[Closed] Disposable coffee cups: eco alternative and views welcome

Just about to introduce a eco tax to our sports club where its £1 for a tea or coffee but 50p if you bring your own reusable cup.  Hopefully we'll then cut down on the disposal cups that we use at the moment.

Personally I think it's a no brained, however I'll let you know how it goes in a few months 🙂

In my experience most cheap, reusable cups are not of great quality and are so not often reused enough to justify their existence. If the mug is too cheap is will not be valued and will be treated as disposable.

The only people I know who consistently reuse cups are those that buy a coffee on their way to work making it part of their daily routine. Most of these have spent £10+ on a good quality mug. The Bodum seems to be a favourite in my office.

https://www.johnlewis.com/bodum-vacuum-travel-mug-0-35l-stainless-steel-black/p2405058

The only place open to buy a coffee when I start work is the place a lot of STW users love to put down.

Gregg's opens at 6.30am and I start just after ,the cup was £2 and as per the OP's suggestion it comes with a free coffee you then get 10p of a refill. Not adding to landfill anymore with my morning coffee feels like a step in the right direction.

twistedpencil thanks for your reply and interested to know whether you did any "market research" first.  I would be very interested to know how you get on especially as regards the uptake.

Cletus thank you and you've made a very good point re quality, unfortunately I've not come across any so very much in the dark.  Are there any particular makes that you've found to be OK, PM if you prefer?

Is this something that those of you with families are particularly keen to embrace?

carlosg thanks, is your cup lasting well would you say?  Whenever I see Greggs I always think of Binners!

These are default non-disposable coffee cups over here in oz:   http://au.keepcup.com

I'm not super keen on them myself, but they are hugely popular.  I think you can get them printed for your coffee shop/charity whatever.

A large coffee here in Sydney is $4 (aud) and some places have started offering a 20 - 50c discount if you bring your own cup.

It simply isn’t practical to use china cups

Can you in any way wash up? It seems we have set up many systems and ways of doing things now based around disposal of things. Can you use a restaurants or hotels dishwasher? Have your own small kitchen? Etc. As a charity you would get funding for such things, or a donor kitchen it is 'free' giving...

Cinnamon_girl , the cup is lasting very well no signs of wear but it is made from a fairly heavy duty plastic. I wash the cup more or less as soon as I've finished it so it doesn't get stained , the people working in the shop often remark that some customers don't seem to wash theirs out at all

What we need are edible coffee cups.

Drink the coffee, eat the cup.  Make them out of biscuits?

Personally I think it’s a no braine[r],

This. It is possible to over think things. Announce the changes in advance, let people buy their own cups of preference. Crack on - have a 1 week grace period with disposables available.

batfink, thanks.  I've seen that brand mentioned and seems to be premium.  We do sell merchandise but am unsure how much folk would be prepared to pay especially as many visitors are families.

matt, thank you.  Yes I agree that convenience can override but simply we do not have a kitchen or the space for one, nor gas, electricity or running water!  A generator is used plus calor gas.

Thanks carlosg, I may have to visit Greggs.  Disgusting though that some don't wash them.

I've got both plastic & glass keepCups which are very good but not so great insulators.

I also have a stojo which is a bit more pocketable and a clever design  https://stojo.co/

A motorway services Pret I stopped at was knocking off 50p if you used your own cup so it soon pays its way.

I think disposable mugs are only worthwhile if your customers are regulars, random visitors will just result in loads of unwanted reusable mugs sitting in cupboards.

15000/260 working days is 60 mugs a day, you'd only have to wash up using a big washing up bowl and a pan of hot water a few times a day to keep on top of that, and overnight you've completely eliminated all your cup waste.

I also have a stojo which is a bit more pocketable and a clever design

That looks neat, though the animation makes it look like a sex toy...

S****s at Cougar's comment!  Yes, I'd looked at those earlier but they're £10 each.

