[Closed] Digital SLR's for newbie

Couple of things to establish:

- do you have any friends with SLRs that might be willing to lend lenses/flashes etc. If so then going for their brand would be a good plan.

- will he be up for carrying around a BIG camera and potentially a couple of lenses? If not then he [i]may[/i] be better with a mirrorless/bridge/micro4-3rds camera (which these days get you *most* of the way to what a true DSLR does).

Go to a decent camera shop (or even Jessops) and try the options from Nikon and Canon (other manufacturers are available, but these are the big two). See how each feels in his hands, as he may prefer the controls and body style of one make over another. Don't rule out a decent 2nd hand body if you'd rather spend a bit less.

Don't just look at DSLRs.
Also look at CSCs (compact system cameras) ie Sony Nex / Olympus Pen / Panasonic GF.
The hybrids of Panasonic and the DSLTs of Sony ie A33/A35.

All the bodies I've had over the last fifteen years or so have all been Minolta or Sony, simply because I like the menu structure on them and find them really intuitive to use for me.

So......I'd say have a good play with a few and see which he finds he's most comfortable with.There's not a lot of point to great spec if you can't figure out how to use any of it.

- do you have any friends with SLRs that might be willing to lend lenses/flashes etc. If so then going for their brand would be a good plan.

@ Munqe-chick, if it's a DSLR that you're going for I'd recommend one of the two big players, Canon or Nikon. They're the big two for a reason. Nothing wrong with others though. Go to a shop, have a play and hopefully you'll see the benefits of walking out with a brand new Canon.
I love mine, instinctive to use and I love the L lenses.

My other half wanted to upgrade from a compact to a real camera. Ended up with a Panasonic DMC-GF2, all of the functionality of a full size SLR (apart from a few weird niche functions only found on pro-level SLRs) including full HD video, but cheaper, smaller and lighter thanks to lack of mirrors and using the micro 4/3 standard and they take the normal range of filter mounts already available for SLRs. The camera body and lenses equivalent to 28mm, 28-84mm and 90-400mm all fit into the same space as my old Canon SLR with 40-90mm lens!

As an SLR user from the days of film I was sceptical but really am convinced that for most people (including most existing SLR users) they are the way forward. They only seem to lose out for extreme macro and extreme telephoto use due to lack of lenses, but this will be remedied soon apparently. Calling them "bridge cameras" is really a very disparaging term for what I think is a fantastically executed interpretation of what a modern camera should be.

Calling them "bridge cameras" is really a very disparaging term

Wasn't intended to be - that's just what they [s]are[/s] [i]were[/i] called ([url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_camera ]See?[/url])

Now apparently they are called [i]Compact System Cameras[/i] - which is a mouthful and seems just as daft to me.

m43/sony NEX etc aren't bridge

a bridge camera has a fixed lens (which is also clear from that wikipedia link)

compact system - because it is a camera system you are buying into, with different lenses you can attach

- do you have any friends with SLRs that might be willing to lend lenses/flashes etc. If so then going for their brand would be a good plan.

Does this really happen? Because I'd feel very uncomfortable lending out my lenses to a newbie, in exactly the same way I wouldn't want the responsisbility of borrowing someone's nice and expensive kit

yeah - would you lend a lens?

Canon or Nikon. They're the big two for a reason. Nothing wrong with others though

I don't think you should limit yourself/him to these two.

Arguably the other manufacturers are pushing the boundaries more at the moment and offering better value.

Does this really happen?

Well I've certainly lent out lenses in the past.
And borrowed a mates lens and flash.

(Not talking 1k+ lenses, just basic kit).

Don't limit yourself to the Nikon and Canon. They are very popular because people don't bother to check their other options. Sony, Pentax, Olympus and Panasonic offer some great alternatives.

Personally I have a Pentax K-5 and it is a cracking camera. If you cant spend that much go for a K-r which is less than 400£ with kit lens. Excellent camera, better built than the alternatives, with some weather sealing built in image stabilisation and some of the smallest primes making it a valid alternative to m4/3s.

