[Closed] Demo days - feedback on idea pls...

I kinda like the idea, but I think there is a flaw:

If I was doing a full demo weekend (with a genuine intent to get a new bike), I'd want to be able to test a number of bikes - meaning from different brands. Which obviously isn't going to work for you.

Thats exactly the issue I guess - I do know though from experience that some people will take our demo bikes away with them etc, I'm just wondering if the opposite (come to the bikes) is also true. I'm guessing those people aren't testing 20 bikes over a 20 weekend period so other factors obviously are in play.

TBH I always feel a bit bad doing 1 hr demos, we kind of have to but its not long enough to understand properly the bike, or set it up right etc. and you never quite get the feel for it you might as the tyres might be not quite right, the suspension probably needs a tweak etc. I would rather invest time in getting it right for a smaller number of people, like sending them out with base settings and 2 Shockwiz's, getting the bikes back in the evening, downloading the data and making some tweaks for day 2. That to me is proper demoing - it just needs a big investment in time for us and on behalf of the customer too. So its whether it would be worth it to get it set up.

Ben - I actually think that you'd be offering too much for the vast majority of potential buyers. As you say it'd be a huge investment for you guys. And 'other factors' are real - many buy a bike based on looks or brand or a magazine review. It's possible that offering custom paint colours or decals would generate more sales than bespoke demos. Probably not what you want to hear but....

Also, my experience is that I get a feel for liking / disliking a bike very quickly. The right bike just feels, well, right. Of course others may vary.

I think it's an nice idea - many people I speak to already have the bike they want to buy in their head and the test ride is just to confirm their choice / make sure nothing serious is wrong with the geom etc - can be quite hard to do on the average car park / 1hr test offered by most bike shops.

If you combined a test ride with a guided tour / uplift on awesome trails in your area and some bike skills thrown into the mix it would be good value / win-win, even if they don't take the bike.

If you have time to properly advise on sizing, swap out, set up / adjust components on the fly even better. So many of the test bikes I took out had suspension not pumped to correct psi, badly set up brakes, saddle at wrong angle, plastic pedals etc. A lot of non mechanically minded riders will put the resulting feel down to bike rather than setup. Get this right and im sure the conversion to sale over standard demo could be good. High end road bike shops seem to do this better than MTB shops for some reason.

As above, a demo and some guided rides would be a great idea. Get the best out of the bike. But it depends on how much time and effort you could give the idea?

From my experience, a bike that is not quite right can be transformed with changes to various components:
Wheels and tyres
Bars and Grips
Stem
Saddle
to name but a few.

Not things accommodated easily on a normal type of demo day. What you'd be able to do is show prospective buyers how the bike can be moulded to their needs, desires, whims and strange fantasies.

I think that would work very well for people who have narrowed it down to the brand of bike(s) that are on offer. It sounds like a very nice setup for a proper test of machines.
I suspect the headache will be having the bike(s) there that people want to test, it gives a chance to really test the machine but if you are at the start of a decision making process then the choice may be too narrow, once down to the machine it might be too late as they have already decided upon it...
I really like the idea, but the detail needs more thought to make sure it worked for rider and business.

Like the idea and agree with various comments above. Not too sure how much money it would make for the input. Is it to sell bikes or have a small holiday rental on the go. Rental would be what, for simple maths say, £500 a weekend for say 20 weekends a what, say 40 if you do mid week as well. This gives an income of £10,000 to £20,000 and maybe 40 bike sales, if every rental gave a sale, before any out goings...so depends how many bikes it would help shift, how much the income would help and do you have the time for it. If the cottage takes 2 people chances are it is one potential buyer and a mate. Thats a big investment of time from you guys into 1 buyer. You may end up not selling any bikes and have some people wanting to bring their own birds for a weekend of riding and free tuning. Personally I would stick to the bikes (for which you already have a good reputation for your service)and let others do the 'holidays'. Might be worth keeping the idea for the press guys or something where you would get the return on your time.

To me it sounds more suitable for someone who's already (almost) decided which bike they want to buy and now wants to get it set up perfectly. Brilliant for a customisable product like yours. I can also see the advantages for people (like me) on the cusp of two sizes, so they could find out which frame suits them best over an extended test.

