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Currently have a 5 seat Berlingo which is the closest to a van I've owned.
The rear seats are hardly ever used and spend more time down than up so I keep thinking about trading it in and getting the full van version.
The thing that's putting me off is all the vans I've seen are diesel. Mine is petrol and has been brilliant for both short and long journeys with over 50mpg on long trips. I do lots of short journeys so always gone for small petrol engines and never had to worry about DPF filters and add blue etc.
Are there any small vans with petrol engines? Or are there any diesel engines that don't suffer from lots of short journeys?
no decent van will get anywhere near 50. My Custom gets 37 and i'm doing pretty well with that.
Daughter has a Tourneo Conect petrol. We get better fuel economy with our Tourneo Custom diesel 🤣
keep thinking about trading it in and getting the full van version
The same thing but the van version? Why? I have a similar vehicle (Combo Life) and splashed a little cash on a tailored liner for the rear and use it for work (laundry) and bike carrying without having to worry about van stuff like tyre specs, speed limits, bridge and tunnel tolls, insurance, etc. Not sure what the van version would gain, maybe the flatter load area and easier to sweep out?
Why do you think you might want a van? For the extra security of bikes being out of sight?
If the current Berlingo does what you need, then car speed limits is a nice thing to have.
My L2 Transit Connect gets well over 50mpg. That's a proper van. Long 29ers roll in with both wheels on. Pre 2018 they don't have ad-blue or a wet belt but are still Euro 6 engines. It does mainly decent motorway commuting though, which definitely helps with reliability of whatever other emissions control gubbins is fitted.
If you don't want diesel there are electric versions of the Stellantis vans, but the range isn't huge.
Edit - In real world driving, van speed limits make **** all difference to journey times.
I think you’ve asked the wrong question. “Do I want a van?” Only has one answer. Any bloke who says they don’t want a van is obviously lying.
The question you’re really asking is “can I justify buying myself a van?”. I think we all know the answer to this. Do keep us posted on which van you end up buying 😃
Can you take the back seats out altogether? I had a van for about 10 years, the back row of seats acted as a home for spiders in the back of the garage for all but about 6 months of that time.
Do you want all your friends asking if you'd help them move a sofa, or take an old wardrobe to the tip, or pick up plasterboard from B&Q for them? No? Then you don't want a van. Tint your Berlingo's rear windows if you're worried about bike security and forget the whole van idea.
It's a no from me, for all the reasons noted, plus I'm pretty sure you can only get barn door Berlingo vans, and sliding door at one side, and tailgate>>barn doors.
I've currently got a 1.6 petrol Berlingo with 125k on it and while it's horrifically sluggish, thirsty (37mpg average), and £400 a year to tax, I still wouldn't swap it for a diesel. In fact, a mate offered to do that, for his 60k 1.6HDi, but it eats injectors. My old 1.6HDi had turbo issues I never got to the bottom of. The newer engines have an even worse reputation.
If it's working for you, stick with it and avoid all the hassle of buying and selling a vehicle, and owning a modern diesel engine.
The van speed limits thing isn't really about journey times - it is more the unpleasantness of driving places like the A75 doing 50mph and having an impatient queue of cars, other vans and Irish trucks glued to your bumper.
Our current N1 crew van classes as a DPV so can legally do the car limits but would be a visit to court to argue. The old M1 Dispatch Combi we had was less of a worry.
The Hull P&O ferry is also significantly dearer as a van vs identical dimensioned "high car".
Our next vehicle will be a van based M1 mpv (i.e. not van) and probably electric - eCourier Tourneo, eBerlingo or Kia PV5 (just wish they'd put bigger batteries in the small vans).
Van VED is currently £345 pa, and tip access needs a permit, but those are the only two issues IME.
Vans tend not to be quite as trick as cars and have fewer gadgets to go wrong; this can be a disadvantage so make sure that you look for passenger airbags, aircon, etc that you'd take for granted with a car. It also makes them cheaper to service/fix
Mine's been handy, especially for shifting jnr around with uni, etc.
