[Closed] Diane Abbott - I'm surprised it has taken a year

I predict closure and someone getting a ban after 4 or 5 pages.

Anybody else join me in a little prayer?

Racism like most -isms will have been eradicated when the need for a qualifying adjective (white,black,male, female, young, old) has gone.

The problem is that the term itself is a PC word, like Homophobia as another wrong title for basic Human tribalism used by those who seek power for Political rabble rousing.

Nobody gets born racist, it's something our sad society teaches along the way and the more politicos dwell on it the more damage, disenfranchisement, victimisation, gets attributed often to the wrong cause.

Technically yes taken in or out of context it's a racist view, but then we live with stuff like the 'Black Police Officers Association' no doubt there's a Muslim equivalent and until the need for such organisations is no longer necessary this sort of bollox will continue to demand bandwidth.

I have to say that until I became a more frequent visitor to this place I'd never have thought that a Mountain Bike forum would be such a haven for the Politically Correct, it is all a bit pathetic isn't it?

I dislike abbott and think she is a hypocrite - she is also dim and politically naive.

However I do not think this is racist at all. Just stupid, naive and illconsidered.

It really is so transparent and obvious watching all the rightwingers frothing at the mouth over her supposed racism. Laughable. add to that the usual tactic of inventing things that they claim I have said. quite honestly ridiculous.

black people like Hip hop oh mercy me what a racist i am ..its about that level of racism.
Its just point scoring and people who normally defend clumsy and blunt use of language with PC GONE mad are acting all faux outraged to score some points.
Lefties are not outraged as ther eis not much to be outraged by ...it is hardly clarksonesque in inflamatory use of language is it ...then you would all chortle at how witty he was for getting a reaction

Double satndards all round

Nobody gets born racist, it's something our sad society teaches along the way and the more politicos dwell on it the more damage, disenfranchisement, victimisation, gets attributed often to the wrong cause.

You dont think there is less racism now than before- no more no blacks, no dogs no irish signs is there for one thing

It really is so transparent and obvious watching all the [s]right[/s]leftwingers frothing at the mouth over her supposed lack of racism.

I dislike abbott and think she is a hypocrite - she is also dim and politically naive.

However I do not think this is racist at all. Just stupid, naive and illconsidered.

+1

Two sepperate points:
I agree with TJ;

its such an obvious piece of party political point scoring

I also agree with the (roughly) 99% majority on this thread;
its such an obvious piece of racist tweeting.

She (Diane Abbot) needs to own up, apologise, and take her punishment.
(see you all in 12 pages, I'm off for a ride)

She is as thick as two short planks.

It really is so transparent and obvious watching all the rightwingers frothing at the mouth over her supposed racism. Laughable. add to that the usual tactic of inventing things that they claim I have said. quite honestly ridiculous.

Thing is, the "right wingers" are usually watching the left doing the exact same thing toward them, so they're ready to jump on the game when they see a chance to do it. Double standards.

aracer - Member

"Where did I accuse the tories of racism?"

Would you agree that "the political right" in this country are on the whole tories - or by using that term were you referring to people further to the right than that?

In which case there's an awful lot of innuendo up there in your postings.

Yes the political right are tories as are others- however I ask again - where did I accuse anyone of being racist?

So you can't even mention 'enemies of the rockers' on here now? 😯

was anyone offended by her comment though?

seriously anyone here actually bothered what she said......?

Persinally, not particularly.

I kind of get what she was saying, albeit in a very clumsy way, and Twitter really isn't the place to be spouting opinions that need more than 140 characters (or whatever you get) to properly explain yourself.

Everyone's always banging on about how marvellously culturally and racially diverse the UK is, and how important an integrated society is ... and then the media keep on regurgitating phrases like "Black community", "Asian community" etc - they may be a nice soundbite for a news report but I believe these kind of phrases subtly affect attitudes and perpetuate the 'them' and 'us' mentality.

If I may digress a little...

bravohotel8er - Member
Mr Woppit - Member
Where's Effin, that's what I want to know.

He's been blacklisted.

Seriously? For what?

He's been blacklisted.

RACIST! 😉

I suppose she is claiming white peole have a history of racism, colonialism and divide and rule which is true

No argument from me there JY. The point is, if equally "true" comments were made about the history of a minority, there would bloody murder. Standards of equality should apply to ALL.

you could infer she is saying all white people do but she did not and I really doubt she meant that as she is not an idiot.

The comment she made was inspired either prejudice or idiocy. There is no other excuse. In reality, I'd say probably both looking at her track record.
Make no mistake, if it were a tory/libdem/green making racist comments, my opinion would be the same.

Mr Woppit - Member

If I may digress a little...

bravohotel8er - Member
Mr Woppit - Member
Where's Effin, that's what I want to know.

He's been blacklisted.

Seriously? For what?

