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With the given that there are more than a few defender owners on here, would any of you have an opinion on buying a brand spanking new defender 110 over one 5-10 years old, and spending a few grand bringing it up to date?
Although it would be mine(sort of) work would be paying.
Any opinions will be much appreciated.
Id pay to get one on a galv chassis + any other galv you can pay to have done.
If you dont plan on owning it for ever though, and someone else is paying, then get a nice shiny new one. And get rid of it 3 yrs later 🙂
In my opinion the older 300 TDI is the best engine to go for, less refined than the newer stuff but infinitely more reliable due to the complete lack of electronics and can be tweaked to give a healthy dose more power for not a lot of cash. This means you'd be looking at Defenders from about 1995 to 1999, if you are lucky enough to find one that's been rebuilt on a galvanised chassis it's well worth the premium.
TD5 engine, while still being a fairly solid reliable unit doesn't have the cockroach quality of the 300, though it is hugely tuneable I've seen plenty of examples running 200 bhp and silly amounts of torque with no real negative effects.
Wouldnt thank anyone for a puma engined one
I went shopping with a 10grand budget for a new one. Looked at a few and quickly came to te conclusion they dont make em like they used to
So im rebuilding my old one and throwing in a 200tdi
If you're properly committed, the above advice for older engines and galv. is the one.
If not, probably best off with a new one for far advanced heating.
Heating?
Who gives a crap about heating in a Defender
You'll be wanting Hope to bring out integrated air con headsets next
Exactly jontykint if you really want one, you couldn't give a damn about heating. But if it is just a whim, you'll really miss it, especially with all the draughts.
Latest Defenders come with SCS/ESP - stability control doings....
Not my thing but has been added to the latest Defenders and I know some will want this safety feature 8)
spending a few grand bringing it up to date
You do realise they've been out of date for decades, don't you?
Jokes aside, in what way would you want / need to bring it up to date? They've not really changed for the last 31ish years (expecting new engines/gearboxes/instrument panels). Many people in enthusiast circles will tell you that the best example money can buy is an early-mid nineties one rebuilt with a galv chassis and bulkhead (or an earlier one fitted with a 200/300tdi).
31 years .... Orly ...why are modern post td5 models much smaller inside then and look alot more like a focus than a landy? Not changed at all though apparently.
i had the same decision
buy one a few years old, or get a new one
I got a new one
love the puma engine, (its now the 2.2) lower road tax
110 xs utility, VAT reclaimable through business
I have done 50000 miles in a 2.2 transit with 6 speed box, and love this engine
its great in both vehicles (although much faster in the transit)
I found I was looking at used ones, often with 60-80k miles on , often hard working miles, so thought it best to get a new one, so you know where its been
15,000 miles in, been excellent, heated seats, air con, motorway cruising in 6th is so good, infact anything over 40 you are in 6th, lots of tourque
look alot more like a focus than a landy?
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Can't see it, myself.
The TDCI ones have a different bulkhead design (you'll notice, for example, that they no longer have the vents beneath the windscreen) to accommodate the newer dashboard, but underneath it's all pretty similar to any Ninety/One-Ten/Defender released since 1983.
Very funny.
My td5 110 has been rather love - hate
It's taken a few years to work through the mechanical issues( injector seal fuel pump ecu dual mass fly wheel ) and some odd wiring problems
And now runs just nicely but does seem to have more rust than I'd like so guess that's next
I've not had a tdci but this is not my first land rover but is the newest and worst build
Next time it will be an older gav chassis tdi or a tdi powered series
Not much updating to be done on any pre tdci defenders unless you want traction and abs etc
I am being flippant, of course. But my question to the OP remains; what do you hope to gain by 'updating' a 5-year-old one?
Low mileage isn't necessarily a good thing with second hand Land Rovers, the less miles, the less tarmac they've probably seen. Well, based on our work vehicle and a friends quarry fleet. Low miles, but used as intended and some more.
I currently own a 1995 defender. Ive only had it 8 months or so. Always wanted one and(i think) it was a steal. The company i work for has a few vans. The defender being a commercial vehicle is good for the accounts. I was genuinely looking for info as to whether a 5-10 year old defender with some money thrown at it was a better choice than buying a shiny one.
Im the guy that pays proper men to fix my cars. I dont know the fine details RE:defender theory.
I've always wanted a 90. Couldn't see the point in spending £9k on an N reg or other 300tdi one so 'risked it' and bought a td5. All its needed is an injector loom which was dead simple.
I too thought of buying a new one but couldn't stretch.
Having used most incarnations at work over the years, the 2.2 puma ones are the most civilised but don't sound right 😀
The td5 is definitely the best noise but that's counteracted by ear-bleeding above 55mph.
What I love best about all of them though is that even a trip to the corner shop is an adventure. In other cars, it's about where you are going but in the Landy, getting there is often more fun 😀
I've had a 200, 300s and TD5s for work purposes. The TD5s have been chipped and pull like trains (I tow a big/heavy trailer on a regular basis). I prefer the TD5s purely because of the extra grunt. I have always kept up with the service intervals at a good quality independent garbage that specialises in just Land Rovers and I've had few problems.
If you're doing the servicing yourself then I guess a 300TDi for the ease and lots of pimp potential for your money could be an option, but is you're not paying for the servicing then I'd go for a TD5. I have no experience of the newer Transit engined Defenders, but reports aren't great.
I have to ask - why are you buying a Defender? I have now moved on to Discoveries (because I no longer need the extra 5 seats) and they do the same job on and off road (for all but 1% of circumstances) and I would never go back.