Just take it out for an hour every so often at 40mph to clear the DPF
I'm considering going the other way, I have a 2008 VW Caddy which is great but I'm slowly realising if I'd picked up a 'Life' I think which is the car/MPV version I'd have a bit more versatility:
Ability to have more than 1 passenger and all 3 (or more) bikes inside the vehicle still.
Better spec (mine is admittedly very builder spec. so manual windows, no air-con etc.)
Car speed limits, not so much for journey time but to have a bit more leeway making overtakes & not holding up traffic on NSL single carriageways.
Less of a target for thieves potentially? I think a passenger vehicle with tinted rear windows is probably less likely to be broken into than a van by your common or garden thief interested in tools etc. rather than a targeted theft of bikes which is a separate issue.
I'm firmly in the 'why would you swap it for a panel Van' camp.
Lets say you change your Passenger Berlingo MPV to a Berlingo Diesel:
Upside - you can't really ruin the interior if you fill it with gravel or hedge clippings
Downsides - Looks rubbish. Barn Doors. No, or 1 side door. Lower spec. More likely to have been abused in earlier life. Limited colours. Much more likely to get broken into. Cannot refit seats on the occasion you want to take passengers. Lower speed limits. Can't go to the tip. Significantly colder and noisier. etc etc..
Its not for me. (I drive a 'MPV' version of a van for the reasons above).
I didn't even realise small vans had a different speed limit.
The main reason for a van is being able to close the doors with things out of site and have things like shelving.
I don't agree with, (or on a couple of cases care about) most of those downsides, but one that's definitely wrong is the point about colder and noisier. Proper vans have a bulkhead, mine is quite a bit quieter than our hatchback Seat Leon and the heating/AC works quickly because it's only dealing with the cab.
The tip thing is also location dependent. I can take mine in our local tips in Cheshire.
Im with @jfab on this. Also have a caddy (lwb) but starting to think i should have held out for a caddy life for extra seats (although only one extra would do) and car like speed limits
The speed limit thing varies, some 'car-derived' small vans have car speed limits but for whatever reason the VW Caddy doesn't fit into that category - a Berlingo etc. might?
For me it's the lack of a 3rd seat that's the biggest drawback to a small van but that may not be an issue.
The plus point is I insulated and re-lined it over a day or so and it's quieter and warmer than most cars that age now and like you say you can attach all sorts of storage hooks, nets etc to the ply lining to keep things tidy and off the floor. Mine only has a sliding door on the passenger side so the driver side wall is free for attaching things to/against.
The speed limit thing varies, some 'car-derived' small vans have car speed limits but for whatever reason the VW Caddy doesn't fit into that category - a Berlingo etc. might?
Gonna need something like a Corsa van or similar. It’s based on Max Gross weight iirc.
Cost me dearly driving both ways through the Rotherhithe tunnel some years ago. £80 fine each way iirc. Was only in a Connect.
Always prefer a car myself, despite having a 2024 Connect with DSG and pretty much every option.
I’d still rather use the 20 year old Astra Club, with half the power, none of the options.
It’s quieter, doesn’t feel so gloomy inside.
Duel carriageways aren’t a pain in a car. If you’ve stick to the van 60 limit, it means you aren’t much quicker than the trucks, which is a pain in the arse.
I was thinking this too, Mrs R has recently bought a nice car and I have a 7 year old Karoq, which is great. That used to be the car for setting off etc, but now we use the new one. I was mulling over getting rid of mine and buying something like the Nissan Townstar with bench seat, so three upfront and a compact size overall but plenty of space for house/uni/tip/eBike moving duties.
The speed thing never crossed my mind, but I don’t think it would be affected much anyway ?
Van speed limits are rarely enforced in my experience.
