[Closed] Depressing subject, but let's talk death.

Life itself is a terminal incurable illness.

yes, but your attitude can change. At mid 40s now your opinion about what quality of life is might be vastly different to what mid 70s you thinks is quality of life. But yes I do agree. I'd also say that after dealing with the death of both my parents and sorting out their associated finances and funerals make your after death plans as detailed & specific as you can.

The older you get the less time you waste faffing about waiting for better weather before going out on your bike.

According to up-to-date stats I've got about 35yr left.

So that's only 1,820 weekends of riding.

Life itself is a terminal incurable illness.

yes, but your attitude can change. At mid 40s now your opinion about what quality of life is might be vastly different to what mid 70s

To me, the later is one that I would struggle to accept.

I will never be a burden on my wife and kids so should I get a diagnosis whereby I would require caring for I'm off to dignitas.

I've also told them in no uncertain terms that I absolutely do not want a funeral. Just reduce me to ashes and scatter me wherever. I'm not religious and dont want anyone to pay a stupid unnecessary bill.

We were up to 10.30 last night scouring Lancashire's hospitals trying to find our elderly neighbour who took himself off to hospital with his wife, who has dementia. After one of their daughters involved the Police the nearest hospital's security staff finally go up off their fat arses and went to look for him, they found her wandering distressed around the empty corridors and him waiting in a surgical triage room. It's tragic to see how their lives are falling apart around them. One of the hospital receptionists told us that it's not uncommon for them to clock off late in the day and realise that the same elderly folk are sitting in the main reception area who have been there since morning. When somebody speaks to them it turns out they've come to hospital and are sitting patiently, thinking they are in a queue and the waiting time is just very long. Being elderly they don't want to make a fuss so have waited all day. Tragic.

I saw my Dad wither away as a vegetable over a year and a bit...with no chance of ever coming back (Massive stroke). No Sight, unable to really breath on his own. Pretty much no movement apart from the odd shudder.

They kept him alive as long as possible as he was in a private home and the government was paying the bill.

Disgusting.

How in this day and age we have more care for cats and dogs than we do for Humans is beyond me.

If you had kept a dog alive like they did to my dad everyone would be up in arms.

I used to have a pub and in his last years we had my grandad we put a comfy high chair for him in the bar, on his 92nd birthday he was sat there and the village wag asked him how old he was today,

92 said Bert , jeez said the wag i dont ever want to be 92 !

you will when yer 91 said Bert.

do others wish you could just sign a form that would ensure you never have to experience a terminal illness type decline and could instead choose to end your life when you see fit (without heading abroad)?

Yes. But.....

I've heard / seen three interviews in the last two days on this.

One was the jockey Freddy Tylicki; paralysed from the waist down after a fall last Nov (OK, didn't hear the interview but he's giving his first full one after the event today)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/horse-racing/38275323

Then R4 had Matt Hampson, paralysed neck down in a rugby accident talking about his experience

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/608482/Rugby-Leicester-Tigers-Matt-Hampson-accident-scrum

And lastly, a 2013 TV interview with Joost van der Westhuizen which i watched again yesterday after the news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38882483

Sitting here, now, if something like that happened to me i'd want to be 'put out of my misery' straight away. No coming to terms with it, no questions. Close my eyes and be done with it.

But reading and seeing these guys stories; sometimes something happens when the shit hits the fan in a massive way like this which creates an inner strength to carry on fighting. I don't know whether I'd have that strength; I hope I never need to find out, but my hat is well and truly tipped to those like Freddy, Matt and Joost that did.

#thatsnotdustitsmebeingemotional

you will when yer 91 said Bert.

I remember my mother talking the same way as the Flanagaj the original poster, when she was 60-ish. Now she is 91, almost 92, she's hanging on to her unhappy life while my dad (also 91) looks after her.
Your thoughts on hanging onto life change as your body & mind change,

I personally think that there should be an ability to chose to end life in certain circumstances. Especially in the name of preventing suffering. We do it for animals, so why not ourselves.

