You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I reckon they do.
I have over 17 years sales experience in an industry and 30 plus a a salesman, at the beginning of this year the company I worked for went bust so I’m back on the job market.
I have applied for jobs when they come up and in all but one case haven’t even been offered an interview. And the one interview didn’t progress due to the tough times in the industry and the up coming election?. Yet the jobs are calling on customers I already know, I’m 59 though I don’t act or look (IMO) my age, I also don’t act or dress like a bloke not accepting his age. I’m also fit and healthy. I have no intention of retiring any time soon either.
I spoke to a job agency and they said to review my CV removing my age and only submitting the last 20 years of employment revelation to the industry I have been working in.
Has anyone else had this experience? I’m just interested to know.
The other small gripe is the fact employers can’t even be bothered so send a rejection letter.
They shouldn't but generally younger and inexperienced also means cheaper, which is not the best approach.
The other small gripe is the fact employers can’t even be bothered so send a rejection letter.
This is the single most frustrating part of the process, most of the time they use an agency to do the searching and they are just as bad.
Good advice from the agency IMO.
The other small gripe is the fact employers can’t even be bothered so send a rejection letter.
It's 2024 not 1994...
There's absolutely no need to have your age on a CV. It doesn't give any useful information regarding how suited to the job you are, but could (accidentally perhaps) rule you out from the off.
Was told not to put date of birth on CV and you can no longer ask at interview. Slightly crazy when it’s a good indicator of experience
They shouldn't but they probably do. Even if it's not on it it can be estimated from things work history, or more obviously the date you graduated for instance
Slightly crazy when it’s a good indicator of experience
Not always. A lot of older guys i've worked with actually only had a handful of years experience, they've just had it a dozen times. I think it's mainly as they joined the workforce when Jobs For Life actually existed. There are a lot less of them around now, thankfully.
20 years of job history should be more than enough to show enough experience to do pretty much any role anywhere.
And i've just realised one of the older guys i turned down for a job in my first role with recruitment responsibility was younger than i am now.
I would leave it on if you think it's a positive, take it off if you think you may be perceived as too young or old for the job in question. Your employment history will give an indication of your age anyway if the person reading knows how to count.
Do employers look at your age on a CV
Yes. They'll say they don't, but they do. And even if you don't put your DoB on there they'll try and work it out from your employment history and/or education.
I'm firmly of the belief that anything over 10 years ago is irrelevant, so take it off your CV and put a line that says something like "details of employment prior to 2005 available on request". Same with education, unless it's relevant to your role take it off, and if you must leave it on then take the dates off.
The other small gripe is the fact employers can’t even be bothered so send a rejection letter
Yeah, it's crap, but that's what it's like at the moment. I try and send something, but it'll be generic and automated which some would argue is even worse.
They don't if you don't include it. It's not something that I've ever put on a CV (or looked for when recruiting) as it has no relevance. As has been said, if they really want to they can inferior from education dates or roles.
I haven't put mine on my CV for years.
They can get a general idea from my education and employment dates though. And I'm sure that filters me out for some employers even at 50.
Even if employers aren't outright prejudiced, some managers may still hesitate or worry that (no offence) "ugh this old guy isn't going to listen to instructions" or "they won't do it the new way and will moan about not using a fax machine" or "they won't do what their 35 yo manager tells them". You can address some of this in interview but it does require you to get that far.
How long is your CV? The stuff from 20 years ago can be brief eg "1995-2003: various sales positions in the specialist laxatives sector".
Employers are rude: no rejections, no acknowledgements, no explanations, a lot of form filling again and again to input stuff that's in your CV. Sorry. Don't let it trouble you.
Do you have a decent LinkedIn profile? That's where many people will look once you get past rhe sift.
No age on my CV but they can count back if you left college in 1998.
