[Closed] Do radio stations get offered artist royalty discounts?

😆

no - royalties rates set centrally and are collected by the PRS - the artist (or their management/label) don't get any say in that side of things.

Though I am convinced that the BBC has some kind of digital system which lists recently played things that other DJ's can see and be inspired by. I always hear a random tune on Radio 6 that makes me go 'god, I haven't heard that in 20 years!' ... and then I hear it 4 times over the next week, all played by different DJs.

Though I am convinced that the BBC has some kind of digital system which lists recently played things that other DJ’s can see and be inspired by. I always hear a random tune on Radio 6 that makes me go ‘god, I haven’t heard that in 20 years!’ … and then I hear it 4 times over the next week, all played by different DJs.

Not just me then!

Are there reduced rates on older tracks? So stuff from the 70s, for example, do the royalties go down as tracks become older and less contemporary?

I think eventually they go royalty free. I'm sure there was a hoo-har a few years ago because the Beatles back catalogue was going to start being free, and the time limit got extended.

edit - I just asked a lad at work, owns a record label, good mates with Rod Steward etc. etc. It was Cliff Richard, (coincidentally) who managed to get the copyright limit extended from 50 to 100 years when someone wanted to re-release his early stuff and wouldn't have needed permission.

Also PRS values

£18 per play for Radio 1
£20 per play for Radio 2
£125 per play for Radio Wales!!

One of his bands was Welsh, they had a minor hit a few years ago and he bought a decent second hand Golf with his cut of the royalties. Nice.

Also PRS values

£18 per play for Radio 1
£20 per play for Radio 2
£125 per play for Radio Wales!!

Compared to the 0.0017p/stream* on the likes of Spotify...
*Or close to that, I can’t remember the exact, derisory amount that gets paid; the lad at work would require several million streams to afford his golf, highly unlikely ’cos his share would possibly cover the insurance.

some kind of digital system which lists recently played things that other DJ’s can see and be inspired by. I always hear a random tune on Radio 6 that makes me go ‘god, I haven’t heard that in 20 years!’ … and then I hear it 4 times over the next week, all played by different DJs.

or more likely the DJs listen to 6Music when they're not on air and hear it and go "that's great, I haven't heard that in 20 years, I want to hear it again"

I felt a wee bit for Cliff getting a tough time recently with no evidence but his records are still dire canny listen to any of them, then there's Barry Manilow oh boy

Do regular presenters get any/much opportunity to curate their music, or is it all preselected for them?

Have specifically heard DJs on 6Music saying they want to play a song/artist but they can’t because the person before them did or they played it the day before.

Fairly sure they have rules to prevent overloading of non-playlist stuff

Why do, such as Radio Wales above, pay more?
Surely they have a much lower listenership, so should pay less?
Also, do some Radio stations get paid by the record companies to play their records?
Capital being a prime example, who play pretty much the same 10-15 songs 5 or 6 times a day, interspersed with an occasional one that gets played once a day.

Compared to the 0.0017p/stream* on the likes of Spotify…

You do know that there is a difference between Radio 2 playing a song and 6 million people hearing whereas when Spotify plays a song, normally one 1 person hears it....

Also, do some Radio stations get paid by the record companies to play their records?
Capital being a prime example, who play pretty much the same 10-15 songs 5 or 6 times a day, interspersed with an occasional one that gets played once a day.

All radio stations are the same Inc R1 / R1, they have weekly playlists of what is popular / they think will be popular and those songs will get played x times per day, with other more random stuff in between.

eg https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2qNJsnjYFvbLrK9CZ0CfYfM/radio-2-new-music-playlist

I just asked a lad at work, owns a record label, good mates with Rod Steward etc. etc. It was Cliff Richard, (coincidentally) who managed to get the copyright limit extended from 50 to 100 years when someone wanted to re-release his early stuff and wouldn’t have needed permission.

Entitlement to copyright royalties differs depending upon whether you are the author or just performer. Authors/composers elapse 70 years after death of author, performers 70 years after the recording. Both were extended but first beneficiaries will be people like Cliff Richard, Tom Jones and Shirley Bassey.

vinnyeh
Subscriber

Do regular presenters get any/much opportunity to curate their music, or is it all preselected for them?

The BBC Stations have a Daytime Playlist Structure decided by a playlist panel, not the DJ's (although on some stations they will have influence), Over night shows are different. I'll stick to daytime here.

Outside of the Playlist Structure (A, B, C & additional Feature lists) they then have Recurrent Playlists. Be it recent hot records, Most requested, Strong Reaction etc.

Most Spot plays will be programmed by the Producers of the show, if you hear a random classic several times in quick succession chances are its from one producer or a team of producers. It could be linked to Artist & label activity, live dates, new album etc, but often its just a creative decision from someone who can.

alanl
Member

Why do, such as Radio Wales above, pay more?

Also, do some Radio stations get paid by the record companies to play their records?
Capital being a prime example, who play pretty much the same 10-15 songs 5 or 6 times a day, interspersed with an occasional one that gets played once a day.

The Reality is BBC Wales don't pay more, its either incorrect or was reported incorrectly to the artist. It's simply not the case.

Record Labels do not pay Radio Stations, they would just buy them if that was the case. That doesn't mean other arrangement don't exist though, Playlist features for Live event performances etc.