It seems hypocritical to insist that everyone has a right to life (which I fully agree with) but that they don't have a right to chose to end it. Its their life to do with what they want with it.

planned my exit, what do you think of the ethics/effect on other people of my decision:

cycle/walk to exposed area (if I'm not demented) enjoy my last bottle of Glendronnach, fall asleep.

Substantial sum of money left to Mountain Rescue for the recovery of my body.

Family seem happy with the arrangement, although of course they will not help me accomplish this for legal reasons.

Not sure if I am alone here (I'm mid 40s), but do others wish you could just sign a form that would ensure you never have to experience a terminal illness type decline and could instead choose to end your life when you see fit (without heading abroad)?

Yes.

I have a savings account to pay for the travel abroad and repatriation for this very reason. I don't want to die early or wish my life away but once I reach a point of not being able to look after myself I'd rather go on my own terms. Medical advances are all good but we should have an opt-out if we want to let nature have it's say on when we're done.

To quote Woody Allen:
"I'm not afraid of death; I just don't want to be there when it happens."

On the other hand, the thought of living for ever and ever is REALLY scary . . .

I've already planned it.

On the sun lounger by the pool looking at the mountains, listening to Miles Davis "So What" and drinking a nice tall glass of Russian Standard and tonic.

Just one last slurp, and then....

It is especially difficult when the old/terminal ill person does not wish to go to hospital and have their life and suffering prolonged, but their children don't respect their wishes. It is of course done out of love and wanting to keep their family member alive, but I am sadly seeing how much distress this can cause, on both sides. When the old person loses their mobility and independence, it seems they also loose some of their free will to chose what treatment they do and don't want.

As a slight aside, I've always found it odd how, when doctors assess someone as 'having mental capacity', if that person is suicidal, they are found to not have capacity and they then lose their ability to chose. As if it's not possible to logically decide to end your own life. Catch 22.

planned my exit, what do you think of the ethics/effect on other people of my decision:

cycle/walk to exposed area (if I'm not demented) enjoy my last bottle of Glendronnach, fall asleep.

Substantial sum of money left to Mountain Rescue for the recovery of my body.

Family seem happy with the arrangement, although of course they will not help me accomplish this for legal reasons.

This is what I will do, if I am able. Walk to somewhere very cold and exposed, undress then neck a bottle of Scotch; vaso-dilation will have you gone in a few minutes as cold surface blood rushes to your core.

We make a huge ceremony about birth and the beginning of a person's life. There has been massive social investment in improving the birth experience since the last war. With the increasing age and frailty of our population we need to find a way of celebrating their achievements and the end of their life. The many Dignitas type clinics in Switzerland are not a satisfactory solution as they are a shoddy and undignified way to die. I don't understand why family courts can't scrutinise people's cases and make the decision, which should overcome present objections to euthanasia. We could then have nice, privately run clinics where people go to end their lives, not grubby rented apartments and hotel rooms as they have in Switzerland. I'm sure investors would would jump at the opportunity to build decent clinics and create a new income stream.

Esme - Member 
On the other hand, the thought of living for ever and ever is REALLY scary . . .

Healthily, no worries. The thought of death and then non existence for the rest of time (currently predicted as infinite), assuming you don't believe in an afterlife. That's scary. Once it happens it's no worry as you don't exist to worry about anything, but the final years could be a constant panic that death is around the corner.

Trimix - Member 
According to up-to-date stats I've got about 35yr left.

Yeah, that's something that suddenly hits you in your 40s. Up until then seems like life goes on forever, then you realise you've wasted half of it already and while the first 10-20 years seem to take forever to pass, the last 10 seemed so short and you realise there's not enough time left. Then still find things to waste time on. Though riding bikes is an awesome waste of time.

Some thought provoking responses above. I really admire those that have already planned things out.

How in this day and age we have more care for cats and dogs than we do for Humans is beyond me.

If you had kept a dog alive like they did to my dad everyone would be up in arms.

Like was mentioned above, isn't it time that rather than just celebrating life, death should be treated in the same way. The whole approach of keeping people alive as long as possible is truly shocking. I have no evidence, but I am convinced that my late father who died of cancer in a hospice decided he had had enough and was helped along. On reflection I hope that was the case as he knew his time was coming and he had already made peace with the world.

