, they seem to have a thing for classic motors (for some value of classic). There was an mk4 Escort RS Turbo out there a couple of weeks back. It wasn't just outside some rando's house.
Oronsay is not very big 😉
Aisle take your word for it.....
they’d get a short lecture on sex and travel
You'd talk about Thailand...
If a guard takes issue with my self checkout, I am happy to point out that they’ve just had five to ten minutes of my time. My professional rate is about 30x the checkout wage, and I will be happy to receive my remuneration. A discount or some trust would be a fine thing.
If a guard takes issue with my self checkout, I am happy to point out that they’ve just had five to ten minutes of my time. My professional rate is about 30x the checkout wage, and I will be happy to receive my remuneration. A discount or some trust would be a fine thing.
Remember to mention your gong and they may let you shop free. Every little helps.
I think the guard was A team for COVID times, none of the regular lot look like they’d put up that level of resistance
Because, as my son’s shop manager put it, “It’s not worth getting stabbed for a bottle of Bells”
Supermarket, in fact most, shop work is shit. Because customers and thieves make it shit. I cut them a lot of slack.
That security guard may well remember you better next time if you'd explained what you'd just done and why., you know, in a friendly fashion. It might have reminded both of you you are simply human beings going about your daily business.
The amount of money shops lose to theft is staggering. It's a no win situation for them trying to keep customers happy while protecting their goods/colleagues. Making products more secure brings complaints ( see the whiskey tagging thread). Security watching customers brings complaints too. If the Security say something wrong etc then more and more customers these days will take the issue further with violence/agression or legal, resulting in guards and staff who can only observe you rather than stop you/ask what you are up to etc. Shoplifters know this and the situation is endemic. It’s no wonder highstreets are empty and online booming as the losses on the highstreet are just huge. I feel society is more of the issue and shop Security measures are just a result of that. 20 years ago very few supermarkets had a Security guard.If we are all happy for the shoplifters to carry on then be prepared for price to continue to spiral to cover it, or suck up a guard watching you or having your whiskey tagged in the hope prices stay down because I don’t see society getting better.
My professional rate is about 30x the checkout wage, and I will be happy to receive my remuneration. A discount or some trust would be a fine thing.
You're doing it wrong. You should be getting red in the face while shouting "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?" - that'll show them, the plebs.
If a guard takes issue with my self checkout, I am happy to point out that they’ve just had five to ten minutes of my time. My professional rate is about 30x the checkout wage, and I will be happy to receive my remuneration. A discount or some trust would be a fine thing.
<Goes off to check Tired's posting history to try see if he is taking the piss or really is an .......>
PS. Emolument is the word you're looking for, remuneration makes you look so common 😉
To be honest, I prefer talking to someone at the checkout, but there is a switch to an honestly based self checkout. The Dutch have special slow lanes just for that conversation. BTW I was taking the urea, but the principle is there. A transfer of labour (and cost savings) from five staff on five lanes to one overseeing five machines. It’s sold on “convenience”, but the opportunity cost is increased theft. I wonder if it’s even coat neutral. But an ”unexpected moron in the bagging area” seems to be a common issue.
now they’ve given up on trust and require a receipt to exit through gates (though not in my local coop).
got a letter from the supermarket the other day
I opened and read it, it said they were suckers
They wanted me for their self-checkout or whatever
Picture me givin' a damn, I said, "Never"
Here is a shop that never gave a damn
About a brother like me and myself because they never did
I wasn't wit' it, but just that very minute
It occurred to me, the suckers had authority
Cold sweatin' as I dwell in my cell
How long has it been they got me sittin' in the car park?
Why wasn’t the butler doing the shopping?
Hahahaha. Sadly I’m PAYE. The rate we pay contractors, however…
Maybe ChatGPT is useful after all....
In the supermarket's silent glow,
Where whispers of convenience flow,
A row of screens, a digital glow,
Invites the shopper’s hand to show.
No longer need we wait in line,
For cashiers with their practiced shine,
Now self-service is the sign,
Efficiency in a sleek design.
A beep for each item scanned,
The shopper is now in command,
A subtle dance, a swift demand,
Technology at our command.
Yet in this progress, there’s a trace,
Of human touch, a fading grace,
The friendly chat, the smiling face,
Replaced by screens, a quicker pace.
In aisles where voices used to blend,
A quiet hum is now the trend,
Transactions without a friend,
A modern way, a digital end.
But in this change, a choice we find,
To move ahead or lag behind,
Embrace the future, ease of mind,
Or yearn for what we've left behind.
In the self-checkout’s gentle beep,
Lie stories of the time we keep,
Of change that's both profound and deep,
A world awake, yet half asleep.
/Sigh. I should have seen how this would pan out. I was simply asking whether store security had any official authority vested in them beyond, uh, a hi-vis vest. I neither needed nor wanted a critique on my conduct whilst out buying a bottle of milk. The less interaction with people the better as far as I'm concerned.