If I was the customer in this scenario, I'd probably want to bring my existing bike to compare (assuming it was a similar type e.g. trail or enduro), which is not something that usually happens on a standard demo day.
Also, not having to wait around for someone to bring back the bike that you want to test would proabably be the biggest plus point of what you're suggesting, compared to other demo days I've been on.

It might be more interesting to offer this as a service for people who already bought a new bird/frame. Charge a small fee for them to come over and ride in the weekend to finalize the last components and set up the bike correctly. maybe a 40 mm stem instead of the 32. A token extra in the fork etc. People coming over, get the bike all set up and then take it home with them sounds like something I could be interested in.

Obviously, you'll know where your customers come from, but personally I'm not sure I'd be interested in driving to the NE to pick up a bike before having to head somewhere else to demo it for a weekend.

Ben - yes - one of the main problems with your current/proposed setup is not being able to ride direct from the door. If you were based in the forest you could give the customers a much better demo by sending them off on a loop, return for feedback (the Shockwiz is a great idea) then send them back out on the same loop with a "tuned" bike.

Then that got me thinking wouldn't it be great to be able to refurbish a currently derelict building based at the centre of the trails in Hamsterley as a new "bike centre" I think you'll know what I'm referring to).This would have the added benefit of separating most of the MTB visitors from the families/dog walkers at the existing centre and should have the support of the FC in reducing "conflicts" with other users. You'd also be able to use the centre to support building and maintenance of the trails.

Then I woke up.............

I doubt you'd get sufficient customers to make it viable as a going concern. But if the accommodation was available anyway and people came on the odd weekend...

I know you said ignore the bike brand, but are your customers quite price conscious?

It might be more interesting to offer this as a service for people who already bought a new bird/frame. Charge a small fee for them to come over and ride in the weekend to finalize the last components and set up the bike correctly. maybe a 40 mm stem instead of the 32. A token extra in the fork etc. People coming over, get the bike all set up and then take it home with them sounds like something I could be interested in.

Yep, this - offer it as an extra service to buyers, that kind of suspension tuning and setup you can't get from the typical bike shop and certainly not if you buy a YT or Canyon off the internet.

I think the Cotic model for demos is a good one for a smaller brand - have a guy in a van with demo bikes drive around to where the riders are.

It might be more interesting to offer this as a service for people who already bought a new bird/frame. Charge a small fee for them to come over and ride in the weekend to finalize the last components and set up the bike correctly. maybe a 40 mm stem instead of the 32. A token extra in the fork etc. People coming over, get the bike all set up and then take it home with them sounds like something I could be interested in.

I suspect that as a demo system it might not lead to much of an increase in sales. I would imagine that most people who were interested enough to pay for the weekend would already be a buyer without the weekend. Also, it's worth keeping in mind that the weekend could potentially lose you sales. In the situation that there was a problem / mixup with accommodation, food, cost etc (which eventually there inevitably will be) there is a risk that the customer will associate that bad experience with the brand and be put off.

Echoing many points made above (I was there yesterday!)

1. Demo days work best when you can compare and contrast a few models. 2-3 is the optimum ime, with 60-90 mins on each of solid riding. So taking one bike for a full weekend is a bit much and I can;t see people who are deciding between Orange, Whyte, Airdrop & Bird etc paying to demo a Bird for a full weekend.
2. Your proposal could be a (payable) option at purchase maybe - someone buying a bike could pay to collect it from your northern base (thereby saving postage..) and you spend half a day with them making sure it's setup perfectly and explaining all the bells and whistles on the suspension etc
3. As mentioned yesterday, short loops work well, as they allow the rider to compare bikes on familiar trails. Stainburn is a great demo location for this reason.... ;-p
4. Demo days work best when all the rider/customer has to do is turn up and ride. You need either a signposted trail or a guided ride from the collection point I think.

Ps - still trying to decide between 145 and 120 -)

Sounds awesome, but I'd be wary of what practical implications would be for essentially offering a B&B... Insurance, Tax etc.

Maybe people who have bought a bike get a B&B nearby and spend a weekend getting their bike dialed in for a reasonable fee?