It seems hypocritical to insist that everyone has a right to life (which I fully agree with) but that they don't have a right to chose to end it.

Largely because we've come to accept the concept of a right to life, but haven't yet got our heads round a right to death.

This is mainly due to thological thinking: life is bestowed on us by an all powerful god, so it follows that it's god's right to remove that life from us. St Augustine & St Thomas of Aquinas were key writers propounding this view.

It was only in the middle of the 20th century that suicide ceased to be a criminal offence.

We've a long way to go before we throw off the shackles of religious thinking and allow ourselves those choices.

Most people that are terminally ill won't be in a position to wander up a mountain or get themselves to Switzerland (for dignitas) without significant assistance unless of course you're suggesting that you're going to take these actions very soon after being given a terminal diagnosis, when you are feeling basically well. By the time you've lost hope you're likely going to be unable to get up a couple of steps unaided.

The law needs to change in order to make the act of terminating your own life simple, accessible and dignified. No point blaming healthcare professional as they have to work within a legal framework, the change needs to come from parliament.

planned my exit, what do you think of the ethics/effect on other people of my decision:

cycle/walk to exposed area (if I'm not demented) enjoy my last bottle of Glendronnach, fall asleep.

Someone my mother knew did similar in the late 60s: timed his arrival at hospital so that it would be too late to revive him. He figured medics were the best suited to managing it and the mess would be kept to a minimum.

According to up-to-date stats I've got about 35yr left.

Nope. You might have less than a year or you might have another 60. Working to averages gives you an unrealistic sense of control. There are many aspects of your health over which you have no control.

So what would you want your last words to be? Something philosophical perhaps? Instructional? Profound and memorable?

Mine will probably be:

"(Sluuurp) Mmmmm. Luvvly!"

This is mainly due to thological thinking

Much as I dislike organised religion, I think this is perhaps a little unfair.

Rather, the elephant in the room is one of exploitation. By the time you're in a position to actually want to die, you're probably incapable of reliably stating that wish. Meanwhile, little Timmy has his eyes on his inheritance, "squeeze the needle, it's what he would have wanted." Even preparing in advance is tricksy - you might well have the best of blasé intentions in your 40s, but an entirely different opinion when you're 85.

Apropos of nothing, we got a company-wide email not half an hour ago, one of our engineers died suddenly last night. He was 64, was in the office yesterday laughing and joking with us all.

Voluntary euthanasia FTW.

Once you get past enjoying life, bullet to the head or a nice slice of Arsenic taken alongside one of those nifty pills all secret agents carry.

Can not see the point of dribble and regret mixed with bed baths and Rusks.

My mum (86) had lymphoma and she got increasingly ill last year until middle of July when she collapsed in the house. She had signed a DNR (mainly because my dad had been persuaded to due to having had heart surgery) so the paramedics were informed and they stopped defib. She never made it to the hospital. I saw her the evening before and it was extremely distressing (she nosedived significantly over her last 4 days). Now I love(d?) my mum to bits and I miss her every single day but I'd not have had her de-fibbed and spend her last days in hospital, especially in the confused state I last saw her in. She was adamant that she had lived a good life and, well, you have to die of something.

My dad (81) had lung cancer and heart disease (amongst other things) and he died 12 days after my mum. The family were round in the evening, he seemed in relatively good spirits, he knew he was loved and he died peacefully in his sleep (my bother was also in the house so not alone either). I'm glad he didn't die of his cancer and we siblings have discussed things, we think that given a choice his death would be easy top ten in a multiple choice option...

I feel they died with dignity.

I'd like to think my own death would be the same.

Whilst I am full of respect and admiration for those that fight, say, cancer (and beat it) but myself, I think if that was my fate, I'd not go through all that. Planning on an early check out myself.

At a slight tangent here, I recently read a book by an American psychotherapist called 'Staring at the Sun -Overcoming the Dread of Death'. It's about dealing with anxiety about death and coming to terms with it.

We have in the last two years had to deal with MIL with Altzheimers going into a nursing home and dying, and my father also going into a nursing home. Both were and are being well cared for but had/have little control of their lives. I dread this happening to me. My father is 88 and I am 67 and, although I'm fit and healthy now, it has brought this to mind.

