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A slight oil patch has appeared on the drive ,so thought I'd check levels. Dipstick is dry but the oil light hasn't come on . It comes on when car is turned on but then goes out.
It had a good 120 mile run yesterday on the motorway.
I know the dipstick can't lie but surely it would have seized up if the car has no oil in it?
Probably best to put some in though
Get some oil in there fast...it won't just seize immediately but if it is dry then damage is being done...
Once the oil is back up you need to try and find the cause of the il leak.
I know the dipstick can’t lie but surely it would have seized up if the car has no oil in it?
Patience Grasshopper.
potentially a very expensive way of finding out the bulb for the oil level isnt working
I was driving my mum's old Ford Escort once about 20 years ago and the oil light came on about 5 seconds before the engine seized.
Oil light is usually a pressure switch, not level.
So as long as there's just enough at the pickup to maintain pressure it's 'fine'. Until it's not, because you go round a corner/brake etc.
Then you got oil starvation, which probably won't be too bad if it's brief, but repeated and extended is obviously bad news.
But there's also the oil bath below the pistons, so the crank could well not be properly lubricated etc.
Basically, top it up ASAP
Dipstick only shows last litre or two (depending on engine) of oil level.
So a dry dipstick MAY mean that you are only missin 1 litre from 5.
Regardless, you can't tell if the dipstick is dry.
Put oil in 1 litre at a time. Wait for level to settle. Check dipstick. Repeat until you get a reading then you'll know howuch you were actually missing.
@zippykona you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the oil light means.
When the red oil light comes on, that means there is zero oil pressure (notice how it comes on before you start the engine).
It means - "too late, engines f*cked".
Put some oil in NOW before you even start the engine again.
Car was serviced in January and it doesn't smoke. It's all very odd.
I'm pedalling to halfords.
Option 1 >>> put some oil in,check underneath car for any obvious damage/leaks,maybe put an old bit of hardboard or suchlike under engine area when it's parked on drive and monitor.
Option 2 >>> Do nothing right away other than giving it a good long blast up the motorway to find out if it will seize.
😆 🤣 😆
Are you telling us you don't check your oil level regularly 😉
using 1l of oil over ~5,000 miles is fairly common - which is why oil levels should be checked. There wouldn't be any symptoms. To put this in perspective, VW's official stance is that using up to 1l of fuel per 1000 miles is within design tolerances. top it up, check the level, then keep an eye on it every couple of weeks.
a low oil level can be fatal, but isn't necessarily. I had a banger that leaked oil from the rocker gasket, until the level was a bit below minimum. It did 40,000 miles with no oil showing on the dipstick, and was eventually flogged on
zippykona
Full MemberCar was serviced in January and it doesn’t smoke. It’s all very odd.
What's odd? You've seen oil on the drive, the level on the dipstick is low, it's most likely developed a leak.
Clean the driveway with sand, top the oil back up and check if any more appears on the drive/the level drops again.
Having an Alfa 147 as a company car was a shock - oil light came on very soon after delivery, going round a corner. They drink oil. I wasn't used to it having owned Toyota's and Nissans that never needed oil between services.
Check monthly
using 1l of oil over ~5,000 miles is fairly common – which is why oil levels should be checked. There wouldn’t be any symptoms. To put this in perspective, VW’s official stance is that using up to 1l of fuel per 1000 miles is within design tolerances.
I think I read somewhere that this is due to the longer service intervals. It was to ensure there was at least some fresh oil being put in.
IANAE so this may be complete pish!
Car was serviced in January
practically yesterday. (in geological terms)
Is this the first time you've checked it since the service? It might be they didnt put enough oil in to start with. Ive had issues twice with garages putting way too much oil in, (presumably based on the wrong service spec) and obviously not checking the dipstick before handing it back
What I would check though... is if the dipstick is coming up completely dry, is that its actually locating properly when you put it in there - if its not clicking completely home then its not going to reach the oil. Its also not unknown for the reading end of the dipstick to be a plastic attachment that can fall off (begging the question where has it gone) leaving the dipstick shorter than its supposed to be. Its also not unknown for cars to come back from a service with the wrong dipstick in!