I’ve never intentionally worried about age BUT if I was hiring and someone seemed to have an awful lot of experience:
- I’d expect them to be expensive
- I’d be subconsciously questioning why they weren’t just looking to retire (or are they “winding down” to that)
My personal experience of hiring people who are “too experienced” for the role is:
- they often aren’t a good team fit
- they often aren’t good at receiving instruction/direction to do something differently from they are used to, especially from far younger/less experienced people
- they often are particularly poor on stuff we would consider to be absolute basics in 2024 - IT etc.
If you are the exception to that - you need to convince me with your CV and then interview. Make your salary expectations very clear, make the fact you have existing relationships that can help these people be clear.
Under the Equality Act of 2010, it is illegal to discriminate against individuals on the basis of age in areas such as employment.
However the reality is slightly different. Recruitment shouldn't be discriminating by age, and you shouldn't put your age on an application, but its very easy to tell someone's rough age.
If I were job hunting I would not put your DOB on the CV, regardless of age.
When I am interviewing, and the age is included, I check it roughly aligns with the work history and set set my prejudice levels. If you don't have you DOB then I wait until I see you before becoming prejudiced:
Too young = useless and too expensive/timec onsuming to train
Younger = inexperienced and malleable. Better have a good personality and presentation in the F2F and not sound like a child
Middle - Experience important. Are they stuck in their ways or open minded. F2F important for them to explain their history clearly and succinctly as well as explaining what they want
Older - Much the same as Middle but with more weight on the experience and proof of performance and less on the flexibility
To Old - Stacks of experience but nothing recent and unwilling to consider new stuff.
*This is not exactly all true but the basics are there. Prejudice is your brain taking mental shortcuts based on your experience.
Absolutely no reason to put age / date of birth on CV.
Sounds like your agency is giving good advice. It is in their (financial) interest to place you in a job so their advice will usually be worth listening to. Having said that though, if you are going through an agency, why are they not writing your CV for you?
My tip top tips:
-Register with x2 decent agencies, do not give any one agency exclusivity
-Still make sure you apply directly to jobs you see
-Target companies you want to work for
-Build a LinkedIn profile. Nowadays this is probably the most important thing you can do in the job market. Work your network, with your network will be extensive and your single biggest opportunity.
Similar to OP
haven't put age on a CV for a long time and removed any work experience when I was younger
Clearly age is an issue for people hiring but defiantly dependent on job type
I've had one person ask my age in interview so I asked how that would be relevant to the job role
Don’t put that you went to college in 1998 in there then. In fact, if that’s your last bit of education, take it off the CV completely.
Yeah, but it's not about me is it? In my experience people in my sector are usually my age.
I'm in a similar position, and I've got two CVs; one with my age on, and one without. We all know they're not supposed to prejudice age, but they do. I just have the last 20 years of employment listed.
I recently went on a 50+ course, and was told that the government wants more of the 50+ back at work ; all well and good, but you can't make employers take them on.
You just have to hope more employers are wanting people with experience, and take a chance on them. I have heard some companies find younger employees can be a bit casual, or spend too much time checking social media, and a little unreliable.
Good luck......
If you’re a graduate and state your year of graduation on your CV, it’s not hard to deduce age accurately. If you don’t state your year of graduation I would be surprised. So past 20 years of work experience and no education history?
I've also reached the stage in life where I have to cover up the clues to how ancient I am.
When recruiting it's been suggested that requiring experience is discriminatory against young candidates! End of the day people have their prejudices, just have to cross your fingers the recruiting manager looking at your cv isn't an arse.
I retired a couple of years ago. I did apply for lots of jobs (I didnt retire straight away I wanted another couple of years) Many years IT experience leading teams and managing large technical projects with quite large budgets. Hardly got a sniff even for jobs that I appeared a perfect fit for. I also modified my CV and on a number of occasions recruiters asked questions which were quite clearly aimed at learning my age. I am convinced Ageism is a thing. Fully retired now so doesn't matter anymore but holding several senior positions over the last 10+ years I must admit I was shocked at how blatant it was.