I must have a different outlook, but I would cling to every last bit of life I possibly could... The Reaper will have to drag me kicking and screaming from this world!

When it stops, there's nothing. No pain, no indignity, no struggle. But there will be no glimmer of happiness, satisfaction or pride. Even if I'm comatose, incoherent or demented, I want to live every second possible because once it stops, we can't change our minds!

If there is the slightest chance that I'll be able to hear the voices of my loved ones, understand their lives - even if only for a fleeting and confused moment - I'll take that over the Long Sleep.

I think one of my friends put it best when he said "I'm not scared of dying, I'm scared of dying in pain" I am in complete agreement with that statement. If one is sound of mind and suffering from a terminal illness or severe paralysis it should, in my opinion, be up to them to decide how to proceed.

One of the benefits (such as it is) of losing my parents young is that I never have to see them decline and be a shadow of what they were or farmed off to a care home etc. Hundreds of thousands of people are just existing, rather than living, with dementia. It's devastating for the families of those involved and bankrupting the NHS. No way will I ever put my family through that.

It's quality of life that is important, no point living a long time if you're not mentally or physically able to enjoy it. I've been considering pensions recently. I'm in the fortunate position of being on a final salary pension but considering whether to draw it when I retire or, under the new rules, take draw the lot as a bag of cash and invest it myself. Seems pointless to have a constant income until I die, when I could have more control to spend more of it in the younger years of my retirement When I'm a dribbling mess in a rocking chair at some god forsaken old folks home what's the point in having a big pension - it's of no use to me then. It's quite depressing I'm getting to the age where I am having to consider these sorts of things.

But yes, I'm all for euthanasia - it's my life and it is possible for it to be over before death takes me, and at that point then I'm happy to be converted to a pile of ashes and used to fertilise someone's veggie patch or something. I don't want the humiliation of being a dribbling mess and don't want to burden anyone with having to look after my every need and clean up my #1's and #2's.

Hundreds of thousands of people are just existing, rather than living, with dementia. It's devastating for the families of those involved

Yeah, my dad went through this recently, popped his clogs after spending a year in hospital and another two in a nursing home talking shit, in constant pain all the while. It's a thoroughly unpleasant way to check out and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Rather than planning your death, why don't you plan to live as long and as healthily as possible? I have a talisman around my neck that my wife gave me - it says best before 13.09.2098 - my 134th birthday, mind you before we got together I was planning coke, hookers and a canoe trip for my 80th

If you could know the date of your death would you want to know?

It's some morbid shit isn't it.

Mrs Jay is a District Nurse, end of life care is the bulk of her work, I get the full debrief of how people die these days every night. No two cases are the same. Lot’s of people's last few months are pretty shit, it’s a very emotive time - being clear, very, very clear about what you want to happen is a big help - some relatives are too nice. Some are utter ****s both hurt their loved ones.

Some go around ranting and raving, DEMANDING to know WHAT'S BEING DONE FOR MY MUM!!!! well the truth is, she is going to die, sooner rather than later and no amount of shouting down the phone to GPs or Hospitals is going to change that, it's not an episode of House, you won't find some gifted Doctor who makes it all go away and most people die of something, old age doesn't really kill you, it just makes you weaker and weaker until something you'd barely notice at 20 kills you, unless you have one of the dozens of things that can kill you at any age. Don’t fill people with false hope, or subject them to endless tests and procedures, it’s just cruel.

Don't be one of those poor sods who spends their last few years "in the house they've always lived in" some relatives have some dewy eyed idea that their barely with-it parent would never want to leave the house they all grew up in. Truth is, if you can't care for yourself, it's not a home, it's a prison and you'll live for the 15 mins a day when someone comes to change you and they leave all too quickly because they've got 20 visits that day, but mostly, if they were honest - they're greedy bastards who don't want their inheritance 'wasted' on residential care. If you get to live to an age when you become so weak you can't care for yourself, sell-up, move into a home, don't wait till you're really frail and let them stuff you into the first council run home they can find.