What I love best about all of them though is that even a trip to the corner shop is an adventure. In other cars, it's about where you are going but in the Landy, getting there is often more fun
+1
RE the original question, personally I'd go for an earlier one (90/110 or Tdi-era). Build quality is noticeably worse on newer models, though I'm basing that on my own which range from 18 to 50something years old - no first hand experience of TD5/TDCi stuff. I've seen some that are only a couple of years old trundling about with shockingly rusty chassis and corroded panels though.
I wouldn't necessarily modernise (to me at least, the beauty of the older ones is the simplicity). I would put some money aside for a new chassis in years to come though. Once the chassis and bulkhead are sorted, everything else can be kept in good fettle without too much hassle.
Make sure you know what you're signing up for - they are a bit more work than a normal car, you need to be keeping a close ear and eye on how they are running and keep them well serviced. I know I'm not the only person in this thread currently working on a rebuild, most people don't really 'get' it, but if you do they're ace!
Oh, and buy one soon, once production stops (this month I think) I suspect prices will be on the rise.
Agree with all kenneth said ...i dont believe the newer chassis are of nearly the quality of steel of the old ones.... Given my chassis is 27yeara old and survived till now on original bits, yet there are td5s my colleagues have that have needed outriggers and xmembers for mots.....these are road going vehicles !! Its a joke.
"Im the guy that pays proper men to fix my cars. I dont know the fine details RE:defender theory."
For me this would be the crux, if your paying a man an old one will become expensive fast and bodged up.....the previous owner of mine - paid a man, he got the cheapest work done for the top price it seems when i look at the reciepts and the standard of work....
How ever people can change my ninety was the car that atopped me paying the man as it showed me how simple cars are - just like a bike only bigger 🙂
I have a friend who is a life long Landrover ist
I asked him about the end of the 110. He said it died with the the Transit engine so it's no loss.
seems a big TD5 fan at the moment. He has on in a 90
But if work are paying so you can do huge road miles with no need for 4 wheel drive I think that a 110 or 90 is a mistake
remember when the 300 tdi came out, everyone moaned
remember when the td5 came out everyone moaned, bmw engine etc etc
now the tdci engine, everyone moans, but most people who moan about it haven't driven one.
I know it can lack power compared to td5, but it does not lack torque, now its been around a while there are some good tuning options which make it even better
build quality and more importantly reliability/drivability are better now than they have ever been
funny how the td5 fans think theirs are great (once they have fitted new injector looms)
there are not many probs at all with the tdci, and its proven itself in high mileage transits for years, how many builders run their new vans in? they are loaded to the wiehgt limits from day one and put to work ! Same as a defender should be 
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I appreciate all the info and opinions chaps. It/she will only be doing around 20,000 miles a year. Very light but awkward sized loads. We have a couple of merc vitos and a vw t5 in the company. I just really want one and its been, pretty much, agreed hence the original question.
Again, thank you all.
It/she will only be doing around 20,000 miles a year
Couldn't you have a landrover as your run about and have something comfier and more fuel efficient for the miles
Which part of the td5 is a bmw engine out of curiousity ?
I think the td5 engines great.
Gear box is the weak part on the puma engine defenders fyi so keep an eye on it, . , a well worked 110 is going to stress it more. obviously yours is new and will be under warrenty.
It's a common misconception that the TD5 is a BMW engine. It's a Rover engine but was on the brink of being finished when BMW bought Rover so it started being fitted into vehicles at the same time, leading people to believe BMW brought it to the table.
I believe the 2.5 DT engine fitted in P38 Range Rovers was a BMW unit which further confuses people. The TD5 was only fitted to Discoverys and Defenders.
Mmm the 2.4 dt was almost as universally shit as the 19j under a tarp on my drive.
Dropped liner anyone 🙂
Td5 code name storm project , the td5 was the only engine from storm to be commercially released due to the bmw take over.
Large awkward loads? 130 or 110 hi-cap then. Back door is much the same size as the drivers door on the hard tops.
If you're over 5'8" in a 110 hi-cap you'll want some old seat swabs, worth at least 2" of legroom with the crushed old fillings.
One big thing no-one has mentioned is seating arrangements.
Older ones may have three seats in front, middle one pretty rubbish with a lap belt.
Pre puma rear seats don't have high back and middle seat is lap belt, puma have three seats with three point belts
Load space seats, my 2000 csw had benches for six, newer ones option of two front facing
crosshair - MemberWhat I love best about all of them though is that even a trip to the corner shop is an adventure.
Because you might fall through a hole in the floor.
Out of curiosity, what was it they changed so much about the tdci that makes it so unpopular in the landy? it's nothing spectacular in the mondeo but basically solid, but IIRC there's some changes between that and the van engine
Where does your right hand elbow go ina puma cab my mates doors about twice as thick as the ones on my ninety. When i borrow it i have to keep the window down no question, at least in my ninety i can keep the window up if i desire, although comfier with it down.
2.4tdci or 2.2tdci?
Got the 2.4 in a 130 and the 2.2 in a 110 I occasionally borrow, prefer the 130, but it is my vehicle and spend more time in it. Like 6th gear and heating that works, but not so sure it has the low down pull of previous Td5 and 300Tdi. Got to rev harder to use the turbo, which is a bit against the grain for someone used to agricultural diesels.
The 2.2 do have a tendency to hole their intercooler pipes, some do, some don't, but when they do is fixed by adding a bracket that Land Rover Assist tend to have in their vehicles along with new intercooler hose.