Also Sony A590 offers the same 16mp sensor found on the k-5 and D7000 but for almost half the price. If oyu want something a bit more revolutionary SLT-55 is also a great choice.

Does this really happen?

Yes. Maybe you need better friends? (-:

When I bought mine, I was lent three lenses by a friend, and given a Lowepro bag. I'm going on holiday soon, and someone is lending me a tripod and possibly giving me a travel tripod that they no longer use (if they can find it).

Go to a decent camera shop (or even Jessops) and try the options from Nikon and Canon (other manufacturers are available, but these are the big two). See how each feels in his hands, as he may prefer the controls and body style of one make over another. Don't rule out a decent 2nd hand body if you'd rather spend a bit less.

I was torn between the DSLTs of Sony and a DSLR of Nikon.
There is some amazing technology in those Sonys.
7fps and real-time continuous AF for HD video.

I'm not going to say which one I ended up with.

I will say that for me - I read up and knew what I wanted from the camera in terms of functionality. And what functions I could do without. The handling aspect was secondary because I think people are adaptable enough to be able to cope with different handling cameras so as not to let the handling affect them (too much).

So [i]maybe[/i] going into a camera shop, holding and pressing the camera isn't all that important 🙂

It was interesting to see Concrete Circus last night. Some of the film-makers were using SLRs with HD video to make their films.

SO people would recommend Jessops as a decent camera shop, since we have no clue! Okay that gives us a starting point. Thanks guys.
Otherwise a friend has recommend a Cannon 550D or Canon 600D (which he said would be his choice). Does anyone have any thoughts on these, ro still go and have a nosey? I have no clue so think shop may be best for him to play.

I am long term Canon, now using 1D bodies and I think they take amazing pictures. Just in terms of image quality, which has to be one of the main reasons one goes for a DSLR, as well as speed of operation, I don't think anything touches canon... except.....

If was starting again, and did need all the legacy/rental kit, I would maybe go Sony. Really great cameras with some lovely lenses, and some truly fabulous image quality.

I used Jessops in Basingstoke, the one near the train station, and they had fabulous real photographers working there who were a great help. I found when handling cameras I also found which one I liked best for my muckly hands. Important also if your going to get your "chops".

HTH

Kev

The handling aspect was secondary because I think people are adaptable enough to be able to cope with different handling cameras so as not to let the handling affect them (too much).

Really disagree with this, TBH. This article says it better than I can ...

[url= http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/driving_your_camera.shtml ]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/driving_your_camera.shtml[/url]

i'm looking at this too. Think i've settled on a nikon d3100. I just need to have a play with one now.

Yes. Maybe you need better friends? (-:

In all honesty - any modern DSLR will be able to everything you need to do & more.
There may be differences in image quality that you can get all hot & bothered about if you dig down to pixel level, but on the whole you will not notice the difference unless doing a side by side comparison. Even then I would suspect that they would be differences; not better or worse, just different.

When I looked for a DSLR, I tied it down to Canon or Nikon. Olympus didn't appeal for some reason, Sony were just starting out with SLRs and there didn't seem to be many aftermarket bits & pieces for Pentax.
I ended up going into the shop & trying out the two cameras I had whittled it down to. Within about 20s my mind was made up. The Canon felt cheap, lightweight & flimsy, whereas the Nikon felt like a better made product, that worked better in my hands. The menus were also more intuitive to me. I am not bashing Canon here, but in this instance the Nikon won it for me.

wors - Member
i'm looking at this too. Think i've settled on a nikon d3100. I just need to have a play with one now.

A mate of mine recently got one of these as a present & it is a great camera from the short play with it I had.

With regards to Jessops, they can be a bit hit & miss. It depends whether you get a camera geek helping you out or just someone who works there, but has no real interest. It's normally fairly easy to tell the two apart.

Definitely agree with handling the cameras.

When I bought mine it was a straight choice between Nikon and Canon (these days I'd consider other brands).

