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I've been considering campervans and motorhomes for a while now (e.g. see my thread on the viability of converting an ambulance). Having one has always appealed but I think I should sound out the reality. Here are my pros and cons considering a VW Transporter size campervan, against a car or larger motorhome
Pros: Practical for everyday use. Can keep it at home. Could replace a car. Can get where a car can get. Can be used for days out. Low depreciation compared to a car (if pro. conversion).
Cons: Small for a family to holiday in. Bikes have to go outside. If used regularly and not just for leisure, its mileage will rack up. Higher running costs than a car. Fitting child car seats might be difficult. Pop top not as comfortable as a fully enclosed van (and therefore holidays restricted to warmer months?).
We've hired vans before but not since we became a family (of 3 at the moment...). I think we should hire another one and give it a go.
Also I have an idea that a Kombi van with some removable "camper" bits could be a good compromise. E.g Amdro http://www.amdro.co.uk/. Anything else out there like this?
No you don't, you want to give it to me instead
I found a wee van based camper the worst of both worlds.
It was a crap every daycar and a crap camper
My big vans even crapper at being an every day car but it doesn't pretend it could be.
Depends if you have perminant off-street parking for such a vehicle or are willing to store it. It's rather anti social to leave out on the street
How often will you actually use it? It's quite possible that hiring an adequately sized motor home occasionally is your best option.
We have a Traffic-based campervan that works well for 2 of us. I don't have to use it for commuting and we have a car too.
As a one or two person easy "get away for the weekend vehicle" they are great. With a family its hard.
When I got mine we had two 7 year olds. They slept in the awning. When the third came along she slept on the front seats. It was only a year or two before the youngest had outgrown that and we changed to a caravan. Much better for families, not so easy to just jump in an go, or for solo trips.
I found a wee van based camper the worst of both worlds.
It was a crap every daycar and a crap camper
My big vans even crapper at being an every day car but it doesn’t pretend it could be.
This, I thought I wanted a may have wanted one too, turned out I didn't really, YMMV. I prefer family rooms at yh's tbh.
It's all a compromise. My van has a removable kitchen cooking section I knocked up and rear seats so gets used as a daily driver. I sleep inside but with family we usually camp although we could all fit. I also use it for carrying logs and matterials for building projects (renovating our house) and towing a trailer. for me a dedicated camper would be a second under used vehicle although it would allow for easier sleeping inside and more facilities. I would need more than a small car for everyday duties so then would be running one large van as a camper and either a small van (with no seats for family) and tow with the camper or one large van and one medium van.
I bought a campervan at the start of the year, I'll give you my views on some of the points you've raised.
For starters, our's isnt a VW. Its a Renault Traffic Sport SWB with a full conversion inc pop-top. Its essentially the same all over minus the VW scene tax.
I sold my car in order to buy and run it. For me, I can't afford to run two vehicles but my other half has a car so we do have another car in the household. I commute 3 days a week to the office, and WFH for 2. I commute in the van and its no issue whatsoever.
With regards to mileage, we've already done 10k so far this year but we've hammered it. Been Scotland 3 x times, Cornwall once, lots and lots of weekends in Wales. My yearly commuting mileage is only around 3k. I wouldn't get hung up about mileage, its there to be used so make the most of it. The more important thing is looking after the van - regular servicing, decent tyres, regularly cleaning and taking care of all the insides etc. I reckon we'll hit 18k this year with the remaining trips planned.
Running costs - yes its more but not hugely so. For fuel its working out around 38mpg. Servicing is more expensive. Tax is £240? My insurance cost is no different from having a car.
Day to day usage - the only thing you may struggle with is some multi-stories (depending on van roof) and skip runs. For the rest, if a car can park there so can a SWB van.
Pop top - I've slept up in ours once but really its for the kids. If you get a thermal wrap around for the colder months its fine. We have an electric oil rad for winter (and we'll get hookup as well) or get a diesel heater fitted.
Bikes on the outside - I was wary of this to begin with. But I've got two huge secure gold rated locks which lock the bikes to the towbar itself whilst on the (towbar) bike rack, and a cover to go over them all. Never had any issues at all. Obviously I still wouldn't leave them unattended in a dodgy carpark etc, but campsites have been absolutely fine.