I am convinced Ageism is a thing.
Clearly it is with attitudes like this:
they often are particularly poor on stuff we would consider to be absolute basics in 2024 – IT etc.
Many (most?) people in their 50s/60s will have used IT for 30 plus years
If you are old and convinced that your age is the reason you aren't getting an interview then as above remove earlier employment history and take dates off your education history
If you really want to catch them out, put in 2 cvs, same skills etc, one as above, one with your full history inc dates etc. Under 2 different names. Then build a case of discrimination
I know for a fact that some foreign sounding folks have done that with a British sounding name and their own name, exactly same cv. When the 'british' version gets a reply they rightly cry foul.
It is kind of crazy. My view is that if you recruit someone who is slightly older, they are move likely to stay with you until they retire so you can get years of work. Recruit a 20 year old and they will only be with you until they find a promoted, better paid job.
It depends on the position.
In my experience (I'm 54) when applying for full time positions, ageism definitely applies.
However, if you're applying for freelance/contractor rolls that gets flipped on its head. Employers are then normally looking for someone - not to put to fine apoint on this - to come in and pull them out of the shit. At this point, they really want someone with 30 years experience and is probably jedi level as far as particular skillsets are concerned
Recruit a 20 year old and they will only be with you until they find a promoted, better paid job.
While this is true, a 50 year old is far less likey to put up with the things a 20 year old would tolerate
It's a weird one. I seem to have gone from being too young to being too old without ever being the right age.
take it off your CV and put a line that says something like “details of employment prior to 2005 available on request”
Exactly what I've done. My CV was in danger of running to 5 pages, I'm pretty sure my C in Accounts GCSE is no longer relevant.
I’ve had one person ask my age in interview so I asked how that would be relevant to the job role
They're in breach of the Equality Act in asking that question. It's a Protected Characteristic.
Many (most?) people in their 50s/60s will have used IT for 30 plus years
Some people in their 50s/60s will have designed that IT.
Put as little personal information about yourself as possible. Especially so if uploading to a jobs website. Scammers just harvest all the info and the next thing you know you’ve taken out a £50k loan….
I’d also be cautious of including any protected characteristic data on a CV sent to an agency as it only takes a single hack to reveal all your details to criminals.
Some people in their 50s/60s will have designed that IT
Indeed 😁
Like the Horizon guy currently being questioned at the hearing?
Many (most?) people in their 50s/60s will have used IT for 30 plus years
Anecdotally, but I am hearing at work that the Gen Zers are actually less good with the office tech than the older crew - more used to apps rather than power point/excel.
Although arguably using power point to do written reports needs to die and we should listen to the gen Z ers and move onto Canva or whatever!
Under the Equality Act of 2010, it is illegal to discriminate against individuals on the basis of age in areas such as employment.
A bloke I worked with had been self employed, then gone into car sales in his 60's.
He hated the job he was in when I knew him, and had a applied for 60 jobs in a couple of months. No responses.
By the time he found a different job he had applied for over 500. And got 3 interviews.
Ageism was clearly in force.
If you are the exception to that – you need to convince me with your CV and then interview.
Poly is the hiring manager whose prejudices you need to overcome. Unfortunately before they get the CVs in a large organisation there is a talent acquisition (HR) person or HR software that is sifting the CVs according to the prejudices they've been programmed with.
a 50 year old is far less likey to put up with the things a 20 year old would tolerate
A 20 year old is far more likely to not show up because the vibes aren't vibing
We can sit around and exchange prejudices all day.
When recruiting it’s been suggested that requiring experience is discriminatory against young candidates!
It's not that requiring experience is discriminatory. It's that just saying "you must have 10 years experience" obviously favours people on how long they have been alive and working WITHOUT saying what skills or experience you want them to have. It's perfectly fine to say "you must have successfully developed and sold a laxative brand", but not "you must have 10 years of working in the laxatives sector".
