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Following on from [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/a-hatred-or-huge-dislike-for-all-things-car ]ton's thread last week[/url], I too am rapidly running out of patience with many car owners. This week so far:
- A car accelerating, then aggressively braking, into a zig-zagged, hatched box area that is pedestrian access to a school, whilst others kids are walking through the box at the time. Back door opens an wee Tarquin gets out.
- Apparently it is acceptable to park on pavements, blocking them to pedestrians at night, so that your child can get closer to the door of the community hall.
- A good number of class at school encouraged to lie by parents that they walk to school, when in fact they are driven.
- Parking in junction throat or directly opposite T-juntions, so that you do not have to walk as far to visit your pal or family.(on an empty street)
- Driving into a (normally locked, gated) school playground at the end of school, in between kids, because 'your car was parked in there, I thought it was OK' (I had been working at the school, and was loading up a full, seats down load of stuff and boxes of books, so janitor had let me in).
- blocking three other vehicles in by not parking in a marked space as 'I was only a few minutes' (It took me 35 mins to find the offending car owner).
- A child not being allowed to join in the school bike ride as it was raining - so mummy drove him there in car, then left before teachers arrived, so wee Billy (8) had to wait over an hour by himself outside the village hall they were having lunch in...
- Despite appallingly wet driving conditions, in the dark and seeing numerous accidents, insisting on driving at 70+ mph, flashing anyone who was slower and swerving in and out of the puddles of standing water on the motorway.
ton, it is not just you mate.
grrrrrrr
I didn't read the original post, but that sounds like 'knob culture' and people such as these would probably find a way to annoy if they had a horse and cart, walked, or even YES, RODE A BIKE! 😆
(as one such knob did to me today jumping red traffic lights in Chester)
Following on from ton's thread last week, I too am rapidly running out of patience with [s]many car owners.[/s] people
FTFY. They are not car drivers - they are are people who drive cars, just like we are not cyclists we are people who cycle. Labelling people doesn't help - it just de-personalises and makes the problem worse.
Following on from ton's thread last week, I too am rapidly running out of patience with many [s]car owners. people[/s] parents
Bet they had "Baby On Board stickers as well, at least letting you know they were self centered dicks
We do live in a desperately middle class place as well.
But some of this was in some more 'challenging' areas of Edinburgh and South Lanarkshire...
FTFY. They are not car drivers - they are are people who drive cars, just like we are not cyclists we are people who cycle. Labelling people doesn't help - it just de-personalises and makes the problem worse.
I disagree. The motor car appeals to our base desires. It's like a packet of cheap fags. An instant hit. A lot of people give in. A lot of people give in to x factor so something as convenient as a car is always going to amplify the worst elements of human nature.
They are car drivers and I believe that in 200 years time the personal motor car will be considered as a threat to society, the environment and the sanity of the human race.
Get nice people into cars and they can become nasty c**ts in an instant.
yossarian - Member
FTFY. They are not car drivers - they are are people who drive cars, just like we are not cyclists we are people who cycle. Labelling people doesn't help - it just de-personalises and makes the problem worse.
I disagree. The motor car appeals to our base desires. It's like a packet of cheap fags. An instant hit. A lot of people give in. A lot of people give in to x factor so something as convenient as a car is always going to amplify the worst elements of human nature.
They are car drivers and I believe that in 200 years time the personal motor car will be considered as a threat to society, the environment and the sanity of the human race.
POSTED 22 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
nedoverendsmole - Member
Get nice people into cars and they can become nasty c**ts in an instant.
POSTED 3 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Oh please. Any more wild speculation and over-generalisations? Plenty - indeed the majority of people get behind the wheel of a car and behave in a perfectly civilised way. I think you both need to jump off your high horses.
There are people who drive well and those who don't - same for cycling too. That's about it.
Pfftt, if you don't see the impacts on communities, attitudes and cultures of the personal motor car then you are blind.