It's been a revelation having it though. There's been many times we've finished work on a friday, packed some clothes, chucked some beers and wine in the fridge and hit the road, and a few hours later all setup somewhere awesome ready to go hiking/biking/(insert outdoor activity) for the weekend.
The last bit is important - my view is that they're suited to outdoor active lifestyles where you need to bring your own equipment and there's not normally the option of accommodation nearby. If its mainly just general sightseeing stuff then it may not be for you.
We have a VW T3 camper with a rigid pop top, making it 4 berth.
It does the job pretty well but the issues come when you want to hop from site to site or leave the camp for an outing.
The amount of kit we have shoehorned into it makes for an annoying game of tetris when you need to put it back into van mode ! With a 2nd child on the way the plan looks to be to sell it and go back to tenting - which we don't really fancy (this van is so comfy and warm- can't remember being cold in it even at Christmas)
Or the other, more popular option - building a new camper based on an L2H2 Peugeot Boxer or similar with fixed bed with a garage underneath- hopefully it won't too much of a pig driving around town.
You should consider where you might use it most too.
We are just back from 6 weeks round Europe in a VW California as a family of 4, the weather was great the whole time and the Cali was perfect. We took a large awning with us but by the second week we had stopped using it as it was surplus to requirements. We did everything outside, including cooking as it was far too hot in the van, the van just became somewhere to sleep. Bikes being outside was no issue either, they got a bit of rain on them a couple of nights and I didn't feel they were any less secure than being locked in a motorhome garage with a flimsy door.
Last year we rented a larger converted Fiat with fixed beds, around southern Europe. The fixed beds made it a bit easier to move off site every day, but otherwise having such a large van felt pretty pointless as we were never in it other than to sleep. It wasn't as nice to drive, my wife in particular didn't like driving the bigger vehicle so more of the driving had to be done by me, you couldn't fit into all car parks/tunnels/small towns. Ferries were more expensive too as the Cali can go on them as a car.
If we were using it more to holiday in this country/other less sunny spots, I've no doubt the benefits of the bigger camper would make it more of a contender as being in the Cali in the cold and rain with 2 kids isn't much fun.
There’s been many times we’ve finished work on a friday, packed some clothes, chucked some beers and wine in the fridge and hit the road, and a few hours later all setup somewhere awesome ready to go hiking/biking/(insert outdoor activity) for the weekend.
To be fair this can be done with any recreational vehicle, and even tents if you are efficient.
To be perfectly fair many people here sound like perfect candidates for caravans
Re covers taylormade do a good bike cover *designed for Fiamma racks so check slot/fitting arrangement on cover suits before buying
I use a cable round the bikes then the taylormade then a kanulock strap wrapped round everything as both security and Anti flap
@doubleu what bike cover are you using?
Just this cheap one from amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CIE270Q withan extra bungee round it. Does the job ok.
To be fair this can be done with any recreational vehicle, and even tents if you are efficient.
Yep I agree with that, we did it with tents for a few years. Now we don't have to deal with a wet tent after getting home!
Pop top not as comfortable as a fully enclosed van (and therefore holidays restricted to warmer months?).
He he he. No. Not at all.
My 5 and 7year olds happily slept in our poptop in Cairngorm carpark in winter. It was minus 9 outside and minus 5 in the van, so presumably around minus 7 in the poptop.
I did slightly worry that they would wake up dead, but they were fine in their Seriously good sleeping bags.
Having said which it would have been even nicerer in a proper motorhome.
Bikes on the outside is a totall no no from me. Blasted with high speed spray when driving.
I have hired a bunch of vans from small people carrier ones to huge motorhomes. Pick the compromises you can live with. They are all well described above. for me the vw sized ones are too crap for camping ( fold out bed is a pain and storage space is so limited. cooker and fridge tiny. ) I cannot imagine a family of four being comfy in one. BIg ones are great for camping but crap to drive and you can put the bikes inside with the right layout.
So pick which compromises you can live with and go with that. for me hiring is the best option
My home insurance covers my bike inside a registered camper van.
The same home insurance doesn't cover bikes on the back of same vehicle regardless of lock.