There's been some sort of whitewash

Yes the political right are tories as are others- however I ask again - where did I accuse anyone of being racist?

Because the political right are usually attempting to defend one of their own from accusations of racism

the political right on here are usually attempting to deny racism / defend their own from accusations

Or am I to assume you accidentally missed off the bit where you explained that these were clearly false allegations?

Everyone's always banging on about how marvellously culturally and racially diverse the UK is, and how important an integrated society is ... and then the media keep on regurgitating phrases like "Black community", "Asian community" etc - they may be a nice soundbite for a news report but I believe these kind of phrases subtly affect attitudes and perpetuate the 'them' and 'us' mentality.

Indeed - when complaining about such things you really should try and avoid using an equivalent phrase though, whatever the context.

There's been some sort of whitewash

Still RACIST!!! 😉

Its just point scoring and people who normally defend clumsy and blunt use of language with PC GONE mad are acting all faux outraged to score some points

plus some bighitters aligning largely along normal divides for a lengthy bunfight

when this thread has done it's 15-20 pages maybe start one on Darcus Howe?

loum - Member

I'm going slightly off topic, and without meaning to detract from the Diane Abbott discrace, but why do you guess this? You know him well?

And btw, have a look at this video of Nadhim Zahawi in action.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/8272594/Nadhim-Zahawi-Up-to-his-brass-neck-in-sartorial-disgrace.html

No I don't know him, hence the guess. I also never said he was a saint himself but, being from an ethnic minority himself, he is likely to have suffered some form of racism during his life unlike most indigenous white folk.

it might be considered a slip of the tongue if diane abbott didn't have form - anybody (and tj of all people should remember this) recall ms abbott's charming comments on finnish nurses?

not that she should ever be accused of double standards. after all it was she herself who stood up after accusing blair and harman over sending their kids to public school and doing exactly the same herself to describe her position as 'intellectually incoherent'.

of course her decision was predicated on her being a single mum so that's okay. and she can't be a racist because, obviously, some of her best friends are white. that lovely michael portillo for example.

laughable, but all too predictable that the likes of tj should not only act as an apologist for such behaviour but also resort to name calling and such lazy daily mail style tropes as 'a slip of the tongue'.

Aracer - what on earth? can you please show where I accused tories of being racist? Or is it something you have simply made up? Or assumed I was saying?

aracer - Member
I predict closure and someone getting a ban after 4 or 5 pages.
Anybody else join me in a little prayer?

Sadly, there are too many atheists here for that to work, but worth a try

swiss01

TandemJeremy - Member

I dislike abbott and think she is a hypocrite - she is also dim and politically naive.

However I do not think this is racist at all. Just stupid, naive and illconsidered.

that do for you?

I am no apologist for Abbott

the Conservative spokesman for tweets

Diane Abbott racist?

Ooh yes she is!

Remeber the debacle of her comments regarding Finnish nurses? That somehow, 'blue eyed blonde-haired' nurses were incapable of looking after patients in Hackney?

Tell me how that [i]is not[/i] racist?

I did enjoy how Marc Wadsworth, who was chair of the Anti-Racist Alliance, as well as being a highly respected expert on race issues, pointed out to Ms Abbott that he himself was half-Finnish (stoppit), and that the current Ms Finland was a black woman of Nigerian descent. Abbott made massive generalisations about Finnish people that were ignorant, racist and culturally insensitive.

Abbott has achieved power because she appeals to Hackney's Black community, and also to many White middle class types who feel it's important for ethnic minorities to have political representation. She makes the right noises, popping up whenever a good publicity opportunity arises.

Truth is, she's a massive, massive hypocrite (praising Hackney's schools yet sending her own child to a private school), and not a fit and proper person to represent anyone in a democratic egalitarian society, in Parliament.

TJ, you are properly wrong on this one. Trust me. I know what I'm talking about, I live in east London, I see what's happening. You don't.

'White people love to play divide and conquer'? Racist ****. Does she actually know any White people?

Maybe she's spent too long hanging around Tories, trying to further her media career...

[img] [/img]

Now then, this is rumbling along nicely and everyone will soon forget the OP. The way I see her comment is that the encouragement of communities based purely on race with "leaders" leads to social division. When really we should be working towards integration and viewing communities as a whole no matter what race you are. Her idea of it being a white persons ideal is based on the past, when in fact my experience is that the continued division of communities based on race is something that is pursued by people in Equality Commisions and so on. Keeps 'em in a job.

I agree with elfin, internet explodes.

can you please show where I accused tories of being racist?

Can you read TJ? I mean you even wrote the lines I'm quoting. If you were suggesting that the accusations of racism "the right" were "usually" "attempting to defend" were false accusations (which is the only other possible explanation for what you wrote), then why not come out and say so?