Poly is the hiring manager whose prejudices you need to overcome.
Absolutely - and I'm not even looking at/for age's on CV's... I don't care on the actual age - but very experienced people can also come with downsides, and that's the battle the OP will face. Not least of which is that they often have very long CVs which can be harder to find the important bits that the younger person where the CV has less "wider experience" to mask the key attributes I'm looking for.
Unfortunately before they get the CVs in a large organisation there is a talent acquisition (HR) person or HR software that is sifting the CVs according to the prejudices they’ve been programmed with.
I've worked in larger organisations with talent acquisition people pre-screening candidates. They would never discriminate on age BUT they 100% would on salary expectations - if you are out of the agreed budget for that role you wouldn't get past them - even if you were amazing and budget might be found for someone so good. Mostly they were sorting out people who didn't meet the essential criteria (like being eligible to work in the UK, living near or being willing to relocate to the location, or having some mandatory qualifications (including some set by law/regulators).
The message to the OP though - is there's no good reason to include your age (or DOB) on your CV (except if you are young and the post requires you to be 18/21 for some legal reason!). But also consider if its helpful to even include dates of degrees etc - on a CV...
Anecdotally, but I am hearing at work that the Gen Zers are actually less good with the office tech than the older crew – more used to apps rather than power point/excel.
It wouldn't surprise me. Millennials were a goldilocks era where they'd grown up with the tech always being there. By the time we're getting into Gen Z and Gen α it's old hat, outside of GCSE IT they're no more going to want to use PowerPoint than we would an 8-track cassette.
In the escape room world there's a principle where you cannot assume outside knowledge, the game has to be self-contained in its own right. So for example, if you have a Morse code puzzle then you need to have a crib sheet to translate. With younger teams, reading an analogue clock is now becoming outside knowledge; they learn it as infants and then never have cause to touch it again.
Just looked at a candidate pack for one of our jobs. No date of birth but it asks for continuous everything job/uni/school dates with explanations for gaps. So might as well have dob on it.
I've removed as much as I can to give away my age on my CV i.e graduation date.
I have been asked for all dates and more details, but only once I've accepted the job and they are taking references.
I actually had one interview where the guy asked my age. The other interviewer said "we're not suppoed to ask that" and then he just worked it out from the graduation date. This was a patent law firm and these were partners in the firm. I later came to realise Partners in these firms can quite often be complete sh1ts, getting way too drunk at work events, attempting to chat up new graduates who work for them. etc
The last job I applied for was by phone, the company already knew me when they invited me for an interview, and all they cared about was that I was good enough at driving a car without damaging it while parking or manoeuvring around the site.
By the time I was made redundant, after working there for a bit over five years, I was five and a half years past retirement age.
Experience was everything, as was not being a dick. Unlike one member of staff, less than half my age, who wrecked three vehicles, and came close to killing another member of staff, by driving too fast with a frosted up windscreen. 🤷🏼
Age is irrelevant.
I find it amazing employers are prejudiced against more experienced, wiser candidates who can demonstrate thier commitment to working. My last recruit is clear that we've got 4 years then she retires - but that's no different from a young person who might move on and up in career, a mid-life parent who moves closer to a better school, etc etc. Few stay in jobs for life any more. IMO better to find the best candidate above all else.
The other small gripe is the fact employers can’t even be bothered so send a rejection letter.
This is modern recruitment. Arrogance from employers who feel they hold the power and owe nothing to applicants. It sits up there with the 'wish list' approach to hoped for experience and skills, and any company who refuses to give salary.
I insist at work that everyone gets a rejection email, anyone who is interviewed gets a personal phone call and some basic feedback, even if bland 'the selected person was just more experienced in this area'.