VW’s official stance is that using up to 1l of fuel per 1000 miles is within design tolerances.
I had a BMW, it drank oil. I think it was considered normal for 1 litre per 750 miles.
As above, the red "oil light" is a pressure switch that tells you there's no oil being pumped arround the engine. That's why it comes on when the engine isn't running. That's telling you to pull over imediately before it sizes entirely!
Some cars have an orange light to tell you it's low (like a digital dipstick) but that's not universal.
OH's fiesta burns oil, my old focus didn't, both had broadly the same engine.
zippykona
Full Member
Car was serviced in January and it doesn’t smoke. It’s all very odd.
We would have to top-up the oil in our Shitroen C3 Picasso around every 750 miles or so. Looking in the manual, that apparently is 'normal'.
My Wife's Peugeot 308 with the same engine which she owned a few years prior, was similar although didn't use quite as much.
It was the 1.6VTi petrol.
Neither car smoked visibly, although they both had an addiction to relatively expensive fully synthetic oils.
Both cars has high service intervals as standard - 20k miles - and I did wonder if high oil use was a way to achieve long service intervals; the oil was being frequently changed 🙂
Both cars has high service intervals as standard – 20k miles
I do an oil and filter anyway at 9/10k.
Put some oil in it. Check it after every run and see if it's getting through an excessive amount.
I had a BMW, it drank oil. I think it was considered normal for 1 litre per 750 miles.
Had no idea BMW cars were 2 stroke....
I know the dipstick can’t lie but surely it would have seized up if the car has no oil in it?
Assuming the dipstick is correctly located in the tube, it probably does have some oil in it, just not enough to register on the dipstick, this is usually a bad thing. Get some oil in it ASAP, before you next start the engine ! get it up to the max mark on the dipstick then monitor the levels - check it every day until you understand how much it is losing and how its losing it.
All cars have an oil pressure light, but if this comes on while the engine is running, it usually means the engine is knackered, and is typically followed very quickly by a banging sound and then bits of engine falling out onto the road.
Some (quite a lot of modern cars) also have an oil level light - but I really wouldnt rely on it - the dipstick is your golden source of truth regarding oil levels*
* My bmw doesnt have a dipstick, only an oil level sensor and I dont like it at all, I guess I'm old fashioned.
Have you really not checked oil level since January? unless you do a very low mileage that is just plain negligent.
My bmw doesnt have a dipstick, only an oil level sensor and I dont like it at all.
Ditto new to us volvo v40 🙁
I justgot another car, oil light came on at the start of a 250mile trip.
I didnt read the dipstick properly, and put 2litres more oil in
Oil light kept coming on
got home after 700miles and changed the oil. a bit later the oil light came on again
no fault codes
Apparently its a common fault,once the oil light comes on(dodgy sensor?), if you dont lift the bonnet to check the oil level,the oil light stays on.If you open and close the bonnet,the oil light goes out. Mine comes on again after half an hour
So there is a sensor on the bonnetcatch which controls the oil light
Have you really not checked oil level since January? unless you do a very low mileage that is just plain negligent.
That's harsh. I'd wager that the number of drivers who check oil levels at all let alone on anything approaching a regular basis is vanishingly small.
Wow, get it topped up !
Haven't you popped any oil in it yet OP?
Go on, get cracking mate.
So there is a sensor on the bonnetcatch which controls the oil light
No, there isn't. I can say that with certainty as it'd be f*cking stupid.