Is a financial incentive enough to make people bring or buy their own?  Is saving the planet not enough of an incentive?  My thoughts were that if we could find a reasonable quality and nicely printed cup (souvenir plus fund raiser) then it's a gentle push in the right direction.

Cups are bought in bulk and take up a lot of space, also someone physically takes the cup containing rubbish bags home and, believe me, there's plenty.  There's no way that china cups could physically be washed as sometimes there's 2,000 visitors through the door in one day plus I can't see anyone rushing to do it (I definitely wouldn't!) and we don't have the space.

We do have a fair number of regular visitors, to be honest if it wasn't so busy I'd canvas for visitor opinions.

Comments have been appreciated so thanks.

matt, thank you.  Yes I agree that convenience can override but simply we do not have a kitchen or the space for one, nor gas, electricity or running water!  A generator is used plus calor gas.

Our old church ran a soup kitchen now and again - they had a small van with all the diswasher trays in. All the (plastic) plates and cups were loaded back in, and a large local hotel allowed the time to bung 20 loads through, straight back in van for the next week...

Ban disposable cups, if that's too unpalatable for  our consumer economy, burn them to generate electricity.

If I don't have time to stop in the café and drink my coffee out of a proper cup that can be washed up and re-used I would have a long hard look at my life.

In my experience most cheap, reusable cups are not of great quality and are so not often reused enough to justify their existence.

Nah - a decent metal one will last forever; the £1 plastic non-thermal ones you get from Starbucks that look like a paper cup are also very durable, and dishwasher safe.  We have one, been used loads still looks new.

If I don’t have time to stop in the café and drink my coffee out of a proper cup that can be washed up and re-used I would have a long hard look at my life.

You're looking at it the wrong way round.  It's not that we don't have time, it's that we want coffee when we are doing other things, or we want to buy it from a favourite place and then take it somewhere else (such as work) to drink.  I do these things, but I also make time to 'sit in' and drink from china on other occasions.

Is a financial incentive enough to make people bring or buy their own?  Is saving the planet not enough of an incentive?

Sadly, I'd imagine that the majority of people won't give a toss about "saving the planet" when the cost is their own convenience.  After it's "only" a cup, they don't see the 2,000 others you go through that day.

A financial incentive might well be more effective.  20p off your coffee if you reuse a cup, a couple of quid for a branded travel mug (first fill's free) will soon pay for itself with regular visitors.

You could trial it using a "bring your own mug" policy, see how it goes down without the initial outlay of ordering a load of mugs no-one buys.

Aside,

I'm sitting here drinking a mug of tea, and all this talk about coffee is making it taste funny.  Odd things, brains.

I'd ban disposable stuff if I were in government.  People would whine, but they could adapt.

Problem is of course that those making, distributing and selling disposable cups also make  money and contribute to the economy.

What I’m interested in is whether any of you have been to any establishments where you can purchase an inexpensive reusable coffee cup. Would you consider doing this if it was printed with a charity logo and profits went to the charity? Just to be clear, this would be for a small size coffee cup. What cost would you think is acceptable?

I think most coffee shops offer re-useable cups but I'd never buy one since I've got my own Klean Kanteen insulated tumblers. I don't like the idea of yet more plastic, there's the leaching of chemicals into the beverage and just the overall step up in quality and durabilty you get from something steel. I'm not sure if that helps you or answers the question....I suppose if I didn't already own something like that I'd maybe buy a steel tumbler if it was cheap enough because it would seem like something worth keeping. Personally I'd be less inclined to buy something emblazoned with a charity name or logo than just a plain finish.

The Real Food Cafe (Chip shop in Tyndrum) have sold mugs for years, offering a discount on drinks if you use one of theirs. That only addresses part of the problem; you don't want to be travelling about the country with a stock of cups for different cafes. If everybody carried a Stojo or similar, that would work. A few other thoughts:

Disgusting though that some don’t wash them

if people take their own mugs travelling, they probably don't have an opportunity to wash them until they are home or at a final destination. Since I don't put milk in any drinks, it wouldn't worry me, but it could be a hazard otherwise.

someone physically takes the cup containing rubbish bags home

Most people wouldn't object to a charity putting their rubbish in domestic bins - but some council jobsworths aren't most people, and there's a risk they'll consider them commercial waste and issue fines.