My advice? Don’t worry about “the end” climbing mountains, last drinks – sorry, it ain’t going to happen – it’s not sudden, it’s subtle, you’ll be long past climbing mountains before you’re mentally prepared to die, you won’t have a choice – when it’s time for you to die, you’ll be at the mercy of others, sorry, that’s the facts – otherwise it’s suicide.

You have a lot more control about your quality of life in old age than you might think, put that energy into giving yourself the best chance of a long healthy quality life for as long as you can – you hear smokers say “oh I could give up and spend 20 years having my arse wiped in a home” – yeah carry on sucking on 20 a day, you’ll live perfectly healthy till 70 and then die in your sleep, bollocks (PS you don’t die in your sleep, doesn’t happen).

Stay sharp, keep your mind working, Stay supple – keep moving, don’t retire to a comfy chair and nothing else – it’s not “sods law” your back gave in the day you retired – you gave up and your body followed suit. Don’t kill yourself – Heart Disease, Cancer that’s what kills people – and guess what – a lot of it is avoidable – 90% of cancers are caused by lifestyle. It’s not rocket surgery, you don’t need to drink kale and quinoa smoothies for breakfast – a balanced diet, some moderate exorcize, not smoking and not drinking too much – chances are you’ll serve most of it – what to avoid the financial drain on your loves ones? Don’t abuse your body now and it won’t abuse you in old age.

Oh and when the time comes, if you can, even if you don’t mean it, however scared you are – tell your family you’re ready to die. It’s shit, but it’s for them.

If you could know the date of your death would you want to know?

Yes. I work much more effectively with a deadline and I reckon the same would be true on the larger scale.

"I'm not scared of dying, I'm scared of dying in pain"

This was a common thought I had after suffering a stroke. It took a while to get back to being able to walk, talk and move etc but I was young and getting on with it was just something you had to do. but being the youngest in the stroke ward by a good 50 odd years and seeing how badly a stroke could affect someones quality of life really left me feeling if it happened again just let it be the big one and ensure I miss out on a life of suffering.

But maybe that's just it, maybe it is more a case of "I'm not afraid of dying, I'm afraid of living in pain"

Well said P-Jay

P-Jay adds a dose of realism into the thread, nicely written.

If you could know the date of your death would you want to know?

It would never work. Too many would go on a mad raping and killing spree just before their time was up.

They'd ruin it for everyone else.

Want to know when you're going to die?

[url= https://www.confused.com/life-insurance/life-expectancy-calculator ]Death Link[/url] (many other versions available)

Okay, it's not that - accident happen, horrible nasty disease happen, people get murdered, bad luck happens.

But, I find it an interesting tool to sort of back up what I was trying to say above - you do, for the most part, get to choose how long you'll live for and how well – its’ not this “when your numbers up, your numbers up” type deals

Accepting your own mortality, is very helping in trying to avoid it for a long as possible.

jekkyl - Member
If you could know the date of your death would you want to know?

No, there would be too much pressure to fit everything in.

Take life as a day to day enjoyment path and savour every minute that comes along, no matter the gravity of the situation or the sheer boredom you may feel, there is [b]always[/b] going to be someone wishing they were in your shoes. So wear a smile with pride, strut your stuff, love your family, hate those that double crossed you, feel sad about that girl (or bloke) that broke your heart or the heart you broke theirs.

Then pass me a pill at the end when I'm done, my decision to die stays with me.

Death Education should be a subject in school

loddrick, not so much bankrupting the NHS as randomly bankrupting a proportion of families. At one point the Tories had a surprisingly humane idea of limiting the cost to a max 30k but that seems to have got quietly dropped.

In hospital there used to be a DNR on the sheet at the bottom of the bed, they should bring that back if it's not in force now.

Too much emphasis on prolonging life, it should be quality not quantity.

Very good post, PJay. You can write the Death Education syllabus!

My cousin works for a couple of sister charities, Dignity in Dying - campaigning for assisted dying, and Compassion in Dying - supporting people to use their existing rights within the law to make advanced decisions about care.