Silly I know but that's one of the main reasons I'm a stickler for bikes inside.
Bikes on the outside is a totall no no from me. Blasted with high speed spray when driving.
If you were to see the dirt on my bikes after a long trip on the towbar you'd see that most of it is being sucked back in behind the van, so it's never been a huge problem for me. The only issue I've had is rotor contamination and that's easy solved with a plastic bag.
Just this cheap one from amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CIE270Q withan extra bungee round it. Does the job ok.
Cool. I've seen various reports of covers splitting. I'll give that a go. It's as much for a bit of added security really.
Just back from a scottish trip in high top T4 with our 2 year old. We got the van before the child, it was great for a run up to Lofoten. 2 y/o won't sleep alone up top yet, so it was very cramped for 3 and moderately to very sleep deprivation inducing until we got a tent which we now fling up nearby, though obviously restricts us to parking spots with a safe grassy bit available.
High top ranges from 30mpg at motorway speeds to 37mpg at around 50mph. Occasionally we can't get under a barrier. We do use it as 2nd vehicle, though its pricier (and noisier) to run as you say.
You are right about child seats. I decided to replace the rock&roll bed (JDS Metaltech in Worksop were helpful). Few child seats take a 2 point belt especially once they grow past a certain size.
Years ago I had a talbot with wooden pop top. Nice and comfy, only with snow outside on a winter climbing trip did I once lower the pop top for warmth. Considerably larger (room for bikes inside when sleeping) and much worse on MPG.
In between I had a tiny vauxhall combo. Maybe a viable solution if you want to be a 1 vehicle household, but when running a separate car was excessively small. Fine to sleep a night in the back, crap for hanging out on a rainy day.
Bikes outside on the T4 - well locked - but I wouldn't park anywhere dodgy.
The main pro/con depends on whether you like flexibility. If you want to pre book somewhere comfy to stay (even if it's just a campsite where you'll put up a big tent for a week) don't bother with camper, get a normal van if you need more kit space. If like me, you love holidays where you don't know where you'll be the following evening, chasing weather windows across europe on a whim, enjoying the random parkups as much as the five star locations - camper is the right choice. Assuming they still let us into europe :/
To be perfectly fair many people here sound like perfect candidates for caravans
Yep. I have majorly considered it but the 2 no go draw backs of the sites (> 50% of the sites we use are no caravans) and the speed (Dorset to Fife and Perthshire and beyond, our big holiday of the year most years means the speed difference add a big time difference to a long journey) is what stop me.
Higher running costs? Who’s told you that? Mines my daily runner and no more or less expensive to own or run than a normal hatchback. Sure if you buy a knackered van to begin with you’re going to be chasing your tail but that is the same as with any vehicle.
The answer is, there are no answers. It’s all a compromise. I’ve had my camper now for 3 years, it’s been great but the kids are starting to put grow it. We use an awning for longer stays but then you’re suffering all the downsides as camping, and any larger vehicle wouldn’t be practical for use as my daily runner so affordability comes into it.
Considered caravanning but without the get up and go in an instant convenience of having a van on the drive we doubt we’d use it that much.
But the camper van is a brilliant thing. Nothing wrong with wanting one. I’ve used it for a few weekend biking holidays without the family so can travel light and simply so had good use out of it. Think we’ll be getting rid next year though as we’re not going to be using it much over the next few years as we’ve other plans for family holidays. But been great while we’ve had it. No regrets.
Of course running costs will be higher on a camper than a wee hatchback. MPG, VED and Insurance.
i've pondered this a bit. Whilst in theory i'd love a campervan. It would probably have to replace the car which wouldn't happen. And for the amount I can get away at the moment it makes more sense just to book a hotel
Of course running costs will be higher on a camper than a wee hatchback. MPG, VED and Insurance.
We have a 54 plate T5 camper and a 55 plate Mazda 2 (1.4 I think)
Insurance on the van is £250, on the car is £200
Tax is the same
MPG is high 30's on the van and low 40's on the car.
So, yeah, van is more, but it's pretty marginal.
"Of course running costs will be higher on a camper than a wee hatchback. MPG, VED and Insurance."
