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Reanualt Kangoo 1.5dci. Was perfect until about a week ago when it began failing to start first time.
Ignition on. Warning lights come on as normal. Wait until plug light goes out. Turn engine over. Starter turns over at normal speed but engine doesn't fire and plug and engine warning lights come on. Switch off and repeat. After about four goes it will reluctantly fire and runs fine after that.
Any ideas what its's likely to be so I don't go in 'blind' to the garage? Internet suggests a whole range of possibilities - plugs, injectors, sensors, etc.
as a non invasive quick test
find the fuel primer bulb under the bonnet.
before starting it first time for the day - give it a 4-5 pumps.
Try starting the car
Report back what it does then.
*edit google foo shows me pictures of it being a piece of crap add on tool to prime the fuel system.
Anyway the two thigns that spring to mind are an air leak in the fuel pipes post injector - if it was pre you would have fuel everywhere once it pressured up.
or the glow plugs are naffed - and although folks will say modern engines done need them to start in this heat - youll be surprised how modern engines use their glow plugs not just for starting but running when cold.
Leaky injector failure results in fuel draining back into the system. It will give you starting problems but repeated turning over of the engine is not quite as good as turning it over and keeping it going. I used to count up to about 10 seconds for mine. Connecting a second battery with jumps will usually get you started, a bit more oomph recharges the fuel and getting to the injector.
Also with injector problem the leak black takes time so if you leave it for just a few hours it will usually be ok, bit overnight or longer and you have a problem
do bear in mind thats not a fix - and youll eventually trash your fuel pump which relies on having fuel in it for lubrication.
Internet suggests a whole range of possibilities - plugs, injectors, sensors
Yup, could be any of those and more. Glow plugs are easy and cheap to try...
I'd suggest that you check the cam position sensor, they have a history of failing on that engine.
Our Scenic has the same engine and its fine first thing, but often takes 3-4 tries when its warmed up.
Its on the same side as the cam belts and fuel pump, but on ours you have to remove the engine mount to get at the sensor which is located under the timing cover.
They're only about £10-20 to buy new.
I need to get round to doing ours.
Also check the leak off pipes on the injectors aren't leaking / letting air in. Look at the clear low pressure pipes into the fuel pump when trying to start it, are there any bubbles going through it?
It could be glow plugs, you can take them out and put 12v across them to see if they work, but read up on what you're supposed to do first!
had one of those in a kangoo, same fault.
find the fuel primer bulb under the bonnet.before starting it first time for the day - give it a 4-5 pumps.
worked, then discovered mice had been nibbling the fuel line and the primer bulb, they quite like biodiesel.
hey - its an easy fix if thats all it is .....
I had a DTI in a vauxhall thats showed all the signs of dead fuel pump.
it was the leak off pipes letting the fuel drain back and the pump not being able to prime the system. in the end i clamped the breather on the tank shut and tput an airline into the fuel tank with a rag round it and pressured the fuel system to get it to come out the lowe pressure fuel pump union - an assistant nipped it up and it roared into life after that.
There was no primer bulb 🙁
How old? Clio and Megane 1.5dci engines from around the early 2000's are notorious for fuel pump disintegration damaging the engines.
Got a Modus and previously a Kangoo van with that engine which had a similar problem ages ago, if its doing it from cold i.e.First start of the day then I'd be changing the glow plugs first as there relatively cheap and easy to do.
If the difficulty starting is when its warm, say after nipping to the supermarket then again its most likely the Cam position sensor as previously mentioned(but could also be the crank sensor just to confuse matters).
The cam sensor on my modus is as per Bigyinns description but engine mount is not in the way, easy swap its just 1 bolt and a multiplug to undo,
The crank sensor on the other hand is on top of the gearbox by the side of the block, 2 bolts and 1 multiplug however there's allsorts of paraphernalia in the way, I have had to do the Cam sensor on the Modus and the crank sensor on the Kangoo but both had the same symptoms of difficult starting when warm.
devash - Member
How old? Clio and Megane 1.5dci engines from around the early 2000's are notorious for fuel pump disintegration damaging the engines.
2004...
unovolo - MemberThe cam sensor on my modus is as per Bigyinns description but engine mount is not in the way, easy swap its just 1 bolt and a multiplug to undo,
Jammy git, thats kinda putting me off doing it at present. Not because I can't, but because I cant be bothered, at the moment.I'll do it soon, promise!
It's a renault. Take it back and get something else. 🙂
2004...