Why not consider disposable clay or terracotta mug like in India?

You don't have to follow the their mug design but something more modern?

Obviously those being sold here in UK are extortionately expensive as usual.

I refuse to drink hot stuff in all those takeaway plastic regardless. In a year I think I have only consumed one or maximum two take away coffee.  🙂

Information here.

try these guys   https://www.vegware.com/  

They do a range of products which we sell - they are much more expensive than dispo stuff but so they should be, we also began selling Bamboo cups earlier this year and sold out of the first two batches within weeks, we have just placed an order for around 1500 cups and have them on back order.

PM me if you want to chat.

I've got a bamboo cup that I use. A decent size but it only cost about £3 I think. Waitrose do a similar thing and encourage you to buy a reusable mug, admittedly plastic but still.

Pret a Manger do discounts for using your own mug.

Bamboo cups? Isn't it a bit awkward to drink from a long thin mug? Seriously, I was convinced of the benefit of using bamboo toothbrushes in place of plastic - til I saw the price! Hopefully your cups are a bit more reasonable!

Cinnamon_girl, no market research but tired of seeing how many we get through.  I would love to use china mugs, however we don't have water at our cabins, everything is brought off site.

I do know quite a few local sports clubs have implemented this idea so not without precedent.

It met with some resistance initially but I think I've won the naysayers round for the time being, it's not like our club will fold if sales of tea and coffee drop...

What we're going to do is buy a small number of unbranded mugs and sticker them up. If these sell then we might look at branding some travel mugs. Ecobamboo cups (iirc) have some nice designs, but a bit pricey.

Next step recycling bins, and I'm not sure how the new disposable tax is going to hit us, I'd like to ditch plastic water bottles but will struggle until we get a supply...

Steve

Thanks all, more food for thought.  Seeing how the public embraced reusing plastic carrier bags (to save 5p) gives me hope that there is concern about the environment.  Will investigate the Greggs and Starbucks cups that have been mentioned.

Seeing how the public embraced reusing plastic carrier bags (to save 5p) gives me hope that there is concern about the environment.

As I said before, I expect there's a greater concern about spending 5p on a carrier bag.

Price of everything, value of nothing?  Do you not believe that Blue Planet is influencing the public?

People do what they're told to a large extent (see also diesel cars).

There's plenty of good stuff to be said about plastic, for example the break even point (for greenhouse emissions) between polystyrene cups and a china mug is around 350 uses.  As long as the cups are disposed of responsibly that's not bad. And you also have to think of the impact of all that detergent in wastewater which ends up in the rivers.

Paper cups are roughly 10x worse than polystyrene for greenhouse emissions too.

+1 for vegware, they do 'disposable' style cups which are plant based so can go in the compost.

Just bought a bamboo cup from 'Home Bargains', Ora Kiely print.....£1.99.

It has a cardboardy feel, but OK.

SWMBO has nabbed it within minutes.

Will have to pop in there tomorrow, and get another one. Only a few remaining though.

I'm yet to be convinced about this reusable cup concept both from an environmental and practical perspective. Yes, it works for folks who consume their commercially bought coffee in a routine and regular way; every morning on the way to work or at service stations on motorways and in those situations I can see how it would work. But not all of us live like that. My coffee purchases are far more ad hoc. I'm simply not prepared to carry a mug around on the off chance I may find myself wanting a coffee from a non china mug providing vendor. Then from an environmental perspective what is the impact of making a reusable mug measured in disposable mugs? As a household we have somehow accrued 8 of the things (some from similar concepts as CG is suggesting). Some of them have barely been used. If your charity coffee shop is only offering a refill service and many of your punters are new/unaware and come unprepared they are simply either not going to buy a drink or they will buy yet another cheap reusable that will never be used again as their reusable of choice is sat at home. They could have drunk it out of a 'relatively' low impact disposable, now they have a more significant amount of resource tied up in a mug shoved to the back of the cupboard