That security guard may well remember you better next time if you’d explained what you’d just done and why., you know, in a friendly fashion. It might have reminded both of you you are simply human beings going about your daily business.
I'd have explained what I'd just done and why in a friendly fashion if he'd asked in a friendly fashion. As it was I responded in kind. He gruffly asked if I was alright in a manner presumably meant to intimidate, I replied that I was and went about my day.
Cougar - you behaved in a manner likely to rouse suspicion, then seem surprised when the staff tasked with monitoring for suspicious activity did their job. They have no authority to search you, but if they believe you have committed theft they can detain you. A person who has innocently been wrongly suspected would normally be quite happy to “show” their innocence by revealing the contents of their bag. You can of course refuse them permission to search your bag and insist they call the police. That is likely to be a bit of a waste of your own time. They probably now have even more suspicion so are hardly likely to let you leave. The cops have shoplifting on low priority so you’ll be waiting for them for ages; all so you can score a point against the high vis wearer who was alerted by your unusual behaviour. I could understand someone taking a stance because they believed they were being discriminated against because of their colour etc - but someone who knowingly has just acted suspiciously…
your local supermarket does sound odd, but it’s not unique - I assume Tesco is well enough managed that this isn’t random store managers but is based on data about theft rates in those stores.
Cougar – you behaved in a manner likely to rouse suspicion, then seem surprised when the staff tasked with monitoring for suspicious activity did their job
Again, you're missing context.
I have zero issue with being challenged by a security guard in a professional manner, and I fully admit that my actions were atypical. But.
a) He wasn't professional, his approach was very much making his presence felt. There was no need to engage with me at all, if he was suspicious then he could have followed me round the store on his little screen with his little joystick and I'd have been none the wiser. Indeed, if I was stealing, it'd have been in their interests to lie low and catch me doing it.
b) This store has previous, it is deeply weird. It's like no other Tesco I've ever shopped in, and I've shopped in a lot. The staff are clearly trained to treat everyone as a guilty shoplifter until proven otherwise, which gets my back up as a paying customer. My previous local was the Tesco Extra in Accrington, I find it vanishingly doubtful that Padiham has such a greater shoplifting problem over Accy to merit a store-wide hostile attitude towards its customers. I shopped at the old store for years and not once was I ever I been told "I'll come back to take the tag off after you've paid." Frankly, it's offensive.
c) None of this is relevant to the thread. I'm not questioning the actions of the staff, I posted to ask what legal rights they have.
If a guard takes issue with my self checkout, I am happy to point out that they’ve just had five to ten minutes of my time. My professional rate is about 30x the checkout wage, and I will be happy to receive my remuneration.
Nice. Are there any other areas of life where you object to the lowly paid minions bothering you based upon your superior salary?
Don’t be silly of course I don’t! My comment is a tongue in cheek comment on the company’s expectation of removing jobs and shifting the labour costs to customers. In the name of “convenience”, whilst not holding to the trust side of the bargain and the changes in their corresponding security practices. If you are using self checkout, you are working on behalf of the supermarket.
The amount of money shops lose to theft is staggering
But cannot be anything like the same amount of money they save for not having checkout workers. I don't mind security, it must be a thankless task, and I'm not shoplifting, so if they want to look in my bag, they're welcome. Checkout mangers insisting on checking my shopping and comparing it to the receipt when I've used a self checkout can, on the other hand **** right off. If you want to do that, do the checkout work yourself.
If you’d left the actions off the staff out of your post, no one would be talking about them.
Because heaven forfend that we might provide anecdotal or otherwise irrelevant detail in a post. I could have said he was wearing a top hat and there are those who would leap up screaming "what have you got against hats?!"
a) He wasn’t professional, his approach was very much making his presence felt.
Much like the Police, they’re so used to dealing with scum 99.9% of the time, they often forget how to interact with non-scummy people.
I wouldn’t be a security guard in a shop for 30x the salary anyway. Thieves are scumbags.
The daughter of the farmer who runs the local farm shop was pinned against a wall by her throat when she tried to prevent thieves stealing from them. This particular scumbag stealing vodka was pregnant. The Police didn’t even show up. The thieves come in regularly and steal stuff while their accomplices wait in a car outside and they cannot be stopped. CCTV doesn’t help and they can’t afford security guards they tell me when I asked why they don’t get some.
I shopped at the old store for years and not once was I ever I been told “I’ll come back to take the tag off after you’ve paid.”
I think that's standard Tesco policy. Last time I was buying something tagged, I asked for the tag to be removed, and the woman said she wasn't allowed to remove it until I'd paid for it.
Because heaven forfend that we might provide anecdotal or otherwise irrelevant detail in a post.
it would help keep the readers focused on the important things
Koalas are marsupials, not bears.
What about drop bears? (Oh and check the marsupials in your store – they have pockets)
👌🏻👍🏼🎩👏🏻🤣
My late partner worked checkout at B&M, a job she genuinely enjoyed doing, because of the interaction with the customers, but they didn’t have store security and staff were specifically told not to attempt to stop shoplifters because of the risk of harm to the staff. She regularly came home and told me about yet another trolly-dash incident, where several hundred quids worth of goods had gone out the door into the car park outside.