[url= http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4362565 ]http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4362565[/url]
[url= http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/14-engines/88849-megane-dci-fuel-pump-problems.html ]http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/14-engines/88849-megane-dci-fuel-pump-problems.html[/url]
[url= http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/14-engines/129213-fuel-pump-failure-clio-iii-dci-delphi-pump.html ]http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/14-engines/129213-fuel-pump-failure-clio-iii-dci-delphi-pump.html[/url]
[url= http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/14-engines/122795-diesel-fuel-pump-disaster.html ]http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/14-engines/122795-diesel-fuel-pump-disaster.html[/url]
Basically if this is the case then the car will be a writeoff as it shafts the whole engine.
Renaults from around this era aren't particularly well-made. We've spent nearly £2k keeping our 2006 Clio going over the past two years. Finally gave in this month and bought a Ford Focus.
Its a shame as they are great looking, fun to drive cars.
Renaults [s]from around this era [/s]aren't particularly well-made.
Over the last 10 years had a Laguna, Renaultsport Megane and now got a Clio and the Kangoo. All been pretty much faultless up to now.
Priming with the fuel bulb made no difference as far as I can tell.
Renaults from around this era aren't particularly well-made.
I disagree. They were bombproof up until the late 90's / early 2000's when cars became more 'electronic', and then they really dropped the ball.
My mother ran a petrol Renault 5 as her local runabout from 1986 up until 2001 and the only work she needed to do was its yearly service / MOT.
I had a 03 1.9dci Kangoo that did this and it was the electric fuel pump failing, pretty cheap to fix.
Like others have said lots of other things it can be as well, I thought mine was glowplugs to start with.
They were bombproof up until the late 90's / early 2000's when cars became more 'electronic', and then they really dropped the ball.
The Five didn't have anything on it to go wrong (other than my five ate driveshafts) but the bigger ones were awful. My folks had a 21 savannah and its electrics were made from soft cheese.
Clios were so well made their bonnets flew open...
But compared to their PSA competition they were very well made indeed! 😆
We had Scenics and a Clio during this period, never ever ever ever again.
Got a 2005 Scenic 1.5 dCI for £750 with about £125k on the clock.
It needed quite a bit doing to it and is now at the point where there are only 2 issues.
The EGR valve keeps erroring, even though it has been cleaned and blanked off (still connected though) which mean the engine warning light is on.
The aircon doesnt work, probably a leak in the condensor rad at the front.
I've replaced the airbag clockspring assembly around the steering wheel after it randomly failed.
The electronics are not great, but given their complexity, its not surprising.
On the plus side its cheap to run and the VED is half what we were paying. Plus theres lots of space and parts are generally quite cheap.
I think I must've had the most reliable 54 plate kangoo out there. Hear lots of horror stories about how crap they are, but mine was pretty much faultless. Had a bit of poke to it too.
only problem I had was the fuel line being eaten, and the cab lights disintegrating..
toward the end of it's life with me, as it was used on site a lot it suffered from mud/cement damage, the rear drums stuck occasionally, or were uneaven, so braking could be a little off, but it was a quick fix and only an issue due to where it was being driven.
sold at 170k and as far as I know is still pottering about.
Had it in for some diagnostics over the weekend.
Whole list of other stuff needs doing before next MOT (mostly stuff I can do myself), but they couldn't determine cause of this issue. they got as far as saying it was clearly a fuel pressure issue but are pretty sure it's not the pump (phew!).
They want it back for a longer look, but what likely issues could cause a loss in pressure enough to stop it starting easily, but not so much it doesn't run smooth once started?
Sometimes there is a low pressure and high pressure pump. If low pressure fails the high pressure one will struggle to draw fuel from the tank.
Or there is an air leak or porous fuel line, or leak at fuel filter which is allowing air into the line and the fuel drains back to the tank, leaving an airlock.
I understand the Kangoo doesn't have a low pressure pump (I think the presence of the fuel primer bulb indicates that?).
The 1.5dCI is a high pressure common rail diesel, so there is a low pressure feed into the pump from the tank to the fuel filter to the pump. The fuel is then driven by the cam belt to produce the high pressure feed into the injector rail.
If there is air getting into the low pressure side, then the pump has to try and bleed this out first (air will compress, fuel wont), before it can generate the required fuel pressure to feed the common rail and injectors. This is possibly what is taking the time to get it to start.
Its probably worth checking the leak off pipes (they feed any unused fuel back to the fuel system {usually back into the filter}), as they can perish and introduce air into the system.
I fixed a merc diesel that wouldnt start exactly this way. Leak off pipe were perished, so the fuel filter was just sucking in air. £6 for a metre of hose and it started first time.