As a society I think we are looking at it the wrong way and focussing the blame on the customer rather than the business. Disposable culture allowed businesses to flourish where previously they could not because either they did not want the expense of washing their own reusable or didn't have the ability to do so. It was never about consumer convenience. More effort needs to be made to make the reuse system localised or invent disposable cups that have a lower environmental impact. One idea I could see working in cities would be plain mugs that you could take away from vendors with a charge and then deposit in a machine in a variety of locations about the city to redeem the charge. All the cafes use the same mugs that get washed and redistributed back to the cafes. The credits could be electronic on your phone. Of course you would be free to use your own reusable mug too.

I think it is Italy where the take away coffee has not caught on and customers have stuck rigidly to wanting their coffee in coffee shops. Some mileage in that too.

Is a financial incentive enough to make people bring or buy their own? Is saving the planet not enough of an incentive?

Look at how many people needlessly use their cars for short trips of less than five miles, convenience trumps eco-warrior for many, sadly. Even though that short ride would improve the fitness of many, extend their life expectancy and reduce the burden on the NHS.

Can you find somewhere that will take the disposable stuff but guarantee it will be used for something else and not go into landfill?

At our local RSPB charity group meetings, we've started using compostable coffee/tea cups. These may be vegware.

C-G I am finding out more and more that a large percentage of our population don't give a toss about the environment or the future of our country. It stresses me no end.

I think we need to take the 'trend (I think from America) for carrying plastic water bottles and throwaway coffee cups around, unfashionable. I watch celebs and even top sports stars on the telly making it look cool.  It's about education.

sometimes there’s 2,000 visitors through the door in one day

Good going.  You've beaten Starbucks almost 4x over (Average US location =  503 cups per day)

Surely that could fund a dishwasher?

Plastic, but look reusable and ready for branding.

http://www.outstandingbranding.co.uk/drinkware/travel-mugs/americano-medio-mug.html

Should stack away for storage nicely as well.

But plastic might be a deal beaker  breaker.

What seems to be the sticking point for me in this example is the view that the customers can provide the solution, by buying biodegradable or recyclable/reusable cups.

I know the bottled gas/no mains water is an issue but it would be better to find a solution to wash mugs and eliminate the production of waste in the first place.

15,000 cups a year is quoted but then 2000 customers on a busy day, if its just popular weekends etc rather than a steady trickle of customers everyday, this almost makes it easier to deal with the washing up side as you have the money coming in to cover the hassle/cost.  You could start with using washable mugs on busy days and stay with disposables when there is only limited staff onsite.

Really interesting comments.

As a coffee consumer and a regular visitor to places like costa I have to say that I don’t own a reusable cup. Doing so means I have to carry it with me and that means ive got to clean it as well. It would just stay in the cupboard at home or worse end up in the bin.

If I was having a coffee inside I would like a proper cup / mug that I would return. If im out and about I want to dispose of it not carry it about. The only way it would work is if visiting an attraction and there was some kind of deposit return scheme.

But not all bad things are equally bad everywhere.

For example a plastic cup in landfill, its a waste of plastic but it does zero harm other than taking up space. Recycling is better (and reusing even better) but landfill is a legitimate solution.

A composting cup (paper, veg, bamboo, whatever) decomposes and releases methane, as greenhouse gas emissions go you would be much much better off burning them (but composting sounds better to the sort of people who buy this stuff).

So in places like Norway they adopt policies which aim for zero landfill because they are forced to by the lack of any suitable sites. Not a problem the UK has generally.

A good example is glass bottles. You use more energy driving a weeks bottles to the bottlebank than is saved recycling them (vs new glass). So you have to consider which is the problem you need to solve glass going to landfill, or CO2 emissions.

You use more energy driving a weeks bottles to the bottlebank than is saved recycling them (vs new glass).