To echo some of the comments above, it would be a great idea if the customer had pretty much decided which bike they were going to buy and were looking to get their perfect setup.

Testing a range of the available components, particularly forks/shocks, would be great but obviously from a practical point of view this might be quite time consuming to change over.

As someone who is hopeless at setting up suspension correctly, the idea above about existing customers using it as a service to perfect setup is something which would appeal to me.

And having visitied your place this week for a demo it's a lovely location. I'm sure there's plenty of riding from your door and it'll be even better when you get your pump track built 😉

The personal tuning service is a great idea, but more post purchase than demo imho. As a demo it may suit a small subset of customers set on a Bird but unsure of 120/145 or between sizes for example. Also would people treat it as a weekend biking break with hire bikes thrown in?

As mentioned above the Cotic model is good. Enabled me to demo 3 different bikes (Flare, Rocket, RocketMax) back to back on my own local trails that I know well and have ridden on all my own bikes, so really good to get a comparison. Each ride was only 1-1.5hrs, but just about enough to get a feel given the short loop that packed in enough trail variation.

The other demo I did was Bird at FOD. Again it was good to demo the bike on trails I know. This demo was a bit longer at 4 hrs and I felt this was about right, for me anyway. Others who are possibly more picky or sensitive to bike setup might want longer. The location worked well as could try the bike on everything from blue (to see if it felt over biked) up to DH trails. The only drawback was I felt the setup offered was a bit limited, possibly due to the time constraints of managing all the hire bike customers too.

I noticed at Cwncarn you were offering 1hr demo's. Which given the location I felt were a bit short. It takes me an hr to get to the top 😳

I think the Cotic model for demos is a good one for a smaller brand - have a guy in a van with demo bikes drive around to where the riders are.

+1, Orange do something similar so you can get 2x 45-60min loops on two bikes in an evening's club ride. Which was great as it meant I didn't need to spend a day of the weekend driving to a trail center I'd not otherwise have gone too to do what is usually a fairly short ride.

Completely put me off an ST4 mind you.

I can see the appeal of a day spent tuning etc, but TBH after you've ridden a few bikes you get an idea of what's wrong with them and how to change it (stem, tyres, etc). Likewise suspension tuning, I know 95% of bikes will be under sprung and / or damped for me, so I can ignore that because I know the first thing I'll be doing is sending the shock to Mojo or wherever. The exception might be something like a CCDB which isn't custom tuned, just adjusted, in which case I could have googled for settings online if it was a bike I was serious about (and it would be nice if the correct spring was fitted). Maybe if all bikes had CC air shocks? Or have air shocks to hand with with tunes for 60/80/100kg riders so people can get at least an approximately right tune.

I tried a wetsuit in the pool earlier. The manufacturer turned up with their whole range. It was useful but hasn't increased the chances of me buying one - I swam long enough to realise that the suit has the same problems as every other tri-wetsuit I've ever used.

When I had a bike business I don't think a demo ever changed a "maybe" into a sale. People had made up their mind before the demo.

I disagree, I think demos are definitely catching on again now and riders are doing them with an open mind.

I've personally had my mind changed. I'm quite likely to end up with one of the bikes that I picked to fill a gap in the demo schedule.

Sounds like a great idea to me - but as others have said I'm not sure it would translate to increased sales.
I'd also agree with the appetite for a "set-up/tuning" weekend post purchase. It wont be for everyone, but I think many buyers will be interested.
Combine that with people who indeed are serious about demo'ing a bike for the whole weekend and maybe there it would be worthwhile doing?

I think you are looking at it turning into running a weekend guiding and B&B company though - is that what you want to do? If so, go for it.

Si

Thanks guys - interesting feedback. I'm certainly not wanting to run a B&B business (hell no), and I don't have the time for non-bird-bike-selling-activities anyway, but there's already a lovely guest house on site, so all I would have to do is marry their availability to mine, and then its looking for the best way to leverage what's there - I have 1500sqft of 'workshop' (Currently sort of a pool house - won't stay like that for long - its a long story), parking for 10 cars or so & 14 acres of hillside mixed woods and open land (for trails and jump track) etc. Im going to convert the pool house anyway, and Im going to allow people to demo from it when it suits, and Im going to build trails in my back garden - those are a given anyway.

