[Closed] Derren Brown , what an arsehole

I hope they get some good counselling after that, regardless that could really screw someone up.

is it not just all made up for TV?

I asked the very same question to a friend who worked in the production of his armoured car heist thing a few years ago. Apparently he works with them for several weeks after to deprogram and debrief them and will also use his powers of evil for good to help them with any other issues theyre having - giving up smoking, anxiety etc. Almost worth the TV exposure to iron out the deeper mental kinks

You'd think with these superpowers we'd be deploying him against Daesh, not getting him to produce light entertainment.

Don't agree with the title here necessarily, but found that very disturbing. Poor TV in my mind. Shocked by the results too.

is it not just all made up for TV?

Aye, didn't see it but sounds exactly the same as the other stuff he's done in recent years. No tricks, no particular cleverness, just a Derren Brown fan dutifully playing along with a scenario he's placed in.

His shows are no different to celebs eating insects on I'm a Celebrity.

I haven't watched it but are you sure he made people commit a murder?
that kind of stuff tends to be somewhat frowned upon by the Law.
Illusions for entertainment are legal, however...

Aye, didn't see it but sounds exactly the same as the other stuff he's done in recent years. No tricks, no particular cleverness, just a Derren Brown fan dutifully playing along with a scenario he's placed in

asked a similar question, to the aforementioned friend in the same conversation. she assured me that the participants weren't stooges and had no idea that they were in an artificially created scenario. now having known her for years, i have no reason to disbelieve her, so if that is the case the whole fanboy element doesn't come into it.

however what it does show is our willingness as individuals of supposedly freewill and determinism is to be manipulated by fairly basic psychological techniques and follow the 'authority' figure. so no tricks, but his cleverness comes in in getting people to do the most extreme of acts that they would never normally dream of.

builds on a solid body of respected psychology studies, including a very famous experiment in the 60's where people were asked to press a button to supposedly administer an electric shock to a person in another room they couldn't see. when they did, they heard noises of pain & discomfort through a speaker. a person in a white coat wielding a clip board kept asking them to turn the dial up on the shocko-meter and press the button again, at which point the screams got louder. the vast majority of people complied purely because of the white lab coat and clip board signaled authority - worrying stuff when you think how easily people can manipulate us in a wider more serious context

which reminds me, where did i leave my tin foil hat....

I enjoyed the fact he called the corpse Bernie

Derren Brown , what an arsehole.

+lots.

The only thing it made me think was that some people are quite pathetic and will do anything to comply with their peers.
Derren plays on this to make quite interesting telly.

The special effects dummy was pretty cool though.

I prefer his mind bending stuff - like where he persuades a bookie that his losing ticket is a win.

copa - Member

just a Derren Brown fan dutifully playing along with a scenario he's placed in.

I can't say for the TV but he did a couple of shows at a venue I worked in a long time back, it wasn't fake- he pulled up a friend of mine onto stage that I'd blagged in with my crew pass. I got the feeling maybe a couple of people were plants or at least contacted beforehand but I saw the show 3 times and he worked with a load of different people, no duplicates. (he also had 2 total failures in a row which fairly screwed up one performance)

Don't think it's sorcery either mind, just applied cleverness.

sofaboy73 I would agree they're not stooges, not in the traditional magic sense, because they don't know what's going to happen. But I don't agree that they're unaware of taking part in a Derren Brown scenario.

They're all Derren Brown fans for a start who have been auditioned. So what he gets people to do is no more remarkable than any stunt on I'm a Celeb.

In both cases the people taking part know that they're not going to come to any real harm.

So they work with him for weeks and have lots of debriefs but have no they are taking part in a fake scenario.

I'm sorry but that doesn't sound right.

[i]So they work with him for weeks and have lots of debriefs but have no they are taking part in a fake scenario.[/i]

Afterwards, I presumed.
If they are "stooges" then the only ones being duped are the viewers. That would be a total waste of time surely..

Oh yeah he said after. 😳

I hate my dyslexia. 😀

[quote=DezB ]If they are "stooges" then the only ones being duped are the viewers. That would be a total waste of time surely..Err, do you watch much "entertainment" on TV?

So they work with him for weeks and have lots of debriefs but have no they are taking part in a fake scenario.

I'm sorry but that doesn't sound right.

after the event

They're all Derren Brown fans for a start who have been auditioned. So what he gets people to do is no more remarkable than any stunt on I'm a Celeb.

but the [s]celebs[/s] c-listers in the jungle are conscious that are involved in a media spectacle and therefore comply with it becuase they want the attention and don't want to be voted off (or whatever happens) and lose the TV exposure.

the people on derren brown's shows are 'auditioned' several months in advance to test their susceptibility to to psychological manipulation. then months later they are dropped into these scenarios unaware that it's all artificial - therefore they are not playing up for the camera like the jungle twunts

agree with the earlier post, these overly complex scenarios aren't as impressive as his earlier stuff - like the bookie thing - and it's all variations on a theme, but still fascinating to me, more so as there is no 'trick' and he tells and shows you exactly what he's doing

If they are "stooges" then the only ones being duped are the viewers. That would be a total waste of time surely..

