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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278
Responding to criticism of the term "black community leaders" she wrote: ''White people love playing 'divide & rule' We should not play their game''.
Really. I'm speechless.
she has subsequently tweeted somethign about the context being misinterpreted... but then that's what racists do.
You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?
You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?
It's fair enough to point out that racism isn't just the preserve of the white though, no?
It is V8 - its just that this is not racist.
TJ - I think the point is that she used the phrase 'white people' which is the sort of casual racism that when applied to 'black people' as if they were an homogenous group causes a lot of comment.
'Some white people' or even just 'some people' might have been a less controversial choice of wording, no?
White people love playing 'divide & rule'
Negative generalisation based on nothing more than skin colour? sounds like racism to me.
even just 'some people' might have been a less controversial choice of wording, no?
You mean like, "Some gun owners might be mentally unstable, we should look at how we can better control access" rather than "THEY'RE ALLL NUTTERS! THEY WANT TO KILL YOU! BAN THEM! BAN THEM ALL!"
Selective approach to when a sweeping generalisation is a bad thing, eh?
Precedent is an 8 game ban.
[i]Selective approach to when a sweeping generalisation is a bad thing, eh? [/i]
who me? I've deliberatly avoided the gun ownership thread - it was already over 4 pages when I saw it and I guessed it was probably not going well 😉
Politicians and the media tend to subscribe to the belief that there is a "Black Community", "Asian Community", "Muslim Community" etc and these communities all have "Leaders".
I think it's that sort off bolx the fragrant Diane was objecting to.
wwaswas, no not you..... 😉
It's not racist if it's a racial minority commenting on a majority, the same as it isn't heterophobic(?) for gay people to openly mock heterosexuals, and it isn't generally considered sexist for women to make lewd remarks to men or mock them mercilessly.
Probably social mores, not worth getting worked up about.
BigJohn - MemberPoliticians and the media tend to subscribe to the belief that there is a "Black Community", "Asian Community", "Muslim Community" etc and these communities all have "Leaders".
[b]I think it's that sort off bolx the fragrant Diane was objecting to. [/b]
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but my interpretation is that she is saying precisely the opposite of that.
''White people love playing 'divide & rule' We should not play their game''
Not referring to C19th as present tense (unless she was quoting someone else)
Generalisation (negative) based solely on colour of skin
8 game ban, as loum suggests 😉
(However, "political opportunist catches out political opportunist" would make a good summary, I reckon)
It's not racist if it's a racial minority commenting on a majority, the same as it isn't heterophobic(?) for gay people to openly mock heterosexuals, and it isn't generally considered sexist for women to make lewd remarks to men or mock them mercilessly.
Wrong on every count, I'm afraid. I sincerely hope that was in jest.
Politicians and the media tend to subscribe to the belief that there is a "Black Community", "Asian Community", "Muslim Community" etc and these communities all have "Leaders".I think it's that sort off bolx the fragrant Diane was objecting to.
And thats a fair point, but it would be 'racist' to suggest that 'Politicians and the media' are exclusively white, as she proves herself.
''[s]White people[/s] Jews love playing 'divide & rule' We should not play their game''
TJ see how ugly that sounds? Just for once fella, please.
You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?
That tory MP being Nadhim Zahawi who, I'm just guessing, has a better grasp of racism than most on here.
More importantly, why is such a porker shadow health secretary. Not setting a very good example is she 😉
It's not racist if it's a racial minority commenting on a majority,
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Allthepies - FATTIST!
i tried mcboos's rule of thumb too. it made me feel all grubby.
but i don't think i'll calling for her resignation, we're all capable of momentary daftness - especially in this age of instant and irretrievable communication...
It's not racist if it's a racial minority commenting on a majority,
apartheid?
You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?
That tory MP being Nadhim Zahawi.
🙂
Is she not the one who shouted about private education. And then when she saved her mp salary/expenses money sent her son to a private school.
mcboo - I see your point - but |I don't agree - cos I read the context. In context not racist at all IMO just sloppy use of language
CaptainFlashheartWrong on every count, I'm afraid. I sincerely hope that was in jest.
agree with yo there capt.
It is racism.
oooh, I see the BBC has changed the page to include a smiley Diane rather than a shouty one - she must have a good PR advisor / lawyer
Come on Teej, I'm reeally REALLY loking forward to watching you try to wriggle out of this one. Alternatively, you could admit that you were a little ahem, premature shall we say, and you were wrong...
Edit, blimey, TJ said "IN MY OPINION"!!!!
Folks, real progress has been made here today.
Surrounded By Zulus - Member
It is racism
It's actually the sort of casually revealed, deeply embedded negative attitude that TJ should be railing against
v8 - have read the context I do not believe Abbott was being racist at all - I think its cheap point scoring from a tory. She use the words poorly and left herself open to the accusation.
Its just cheap point scoring form a tory - thats all it is.
it would be 'racist' to suggest that 'Politicians and the media' are exclusively white
It wouldn't be a racist statement. Just utterly incorrect & ridiculous.