I can't be there all the time due to my needing to be at Bird HQ, so its looking at ways to best use the time I am there to deliver the best possible customer experience. Things like customisation on specs, loaning out shockwiz's etc. all go some way to getting the best possible bike for any given customer, but ultimately you can't beat (in my mind anyway) having someone on hand who really knows the product inside out - not just sells the product, but [i]really[/i] knows it like my example below - to advise you and even better set it up for you, and its not really possible to do that in advance of a customer getting there, nor can you do it when you've got 20 demos going out that day - it needs to be on a limited, more dedicated basis. We spent a whole lot of time advising people on what to get and that effort really does pay dividends I think. The benefit of the 2 day idea means that the tweaks and tuning can be done outside of normal hours, as during normal hours you'd have no realistic chance of doing these things if you're also trying to get bums on saddles at the same time. By spreading it out you're giving yourself and a customer the time, without the limitation of the customer needing to be somewhere else, the chance to recap their thoughts, download and analyse the data, make some changes, shoot the breeze and have a beer. There's nothing I like more than talking bikes over a beer, so it would hardly be a great hardship in that regard!

That of course would be a big step further than anyone offers right now, but its something I get the value from each year when I attend 'SRAM camp'. I basically get a dedicated shock engineer (one who really knows the product) who will take my feedback on what I like and don't like, and then tune shocks for me while I have a coffee, before blasting out the same trails again on a different tune, all while answering all my dumb questions too. While its no replacement for long term testing, I would say I get more from that 2 day trip than any time else in the year in terms of advancing our product knowledge and product design, and thats something I do actually think customer's would benefit from too in a different way. Sure I am not going to re-shim your shock while you wait, but then we're looking at a much broader range of aspects of the bike, so that would be only one part.

Realistically it doesn't really need to 'make' money per-se, it just needs to work, not [i]cost[/i] me money in the long term (time is not a factor here really I'm going to be on site and working anyway, only capital investment) and be reasonably popular in order to justify the effort in getting it set up. The best sales people we have are our customers, and getting even happier customers therefore makes a lot of sense in the long term for the business....

We'll see where this one goes I guess! Thanks again for the input.

@chemicalali yes that's living in an alternate universe I reckon. I did try and persuade the other half to buy that 1/3 of the grove that was (maybe still is) up for sale but apparently being miles from anywhere with terrible phone and internet and no hope of escaping when it snowed was a put off. Who knew? We're only 25mins from Hammers and it's a great drive, combined with another plan I already have in motion for Hamsterley I think the distance isn't that much of an issue. It's also definitely a case of time available. Although being there seems like the option, it's the time that the overnight affords me that makes it work (well maybe) I think.

@smashit that's a great idea. Could work for me and my neighbours who own the Hemel assuming my dates and their unnocuopied dates collied. Many thanks, cheques in the post 😉

@simon_g the FC are beginning to clamp down on this I hear, so it's becoming less financially viable as a way to do it.

@lucky7500 that's good points, thanks. Although I know the neighbours well and they are reliable so a risk not insurmountable I think.

@ricb they are all good, and thanks for coming over 😉 you're one of the many from the last week making me think harder about how to make this work well for us and the customer.

@edukator our business is built on demos. We do them all year and have a very high hit rate. I know a lot of people who come to us have more than one bike in mind, not to say they aren't looking for validation of a preheld belief, but without demos we'd be a much smaller business I'm certain.

On a general point I don't really like 1 hour demos either, wherever it might be. We're expanding our 'static' demo fleet as quick as we can with 2 new demo sites going live this month STC allowing for full day demos closer to where you might be. Obviously this involves third parties so the upfront is higher but still refundable on purchase, and I'm after 2 more sites at the moment too, trying to get the travel time under 2 hours for all but the most remotely located. But I do kind of think that extra level of demo has some appeal, but I do agree with the sentiment most prevelant here that it's as, if not more valuable post purchase. Thanks!

Nope, no interest here, but i only have ridden 1 of my previous 10 bikes before buying. Only 1 of them purchases did i not actually get on well with.