It is. And it helps to create a false belief in the power of psychological effects - particularly hypnotism.

[i]do you watch much "entertainment" on TV?[/i]

Mostly sport and drama, comedy too. 😆

They're all Derren Brown fans for a start who have been auditioned. So what he gets people to do is no more remarkable than any stunt on I'm a Celeb.

Load of rubbish.

I'm a celeb cast get paid and know exactly what they will be doing.

The guy on Derren Brown had no idea that the work event he was at, had anything to do with Derren Brown.
He failed an audition for a totally different (fake) show months earlier.

Did you even watch it ?

Absolutely bloody fascinating, I'd love to have a lot of long conversations with that bloke.

Some of his spectacle stuff is a bit much for me, but some earlier shows where he did Jedi mind tricks on the street (like the bookie one) are fantastic. He also explained the background and history of what he was doing too.

Did you even watch it ?

No I didn't but I have done some research into Derren Brown.

I spoke to a person involved in a Trick or Treat illusion about his experience. When they filmed a particualr 'hidden' camera sequence, he had accompanied the film crew.

It doesn't mean that he knew what was going to happen in the illusion. But he knew he was taking part in a scenario and went along with it.

Absolutely bloody fascinating, I'd love to have a lot of long conversations with that bloke.

Some of his spectacle stuff is a bit much for me, but some earlier shows where he did Jedi mind tricks on the street (like the bookie one) are fantastic. He also explained the background and history of what he was doing too.

isn't it!!

one of his first spectacle type things he did when he kidknapped the guy from the pub who had been playing the zombie shoot em up arcade machine, to then drop him into a 'real life' zombie house of horrors was priceless for the constant look of the poor guy evacuating his bowels in his trousers.

i also really like the Russian roulette thing, where he held a gun to his own head and had to judge only from the unwilling participants voice which chamber of the revolver had the bullet in. slightly spoilt by the Sun splashing the next day that apparantly it was a blank cartridge as the police wouldn't let him use a real bullet, however that would still do some serious damage if it went off when held next to your head

Nlp is crazy stuff. Humans are stupid and easy to manipulate. Read up on social engineering too, I love that stuff.

however what it does show is our willingness as individuals of supposedly freewill and determinism is to be manipulated by fairly basic psychological techniques and follow the 'authority' figure. so no tricks, but his cleverness comes in in getting people to do the most extreme of acts that they would never normally dream of.

Voting Tory being the obvious example.

I do wonder where they find these people though. They must be particularly likely to behave how he wants.

That zombie one...I couldn't believe it. If that had been me and I was terrified and convinced I had been cornered by zombies, I would have gone mental trying the stab them through the brains to kill them to try to survive. Not sure the actors would have appreciated that! Would have made good telly.

Last nights episode, was a bit meh.

Did you even watch it ?

No I didn't

😆

Aye, didn't see it but sounds exactly the same as the other stuff he's done in recent years. No tricks, no particular cleverness, just a Derren Brown fan dutifully playing along with a scenario he's placed in

This.

I had a friend who was a stage hypnotist for a while. He told me it was all about selecting the sort of people who will play along with it. (He prefaced this with : "Hypnosis isn't what you think it is").

As someone above pointed out, if this stuff was real it would be in mainstream use...

Good entertainment though.

one of his first spectacle type things he did when he kidknapped the guy from the pub who had been playing the zombie shoot em up arcade machine, to then drop him into a 'real life' zombie house of horrors was priceless for the constant look of the poor guy evacuating his bowels in his trousers.

Interestingly, the guy playing the zombie arcade game later popped up as a contestant on Take Me Out. In both cases, unscripted but he knew what was expected and behaved appropriately.

[img] [/img]

Derren Brown is very, very good at what he does. He uses a combination of tricks; careful selection of participants potentially going back months, cold reading and suchlike, and he is a superlative actor. But one thing you need to understand is even his explanations are smoke and mirrors. At the end when he says, "and here's how I did it," it's part of the trick. Don't believe a word of it.

I didn't see the show in question, didn't realise it was on. But I've seen plenty of others and done some digging to try and work out what was going on. The Russian Roulette one was compelling viewing, but he was never in any danger; it wasn't even loaded with a blank I don't believe, it was a trick gun which dual-fired. He had complete control over exactly when it would go off. Penn and Teller use a similar concept with their nail gun stunt (the nails are in the board, not the gun).

How much the patsy actually believed he'd committed murder I don't know, but I'd be very surprised indeed if it was as presented.