We used to get so many application letters we used to put a small variation in the address for job offers so we could sort them from the rest of the mail and didn't have to even open them all, let alone read them or write a rejection letter. How long does it take you to open say 250 letters a week, read a covering letter and CV, then put a rejection letter in an envelope and write the address. That in addition in trying to keep all the balls up in the air running a business and doing some productive work.
It's not arrogance it's the number of waking hours in the day.
Once we contacted someone they were kept informed.
As for age, I'm 64 and an employer would be mad to employ me. Sure I've got a load of experience but much of it is out of date, I'm slower moving, slower thinking, less healthy, know my rights better - I'm fit for the scrap heap.
A CV just needs the pertinent information for the job you're going for, nothing worse than reading that someone got 3 GCSE's in 1989, their hobbies are gardening and snooker and so on.
As for age and jobs, it's dependent on the field, i'm in an area where we are an ageing workforce, due to the experience and qualifications required, so i see folk hired in their 50s and even 60s in our place, as we can get a few years out of them before they choose to retire (no compulsory retirement age so they are the ones who choose).
In several others areas, youth is key though, they're more malleable and less likely to cause any issues, sales is probably one of those bad areas, where you can get a lot of problematics older people, who have commitments (children and so on), so less flexible and more likely to have the ability to leave without worrying about finances too much.
where I work , it's application form only so we don't accept a CV
when I look at the forms, age and the applicants name is hidden so I can't see. Only when I select them for interview is the name shown
A CV just needs the pertinent information for the job you’re going for, nothing worse than reading that someone got 3 GCSE’s in 1989
I hate it when someone who has loads of experience and /or a degree puts in their o levels , It's not relevant
Recently though the worst is those that get chatgpt to do their forms and then don't read them to see what obvious odd stuff it has put in
A CV just needs the pertinent information for the job you’re going for, nothing worse than reading that someone got 3 GCSE’s in 1989, their hobbies are gardening and snooker and so on.
...my education stops at the two CSE's I got in 1985!* 🤣
#schooloflife
(*geography and technical drawing just in case any recruiters are scanning the forum!)
Qualifications gained 25+ years ago really seem irrelevant; and not only that who still has their certificates. I think I've only got two, the rest could be anywhere - and I have no idea which examining board they were with.
I'd be wary of applying to a company who wanted to know what I scored that long ago. Why? Box ticking exercise?
No date of birth but it asks for continuous everything job/uni/school dates with explanations for gaps.
I'm increasingly of the mind that this is weird. What's to explain? For a start, every recruiter thinks that there are more candidates than rolls so of course people are going to have gaps. Secondly, no-one would blink at a student taking a gap year, why can't a more mature candidate do likewise. I've been out of work for six months, a big part of the reason for that is "because I could."
A better question than asking to explain gaps might be "why did you leave your previous role?" (ie, were you sacked?) but even then there's plenty of valid reasons, and if you were sacked then it might have been because you were working for a bastard.
where I work , it’s application form only so we don’t accept a CV
Please tell your recruitment/HR people that as a potential candidate this is a pain in the bollocks.
Even with the best intentions on the part of whoever's looking at your CV, they'll quickly get a rough idea of your age even if you haven't put it on there and I'm sure it will be a factor even if it's in an unconscious bias sort of way.
I had a job interview today, and part of the application process required a CV but also proof of having a degree. So I listed it on my CV along with grade and years so we’ll see if it has any bearing. Though I suspect they could pretty much guess my age from my grey hair in the interview itself so not exactly difficult to work out I’m the wrong (or is that the right) side of 50.
If they're not supposed to look at your date of birth put it down as 1990. If you're challenged then they're the ones in the wrong.
their hobbies are gardening and snooker and so on.
I quite like it when I get a little personal flavour in there, if only because it helps remind you who the hell is who. You can quite often get 20 CVs with identical experience and identical qualifications. If someone has an outside life and can speak interestingly about it, that's a useful distinguishing feature. Just don't put down "reading"...and then be unable to name any books you've read recently...