Compassion in Dying have just launched and new campaign to educate and facilitate people to make these sorts of decisions. The family of Miles Kemp are supporting this campaign, you might see it pop up in your news feed, especially now the GoogleFaceBorg know you've been reading this thread!

Exactly the kind of story people have been discussing here: Miles was 29 when a snowboarding accident left him in a minimally-conscious state, which he remained in for 5 years. His family knew he wouldn't have wanted to be kept alive in that condition but as he has never recorded his wishes in an Advance Decision, his family were powerless to do anything. They are really passionate about letting people - especially younger people who never expect an accident to happen to them - know about the importance of thinking about what treatment and care you'd want in a similar situation and crucially recording your wishes in an Advance Decision.

Campaign site with quick link to request more information: http://www.makeityourdecision.org.uk/

http://compassionindying.org.uk/

http://www.dignityindying.org.uk/

Sincerely hope this doesn't fall foul of spam rules, I can't think of a more appropriate set of links to post on here while we're all talking about it.

Using P-Jay's Deathlink (although these type of things are bobbins, right?)

92 ... 50 years left

Not at the half way point yet... result.... reckon I can have a cheeky bacon butty tomorrow on the back of that 😀

Its a fine line between saving a life and prolonging a death, and in too many cases modern medicine and ethics makes death a long drawn out affair of misery and a complete lack of dignity. I believe if of sane mind people should be able to sign up to opt out at any given time.

I'm scared of both 1) dying and 2) dying in pain.

It's the uncertainty as to what, if anything, happens afterwards which bothers me most.

Some people respond to death by ringing the crap out of life.

Others think it just makes everything we achieve meaningless and absurd.

I have not had a near to death experience, but I had a moment in my life when I was close to ending up in intensive care. I remember feeling completely at peace. Having read up on NDEs, that seems to be a common theme.

It's the uncertainty as to what, if anything, happens afterwards which bothers me most

Same for me, I have a recurring nightmare of ceasing to exist, I guess that's one reason some people turn to religion in later life - someone nice who tells you there's more after this with a few thousand years of ‘evidence’ to back it up, why not eh?

When I was younger the thought of dying didn't bother me, I even did that horrible cliché thing of saying I’d rather cash in my chips than get old. Not any more – acceptance can help, a lot of old people who can’t do much for themselves anymore, are still pretty happy I was surprised to find. You can still get a smile out of a 96 year old who hasn’t taken a step unaided in half a decade. I intend to be like that – I won’t be mugged off in old age into being left to fend for myself.

I suppose the only upside to the whole ceasing to exist version of death is, you never find out if it’s true.

Good post pjay.
Completely agree.

I would say that if health care professionals NEED to get good at something, its getting good at recognising frailty and the dying process, And then being completely realistic at the futility of the concept of PROLOGING life and aiming at IMPROVING the short remaining life.
This will involve NOT performing tests and treatments that have no benefit. Stopping unnecessary medicines, and providing care not medicine.

Unfortunately, society (patients, carers, the press) still believe that "doing everything" is kinder than "accepting nothing can be done to save them", when in fact the opposite is true.
Furthermore, we spend a huge proportion of the NHS budget on treating people in the last year of their life. When...in fact, palliation, comfort medicines, and pain relief, are VERY cheap.

We (health) REALLY Need to get better at is whole subject.

If you want interesting reads, Google:
BGS identifying frailty
And
NICE managing multiple morbidity.

(on crashing iPad so can't link!)

The content of those two papers is KEY to helping those in advanced stages of life...

That, or Logan's run. For real.

DrP

If you could know the date of your death would you want to know?

It would make pension planning a bit easier!

That, or Logan's run. For real.

If it involves a young Jenny Agutter, I'm in....

Anyone dead yet ?

A post from beyond would be interesting, let us know what its like.. like.

Having held the hands of three people who have died in the past year, two immediate family members, and one friend, P-Jay sums it up perfectly. I don't fear death but don't want a long drawn painful one. I'm not sentimental about houses, possessions etc, and have seen the pain relieving effects of morphine in terminal illness.

As for what happens after, well Pascal had a wager. My faith is focused on what you do today not post-life assurance for after.