There are people who drive well and those who don't - same for cycling too. That's about it.
driving a tonne of metal that can travel over 100 mph, is a priviledge and deserving of more respect than many give it.
yossarian - Member
Pfftt, if you don't see the impacts on communities, attitudes and cultures of the personal motor car then you are blind.
Maybe, but I doubt it. I am not saying cars are universally good. In fact I believe that the increased centralisation of organisations has increased unnecessary commuting for the purpose of reducing cost and increasing shareholder returns at the expense of employees and the wider communities. I should most definitely have been more selective in my original quote of your original post though. Apologies - I wasn't countering all of your points
kimbers - Member
There are people who drive well and those who don't - same for cycling too. That's about it.
driving a tonne of metal that can travel over 100 mph, is a priviledge and deserving of more respect than many give it.
Agreed, some do not treat this as they should. Many do though!
Yawn
DaveyBoyWonder - Member
Yawn
Yawn to you too! 😉
In short...People are a problem.
One morning this week, throught the last few junctions of my ride to work, the same taxi:
- changed lanes without signalling (or presumably looking)
- blocked advanced stop lines x2
- ran one amber and one red light
- and looked like was speeding over 30mph (to get to the next red light...) although I guess I don't know that for sure.
and then stopped near my work to offload a kid at a nursery. Admittedly the ASL blocking doesn't really put the child in danger but still made me think.
Also it seems like pavements near where I live are mainly for parking cars on. Not just a wheel on the kerb, but fully blocking the path so anyone walking has to go on the road....
It's always been known that humans aren't psychologically fit to drive cars - why else do you need a test, licence and insurance as legal requirements. Anything else in mass usage that needs those levels of legislated risk management?
Self-driving cars are on the way, which will solve the problem nicely. Still have the benefits of personalised transport but reduce the death risk and stress. Still have space, noise and air pollution issues of course.
Cars need to be taken off their pedestal - they appear to just be making people fat and angry yet we treat them like they;re the most important thing in society
[quote=nedoverendsmole ]Get nice people into cars and they can become nasty c**ts in an instant.
I don't believe that's true. Genuinely nice people don't become nasty when behind the wheel - it is a good way though of differentiating between those and the people who put up a veneer of being nice in everyday life.
I'm really not into this car drivers v cyclists, cars v motorbikes, skiers v boarders nonsense
A lot of people are selfish, ignorant, self centred tossers. Just because they ride a bike doesn't automatically make them nice people
Though I think it's fair to say that ignorant selfish tossers are less likely to ride a bike, and riding a bike also tends to be good for the soul so making people less ignorant selfish and tossy. Not that there aren't plenty of such people on bikes, just that the proportions are lower than car drivers.
Get [s]nice[/s] some people into cars and they can become nasty c**ts in an instant.
I think that's what you meant to say.
yossarian - Member
Pfftt, if you don't see the impacts on communities, attitudes and cultures of the personal motor car then you are blind.
I certainly do, it gives those communities the ability to travel to work, to socialise, to have access to health care, to shop, all on their terms, not on the terms of 'public transport' that is barely able to offer one bus a day in each direction, and that after a walk of one or two miles along narrow, steep, dark and dangerous roads to the nearest bus stop.
Which is the situation in the part of the world I live in, not all that far from the M4, as it happens.
brooess - MemberIt's always been known that humans aren't psychologically fit to drive cars - why else do you need a test, licence and insurance as legal requirements. Anything else in mass usage that needs those levels of legislated risk management?
Humans aren't really designed to do anything much safely.
Almost any activity a human being can undertake (sic) could potentially result in death. 🙂
Self-driving cars are on the way, which will solve the problem nicely. Still have the benefits of personalised transport but reduce the death risk and stress.
Shortly followed by the self riding bicycle.
Why do you need to put yourself at risk and inconvenience others when you can get all the excercise you need in a gym?
Cars need to be taken off their pedestal - they appear to just be making people fat and angry yet we treat them like they;re the most important thing in society
Really?
When I'm in the mood, I love driving - I find it incredibly relaxing and satisfying.