I use zero energy driving to the glass recycling box in my hallway.  I thought doorstep collection was pretty much nationwide now?

 I thought doorstep collection was pretty much nationwide now?

Not for glass. We had collection in Edinburgh but not in the Highlands.

We've just started selling these.

The mug collapses down and has a secure lid so that the dregs don't leak out.

Pop in and buy one.

Good points tinas.

I have a friend who bangs on on social media about 'morons' who don't recycle properly and use disposable cups (bored at home with two small kids so I suspect she needs needs a rant outlet) yet thinks nothing of jumping on a plane to visit her sister in NZ. There is a lot of hypocrisy amongst the environmentally vocal and also not a lot of common sense. I'm all up for making the world a more environmentally sound place but carrier bags and disposable cups are pretty vacuous places to spend our energy. Yet if we solve these two demons the dim public will think we are half way to environmental utopia.

Crumbs convert, my ears are burning.  Will reply when my blood pressure's dropped.

 I’m all up for making the world a more environmentally sound place but carrier bags and disposable cups are pretty vacuous places to spend our energy. Yet if we solve these two demons the dim public will think we are half way to environmental utopia.

Blame St David of Attenborough. If he had focussed on the environmental cost of flying rather than disposable plastics then he and his TV crew might have had some well-justified claims of hypocrisy laid at their door.

carrier bags and disposable cups are pretty vacuous places to spend our energy

I'm not convinced that I agree, but in any case, does that make it a bad idea?

The alternative to "hopping on a plane" is someone never seeing their sister ever again.  That's a life-changing situation.  The alternative to not having free carrier bags is paying 5p or sticking an old one in your pocket, big whoop.  These changes might not change the world, but it's a positive change and it's easy so why not do it?

TBF the life-changing situation was the sister hopping on the plane in the first place. can't say i blame her but you can bet the words 'it's only a plane ride away' will have come out of her mouth at some point. if plane rides weren't a relatively cheap, easy thing to do, maybe she would have considered her choice more carefully?

anyway. the hound of 'the basket meals' uses a vast array of old mugs, and a washing up bowl, and a generator, and brings it's own water. not sure how hard it really is TBH.

https://goo.gl/images/Lr94DA

sigh. how do pictures work please?

Right-click, "Copy image address," paste.

 a generator

Running off bio-ethanol, obviously.....

I’m not convinced that I agree, but in any case, does that make it a bad idea?

No it doesn’t; as you can see from the long rambling post I put up last night on the subject I have given it some thought too. But, and for me it's a big but, by listing the environmental ills almost in bullet point style we lose sight of the fact that they are not equally naughty. Carrier bags might be a relatively easy win as it's a simple thing to change but we shouldn't be giving ourselves too much of a pat on the back about it or go chastising others for not being 'on point'. In reality it’s an infinitesimal drop in the ocean in comparison to other issues. Some yummy mummy banging on about the awful oiks that still buy/use them, and how easy it is to be a better person and buy locally produced veg and then conveniently forget the fact that their husband is smashing out 30K miles a year in the car to commute to the office so they can live in an evironmentally friendly life in a leafy glade in the shires is living a very hypocritical life but feeling ever so pious and evangelical doing so. The general public need properly educating about the life choices that are properly bolloxing up the planet and not being allowed to feel smug about the minutia.

It simply isn't possible for anyone to be washing cups due to limited space and being unable to heat water as the burners are at full capacity.  Additionally we'd need a lot of cups and, to be blunt, I don't think anyone would want to do washing up as we struggle with volunteers as it is.   No chance of a dishwasher unless it can run off a generator as there's no electricity.

Yes, there are disposable cups that will go in a compost bin but who has a compost bin and will they take them?  Bear in mind that half drunk cups get placed in the rubbish bin, would anyone be prepared to sift through them?  Not exactly a pleasant job.