Oil light kept coming on
got home after 700miles and changed the oil. a bit later the oil light came on again
no fault codes
Apparently its a common fault,once the oil light comes on(dodgy sensor?), if you dont lift the bonnet to check the oil level,the oil light stays on.If you open and close the bonnet,the oil light goes out. Mine comes on again after half an hour
So there is a sensor on the bonnetcatch which controls the oil light
I'm unaware of any cars that link the oil pressure light to the bonnet catch. What is likely is either the sensor is faulty (and your oil pressure is fine) or your oil feed/pump is knackered, and despite having lots of oil, you've got no pressure. It would be wise to get to the bottom of which it is.
I was on a Belgian motorway in the summer when the rear tyre blew out. About 10 minutes of driving after the spare was put on the low tyre pressure light came on.
Take away lesson don't trust the lights.
Ditto new to us volvo v40 🙁
My V70 5-cyl had 'secret' service manual dipstick.
So there is a sensor on the bonnetcatch which controls the oil light
No, there isn’t. I can say that with certainty as it’d be f*cking stupid.
Even if there were, it wouldn't "control the light," it'd report back to an ECU that the bonnet had been opened.
I had this 18 months ago with my old Honda Jazzbanger. I'd been a bit slack on checking oil levels, and the light started flickering on under hard braking/steep hills. Nothing showing on the dipstick (min/max 1 litre difference), no obvious exhaust smoke or emissions. So I poured in a litre. Nothing on the stick. Poured in another litre. Nothing on the stick....ended up taking best part of 3 litres. I'm still driving it, not sure if it affected mileage rates because the odometer stopped working some time ago. I'd suggest buying a big jug of oil sooner rather than later.
(I now check the oil on a weekly basis, like back in the Old Days).
I’d wager that the number of drivers who check oil levels at all let alone on anything approaching a regular basis is vanishingly small.
I would put some money on that bet too. I have owned my current car since new in 2018 and have never even opened the bonnet since I got it.
I can confirm that the dipstick doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the sump so it can register nothing whilst there's still some in there (only a little bit though). The manual should tell you what the full level is, and how much represents the difference between the min and max marks - say, half a litre. From that you could roughly extrapolate how much lower it will be off the bottom of the stick.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea to drive it when there's that little in, mind.
My 2014 plate BMW didn't have a dipstick - makes you wonder!
I had a BMW, it drank oil. I think it was considered normal for 1 litre per 750 miles.
My 330D once needed 1l between services ... other than that just the services for 200,000 miles
Its also not unknown for the reading end of the dipstick to be a plastic attachment that can fall off (begging the question where has it gone) leaving the dipstick shorter than its supposed to be.
Almost universal on Renault/Vauxhaul vans.... I take mine in and out like it's made of glass.
The manual should tell you what the full level is, and how much represents the difference between the min and max marks – say, half a litre. From that you could roughly extrapolate how much lower it will be off the bottom of the stick.
That reminds me,
On some engines, too much oil can be a Bad Thing also. Add like half a litre or a litre at a time and recheck, don't just wang in an entire 5L bottle.
On some engines, too much oil can be a Bad Thing also
It is a bad thing on all engines. How much extra it can safely take will vary though.
I’d wager that the number of drivers who check oil levels at all let alone on anything approaching a regular basis is vanishingly small.
I check the oil every morning*.
*in the council minibus I drive. Part of the checklist I sign for.
That’s harsh. I’d wager that the number of drivers who check oil levels at all let alone on anything approaching a regular basis is vanishingly small.
Just coz most people don't do something doesn't make it right, same with checking tyre pressures.
One of our works cars came back making 'a bit of noise' the garage put in 4.5l of oil & it lasted another 20k miles before it gave up on life.
I would put some money on that bet too. I have owned my current car since new in 2018 and have never even opened the bonnet since I got it.
How do you fill the screen cleaner? 😉
I open mine weekly during the winter and monthly during the summer...
But, no dipstick, it was decided the incidence of actually losing all the oil and trashing an engine AND the pressure sensor and level calculation software not working was far lower than the incidence of people parking on a slope and then over filling (few dozen trashed engines a year plus a couple of hundred sets of after treatment/exhaust pipes etc) or topping up with an incompatible oil in the engine and making a mess of everything (few hundred engines a year).