It depends what you are comparing it to tbf. Our Scudo camper van has VED of £21 pm, returns >34mpg and insurance wise is on par with our car. That's broadly equivalent to the vauxhall vectra it replaced.
We don't tend to use the camper van that much in summer oddly, but it means doing stuff in winter is all the more comfortably - somewhere warm and dry after hill walking is a blessing, off the hill slippers on, heating on and make some hot chocolate. Bliss. It also means we continue getting away every second weekend year round, regardless.
I really like ours but more than a long weekend and I am starting to look forward to a better bed at home...
Sounds like you guys are comparing nice vans to average cars in this running costs thing
skoda octavia 07 plate - 55mpg long term average
t4 1997 - 33mpg average, more road tax
insurance is much of a muchness though can't compare like with like as we put more time on the car
both have hit us with hefty garage bills at some point though the van got the record there when the fan belt snapped, I overheated it and needed to rebore cylinders & replace head unit
Mines my daily runner and no more or less expensive to own or run than a normal hatchback.
Are you smoking crack? We have a hatchback and it does 50-60mpg, costs £20 a year to tax, insurance is low, cheaper on any toll roads and, because round where we live has parking permits priced based on engine size, is cheaper to park.
I've done holidays in rented/borrowed campers and motorhomes. The VW camper we hired was cramped, so not a great place to hang out, and there wasn't much room for the stuff that inevitably goes with adventurous holidays. The conversion job was lovely, but it was all a compromise and if I'd paid the £15k or so it cost second hand and thought about all the times I'd gone away when it basically did the same job as a tent and a stove that cost £200 I'd feel sick. And living with a van as your daily vehicle when you aren't using it as a van is a pain in the arse - harder to park, less comfortable, noisier, less fun to drive and just big. I spend a lot of time in vans and would always rather be in a car if I didn't have to cart stuff round for work.
The motorhomes I've been away in were great - big coach built 4 berthers. You can fit all your stuff in, stand up properly, you have space to move around, you can hang around in it comfortably when it's pissing it down and at least one bed stays out all the time so you don't have to do a jigsaw puzzle every bed time. Obviously the downside is that they're flipping massive and cost a fortune.
But your not factoring in the fact his camper doesn't depreciate ...or at least that's how it went last time we went through this.
I used a VW van that was part converted for commuting and it was, well, interesting. I had a car as well, but sold it as it got too expensive and the van had better economy.
People certainly give you a bit more space on the roads in a van, but it is not a car and will be harder to park, slower to drive and, with more modern cars, more expensive to run. I loved my van, I miss it now, but having something like that in Stockholm would be mad.
I'm happy with our LWB Transit, a piece of foam, sleeping bag, porta potty and dog by my side stealth van style. The Mrs apparently wants a bit more luxury and is wanting an older A class Hymer. Am trying to find the middle ground!
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I think if I were to go for a van I'd prefer to take RustyNissanPrairie's approach; i.e. not a "campervan" but a "Van that can be camped in"...
Day to day a full on camper isn't really a practical vehicle is it, not if you have a job and a family to accomodate (IMO).
You'll be lugging about all the cabinets and kit during the week just so you can use them every other weekend in the summer. But a basic van is at least a useful tool Monday to Friday as an actual van for tip[-trips and lugging stuff about.
A crew cab (with removable 2nd row?) would be ideal so you can transport friends & family (wouldn't want it as the only family car though), and when not being used for camping adventures, bikes can be moved in it, ideally without removing wheels...
The one extra thing I'd maybe want would be a pull out awning just for the extra covered space when weather isn't co-operating.
I think if I were to go for a van I’d prefer to take RustyNissanPrairie’s approach; i.e. not a “campervan” but a “Van that can be camped in”…
Day to day a full on camper isn’t really a practical vehicle is it, not if you have a job and a family to accomodate (IMO).
You’ll be lugging about all the cabinets and kit during the week just so you can use them every other weekend in the summer. But a basic van is at least a useful tool Monday to Friday as an actual van for tip[-trips and lugging stuff about.
A crew cab (with removable 2nd row?) would be ideal so you can transport friends & family (wouldn’t want it as the only family car though), and when not being used for camping adventures, bikes can be moved in it, ideally without removing wheels…
The one extra thing I’d maybe want would be a pull out awning just for the extra covered space when weather isn’t co-operating.