Capital also has a playlist structure, but their operation is very different to the BBC's, Privately owned & with no real desire to play anything but hits or new music from stars. It's about the most popular current records on repeat right now. I suspect they know their audience don't listen for prolonged periods.

Another question that's often occurred to me: does the BBC pay reduced royalties for playing the 'wrong' version of tracks? Whenever they play Roni Size's Brown Paper Bag, for example, it's always an odd (not single or original album) version with vocals on it. And there's an awful Neptunes remix of Sympathy for the Devil that they tend to default to.

I can never work out why they don't just play the right version - maybe it's royalties??

I was a radio plugger for about 15 yrs at Radio 1 & othearz etc virtually day. As already & correctly stated there is a playlist committee at R1 which involves head of music head of daytime executive producers producers & so on. To get a record on the playlist it has to be brought to the panel but there’s a lot of work that has to be done before that, the caveat being if the track in question is already by a global star & it’s a sure fire winner.
Different stations have different panels some are really small maybe 2/3 people sometimes just the HOM.
The only presenters that have totally freedom are late night specialists but even then they will only play what they feel fits in their remit or is good for them (except John Peel who truly could & did play what he wanted).
I crossed over into mainstream various specialists inc Roots Manuva Mark B & Blade Pendulum Benga Andy C Jurassic 5 Mos Def Shy FX etc etc the amount of work we had to do to convince DJs to play these artist was quite exhausting & really comprehensive. DJs won’t take a risk unless you convince them they will look cool & you need to lay all the foundations first. Then there’s the edit & the unwritten rules surrounding it - less than 3 minutes long & something has to ‘happen’ within 20 secs.
There’s also a huge pecking order with pluggers who gets access to what producers more frequently what relationships they have with them. Also a plunger that deals with mainly commercial music will never be employed to promote a ground up specialist act & vice versa.
This is still the case those has been significantly disrupted by Spotify & Apple Music etc.

Really interesting read carbonfiend - I never knew the machinations that went on. So for someone like Craig Charles or Don Letts, do they build their own tracklist per show, or is that similarly through pluggers and producers? And when it comes to, say, Trevor Nelson's show, presumably that's more production panel-based, but how come things like early 00s UK garage have come back round again?

I remember hearing in the early days of 6Music that it basically changed how DJs could operate their shows. There's a playlist, sure, but the DJ was able to include one track of their own choice every hour; to DJs like Keaveny coming from XFM, who had had at best one choice per 3-hour slot, it was amazing.
Since then it does feel that the 6Music playlist has become less loose and more restrictive though; there's definitely 5-10 tracks that are "once every show", and another 10-15 that are "twice per day".

I used to work at an Oxford newspaper. The editor wanted Radio Oxford on all the time in the newsroom incase anything happened or to get ideas for local stories. I am convinced that someone in the station was shagging Cher because we got Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves at least 3 times a day.
We later developed a business relationship with JackFM so we had that on a lot of the time. Thats was just a supplied music stream that occasionally stopped for news or weather updates until the late shift.

I used to plug to both Don Letts & Craig Charles. These two presenters had almost exclusive free reign on their plays but you would still send them music as they weren't really the sort of DJs that would go out and keep themselves updated on new trends in their genre. EG I used to promote a San Fan label called Stones Throw who did funk compilations & also an artist called Sharon Jones so I would send them to Craig Charles as I knew he wouldn't know of them. a lot of these DJs are busy being themselves so don't really get their hands dirty looking & searching for brand new stuff. I did loads of things with Trevor Nelson including providing hand claps and tambourine for a Slum Village session they did for him but the more successful the DJ even specialists the less likely they are to play new music or take risks they will more likely do it near the end of the show. What you find is most specialist pluggers like myself knew way more about new music even before the most cutting edge DJs - it was our job to find it & then approach the label to be the PR rep. The 'fights' that went on to get deals with labels and artists was intense coz everybody is looking for the next Massive Attack if that makes sense. We also knew the shops spent lots of time in there. As a general rule there were two types of plugger - second hand car dealers who just dealt with mainstream music and really had no love of music as such but were excellent at promoing crossover hits and then people like myself who lived for music & trying to get underground music out to a wider audience.
6 Music was interesting as the heads of music there were always in battle with the djs as most in my time were previously involved in the industry (artists bands etc) so always thought they knew more than the HOMs the best example of this was Tom Robinson (nice guy) but thought he knew everything about music coz he was Tom Robinson of course.
There's even lists within lists so not all A list records get the main A list rotation only the top top major releases would get breakfast time play and then it would move further down as the day went on. interestingly I built up such a profile for crossing over and breaking new and interesting projects I was employed by larger major labels to start campaigns for them so the artist could gain 'credibility' then once this was gained they took it all inhouse and it then went mainstream. I did this with The Streets & Amy Whinehouse to name two I was given all the promo material with strict instructions to not allow and daytime shows have the music I also arranged particular remixes of these artist for specialist shows. Once this ground was covered then it moved up another level and so on. Sometimes you would spend a year building a profile for an artist at specialist level before any attempt was made to crossover.
Regards what are called spot plays I think the one that gave me most satisfaction was getting Jo Whiley to play Aphex Twin Windowlicker. Almost anything different electronic or UK based hip hop drum & bass etc you heard on Radio 1 daytime between about 2003-2008ish was from me.

We later developed a business relationship with JackFM

I friends with one of the founders of Jack FM (or at least one of the early core team). She's at BBC Oxford now.