I can now check oil level on the display in the centre stack. And get a warning if anything untoward is detected, and that's once so far in 7 years since i got my first dipstickless car. And that was after some 8000km in 3 weeks driving across europe. It needed about half a litre.
Some people never check tyre pressures either Inc garages, we bought a second hand nearly new car from a highly regarded garage and when we got home discovered each tyre was 10-12 psi under inflated.
I check oil/tyres pressures weekly, quick visual inspection of tyres before every journey.
Your engine has almost certainly sustained some damage unfortunately.
Just coz most people don’t do something doesn’t make it right, same with checking tyre pressures.
Don't most modern cars have pressure sensors in the wheels? Not had a car without them for years now...
My beautiful car ('07 plate Octaia TDI!) was getting a bit 'chuggy' (well..more chuggy) and then the orange oil light oppped on...
Still oil on the dip, so must have just been a low oil light (first time EVER it's come on..). I topped up the oil (about 500ml) and she runs like a dream again..
Odd as I frequently check the oil (it's an old car I wanna keep running..she's on 120k currently)... maybe it was a long drive to the West country and back with bikes on roof?
Anyway... check the oil doods..
DrP
A car can go a long way with no oil... friend of mine did an oil change on a Toyota minivan, but inexplicably forgot to refill it, then drove from London to West Wales. After a couple of days tootling around the coast the engine got increasingly raucous until it went bang and left smoking lumps of piston and conrod embedded in the tarmac.
That reminds me,
On some engines, too much oil can be a Bad Thing also.
Which is why I suggested making sure the dipstick is the correct one and is reading correctly
Depending on engine size you can still have a few litres of oil in there and it not show up on the dipstick. Obviously it's still not good, so get it topped up before driving anywhere else.
You probably have a bad oil level sensor if it's not displayed on the dash.
What is likely is either the sensor is faulty (and your oil pressure is fine) or your oil feed/pump is knackered, and despite having lots of oil, you’ve got no pressure. It would be wise to get to the bottom of which it is.
If it's run low enough to trigger the low pressure warning light, the bearings could well be worn. If one of the bearings is worn they let the oil past too quickly so you don't have enough pressure, which then kills the remainder of the bearings fairly quickly.
That's why oil pressure used to be a gauge not just a light, you could judge how worn the engine was by the pressure at idle.
A car can go a long way with no oil… friend of mine did an oil change on a Toyota minivan, but inexplicably forgot to refill it, then drove from London to West Wales. After a couple of days tootling around the coast the engine got increasingly raucous until it went bang and left smoking lumps of piston and conrod embedded in the tarmac.
Jesus wept, how much of a daze was he in not to notice it before that? 100s of miles without any oil would have given him plenty of warning before it detonated itself like smoke, banging, overheating, loss of power, I'm literally amazed it would make it that far. It must have had some oil still left in it.
On some engines, too much oil can be a Bad Thing also.
It's bad for all engines. I worked in a petrol station when I was a teenager. One day a couple of women filled their car's engine with oil. As in, filled it to the brim, they didn't know about dipsticks. Then they tried to drive away and the oil just squirted out the engine's oil seals and splattered everywhere. They stopped when clouds of smoke appeared from oil hitting the exhaust manifold. Luckily didn't seem to do any permanent hard, we just had to drain the engine and refill it to the correct level and they went on their way. They didn't stay around for the cleaning up the forecourt aftermath.
A car can go a long way with no oil… friend of mine did an oil change on a Toyota minivan, but inexplicably forgot to refill it, then drove from London to West Wales.
No.. a car can go a long way without any oil showing on the dipstick - but there's still some in there. When the oil is actually gone it will be destroyed in seconds. Things will get very hot, expand, and jam.
Company Astra with the old school bulletproof 1.7Izusu engine, outside lane ~80mph. Recently fitted at main dealer service oil filter blew apart (bad batch of spot welds apparently), dropped its oil all over the M6 and wrecked the engine before I could shove the clutch in and freewheel to the hardshoulder. FOC new engine.