I did all that. Removable seats, side windows. Doesn't beat a proper conversion for the actual comfort.camping side of things but is certainly a very flexible arrangement.
As many others have already said, car/campervan/motorhome/caravan options are all compromised somewhere if you want to multi use. It's a case of really thinking about the things you are likely to do, where and when, and then what you can live with and without. Many make all permutations work, and seem happy - just be clear about what you want to do and it will make decision making easier.
The last bit is important – my view is that they’re suited to outdoor active lifestyles where you need to bring your own equipment and there’s not normally the option of accommodation nearby. If its mainly just general sightseeing stuff then it may not be for you.
This is a really good point. It is great to be able to take plenty of kit away and have it stored ready to go for a quick Friday after work get away. It's also really good to be able to get back from a ride and get changed into clean clothes, have a wash and get warm. You can do all this in a trail centre car park before carrying on to wherever you are going to stay the night or go out for dinner.
We use ours all year round so hiring wont be an option. We averaged 45 nights a year away in the last van and now I hardly ever work weekends I'm hoping to increase that substantially. If you only want one for a two week summer holiday then hiring makes more sense.
Our road bikes and mountain bikes combined are worth an absolute fortune (in our terms) and I would need to save for years to replace them. For that reason they have to be inside the van in order to be covered by insurance.
Our extra high top long wheelbase Master and the Transit we had before it will fit in a supermarket parking space (with a bit of care) and they are both actually surprisingly nice to drive. However car park height restrictions are our nemesis. Either way in our view the extra space inside is worth it. Again if we only used it in the summer it would be less of an issue as we spend most of our time outside.
Ours replaced one of our cars but that was only practical because we have limited need for a second vehicle. If we both needed to drive to work it would be harder. That said I do have business use insurance on mine and could use it.
We also don't have kids...
Are you smoking crack? We have a hatchback and it does 50-60mpg, costs £20 a year to tax, insurance is low, cheaper on any toll roads and, because round where we live has parking permits priced based on engine size, is cheaper to park.
No . Just experienced both. I’ve ever had a hatchback that returns 50-60mpg. I get 35mpg from the van, more on long journeys. Ved is cheap, insurance a few hundred quid fully comp, protected, legal protection, international breakdown cover, the works, maintenance is £250 a year service and £100 a corner for premium tyres. So I my experience absolutely bang on the normal hatchback running costs.
I changed from a family estate to a Cali Beach 3 years ago. Fantastic vehicle to drive. Very versatile for adventures, bike races, everyday use.
Took it over to France in the summer. Felt so much better to step out of after a long drive. None of the cramped sore back feeling after driving your average family car.
Running costs are not bad, not any thirstier than my old T5 Volvo XC70. Same VED. Depreciation shouldn’t be half as bad, I hope.
Downsides very compact for 4 camping sleeping in van for anything more than a long weekend/short week. We usually do a few nights then do a hotel. Nothing else really it’s ace.
No you don't.
Buy a caravan instead.
You know it makes sense. 😉
Acceptable compromises is the key point, and everyone can accommodate different things of course...
I was only speaking personally and I couldn't really justify having a full fat lifestyle bus sat cluttering up the drive 85-90% of it's life, it would need to perform some additional functions (as a normal van) so the camper side of things really becomes a secondary function, where I appreciate for other people a proper camper/conversion can be just that and works for them.
The other point is that as a family of four we'd probably end up needing either a big (LWB) van making it less practical, or supplementary camping stuff (extra tents, drive away awnings etc) sort of negating the "park up, fold the bed out and you're good" benefits. maybe when the kids leave home? Standard panel van conversions only seem to make sense for one or two people the OP says he has a (growing?) family to consider, kids complicate the whole thing unfortunately...
@RustyNissanPrairie in your LWB transit - would there be room for a king sized mattress AND two bikes inside?
Wondering if I should forget about actual camper vans and just get a LWB transit and chuck a mattress inside.
That's why I bought a big van cookea.
I use it for days out as well as nights out.
Not used it much this year due to issues with pregnancy getting in the way but the previous years getting in on a Friday night and just buggering off was great and we would do it most weekends even if just up the valley slightly. We just kept it stocked up ready to go chuck the bikes in and away we go.