Driving, given the right conditions, is inherently fun.
Not as fun as motorcycling, obviously, but the joyless, uncoordinated and mechanically inept have already made this as socially unacceptable as pissing in the street.
Surely its the minority in both cyclists and motorists in both cases. How many rlj's in London in a day? I'd guess a fair few would be committed by cyclists who by nature of what they're riding very rarely get penalised for their actions as its an unregistered and virtually un policeable mode of transport.
I drive both car and van, and also ride nown again on the road but only on mtb. It's only deepest Derbyshire but I've definite seen idiots of both catergories out and about!
I certainly do, it gives those communities the ability to travel to work, to socialise, to have access to health care, to shop, all on their terms, not on the terms of 'public transport' that is barely able to offer one bus a day in each direction, and that after a walk of one or two miles along narrow, steep, dark and dangerous roads to the nearest bus stop.
Which is the situation in the part of the world I live in, not all that far from the M4, as it happens.
So the car defines where you can work, where you socialise and where you shop. It further defines the extent of public transport, the extent of street lighting and pavements. It even defines how you describe your location (we all know where the M4 is). As you say on the surface it allows people to live 'on their own terms'. This is absolutely the thin end of the wedge and highly symptomatic of an entitlement led culture.
How many people steal stuff or do other criminal things? A minority, people by and large stick to the rules. Now how many drivers ignore the law? You just have to look at the speeding/parking penalties issued before you start looking at aggressive driving tailgating cutting people up etc.
I'd argue there is a negative car culture, people are sold on the idea of private motorised transport being able to drive door to door parking within feet of destinations without having to interact with other people if they don't want, their environment completely at their control. Fact is streets are packed, parking is becoming more and more a premium and people get pissed off that their dream is tarnished. There [i]seems[/i] to be a lot of people with a heightened sense of entitlement when they sit in their cars, to the detriment of pretty much everyone else.
Check the road deaths a punishments too, deaths get fewer every year, which is good, but its still a lot and there's only a handful of those people who kill with their cars who are stopped (temporarily in 99.9% of cases) from driving. "Accidents happen, can't be helped, life goes on for the rest and we all want to keep driving"
Not everyone is a knob when they get in a car, of course not, but this isn't just a people thing, car culture* is a bad influence. And of course those few who don't drive tend to get screwed over as everything is designed around people driving
*the greater and greater importance of cars and driving over riding everything else
Edit and on top of that you've got all the other shit, sedentary lifestyle everyone drives everywhere , commuter belts and out of town retail parks changing our towns and cities (to be argued for good or bad) the minor issue of all the pollution and resource dependancy etc etc
I'd say that both cars and bikes are just going the way of society - ie much more self centered, less considerate etc etc - and I think this just gets reflected in driving and cycling styles/attitudes (*and everywhere else)
I also think that there are a couple of pressures adding to this
- busier country/less personal space
- financial issues (personal and country - both* of whom have been overspending)
For my (very rural Scotland) parents (who had shanks pony, motorbike[*hallo me], motorbike and sidecar and then a car it was a fantastic enabler, however society has had some massive structural changes since then and for me (in major population areas) the private cars time has come - however the rather big problem here is it's going to be a HARD sell as the only alternatives are seen as '*less good*' than a private car and we've now adjusted our entire infrastructure (*well most of it) to rely on people driving to use it ..........
OP - I don't think it's car culture - just culture.
How many rlj's in London in a day?
[url= http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf ]Only 16%[/url]
Meanwhile, the majority of drivers – nearly two thirds (63%) – admit speeding by 5pm or more in a 30 limit, and many do so habitually. One in 25(4%) speed in a 30 limit on a daily basis. Men are far more likely
than women to speed in 30 limits, and three times as likely to
do so daily.
[url= http://www.brake.org.uk/info-resources/info-research/driver-survey-reports ]Brake/Direct Line survey[/url]
5 dead a day on the road. Tell me again we don't need to change driving culture?