My ancient Berlingo has a surprisingly accurate digital oil level gauge when ignition on.
Just coz most people don’t do something doesn’t make it right, same with checking tyre pressures.
It doesn't make it right, but that doesn't mean it's worthy of scorn either.
I check oil/tyres pressures weekly,
The air line at the garage near me has gone up from 50p to a pound.
Suppose that's inflation for you.
100s of miles without any oil would have given him
... about 100 yards?
When the oil is actually gone it will be destroyed in seconds.
Yeah, my brother used to work in an engineering shop next to a scrapyard. They used to have a big Christmas pissup every year and set up an old engine on a stand, drain all the oil, jam the throttle open, and place bets on how long it would run before failure. From memory, about 10 seconds would be a good bet.
Don’t most modern cars have pressure sensors in the wheels? Not had a car without them for years now…
Some have pressure sensors that provide an individual readout, but most cars that I have had in the past 15 years have tyre pressure monitors, which use the ABS sensors to compare rolling radii rather than actual pressure. They will detect a 10-15% drop of any wheel compared to the ‘pressure’ set, but if the relative ‘pressures’set in the system are wrong….
You can drive with grossly under or over inflated tyres. I was once loaned a courtesy car that seemed a bit bouncy-the tyres were set at 50psi rather than 35psi but the pressure monitor was happy
Yeah, my brother used to work in an engineering shop next to a scrapyard. They used to have a big Christmas pissup every year and set up an old engine on a stand, drain all the oil, jam the throttle open, and place bets on how long it would run before failure. From memory, about 10 seconds would be a good bet.
THat's my you-tube search for the evening sorted...!
DrP
Mates Fiesta has seized due to lack of oil, no warning light came on ...Check your oil!!
THat’s my you-tube search for the evening sorted…!
DrP
(a lot longer than 10 seconds btw)
Puts hand up as previous owner of Mazda RX 8. Needed 500ml of oil a month- less than 1000 miles certainly.
We currently have 2 cars in the household with different versions of the same engine- 1.5tsi VAG.
The Skoda has done 68k with oil changes every 9k and never needed any oil in between.
My seat Leon has done 22k. First service was at 2 years or 20k miles so was done with about 17k on the clock. And I’d needed to add 500ml twice before then. Just had the “check oil level” warning come on again recently and I checked it to find oil up to the max on the dip. The light went out after I closed the bonnet and drove off so there is something in the theory of bonnet catch sensors. It needed /had room for about 300ml a couple of weeks later when I checked it again. Due it’s second service and oil and filter in about 8 weeks. Sats something about the way I drive the seat compared to how my wife drives the Skoda I guess…?
Running just off the end of the dipstick may not be terminal but could easily lead to intermittent oil starvation and cause damage.
Rod knock for example. Not terminal but isn't going to repair itself by filling the oil level back up.
No, there isn’t. I can say that with certainty as it’d be f*cking stupid
I can verify that the oil level warning light switches off when you open and close the bonnet on a 2010 VW caddy.
I can also verify its a stupid idea and not a great van either.
Also the dip stick indeed doesn't go into the bottom of the sump or it'd be too shallow given its usually the bottom couple of cm min/max.
One advantage of hydraulic tappets, you usually get to hear them rattle before complete failure.
To the sensor/ light naysayers - my T4 has a sensor under bonnet that resets check oil amber light once bonnet has been lifted and clised again.
It's same one as door light switch, I know as recently topped up oil after amber light came on and wouldn't reset despite adequate oil level after top up. Switch had corroded so replaced switch and light reset.
Puts hand up as previous owner of Mazda RX 8. Needed 500ml of oil a month- less than 1000 miles certainly.
That's by design though! There's an oil metering pump that plops it into the inlet to lubricate the streaks.