Looking forward to getting away in it with the new arrival and that's exactly what we bought it for to make trips and events we travel to an easier experiance for all involved. Even down to it's much easier to justify to mum and daughter that we are going away for the weekend in October to a bike race if they have somewhere warm and comfortable to be rather than sitting freezing in a tent barely pitched on some hardcore.
But no I couldn't justify even a transit sized van if I was having to drive it round every day. A regular hatch back (of which I also have to run for the wife )is so much cheaper in every way unless you really try hard or use a faux eco petrol turbo maths to justify your diesel van .
Also, the whole "insulate the van well" - why? Is it any worse than a tent for cold? Or is this just to extend the camping season beyond what a tent can do?
Folk go way over the top with their insulation.
good ventilation is more important than over insulation.
Also, the whole “insulate the van well” – why? Is it any worse than a tent for cold? Or is this just to extend the camping season beyond what a tent can do?
Much worse than a tent for condensation. And you're trying to heat up a big space in a metal box. I find a small tent to be much warmer. Try sleeping in a car overnight and you'll know how cold it can be.
Thought you had an eberspacher scotroutes
As many folk have already mentioned, owning and running a camper van as a daily drive is always going to involve compromises - it’s just working out what things are most and least important to you. My preference is for smaller vans, like VWs, Vivaro etc., and compromise by carry the bikes on the back - but then there are only two of us. Because we wanted a secure bike garage inside the van, and (my wife) didn’t want to have the faff of awnings and pop tops, we ended up getting a LWB high roof Transit and converting it into a stealth camper ourselves. As a year round mobile base for hiking, biking etc., the Transit is brilliant - and being able to just get in and stand up is great. Fuel economy on ours isn’t bad (32mpg average) and it’s quiet, quick and reasonably comfy - been to France, Spain and Italy in it. Road tax is better than some cars we’ve had. However, as a daily drive vehicle it can be a right pain in the a**e finding parking spaces.
I ended up buying myself an old Honda Jazz as a runaround (60+ mpg!) but got shot of it recently cos it needed big money chucking at it.
I wonder if something like a new Vivaro with pop top and awning would suit you? Small enough for supermarket & town parking, no VW scene tax, good economy, and you can get loads of Vivaro conversion hardware off the shelf. FWIR when we were looking, the latest Vivaro are flatter sided and slightly wider than the VW inside. Whatever you get though, my advise would be to buy the newest and best condition van you can afford.
@RustyNissanPrairie in your LWB transit – would there be room for a king sized mattress AND two bikes inside?
Wondering if I should forget about actual camper vans and just get a LWB transit and chuck a mattress inside.
Not sure what size a King size mattress is but it's big enough if you put the bikes at 90degrees up against the back of the front seats with the bars/front wheel turned.
My van has the spinny roof top vents - on a still chilly night condensation drips off the roof, it's okay when there's a breeze. It is cold - colder than a tent but I have a 4 seasons down sleeping bag, the dog is from Finland so loves it being cold in the van.
I wonder if something like a new Vivaro with pop top and awning would suit you? Small enough for supermarket & town parking, no VW scene tax, good economy, and you can get loads of Vivaro conversion hardware off the shelf. FWIR when we were looking, the latest Vivaro are flatter sided and slightly wider than the VW inside.
Isn't a new Vivaro now a Peugeot/Citroen/Toyota Expert/Dispatch/Proace or whatever? Doesn't look to be as big as the old style one. It mean NOS Vivaros are cheaper to get shot of the old shape?
Yeah you still need insulation for sure but not the hermetically sealed box that smbcc members will advise you to spend thousands on
My 2p. I'm currently DIY converting a LWB Proace (Mk1). It'll be my only vehicle and I haven't driven the car since I got it (the ex is keeping that) which is a petrol CRV.
MPG in the van is better (probably similar cost due to higher diesel cost) - just over 40pmg average so far (half round town/half longer journeys)
Insurance is really cheap (~£220 FC)
Parking the van was a challenge, but fine now I've got used to it and fitted windows, removed the bulkhead and fitted a reversing camera.