Elf - I diasgee with you - same as on the finnish nurse comment. She had a valid point but made it so poorly she allowed her political opponents to shout racist at her. Dimwitted for sure.

I dislike abbott and think she is a hypocrite - she is also dim and politically naive.

However I do not think this is racist at all. Just stupid, naive and illconsidered.

not really, tj. she's made multiple statements over her career that could be construed as racism (and that, rather than her general dunderheadedness is what this thread is about), this last being less inflammatory than someofo the previous but of the same cast.

then again perhaps it's me who's wrong. by making fine distinctions (i'll avoid the term apologist for now)of a type that would almost certainly not be made for a public figure of a different background perhaps you are indeed manifesting that very 'divide and rule' instinct that abott suggests that, racially, is an imperative for you.

Does she actually know any White people?

I understand that some of her best friends are white people.

bravohotel8er - Member
I agree with elfin, internet explodes.

I agree with him as well.

World ends.

D.Abbott "Apologises for any offence caused"

Which isnt an apology really, implication is we heard her wrong and came to the wrong conclusion.

Aracer - yes I can read and I have asked you to explain where I said tories were racist. I did not say this and you have not explained or shown were I did.

oh, i see i've been far too polite. elf, i defer to your complete rightness.

swiss01 - Member

not really, tj. she's made multiple statements over her career [b]that could be construed as racism[/b]

Quite agree with you - 'cos she is stupid and naive she is unable to make her point without giving people the ammunition to accuse her of racism.

Next thing TJ and Elfin will be telling us that its racist to say there's a problem with gun crime in the black community

Erm, let's have a look shall we....

Oh, I have not. How disappointed you must be.

Only an ignorant fool would think such a thing of me.

I have no problem with you posing intelligent counters to any argument I may have, but don't go round claiming I'd say certain things.

Elf - I diasgee with you

It is your basic, inalienable Human Right to be wrong, and one which I will gladly defend on your behalf.

You don't live in east London TJ.

Shall I start commenting on Scottish stuffs, perhaps?

glitchybump

cos she is stupid and naive she is unable to make her point without[s] giving people the ammunition to accuse her of racism[/s]being racist

Elfin has nailed it.

Remeber the debacle of her comments regarding Finnish nurses? That somehow, 'blue eyed blonde-haired' nurses were incapable of looking after patients in Hackney?

Tell me how that is not racist?

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race. It's absolutely shocking. Load the shotguns lads. We're going over the top.

*is shocked*
*faints*

I'll try one last time - then assume that TJ is just on normal behaviour and ignoring the point and being deliberately obtuse because he's been caught with his pants round his ankles (again)

the political right on here are usually attempting to deny racism / defend their own from accusations

Are you suggesting that such accusations are false? If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism.

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race. It's absolutely shocking. Load the shotguns lads. We're going over the top.

Unfortunately, as with so many of your thread distillations dd, that's not actually true.

wrecker - I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.

It's ok!

She's been on the telly and apologised for causign offence.

still, don't let that ruin a good thread.

[i]due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist[/i]

I suspect this chap had the same problem;

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race

I think you'll find that most of my violent middle class fantasies are directed against TJ. 😉

[Only joking TJ but hell, one stupid comment deserves another]

Are you suggesting that such accusations are false?

If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism.

TandemJeremy - Member
wrecker - I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

Message read and understood. Please do not repeat 1000x. Even if provoked!!

i also think soulwood's comment is worthy of further discussion.

however as i'm having a go at tj and rather enjoying it, i think i'll continue. so,aside from your position which appears to be that if one expresses nakedly racist opinions it's excusable on the grounds of naivety and 'stupidity' (i'll parenthesise that last because of its obviously perjorative nature). here was me thinking it was just ignorant racism..

however i'm aghast that you should find anything defensible in abbott's position on finnish nurses. aside from that fact she had to apologise on the grounds it was such utter nonsense, a fact i wrote to her about at the time (at some length!) you're willing to be an apologist for this on the grounds above.

as i recall you work in the nhs in that embra. i presume you have no nurses from different countries who may well 'have never met a scottish person before' and therefore, under abbot's criteria, shouldn't be working here. do you share the same opinion about doctors? why, only this week, i started working with a romanian lassie who was straight off the plane. what would your response be be, given your 'naive' defense of abbot?

wait, it feels curiously familiar - would it be 'send them home'?

(sorry, that last was too obvious to resist!)

teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.

What, blonde-eyed blue-haired Finnish nurses being incapable of looking after Black patients?

I believe the intent was not racist

came out in such a way as to appear racist

Stop avoiding the question - its not about the intent, or how it appeared - was the statement, itself, racist?

Elfin is spot on. Again.

I also agree with this:

She is as thick as two short planks.

The above sentiment applies to far too many politicians unfortunately.