Little racist slip of the tongue, who cares? I am white and I don't, I rather like her. I would defend her as a good character in parliament and a good tv wonk.
However, it is racist to generalise based on someones colour. If you think it isn't then you really need to sit down and consider how much party allegiance blinds you to the truth on other matters.
Dear Diane has a history of naivety and this is just another example. Need to engage her brain better before making points that may be valid but just need to be expressed better.
But there is no doubt that there is an asymmetry in how the term 'racist' is used. At its extreme (not here) it becomes the tyranny of minorities. Racism like most -isms will have been eradicated when the need for a qualifying adjective (white,black,male, female, young, old) has gone.
Interesting to compare DA's comments, taken out of context or not, with the comments of Cindy Butts and Madix on Newsnight last night. Far more balanced views on all issues including progress within the Met on eradicating racism, the issue of positive discrimination, bad versus good officers, the record of black officers within the police etc.
Newsnight then went downhill when Rev Dr Giles Fraser came on for first TV interview since his resignation. I think the CoE are quietly rather relieved that he has gone now, albeit with adverse publicity. Not one religious comment throughout the interview from a member of the Church was telling.
I dont think Diane Abbott is actually any more racist than some old bore at the bar in a golf club whinging about immigration. But they fall into the same category, people of a certain age and generation who are stuck in their ways and who cant see that the country has moved on. Wouldnt have thought either of them would make credible candidates to sit in parliament but then I dont live in Hackney or Surrey.
Can we expect a statement from Dianne soon:
"Some of my best friends are white, but......"
😆
she got it wrong, end of
she used the same generalisation she was complaining about, which is a schoolgirl error
such are the dangers of twitter!
Nobby - Member
You are speechless that a black MP pointed out racism and a tory took it out of context to score political points?
That tory MP being Nadhim Zahawi who, I'm just guessing, has a better grasp of racism than most on here.
I'm going slightly off topic, and without meaning to detract from the Diane Abbott discrace, but why do you guess this? You know him well?
And btw, have a look at this video of Nadhim Zahawi in action.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/8272594/Nadhim-Zahawi-Up-to-his-brass-neck-in-sartorial-disgrace.html
TandemJeremy - Membermcboo - I see your point - but |I don't agree - cos I read the context. In context not racist at all IMO just sloppy use of language
TandemJeremy - Memberv8 - have read the context I do not believe Abbott was being racist at all - I think its cheap point scoring from a tory. She use the words poorly and left herself open to the accusation.
Its just cheap point scoring form a tory - thats all it is.
Can you please explain what you think the context that makes this acceptable is? This simpleton here can't understand how you think what she said was just poorly worded.
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Next thing TJ and Elfin will be telling us that its racist to say there's a problem with gun crime in the black community 😉
Maybe "they" are all violent fantisists as well eh TJ?
http://www.thenewblackmagazine.com/view.aspx?index=2493
Dear Diane has a history of naivety and this is just another example. Need to engage her brain better before making points that may be valid but just need to be expressed better.
This
Its all it is - a poorly expressed point that gave a political opponent ammunition.
correct.Torminalis - MemberHowever, it is racist to generalise based on someones colour
My allegiance to what party? I don't have one 🙂If you think it isn't then you really need to sit down and think about how much party allegiance blinds you to the truth.
its not racist its simply naive and ill expressed and taken out of context.
TJ, if it had been said by a Conservative, you'd be up in arms, frothing with self-righteous indignation. Get over yourself, man!
She made a negative comment, based solely on the colour of skin. That is racist, however you cut it, whatever the context. Was it malicious? Almost certainly not. Was it racist? Yes.
Torminalis - MemberHowever, it is racist to generalise based on someones colour
[TJ's reply was] [b](That is) correct.[/b]
So, she was being racist then. Get it yet?
[i]its not racist its simply naive and ill expressed and taken out of context. [/i]
*wanders off to look for that gif of the bloke openign and closing his mouth whilst searching for the right words to express his disbelief*
Well funny watching all the politically right posters on here shouting racism.
I do wish everyone would stop saying 'the black community' though. Which one?
and then...
Ethnic communities that show more public solidarity & unity than black people do much better
Slightly dim MP in inconsistency shocka... 🙄
its not racist its simply naive and ill expressed and taken out of context.
Stored for use next time somebody white gets accused of being racist in similar circumstances.
Well funny watching [s]all[/s] one of the politically [s]right[/s] left posters on here shouting not racism.
It is some mistake to be "naive" about racist language whilst publicly commenting on a racial/ language issue such as
and being a member of parliament."I do wish everyone would stop saying 'the black community' though. "
Well funny watching all the politically right posters on here shouting racism.
Why? how is racism a socialist/conservative divided issue?
I dont really care and think the Racism issue is getting way too much coverage cuz the reporters dont want to go and stand in the wind and get wet doing weather stories whilst waiting for the Falklands to kick off again ?
Anyone who reads the Guardian can't be racist. FACT!