I actually like driving it, the driving position is a lot higher than most SUVs and it's comfortable. It's not suited to 'making progress' but the 2l diesel is perfectly adequate and it's relaxing to drive like I'm not in a rush.
The car is a lot quieter and better spec, but the van has Aircon, Bluetooth, ESP, passenger airbag, elec windows/mirrors etc. The only thing I feel it's lacking is cruise control.
When the conversion is complete it'll be a big compromise compared to the old caravan I'll selling, but I'm thinking of it more like a 2 man tent with cooking facilities and a fridge.
It'll have a side extending bed so maintain some of its van practicality.
I'd have preferred a T5 but my budget would only stretch to a much older van with intergalactic mileage and basic spec.
I have no problem using it as an everyday vehicle. I already love it and I haven't fitted it out yet. I can't wait for the adventures to start 😊
Might be worth a read for the op;
https://campfiremag.co.uk/vw-california/
well they certainly justified that 10k saving.
Personally I'll have a fridge ,job/sink and a toilet in my next build.... I'd have put none of them in my build prior to buying the one I have as a "taster" ..... A pet hate is seeing popular spots turned into open/half buried cesspits marked by toilet paper headstones by those who are too important to take their shit home with them.
If you just want a people carrier with folding seats and a pop roof.
Look at Jap imports and save a fortune over the VW tax. Some of the granvia/previa models look top and have some Meaty engines.
*Not sure what size a King size mattress is but it’s big enough if you put the bikes at 90degrees up against the back of the front seats with the bars/front wheel turned*
Cheers!
The VW Beach above doesn't have a fridge. The fridge is one of the most important things for us. When we were between van's and staying in hotels I really missed not having a fridge.
I need icy cold beer or coke after a hot ride. And being able to take milk and cheese with us saves a fortune on a two week holiday.
I'm happy to use a pop up sink though, they are currently 99p in Aldi by the way.
The people in that link above have a fridge, just not paying VW for one. Plenty of space to stash one away in a Beach.
Agree on the japanese MPVs if you just want a flexible family vehicle. We have a Honda Stepwagon which is ace - loads of height, sliding doors, tailgate to stand under, swallows bikes (or family camping stuff) easily. But it's only as wide as a Fiesta and as long as Focus estate so great for everyday use. Going to build something Amdro-style so I can sleep in it with a bike for the odd overnight. Plus it's not based on a rough old diesel van.
Maybe I don't really get campervans, when I'm away camping the T5 lot all seem to bring enormous awnings - as big as a family tent and takes at least as long to pitch, then they can unload everything inside the van into it, in order to make enough room to make a bed up inside. Then cook outside too because you wouldn't want to get your posh cooker dirty or make your bedroom smell like chilli. Why not just put up a tent and leave all your stuff in the van?
We sometimes take a drive-away awning if we're likely to be in one place for a few days. Yep, it means we can take more kit (packraft, paddles, PFDs, wetsuits etc take up a lot of space} and gives another seating option plus somewhere to hang wet stuff. The awning doesn't take long to erect (lay it out, pump it up, connect it) and we just uncouple the van when we're out for the day. The table in the van is removable so a couple of camp chairs are fine. For shorter trips, or those where we are moving on every day, we leave it at home.
Always cook in the van though. And we have a grill, for toast. One of our little luxuries.
Again, likely all possible with a larger van, but we have good reasons for not wanting a larger van.
The article posted above on the Beach probably reflects a lot of my feelings after our last 6 weeks away in the Ocean. The Ocean was better than the bigger van, but I think the Beach would be better than the Ocean for our use, I'd happily trade it for a Beach and pocket £10k (minus whatever I need to shell out to stick a good compressor fridge in) before our next big trip. It all really comes down to personal preference and everyones personal situation.
Just this cheap one from amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CIE270Q withan extra bungee round it. Does the job ok.
Stupid question : do you leave the cover on while you're driving ? It doesn't get shredded or flap about too much ?
^^^ I have one a lot like that and remove it while driving because it flaps like hell. It's more for protection from rain when parked, and sort of security: someone needs to visibly interfere with it just to scope out whether the bikes are worth nicking so possibly its a minor deterrent, though possibly not much of one (I lack the criminal mind to judge)
But that's on a T4. I see similar covers on the back of giant fiamma vans and they don't flap, they get sucked up against the rear. So it depends on your aerodynamics.