The only thing it made me think was that some people are quite pathetic and will do anything to comply with their peers.

A old uny friend of mine is his manager. He used to come to our student house parties in Bristol (well, once or twice) and seemed alright. Not an arsehole by any means, more of a 'thinker'.

Interestingly, the guy playing the zombie arcade game later popped up as a contestant on Take Me Out.

Not really "interesting" though.

The way Derren brown often selects his "targets" is by setting up fake casting interviews for TV shows, people who apply to attend these are also likely to apply to appear on other shows too. And this guy ended up on take me out eventually.

In isolation, it doesn't really show anything.

...In both cases, unscripted but he knew what was expected and behaved appropriately.

It's pretty funny that you think Take me Out is unscripted though 🙂

Makes you think, doesn't it.

The way Derren brown often selects his "targets" is by setting up fake casting interviews for TV shows, people who apply to attend these are also likely to apply to appear on other shows too. And this guy ended up on take me out eventually.

Nah, anyone who appears will know they're taking part in some kind of a Derren Brown production. The exact details/name may change but they'll know generally what they're getting involved in.

There are a number of reasons - producer guidelines, insurance, health and safety etc.

It's pretty funny that you think Take me Out is unscripted though

Fair point.

[i]It's pretty funny that you think Take me Out is unscripted though[/i]

Yeah, need more insights into TV from clever folk like this

Two comments -
The people that went through with the push. I was shocked - there wasn't that much coercion involved. I'd be worried if I was one of their friends. They pretty much demonstrated that they would commit murder if it was in their interests. Surprised the police aren't having a word.

Secondly, if you went to one of the castings you'd now be wondering if every situation you encounter has Derren Brown behind it...

Nah, anyone who appears will know they're taking part in some kind of a Derren Brown production. The exact details/name may change but they'll know generally what they're getting involved in.

Are you persevering in insisting this to be true, despite the fact that you didn't watch last nights program.

This was covered in the first five minutes of the program that you didn't watch.

There are a number of reasons - producer guidelines, insurance, health and safety etc.

Peoples poor logic is often explained by "health and safety" isn't it 😉

Are you persevering in insisting this to be true

Ofcom guidance on the use of contributors:
[url=http://] http://www.channel4.com/producers-handbook/ofcom-broadcasting-code/fairness/fairness-and-contributors [/url]

Where a contribution is significant, that is, endures over a period of time or is likely to infringe the rights of the individual, for example privacy rights in reality television show formats, it will normally be necessary to agree with the contributor, before filming begins, the nature of the programme and contribution, the parameters of filming and broadcast and the detail of all other contractual rights and obligations of the parties, in the form of a detailed contributor agreement letter.

[i]Where a contribution is significant, that is, endures over a period of time or is likely to infringe the rights of the individual, for example privacy rights in reality television show formats, [/i][b]it will [u]normally[/u] be necessary[i][/b] to agree with the contributor, before filming begins, the nature of the programme and contribution, the parameters of filming and broadcast and the detail of all other contractual rights and obligations of the parties, in the form of a detailed contributor agreement letter.[/i]

That's that sorted then 🙂

He's done alright for a modern Paul Daniels hasn't he?

I am a fan (despite seeing one of the live shows where the big reveal at the end went totally wrong), but there's way more magician than manipulator about his antics. Except, maybe, in his manipulation of his audience - as has been said you shouldn't take anything from him at face value, especially not his 'honest and open' explanations of how he does what he does.

He would make an awesome advertising exec, or a truly terrifying politician...

Derren Brown , what an arsehole

I'm not sure he is actually. I think the Guys talented and the shows he puts on are really interesting on many levels.

However I do think he really does hang loose in his subject matter on occasion, this being one of them. I do think it could be the pressure from the Producers and the Channel to continually push the boundaries of Human interaction, whilst gaining TV ratings.
A bit of Shock and Awe to gain bums on seats you might say.

As a technique, well he's used it to many a good thing. Become a bit of a Legend in his own Lunchtime.
I've followed his progress up until a couple of years ago and read many of his books out of interest, but don't much watch or read the output anymore.

If get the feeling that the 'trick' isn't really on the person in the programme. It's on us, the viewers. He's managed to convince lots of us that what he's doing isn't a set up, and is actually happening. I enjoy it, but much as I know Bear Grylls was never really in the middle of nowhere I am pretty sure that I'm the patsy with Derren. Doesn't stop it being entertaining though.

If get the feeling that the 'trick' isn't really on the person in the programme. It's on us, the viewers. He's managed to convince lots of us that what he's doing isn't a set up, and is actually happening. I enjoy it, but much as I know Bear Grylls was never really in the middle of nowhere I am pretty sure that I'm the patsy with Derren. Doesn't stop it being entertaining though.