I’ve known van drivers not be aware of them, until they get a ticket which is a little bit over for a car, but a lot over for a van.
Bench seats in small commercials tend to be too small for two adults and uncomfortable on long journeys for one.
Been through a similar thing recently and ended up ordering a new Caddy Maxi Life with the petrol 7 speed auto box and only 5 seats.
It's a replacement for a diesel Rifter that's been really good apart from being a modern diesel...
We were almost temped to get a commercial version but the lack of speed restriction and extra seats if we need them swung it for us.
Only downside is the build date isn't until some time in December with an estimated delivery date of February.
For me it's the lack of a 3rd seat that's the biggest drawback to a small van but that may not be an issue.
I've got a Connect crew cab lwb, 3 seats in the back if needed with a sliding cargo cage. It's got no rear or side windows so everything is out of sight. Its a good compromise if you want a van but want to keep the option of carrying more people occasionally
The thing that's putting me off is all the vans I've seen are diesel
HVO100 diesel not available in the UK?
Max plated gvw to be a car derived van is 2 tonnes, so most Berlingos etc are now over. Anything in the last few years will say car derived van on the reg doc. Prior to that there was a grey area where it wasn't always documented. DPV doesn't go on the reg doc either, and DVSA's stance was it just had to meet the criteria - but that was only their interpretation and it might have to be decided in court of law.
Speed limit restrictions don't matter until they matter....
My Berlingo is 1.4 tonnes. According to the recent service report anyway. I'd be surprised if the Berlingo van is much more. Maybe the long wheelbase one is.
I went with a car classed van. Vivaro Life. Wasn't cheap as all the flashy bits and removable leather seats add a fortune on it. Tax is at £600ish as its classed as an expensive car (bought it at 3 years old). Seats dont get used loads, but it doubles as a camper, tent hauler or bike carrier. I bought a roll of rubber matting and cut it to size if I take some or all seats out
No van speed limits, still get stopped at the tip until they see the seats.
OP I don't think you'll do much better than what you have unless you want newer.
My Berlingo is 1.4 tonnes
Yeah, that'll be unloaded. If it was a van it would need a payload of 600kg to have car speed limits, which is petty low. Berlingo size vans are usually about 750 to 1000kg payload.
The thing that's putting me off is all the vans I've seen are diesel
Be a few years for these to be my standard "3 year old second hand buy" approach, but I quite like the the look of the Kia PV5 Cargo. I'm not sure if the grants available are for business users
I've got a Caddy (MPV). Two of the three rear seats came out about a month after buying it and haven't been back in.
I prefer it looking more car like as it gets used for that. Privacy class and a black sheet make the bikes all but invisible. If I was worried about the bikes, I would be worried regardless of the vehicle.
The only thing I would change in the future would be getting the long wheel based. We have to park on the street so the shorter one was preferred. . Most bikes go in without taking a wheel off. My enduro bike does but I normally take the front off to keep the back of the rear seats clean.
It would be hard to justify going any bigger. Rarely need space for more than one other.. It easily does me, a weekends camping and biking kit. I like the fact it almost drives like a car.
I had a van, a 97 L1 H2 Ducato for 14 years. Then bought an estate car which I've now all but given to junior. Zoe is current transport. The van was bought when I had a bike business so transported lots of them. It also doubled as a camper with a removeable bed so it slept three in comfort.
On the plus side it was handy for moving things like sofas, washing machines, building materials and so on - but hiring for a day would have been cheaper than owning. It provided accomodation on long trips and we had some good holidays in it when junior was little. It was mechaniically very robust and didn't rust, a 2.5 non-turbo diesel, never let us down.