Some interesting points and definitely no right or wrong views frm my perspective.
One thing I'd add about DNR's. You need to make sure everyone is absolutely aware that they are in force. My mum signed a DNR (she had bowel cancer) but unfortunately had a fall and knocked herself out and her friend called the ambulance. Friend didn't know about the DNR and ambulance crew missed the big yellow envelope (categorically NOT blaming the crew!)
The ambulance crew did a fantastic job, as did the intensive care unit and basically 'saved' her by intubating her and placing her on a machine to help her breathe. It turns out that once you have a tube in, it can't be removed unless you start to breathe by yourself or die regardless of your express wishes.
Anyway fast-forward 24h and my mum did start to breathe by herself - and when she came round was spectacularly unimpressed with both me and her sister for allowing this to happen 🙂
She 'lived' for another 2 months. Bowel cancer is not a great way to go (not that any way is).

planned my exit, what do you think of the ethics/effect on other people of my decision:

cycle/walk to exposed area (if I'm not demented) enjoy my last bottle of Glendronnach, fall asleep.

Substantial sum of money left to Mountain Rescue for the recovery of my body.

Family seem happy with the arrangement, although of course they will not help me accomplish this for legal reasons.

John Beattie on Radio Scotland had a discussion on death as part of yesterdays programme. Someone came on and said almost exactly this!

Except he had made a deal with his son. He had to organise his removal from the mountain in return for being left the house, so as not to inconvenience anyone else. I don't think he was joking. 🙂

Ya gotta love it, at least there are some folks out there thinking about their demise and how THEY want to be treated pre/during/after the event.

Fabulous.

Seriously, this is heart warming.

Nicely put P-Jay, a lot of realism and sense in that post.

I remember feeling completely at peace. Having read up on NDEs, that seems to be a common theme.

I had a severe choking incident back in 2010 on a piece of chicken breast that went down the wrong way while I was working alone in the middle of nowhere. If I leant forward I could just about breathe but not enough to keep conscious for long. I carry a panic button as a matter of course with work so hit it and the operator called me on it's speaker, I just had enough breath to make some sort of sound so they knew I was in trouble and they sent an ambulance to my rough location. I remember being very calm and just staying in my bent double position as I went unconscious. Vision went black and white then slowly faded out, hearing went funny as in I only heard distinct sounds like the birds in the trees not the rumble of the train going past in the valley below. Very serene and no sense of pain or panic whatsoever. No sense of it ending, nothing. I know from the ambulance guy's report that they found me slumped on the floor not breathing at all and a very feint pulse, they listed 5 sets of 5 Heimlich manoeuvres before they threw me in the back of the ambulance, it was this throw that dislodged the chicken. A bit of mouth-to-mouth and I was breathing again. Apparently I came back, looked at the guy bent over me and said 'Oh.' then went to sleep!!

My plans and decision about my end was made before this happened but it did cement it in my mind that I was doing the right thing. Death is not to be feared, it will consume you regardless. Embrace it's inevitability and you can get on with life.

Today, I reviewed the music I'd chosen for a funeral. Not out of morbidity - just want to plan as much as I can, as when the time comes I want things to be easier for my family. Seeing as I want my funeral to be short anecdotes interspersed with secular music - the music is important.

I used to be worried about death. Now, not so much. Having spent a lot of time with my dad in his final days - I learnt a lot about facing the end with dignity and peace. Also, more strangely having sat with a pet as they died - it seemed to become a more normal part of life, a natural process.

Finally, in one of those times where wisdom comes from a strange place - in Star Trek, Spock once said "How we face death is at least as important as how we face life." Good advice IMHO.

Listen to Bert for he is wise and speaks the truth..
Few of you here with good intentions will be so hardy when the time comes..

I learnt when my mum was dying of cancer a few years ago that for all of us the big decisions in life are largely taken care of. In her final days I was more concerned about making sure that the little things; her favourite music, news about her friends and family etc were taken care of. Death comes to us all, try and be comfortable and content when it arrives.