I think that's spot on. And in a way the illusion is not just on the viewer but on society in general. It's based on creating the persona of a man of science, somebody who's 'honest about his dishonesty', who uses psychological power to achieve many of his illusions. None of which are true.

The term for what he does is mentalism - not the Alan Partridge version. It's finding ways to present convential tricks/illusions in a way which makes them appear to be something else.

Uri Geller did the same but claimed to be using psychic instead of psychological powers.

Uri Geller did the same but claimed to be using psychic instead of psychological powers.

Which is why Uri Geller should be considered the @rsehole. I read some of James Randi's books that expose Uri Geller - at least Derren Brown doesn't claim to be psychic...

TM

Uri Geller did the same but claimed to be using psychic instead of psychological powers.

The thing that made me chuckle about Uri Geller was the little industry of Uri "Geller debunking literature". Something amusing about a Gravy train created out of debunking someone else's gravy train. A nice little symbiotic money making scheme akin to academics selling revisionist books contradicting each other each other in an endless cycle of money making.

....but if people enjoy "psychics" and are willing to pay and people enjoy "psychics" being debunked and are willing to pay then who are we to complain?

The term for what he does is mentalism....It's finding ways to present convential tricks/illusions in a way which makes them appear to be something else..

That's hardly a revalation, it is explicitly stated in the first line of his Wikipedia page.

He says at the start of every show that it's basically all trickery of various types and that he has no "powers"

If get the feeling that the 'trick' isn't really on the person in the programme. It's on us, the viewers

[img] [/img]

Sufficiently advanced psychology is indistinguishable from magic 😉

That's hardly a revalation, it is explicitly stated in the first line of his Wikipedia page.

He says at the start of every show that it's basically all trickery of various types and that he has no "powers

but this is thew issue with him - he claims to be using his mind to manipulate people, when really he is doing something else. It's misdirection

I lost all respect for him when he claimed to predict the balls drawn in the national lottery. It was blatantly obvious he was using a split screen and a slight time delay. Literally anyone could have done it

The people who take part in his shows are all stooges - they know they are in a show, and they know they are expected to play along - even if no one explicitly says this to them. Its works the same way as a stage hypnotist act. Early in the show there are lots of people on the stage (I was once one of those people) - as the show goes on, and the action required gets more outrageous, people who aren't playing along to the right degree are wheedled out. DB does the same thing - except those people who are rejected early on do not get shown on TV

He says at the start of every show that it's basically all trickery of various types and that he has no "powers"

He doesn't. The disclaimer he used to use disappeared years ago. He has publically stated that he's moving away from 'tricks' and more towards science experiments - which is where I think he enters dodgy territory.

he claims to be using his mind to manipulate people, when really he is doing something else

What is he doing?

I saw him doing a hypnotism show to a few dozen people in '96 in my halls of residence - I went believing hypnotism was complete rubbish and left utterly astounded at what I'd seen. He hypnotised a sceptical friend of mine to be unable to see Derren and had him cowering in terror that a chair was levitating and flying at him (that Derren was just picking up and swinging around).

He hypnotised a sceptical friend of mine

But surely.....

The people who take part in his shows are all stooges

I don't know what to think now 🙂

I saw him doing a hypnotism show to a few dozen people in '96 in my halls of residence - I went believing hypnotism was complete rubbish and left utterly astounded at what I'd seen. He hypnotised a sceptical friend of mine to be unable to see Derren and had him cowering in terror that a chair was levitating and flying at him (that Derren was just picking up and swinging around).

no, your Friend is just suggestible. I'm guessing Derren didn't have your friend cowering in fear straight off the bat did he?
Stage hypnotism works by ramping up the crazy antics in small degrees. When I took part we were all told we were "driving a car" or "hot". We all went through the motions. At no point did the hypnotist say "only act like this if you are truly under my spell and believe this to be real"

I got tapped on the head to leave the stage early on - guess I wasn't getting into the spirit enough. But those that stay get asked to do more and more silly things. By then end someone thought he was a monkey etc. But by then they are invested in it - they can't suddenly step out of the act and say "actually I'm not hypnotised and I'm not doing that" - they are never given the option, and they would look like an idiot in front of the audience if they did.

If you tried to run a hypnotism show with people who had never seen one - and had no idea what hypnotism is supposed to be - it wouldn't work

I was hypnotised by a stage hypnotist once. As above I was in perfect control of what I was doing but couldn't see any reason not to do it - I'm normally quite a self concious person, but basically the hypnotist encouraging you to do things (and getting the audience to encourage you too - as was evident in the Derren Brown thing last night) gives you the confidence to do them without any thought as to what the negative consequences are. Also they put you in a position of safety - you know that the audience aren't laughing at you, they're laughing at the 'hypnotised' you.

but this is thew issue with him - he claims to be using his mind to manipulate people, when really he is doing something else.