On the downside it was noisy and uncomfortable to drive, I got out and threw rocks at it on one occasion my back was aching so much. I sometimes lay down in the back while Madame drove to ease the misery of sitting bolt upright in a seat with no support where needed. I took the bulkhead out so the seat would tip a bit more and took a hammer to the seat to reshape it. When the radio packed up I didn't bother fixing it, I couldn't hear it above the noise anyhow. At each fill it hurt my wallet and pained me to think how much I was contributing to climatic change. It was a target for thieves trying to nick the whole thing, the contents or spare parts. The size was a pain, wing mirrors consumable, parking more difficult, supermarket and beach car park barriers too low, Madame didn't want to drive it in confined places.
Now there are just two of us and Zoe. I've got used to taking both wheels out to get the bikes in, it's comfortable (no desire to throw rocks at it), silent and makes me smile. It costs so little to charge at home I don't take note and it's cheaper than fuel on long trips. For big things we hire or get them delivered. It won't pull a horse box. It's not great to sleep in.
We had a van, an ex-British Gas vauxhall combo, for biking duties it was great and I enjoyed driving it more than most of the cars we have owned, there’s something relaxing about being in a knackered old van. Good mileage, easy to park, relatively secure nd even being tall it was quite comfortable. We only had it for moving bikes and it did some big journeys for that - London to Morzine was fun.
When it died van prices had rocketed and I ended up with a Skoda roomster as a bike hauler, which is slightly smaller than a berlingo and the rear seat come out. Tbh it’s much better than the van, and carries all we need to cart round. If you’ve already got a car version berlingo I don’t see many benefits from swapping it for a van model.
Ignore
double post due to shitty forum formatting.
I think you’ve asked the wrong question. “Do I want a van?” Only has one answer. Any bloke who says they don’t want a van is obviously lying.
What I want isn’t really classed as a van, exactly…
I had a Mk7 Transhit LWB. We bought it for MrsRNP's business and it was perfect for carrying stock and doing general van type stuff. It was also great for bike hauling duties - we had an old sofa we chucked in for chilling out on during BPW lunch breaks.
However!......like Edukator the pain of driving it long distance crippled me, we used to do mid Spain business trips and the shoulder pain would remain for weeks after. Doesn't happen doing similar distances in Volvo or Porsche cars.
The biggest issue though was maintenance and repair - it was an absolute POS designed to be built as quickly as possible but without a single thought for whoever would need to service or maintain it in years to come. I once lost my rag with it that badly I took a ballpein hammer to the front wing Basil Fawlty style.
I was happy when (despite annual waxoyl and winter washing of the underside) the sills rotted away and it failed it's MOT. I made no attempt to repair it and sold it for scrap.
Bought an old Berlingo Multispace instead which has been far superior.
Have a 2015 Citroen Dispatch/Jumpy and like it. Has a bed about permanently put in the back as it gets used for sleeping in, but it's easy to get out and bike fits in the back easily. I also like the space in the front. For me, as a tall person, I have a lot of headroom and it's comfortable enough on long journeys and will do about 1000km on a single tank of diesel.
It's a van. It looks like a van. It drives like a van. It's also my only vehicle, so gets used for everything.
If the OP's current Berlingo is fit and problem-free, I'd stick with it - swapping to another vehicle always has the risk of the unknown. Could then adapt the interior to make it more van-like if that's what you're after.
The Hull P&O ferry is also significantly dearer as a van vs identical dimensioned "high car".
This annoys me too. Little difference is size/weight between many T6-sized vans and the larger SUVs, yet cost difference is significant. I queried DFDS recently who confirmed (in writing!) I can book my Transit Custom dual-cab L2 (L 5.4m x H 2.0m) as a high car for the Newcastle-Amsterdam crossing, saving a fortune. Not sure if they'd extend that for a van without glazing on the side mid-panel though. Haven't looked at P&O Hull ferry for that yet.
Had one Vauxhall Combo (crap) then 4 VW Caddy and now a VW Buzz and used these as bike haulers/commuting vehicles for the past 15 years. All of the VWs have been very comfortable for even the longest of journeys, I honestly don't think I could go back to a car now as the security and convenience of a van far outweigh any compromises.