[u]For me[/u] the Canon ergonomics didn't work: the buttons were in the "wrong" place and it didn't sit well in my hands. The Nikon felt more intuitive.

Others report the exact opposite.

I don't understand how a camera can have it's button in the wrong place (unless, of course, they are not reachable when using - which is a plain design fail). Assuming they're reachable and easily moved then you'll get used to whatever you get first. I've tried a Nikon since I bought my canon and of course it's very odd and hard to swap, but I'm fairly sure that if I started out with it I'd think the same of the Canon.

Jessops are a ****ing expensive camera shop and at least two I've been into didn't seem to know very much detail about the range they sold, only what was in it, so I'd say they're not a very good shop. However they'll have a good range to try out. If you want a slightly more personal and detailed bit of camera help you'll need a friend into their cameras who knows a good independant shop and can take you around.

I was torn between the Big Two as well. Most of my mates had Nikons, a few had Canons, and I was offered a Canon at a good price.

I was concerned of 'backing the wrong horse,' so I had a quick play with both systems courtesy of friends. For me personally, the Canon felt immediately intuitive, I knew instinctively where the controls were, and if felt comfortable to hold. The Nikon wasn't any of these things. So then it was suddenly a no-brainer, and I bought the Canon.

Others have said the same thing only the other way around, so it's clearly different for different people; I'd say there's definite merit in going and playing.

Would you buy a bike without riding it? They're all essentially the same after all, wheel at each end, pedals in the middle, how can it have components in the 'wrong' place?

coffeeking - Member
I don't understand how a camera can have it's button in the wrong place (unless, of course, they are not reachable when using - which is a plain design fail). Assuming they're reachable and easily moved then you'll get used to whatever you get first.

Hard to describe & totally down to personal choice, but I had only ever used a Canon SLR (briefly) before deciding to buy an SLR myself.
The Nikon was far easier to use - I was changing setting immediately & everything just seemed to be where I expected it to be, even though it was the first time i'd picked it up.
For me, the Canon was the exact opposite.

Jessops are a **** expensive camera shop

I don't really agree with that.
When I bought my D80 with the 18-135 lens, Jessops were doing the cheapest price by far. There was an ad in Practical Photography that had a 'call us for a price' thing & they were cheaper than even the online shops by a decent margin. The fact that I could order online & pick up from store about an hour later was a bonus.

I recently bought the SB-700 flash for the camera & that too was almost cheapest from Jessops (from a UK based store). Bristol Cameras had it for less, but Jessops were able to bring the price down to within £10 of the Bristol Cameras price.

Jessops will shift on price, if you ask them to match stuff. They won't always come all the way down to an online price, but will generally get pretty close.

I don't understand how a camera can have it's button in the wrong place

Just comes down to the size/shape of your hands I think. With the Nikon I found the buttons and dials were positioned where my fingers rested naturally while holding the camera. On the Canon I adjust my grip to find them because they were in the "wrong" place.

For someone with different shaped (possibly smaller) hands I guess this is the "right" place.

e.g. here's the top of my Nikon D80:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

My thumb can work the back dial, focus point pad, AE-lock and my forefinger the front dial, shutter and power.

On the equivalent at that time, the Canon EOS 30D the controls look like:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

My fingertip doesn't rest on the shutter button, the top dial is awkward to reach, my thumb has little to do and changing the selected focus point was more of a faff.

Again others will disagree, that's why you have to hold them yourself and see which you like.

(Credit: Images from http://www.dpreview.com )

I do have large hands, but I find my fingers rest in all the right places 🙂 I also like the canon ability to switch things like focus lock and AE lock to other buttons which are close at hand (presume nikon can do similar but never tried).

Jessops will shift on price, if you ask them to match stuff.

... at the store manager's discretion.

I also like the canon ability to switch things like focus lock and AE lock to other buttons which are close at hand (presume nikon can do similar but never tried).