I used to get a car tweaking magazine may years ago, Car & Car Conversions for those that care. They had a series (Walkers Workshop) where a guy was running a metro or maybe a rover 216 in a one make race series. This had very limited tuning allowed. One thing they found was that running the lowest amount of oil that registered on the dipstick gained them 4hp. Which for a circa 110 bhp engine was a chunk of additional power.
So seems like the OP is just maximising his power gains.
Or you could always use milk instead of oil 🤣
Some have pressure sensors that provide an individual readout, but most cars that I have had in the past 15 years have tyre pressure monitors, which use the ABS sensors to compare rolling radii rather than actual pressure.
You can tell the ones with actual pressure sensors - the usual Schraeder valve tube is part of a fairly solid machined component that fits into the rim. Our Hyundai has them. Also, it gives you a readout with PSI for each wheel rather than just a 'pressure low' warning like our other car does.
Zippy.....are you still out buying oil...
Like most things vehicles have been engineered by clever people for your average idiot to use.
The dipstick usually only measures a fraction of the sumps capacity (typically 4-5 litres) so idiots are less likely to let them run dry.
No one goes out of their way to explain this, as said idiots would then use the oil light (there's still some oil left) as an indicator of when to add oil, such is the nature of people!
No one goes out of their way to explain this, as said idiots would then use the oil light (there’s still some oil left) as an indicator of when to add oil, such is the nature of people!
Again,
If you took a poll of drivers and asked "how do you know when you're running low on oil?" I reckon the percentage giving the answer "the little light comes on" would be in the high 90s. And that's probably being generous.
I just asked my partner, she replied "when the the light flashes to tell you."
Granted, that's a sample pool of L'Oreal's Marketing standards, but I make that 100% so far.
This had very limited tuning allowed. One thing they found was that running the lowest amount of oil that registered on the dipstick gained them 4hp. Which for a circa 110 bhp engine was a chunk of additional power.
Doesn't surprise me, my midget burns oil and you can feel the difference the litre between min and max makes to the engine.
I suppose it must be down to pumping losses in the crank between 1 and 2 or 3 and 4, lower oil level means more room for the air in the sump to move between cylinders.
Also, it gives you a readout with PSI for each wheel rather than just a ‘pressure low’ warning like our other car does.
Our Kia has a PSI readout per tyre.
grimep
Free MemberA car can go a long way with no oil…
As others have said, no, but some engines can go a long way with not enough oil. But even that's not always true. Yes some cars are pretty tolerant of it, either they have enough leeway in the system or they're just very rugged. But others aren't.
I bought a super cheap MX5, which was cheap because it came with a custom deathrattle and some aftermarket flakes in the oil. And people say, oh, the duratec's really bad for that! And it's not, it's just that it's an engine that you can't run low, and if you do, it'll die really quickly. So people that are used to neglecting cars and getting away with it, think it's the car's fault when they don't get away with it.
(kind of like how people say that the rare accurately sized bike tyres "blow up large" when they blow up right, and pretty much everything else blows up small. It's not just wrong, it's self-reinforcing, more people will kill their cars because of the people that say "yeah but nobody really checks it" or "yeah that car's bad for it"
No one goes out of their way to explain this, as said idiots would then use the oil light (there’s still some oil left) as an indicator of when to add oil, such is the nature of people!
What a lot of people don't realise is that while the engine will still be getting decent oil pressure when the level is below the dipstick minimum but high enough to not cause pickup issues (ie the oil is still going everywhere it's needed) what is missing is the cooling effect the oil has. The oil held in the sump during running actually helps cool the engine and it also allows the oil to cool enough to be fine for another trip round the block. Slightly low oil levels don't cause oil starvation, they allow the engine to run 'hot' and this thins the oil out leading to poorer lubrication. It's what give that distinctive 'burning' smell of an engine running hot due to low oil, an overheating engine due to lack of coolant smells slightly different.
but I make that 100% so far
Frightening isn't it?!?
Another good example is "I think a headlight bulb is out" all four blubs are blown!