When questioned about her son’s schooling she responded by saying that “West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children.”
“So”, Neil asked, “black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?”
Abbott then clamed up, saying that she had said all she was going to say. Then Neil, obviously irritated, went for the jugular;
“Supposing Michael said white mums will go to the wall for their children. Why did you say that? Isn’t it a racist remark? If West Indian mums are as wonderful as you say, why are there so many dysfunctional West Indian families in this country? And why do so many young West Indian men end up in a life of crime and gangs? You didn’t want your son to go to a school full of kids who have been brought up by West Indian mums.”

wrecker - I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.

Thanks for the reply TJ, but I fail to see how the intent was anything other than casual, ingrained racism.
I would like to see her sacked.

West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children

"If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism."
simply does not follow

It does not follow that if accusations you mention are not false that they are then true? TJ logic.

Nursing.

I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.

there is a point to what she said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it

Wry grin at Wikipedia.

Aracer - you said I had said tories are racist. I did not. that quote does not say that.

there is a point to what she said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it

So defenders of casual racism usually say.

Agreed aracer - however I - as explained above- have actually seen the point she was making in action. On more than one occasion.

you said I had said tories are racist. I did not.

So by mentioning accusations of racism against them - which you have now confirmed you believe were true - what exactly were you saying?

I meant exactly what I said.

which you have now confirmed you believe were true

Stop making things up that I have never said - where have I said that?

Ah thanks for pointing that out aracer. I put it there especially as I saw you were active on the thread and wouldn't be able resist. You're lovely and reliable like that.

So TJ what you're saying is that the behaviour of a few people who've not had the benefit of being raised in a multicultural society who also happen to be white reinforces Diane Abbott's assertion that as a general rule most white people have a prediliction to be ignorant colonialists?

Or did I miss some subtlety there?

[edit] Actually, please don't reply to this. Ms Abbott has apologised for her remarks which is the best outcome anyone could hope for. Time to close the thread.

Stop making things up that I have never said - where have I said that?

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

"Are you suggesting that such accusations are false?"
No

i thank you for that quote elf. i am avoiding the londonishness in favour of the scotch as my association with your land is not the east but the 'sarf' as i believe you say it. my oh's mum is just coming back from (wouldn't you just believe the coincidence) scandinavia where she's been in hospital to have more of the same in that londontown. curiously she's more worried about service provision rather than if she can continue her excellent (and multilingual) care from those lovely swedish people.

however, as tj's wrongness has, i believe, been illustrated beyond any useful furhter discussion and also because we've now had four pages of 'is it racism' (as usual?) i'd like to attend to soulwood's comment and that of abbot's original interlocutor.

does the notion of a 'black community' have any real meaning any more beyond serving a range of vested (and sometimes opposing) interests? and does the constant sidelining of such a discussion,as above, into a mutual recriminative process of accustaion and counter-accusation act as a process of obfuscation that obscures the real social and economic problems of a large group of society who share far more in terms of problems than differ just because they're from a different ethnnic background?

Aracer - I did not make any claim as to the validity of the accusations at all. so I am neither suggesting the accusations are false or true

Anyone got any comment on this?

Nursing.

I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.

there is a point to what she (abbott) said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it

I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.

So, that's the fault of the Bulgarian nurses, that they weren't adequately supervised and that such cultural differences weren't taken into consideration, then? I'm sure that with proper supervision, any problems could have dealt with effectively. My mum worked as a nurse in the 50s and 60s, and had to deal with patients from backgrounds she had absolutely no knowledge of. She also worked alongside nurses from the West Indies and Africa, so had to learn to understand them too. They all coped. The NHS did not collapse.

Abbott's a racist cah. Elfin hath spoken in the third person again.

THREAD CLOSED

To me, she does seem to be racist. You could argue on the basis of that tweet that she was referring to 'white authority figures' which would still be a bit contentious, but more understandable. But previous comments, especially the nurses one, does seem to betray a bit of a mindset. She seems to be a bit, "I'm not racist, [i]but[/i]..."

Corect elf - and thats the point abbott was making - just badly

thats the point abbott was making - [s]just badly[/s] with casual racism

can anyone help me allocate sparse resources, plase (remember, we're all in this together) and predict whether this one'll get to 1000 before the guns one gets to 2000

I'm going for the big-money post this time round but I can't watch both

can anyone help me allocate sparse resources, plase (remember, we're all in this together) and predict whether this one'll get to 1000 before the guns one gets to 2000

I was just wondering how to resurrect my atheism one (which is still comfortably ahead of the guns at the moment)

do these guys read stw or what?

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/race-named-as-today%27s-thing-to-talk-shit-about-201201054732/ ]http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/race-named-as-today%27s-thing-to-talk-shit-about-201201054732/[/url]

TJ

you said I had said tories are racist. I did not.

TJ

The tory party clearly has racist elements in it

[i]threads passim[/i]

HOWZAT!