Thank you P-Jay for the "

It's some morbid shit isn't it

It's weird, innit - I still don't think I've fully accepted that one day I'll be dead, even though intellectually I fully recognise that I'm only kidding myself to think otherwise. Don't know if I particularly fear death itself - either we go on, which is ace, or we don't and I'll know nowt about it - but I fear whatever discomfort and pain I have before I shuffle off, and the distress I put my nearest through before I'm done dying. Breaks my heart to think of others - Mrs Pondo, my brother, family and friends - checking out before me, but for sure that'll happen if I live long enough. Sometimes seems like it's all a bit of a shitty joke where the punchline is terminally screeed up - might as well make the most while we're here, hey? 🙂

This thread reminded me of Billy Connolly's quote in 'What We Did On Our Holiday'. He's terminally ill and explaining his imminent death to a child:

I used to tickle him and he'd go, "No, no, no!" Then when I was finished, he'd go, "More, more, more, more!" Which sums up exactly how I feel about living.

I used to be on here a long time ago, but tend to lurk now.

I found that, after discovering I had a terminal prognosis, spend time on the Internet arguing about bike parts was a bit daft.

I am at peace with myself now. The grey areas are now black or white. My role is to make sure my actions are based on maintaining the dignity of others, retaining integrity in my decision making, and guiding those facing the same situation as my family and I. Being frightened is nothing to be ashamed of; it's what we do [i]when[/i] we are frightened that counts...

Having said all of this, I made a promise to my children that I would fight until breath became air, so I intend to honour that too.

Just come home after another night shift as a paramedic, and am heartened to be reading this over my cereal, prior to swan diving into bed. This is a conversation we have all too often in the cab between jobs, and a common sentiment is that as a society we just don't talk enough about death. Yet it sneaks up on all of us. It's as much of a life event biggie as being born all those years ago. Death makes life the mad, colourful, beautiful, heart-breaking adventure it is. So, bravo for this thread!

Some immensely readable, life-affirming even, reads on the subject include:

"Get Dead", by Jamie Oliver (not the chef) - a little coffee table book you'll return to over and over again

"Being Mortal", by Atul Gawande - a passionate plea to the medical and allied care professions to begin considering and prioritising quality of life over simply prolonging it at all costs

Both my copies are tatty from being lent to countless friends and colleagues over the years, and do well in bringing death out of the shadows and into the light where it truly belongs. They're not morbid - far from it. They'll make you think and laugh out loud.

Right, that's my sleep-deprived two pence-worth. There are some good insights on here. Keep them going. And whatever you do, please, please, PLEASE removed that red-bordered DNACPR form from its envelope, and leave it in plain view for your bleary-eyed ambulance crew to find prior to having to commence a brutal and undignified resuscitation attempt at 03:27am.

Have a great day. Night night!

I found that, after discovering I had a terminal prognosis, spend time on the Internet arguing about bike parts was a bit daft.

Very sorry to hear that.

Take care,

Jay

Having said all of this, I made a promise to my children that I would fight until breath became air, so I intend to honour that too.

This I can totally respect. And admire. #****cancer.

Bit of a thread resurrection I know but having just caught up on a few of the cancer threads, not the snappiest phrase, I'm feeling nothing but respect for those fighting it and quite humbled on many fronts.
I wasn't up to date on your status Mark (bullheart), and this applies to Juan and others, but I wish you ALL THE BEST wherever you all are on the journey. I've lost family, friends and colleagues to cancer but others have beaten it and/or survived many years so I live in hope that science saves more every day.
You are all utterly inspirational and in Mark's case you are also equally as mental :). Thank you for sharing your fight and your unbelievable spirit, great examples to us all of why we should be grateful for the good times and how to behave in the tough times.

don't think PJ's "moderate exorcize" is necessary!

for serious planning join exit international or read "the peaceful pill handbook" i have some vids as well that members kindly allowed to be taken when they had their last drink of a carefully researched concotion.. Not scary at all ..they all seemed at peace.
No i'm not weird either ..death should be more out in the open not hidden away in the closet.I'd be happy to be burnt on a bonfire like they do in India .certainly don't want anyone profiting from my passing.cheap and as simple a funeral as possible. i think the gov't should provide a service for all citizens who wish to be "disposed of" without great expense and fuss.