My other concern is local Councils and any potential changes to the recycling service.  We all know they're strapped for cash and with leaving the EU the target of recycling 50% of waste presumably will no longer apply so I guess there's the possibility that doorstep collections could go the way of the dodo.  Household waste could be an earner dependent on bin size.  I'm not sure that we should take these services for granted.

Bunnyhop good post and totally agree with you.

zippykona those are a great idea but far too expensive.

convert not everybody lives in that manner and don't believe for one minute that people feel smug about the minutiae as you call it.  My generation were certainly responsible for enabling an economy to be based on consumerism, a huge amount of ignorance due to a 'having it all' attitude.  It's now biting us on the bum so, yeah, I'm trying to lead a more responsible and hopefully kinder life with the choices I have to make.  I'll stop now.

Why would you need to wash on site? Could you not do what Matt said some time back and buy enough (hopfully stackable and space efficient) mugs to handle a day's trading and negotiate cheap washing through an industrial machine in a hotel etc in an off peak period?

Either that or........if the envionmental impact of the enterprise is no longer compatible with the ethics of the volunteers does it need to cease trading? Put the effort into rattling tins or another fund raiser that you are more at peace with environmentally.

and don’t believe for one minute that people feel smug about the minutiae as you call it.

We'll have to disagree there. Way too many people fiddle around the edges of their lifestyle to mollify their conscience conveniently ignoring the heard of elephants in the room. Cups and carrier bags is just a bit of fiddling. I’m all up for a bit of fiddling but see it for what it is – it’s hardly getting to third base.

 The alternative to not having free carrier bags is paying 5p or sticking an old one in your pocket saving about 20g of hydrocarbons and driving the 5 miles to the supermarket in a car burning ~1kg of petrol big whoop.

FTFY

Same could be said for CG's coffee shop (no idea where it is but I suspect people drive there).

I'd go with offering re-usable mugs (and discount coffee in them), and keep with the disposables for everyone else.

AND offer a discount* for anyone who's cycled/walked there (because this is a far bigger impact than what type of cup they drink from).

*I know one national Trust park has stopped charging vehicle entry and now charges park entry per person**, completely disincentivizing car sharing, it's bonkers. Its even worse than places that offer to pay for your parking if you use some other attraction, like shopping centers.  If you want to charge £4 for parking, fine, but give me £4 off my shopping too for coming by bike!

**this was supposed to apply to everyone, but for practical reasons obviously only works for cars.

convert there's very little space unfortunately with supplies very much squashed together.  Washing off site is a good idea but obviously would entail someone being prepared to do that.  It's a bit strong to talk about ethics of volunteers, there's nothing wrong with asking can we do this differently/more environmentally friendly etc. but, to be clear, it's me asking this question.

People by nature are lazy with changing their habits but it can be done.  Sure, cups and carrier bags may be small fry compared to polluting vehicles and planes etc but it's a step in the right direction, obviously helped by the likes of Blue Planet.  It can lead to bigger things.  I'd be really interested to hear about any changes you've made or have planned.

I’d be really interested to hear about any changes you’ve made or have planned.

Main change was actively electing to have both of us living and working in the same town at the expense of potential higher pay/ promotion/job security opportunities or maybe even work pleasure. It's working out for us at the moment but I have to confess in addition to the environmental angle we enjoy both not being commuters on anything other than a bike. We have vowed that we'll make this a priority for the rest of our working lives. I think at the moment in purely financial terms it's costing us circa £5K pa in our pockets when you balance reduced income potential and reduced transport costs. At our worst environmentally we were collectively doings about 25K miles commuting which is not a lot compared to some but it's a small difference.  Most other changes to do with food/consumables choices pale into insignificance after that and are probably not worth typing out in the grand scheme of things. There is still a shed load of sin in out lives.

I use zero energy driving to the glass recycling box in my hallway.  I thought doorstep collection was pretty much nationwide now?

Not in dumfries and galloway, they are ****ing useless , there is practically zero collections for any/all recyclable material and its a 26 mile return journey for me to recycle stuff

Dumfries and galloway recycling cock-up