It doesn't need to: the AE/AF-lock button is already close at hand (under my right thumb) 🙂 But yeah the Nikons have a general purpose "Func" button for the left hand that can be assigned.

Jessops will shift on price, if you ask them to match stuff.

I personally don't like a shop that requires haggling, I find it underhanded and a PITA when shopping.

coffeeking - Member

Jessops will shift on price, if you ask them to match stuff.

I personally don't like a shop that requires haggling, I find it underhanded and a PITA when shopping.

Fair enough, but it seems a waste not to ask when it means I can get the product cheaper without incurring P&P charges, without having to wait several days for delivery & having a simple method of resolving problems should there be any.

(Mr MC)

thanks for all the tips, food for thought. I have a canon compact, not sure how transferrable the user interface is. I am adaptable though- I used to love nokia phones til I got used to a sony ericsson.

Local jessops have a package on "sale", some canon or other (I was busy and just glanced as I walked passed!) with lens(es?) down with a couple of hundred quid off.

Would you buy a bike without riding it?

Yes. Repeatedly. Every bike Ive bought come to think of it. Only had 2 fails and both were "dream" bikes (Trek Y22 back in the 90's, and a Mk1 Nomad last year).

Settled on a Sony SLT A55 for my impending purchase - slight twist on the SLR that it shoots faster and focuses during video due to not having a moving mirror - I'll let you read up about it.

That Sony is certainly an interesting camers with the SLT technology, think the lens has to be wide open for the high burst rate though which sort of negates one of the reasons to buy a DSLR

I ended up many years ago buying a minolta, I got very hooked on photography and wanted the very best lenses and then started to run in to issues, Minolta only had top G series lenses which were pretty rare and held there price very well, I ended up with high end G series lenses and now a sony body when I went digital, but the choice I have is remarkably less than if I had gone C or N from the start, especially in the second hand market. despite the quality of sensor and pictures being up to the rivals (sony a700 using the same sensor as the D300 nikon) the move to full frame is not an option as there are very few second hand sonys and my G series lenses are no longer supported so I can't get any work done on them (one needs an internal mark cleaning) so stand to have to refresh thousands of pounds of kit due to a bad choice at the start.... make sure you look to the future if you are buying any new system.

think the lens has to be wide open for the high burst rate though

why's that then? and why would that not be the same for any DSLR camera boasting a high burst rate?

handling is secondary over function since hands and brains can adapt whereas missing functionality cannot be added 🙂

With DSLT technology - you really have to see if the EVF viewfinder and decide for yourself.
Also make sure you can get all the lens you want at the price you want before buying into the system. Don't cut corners on the lens either!

Tamron lenses for Sony Alpha mount offer very good VFM, if not the very best in IQ, but for a beginner..........

I've seen some very good results.

Also, old Konica/Minolta lenses will fit Sony.

Personally having never used an OVF, I find the Sony EVF perfectly acceptable.

For me, the minimal size of the SLT cameras is a plus, as is video that is second to none amongst other things.

yes agreed for the mid range lenses but go for f2.8s and the like and you get the G series (rocking horse nuggets) or the new sony ziess stuff, not a lot around second hand at all. and yes there are sigma and the like and I do have a few lenses but still limited in the second hand market when compared... horses for courses but buy with an open mind and if you think you would ever want to go deeper in to it as a hobby or profession then it is worth some thought.

I have a canon compact, not sure how transferrable the user interface is.

Surprisingly well, I'd say. I suspect that it was coming from an IXUS that made me gel so quickly with the Canon dSLR compared to the Nikon.

Depends on your criteria - as above.

Canon/Nikon - ubiquity
Sony - value for money and great autofocus in live-view (nice when coupled with a tilt screen)
Pentax - small size
Olympus - even smaller size, good features (and customisability as above) and probably the best quality range of budget lenses, but not much support from anyone other than Oly

However.. you can pick up a refurbed entry level Oly DSLR for about 150 euros from a German ebay shop, which is bonkers. It also happens to be the smallest one anyone makes so that's handy for biking/walking.