Same as they can't be labeled as elitist hypocrites for choosing to send their children to expensive private schools
Well funny watching all the politically right posters on here shouting racism.
Are you suggesting that all non-left wing people are racist?
You really need to have a hard word with yourself.
This comment;
'White people love playing 'divide & rule' We should not play their game''.
Is not anywhere near a generalism. It's targetted and specific in it's intent.
Because the political right are usually attempting to defend one of their own from accusations of racism - seen it on here many times.
Abbott is a bogey figure to the right hence this row. My view - she is just naive and a bit dim? I don't really like her much at all.
Its such an obvious piece of party political point scoring
TandemJeremy - Member
Well funny watching all the politically right posters on here shouting racism.
Come again? I guess I'm somewhere on the centre-right-liberal wing of humanity. That make me racially suspect? Hope my Caribean-Indian wife doesnt find out about this. The mind boggles.
Bah, can't be arsed, I shall go back to my cup of tea.
Well funny watching all the politically right posters on here shouting racism.
The smoke screen has commenced....
wrecker - Member"Well funny watching all the politically right posters on here shouting racism".
Are you suggesting that all non-left wing people are racist?
You really need to have a hard word with yourself.
Crossed posts
where do I say that?
Why it is funny is the political right on here are usually attempting to deny racism / defend their own from accusations. Wonderful double standards.
was anyone offended by her comment though?
seriously anyone here actually bothered what she said......?
Wonderful double standards.
From you, yes.
She added: "White people love playing 'divide & rule'. We should not play their game" followed by "#tacticasoldascolonialism" - a way Twitter users flag up keywords and topics.Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi told BBC Radio 5live her comments were "intolerable".
"This is racism," he said.
"If this was a white member of Parliament saying that all black people want to do bad things to us he would have resigned within the hour or be sacked.
"For a shadow minister to hold these sort of views is intolerable, it is wrong, she needs to go."
We would not talk about a white community or white leaders of this would we - who is it the EDL leader [ spits] or Peter Thatchell, Simon Cowell??
I suppose she is claiming white peole have a history of racism, colonialism and divide and rule which is true but you could infer she is saying all white people do but she did not and I really doubt she meant that as she is not an idiot.
Point scoring for political gain IMHOShe does have form I recall her , when challenged on sending her son to private school [ hypocrit beyond words and should have been hounded out of political life for this IMHO] she used the phrase Black mothers love their children -- again inference being white ones dont - again that was not there either
She strikes me as one of those people who lets one thing about herself define her you can see it in in many [ see i should say some there] groups . some gays, some vegans , some women etc ... I dont like it personally
She annoys me but it is not racism
Have you just seen her on Sky News?
Stop in the street by reporter and asked to explain her tweet, she literally just run away !!
Because the political [s]right[/s] left are usually attempting to [s]defend[/s] accuse one of [s]their own from accusations[/s] the other side of racism - seen it on here many times.
What do we reckon guys?
eleven, maybe twelve pages?
Why do you guys keep inventing things yo think I say?
Where did I accuse the tories of racism?
Where did I say mcboo is racially suspect?
And a bit racist and in the shadow cabinet 😉she is just naive and a bit dim?
It [u][b]IS[/b][/u] an obvious piece of political point scoring - given that an MP has opened their mouth I'd have thought that was a given
Why it is funny is the political [s]right[/s] left on here are usually attempting to [s]deny[/s] accuse racism [s]/ defend their own from accusations[/s]. Wonderful double standards.
I reckon it go round in circles for at least 14, Z-11
Its becoming a [b]Bit-Hit-A-Thon[/b]
Stand back mere mortals, lest you be harmed by the weight and righteousness of the opinions expressed. I hope someones carving all this in stone 😉
What do we reckon guys?eleven, maybe twelve pages?
I think this is already a TJ thread isn't it?
What should I call people of two races?
I need to get this sorted for future incase I'm asked.
Is it ok to say
Mixed
Half-cast
IC(something)
I don't know?
If TJ was shipwrecked on an uninhabited desert island he'd form two political parties....
then one of them would establish a splinter group.
I hope someones carving all this in stone
😆
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isn't there a hilarious audio recording of her trying to defend the importation of monkey bush meat? sure it was her? basically saying it was legitimate on religious grounds despite the trade being illegal.
Why do you guys keep inventing things[b] yo think I say[/b]?
That's a bit 'street' for you, Teej.
If TJ was shipwrecked on an uninhabited desert island he'd form two political parties....then one of them would establish a splinter group.
I'm sure he'd create Milky Joe..
Where's Effin, that's what I want to know.
Mr Woppit - MemberWhere's Effin, that's what I want to know.
He's been blacklisted.
I dunno. It's a thorny subject, one which the mods get twitchy on quickly. I predict closure and someone getting a ban after 4 or 5 pages.
Where did I accuse the tories of racism?
Would you agree that "the political right" in this country are on the whole tories - or by using that term were you referring to people further to the right than that?
In which case there's an awful lot of innuendo up there in your postings.