It was easier to deal with the little kids trying to buy a couple of items with a £50 note, though, because the notes were obviously bogus.
They were often with the adults who’d done the trolley dash, and everyone knew exactly where they went back to afterwards…
I have zero issue with being challenged by a security guard in a professional manner, and I fully admit that my actions were atypical. But.
a) He wasn’t professional, his approach was very much making his presence felt.
you don’t think he was professional but nothing you’ve described sounds unprofessional to me! Of course he was making his presence felt, as per the point you think the thread is about he has no special rights, so he is there as a deterrent. That involves making his presence felt.
There was no need to engage with me at all, if he was suspicious then he could have followed me round the store on his little screen with his little joystick and I’d have been none the wiser.
You clearly have a problem with him. Focussing on one weirdo behaving oddly is a common tactic by shoplifting gangs to distract from the others who actually do the lifting.
Indeed, if I was stealing, it’d have been in their interests to lie low and catch me doing it.
No, it’s almost certainly in their interests to deter rather than catch thieves.
b) This store has previous, it is deeply weird. It’s like no other Tesco I’ve ever shopped in, and I’ve shopped in a lot. The staff are clearly trained to treat everyone as a guilty shoplifter until proven otherwise, which gets my back up as a paying customer.
Then don’t go there. It might be closest but you are not on some outer Hebridean Island with only one choice.
My previous local was the Tesco Extra in Accrington, I find it vanishingly doubtful that Padiham has such a greater shoplifting problem over Accy to merit a store-wide hostile attitude towards its customers.
Have you shared your views with Tesco senior manageMent? One thing Tesco are very good at is data. They know if that shop is doing better or worse than its neighbours both with missing stock and with customer complaints, spend per customer (presumably customers who feel unwelcome spend less) etc.
I shopped at the old store for years and not once was I ever I been told “I’ll come back to take the tag off after you’ve paid.” Frankly, it’s offensive.
but I think this is an evolving policy - I’ve had it here (not everytime) in a Tesco, and it was policy at a sainsbos in centre of Edinburgh - they’ve learned the ways shoplifters work and have procedures to avoid that. If it’s not being followed the staff are probably breaking the rules.
c) None of this is relevant to the thread. I’m not questioning the actions of the staff, I posted to ask what legal rights they have.
you ARE questioning the actions of the staff, you’ve done it throughout the thread and even in this post!
I'm not sure if anyone has answered Cougar's question. So far as I know, the civil law of trespass applies; as agents of the occupier, they can ask you to leave, and if you decline to leave they can use reasonable force to make you leave.
Somebody posted about what you can do if you have reasonable grounds to suspect a criminal offence - that may also be correct, it's not something I know much about.
Just back from America, they have a slightly different approach…
chap wandering around the front of the shop with a bulletproof vest with a large ‘private security’ Velcro tag on, big holstered handgun.
Thieves can be a little more robust there
"I know the procedure"
Thieves are scumbags.
Or maybe they’re just people who can’t afford to make ends meet on ridiculously low incomes or insufficient benefits? People shoplift for many reasons, those doing it for fun or out of evil intent are probably a tiny minority.
^^ so those of us in retail are to put up with shoplifting and all the sh!t that comes with it because it’s a result of government policies or other employers pay rates? No bother, I will let my colleagues know and explain this to my customers, in fact I will stand at the door and hand bags out the the poor theives as none of it is their fault. They are not nicking life's essentials where I work, the vast majority are nicking luxuries they want or things they can sell for their next fix so your comment does wash with my experiences of the thieving shoplifters. If their benefits/wages don’t stretch to that nice fragrance, top of the range razor blades or makeup then go without or buy the cheaper ones. They certainly aren’t nicking the multi vitamins to help them supplement there poor diet/health or the medicines for their sick child.
would you have the same sentiments for someone who stole your bike or entered your house and took your TV, maybe threatening you at the same time but it’s ok because they can’t make ends meet and your insurance will cover it, it’s not any inconvenience to you.
Or maybe they’re just people who can’t afford to make ends meet on ridiculously low incomes or insufficient benefits
Perhaps you should get a job a as a security guard, then you could help them out by paying for all the stuff they’ve nicked. Win win. 👍
As above, the majority are not stealing life essentials either.
Or maybe they’re just people who can’t afford to make ends meet on ridiculously low incomes or insufficient benefits
A couple of weeks ago I saw two guys running out our local Tesco express with arms full of booze and snacks. One had so much that he dropped half the snacks, tried to pick them up, dropped them again then ran off with what he had left. These weren’t poor people desperately trying to get by without starving - they were thieving scumbags who knew that the police would probably be way too busy to deal with them , even if the shop bothered to report them.
"I’m not sure if anyone has answered Cougar’s question."
It was answered correctly in the very first reply, which is why I didn't bother saying the same.