I've a non poptop t4.
I love it as it's used as an everyday car by my missus so it's not something that I feel is dead money 48wks a year.
It's easy enough to bugger off over the weekend in.
My main bugs are as non pop top it's cramped but the other side is it'll fit under 2.0mtr barriers
Bikes are external but it's shorter than the 406 estate it replaced so is easier to park and I can get away with cheaper ferry tickets.
I'd like a bigger van but then it's not usable day to day.
It's a compromise. And if you can accept what it's compromising go for it.
Lots to think about thanks. There's definitely something in the Beach vs Ocean thing. I'd thought that a Kombi van with a pop top and seat/bed would be a good idea. Wasn't really aware of the Ocean and it's pretty much that.
There's a kit from Amdro that converts a Kombi seat into a platform bed.
The Beach is classed as a car but can a Kombi ever be?
(I'm referencing VW models for ease, open to any brand)
Idly thinking about this one too.
Is there such a thing as a van with toilet/cooking facilities to be used with a tent or is that nonsense?
We had a Citroen Dispatch LWB as race van for the teen for 3 years. Now he's driving we had if converted. Bikes can still go on the back or inside in day van mode. No pop top as if we're in the van we're sitting. One swivel seat. Bog in a buddy seat which doubles as a table. Didn't go over the top on insulation but toasty with diesel heater (with own tank so can use red). Also got gas system you top up with lpg at garage. Much cheaper. Wind out awning. Solar. Just need windows on back doors for all round view & making midge net for sliding door. Unterkampa much cheaper that VW. Van cost us 9k 3.5 years ago. Converted it this year for 6.5k. Too time poor & incompetent for self build. Did seats & some scrapyard upgrades from minibus myself.
F*cking love it!!
From panel van to this:
Then this:
I think the important thing is to really think through how you will use the van before you make a choice.
We like to move on most days, occasionally staying 2 nights and having a day of chilling, using bikes or public transport. There are 2 of us with an 8 yr old and a dog. As this thread shows there has to be a compromise somewhere.
We use a pop topped T4 Multivan with a custom built kitchen pod and a long shelf/cupboard fitted to the bottom of the bed frame for storage. We travel as light as possible to make flipping the van from bed to day van really easy and truthfully its nice to have less crap in your life sometimes.
Fridge is a coolbox, ice, beer and food bought daily, you are never far from a shop in the UK.
Toilet is a Go Outdoors Freedom Trail or a big Comfort bottle.
We use Britstops and campsites with the occasional car park in the middle of nowhere and these days often set off with nothing booked but a headful of ideas and have always found somewhere to stop over.
So for us the big compromise is the bikes on the back. Moving forward as our son hopefully in love our hobby we will probably just have to make trips that either mountain bike trips or camping trips because I won't feel safe leaving the van sat just anywhere while we do non bikey stuff. For now we just use pub bikes and a lock.
Like most we started with a tent but since getting the Multivan we get away a lot more often, even if its just one night in a pub car park. This van is helping our family create a whole load of great memories and to us is worth every penny.
We bought a LWB Trafic 6 months ago. It was a crew van but we had bulkhead and fixed seats taken out and then insulated, lined and 3 removable seats put in. We now have a space that we can sleep in (even with seats in), carry bikes and kayaks (our 2 sit-on-tops fit inside). LWB makes such a difference to our previous SWB vans yet still ok to park. Trafic is under 2m which meant we could fit in all car parks in France this summer (and on particularly low road tunnel!!).
We are getting a removal wooden bed frame in the next month or two - perfect for events for me or max couple of nights away with the wife.
I look at bigger vans and would love one, but the LWB Trafic still works fine as a daily driver yet gives us loads of flexibility.
Clink was that tunnel around Paris somewhere ? There was one that had us shrinking down in our seats!
Clink was that tunnel around Paris somewhere ? There was one that had us shrinking down in our seats!
Sounds like the one - I was driving crouching in my seat even though I knew we should fit!!! Had to stop half way and remove aerial though as persistent banging was disconcerting. It went on for ever too!!