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I have used the offcuts and failed attempts from my schools woodwork dept for kindling since forever. Should I have been declaring this? Asking as a new depute has suggested I need to.
It probably counts as a benefit to you (although how you would value it for tax purposes I can;t imagine) but if the school would otherwise have to pay to dispose of it you're doing them a favour so not sure why they'd pursue it.
Sounds like you're helping with recycling to me
Depends on the value you've gained. There's probably a policy on it either from the school or the local LEA*
Probably nothing wrong with doing what you're doing, but worth making sure it's actually ok
*assuming your school is within the LEA
Sounds like you're helping with recycling to me
If you are then you're handling waste and you're into a whole other world of waste legisaltion
i wooden worry about it.
is there a suggestion that during your work you are abusing your position to increase the size/volume of these offcuts and failures
Does the new deputy head have a wood burner by any chance?
Of course technically it’s trade waste and so you (the school) probably need a waste transfer certificate also!
is there a suggestion that during your work you are abusing your position to increase the size/volume of these offcuts and failures
to class: "right everybody, aprons on and gather round.. this morning, we're taking a look at popular domestic fire starting materials"
class: *goans "we did this last week sir.."
*band saw starts.
soobalias - Memberis there a suggestion that during your work you are abusing your position to increase the size/volume of these offcuts and failures
Posted 14 minutes ago # Report-Post
I wish YOU were the depute! I am alas; a history teacher, so am in no position to get extra prepared for a cold spell.
[i]I am alas; a history teacher[/i]
You should be burning books then!
This is the sort of thing that only becomes a problem if somebody wants it to.
Who have you upset?
Sounds very much like your new deputy is a pedantic, joyless jobsworth!
This whole thing is another classic example of the few spoiling it for the many. Highly paid people who didn't want to pay tax or a higher rate of tax taking 'payment in kind' of valuable items to a high value has basically taken all goodwill and niceness out of things like patients thanking their doctors or whatever.
If your pencil-pushing deputy (who, by the way, really should have more important stuff to worry about) goes on about it, suggest that the kindling needs to be raffled off to all employees along with all similar 'benefits'. And that he/she is so keen, that they can organise that raffle.
I am alas; a history teacher
You've got bigger problems, mate - what if the government find you're teaching European politics in an 'unpatriotic manner'?
Sounds very much like your new deputy is a pedantic, joyless jobsworth!This whole thing is another classic example of the few spoiling it for the many. Highly paid people who didn't want to pay tax or a higher rate of tax taking 'payment in kind' of valuable items to a high value has basically taken all goodwill and niceness out of things like patients thanking their doctors or whatever.
If your pencil-pushing deputy (who, by the way, really should have more important stuff to worry about) goes on about it, suggest that the kindling needs to be raffled off to all employees along with all similar 'benefits'. And that he/she is so keen, that they can organise that raffle.
Or they've come in to the new job, seen that the OP is doing something that could potentially get them into trouble and has given them a nudge to do things by the book so no trouble comes in anyones direction.
Or they've come in to the new job, seen that the OP is doing something that could potentially get them into trouble and has given them a nudge to do things by the book so no trouble comes in anyones direction.
Or, he's fancies a bit of the same pie!
FWIW, from a quick google of kindling prices, I think you'd need to be taking 15-20 sacks of kindling a year to make it declarable.
Should I have been declaring this?
To whom?
[i] Should I have been declaring this?
To whom? [/i]
Ling will be along in a minute to explain what the £500+vat charge is for.
dannyh - MemberYou've got bigger problems, mate - what if the government find you're teaching European politics in an 'unpatriotic manner'?
That's a given. It is dead simple, I won't take the 3 bin bags a year I got anymore. When the new depute askes me to rep the school at an authority wide twilight conference...I will be too busy chopping wood that night 😀
Ling will be along in a minute to explain what the £500+vat charge is for.
The charge only applies if the kindling is being utilised by his brother/friend, surely?
It's not for your brother/friend, is it?
Could you not take some tools from the woodwork department and pay a visit to his office to discuss it...
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FWIW, from a quick google of kindling prices, I think you'd need to be taking 15-20 sacks of kindling a year to make it declarable.
Offcuts are much cheaper, our local builders merchant sells bags of offcuts for £1.50, for which you get a 50 litre bag stuffed...
Just point your deputy to the trivial benefit page. Job done. Can't really blame him for asking the question.
As above point him towards the trivial benefits page, and maybe remind him that as OFSTED only need to give you a days notice these days, that maybe he should have bigger things to worry about?
I am alas; a history teacher
It's just one thing after another with you...
Sounds like you're helping with recycling to me
Same here, and anyone with half a brain and a bit of common sense would think the same but unfortunately there are people out there who like to turn trivial things into a massive issue 😕
This thread reminds me of the guys that work in the local recycling plants, they all drive either vans or old 4x4 pick ups creaming the electrics or bikes etc to stash in the back then sell on
When you arrive they head over to help or just nose and if nothing of value disappear back to their Sun name game quiz
Just carry on and don't let him know. Once he has settled in he will have other things filling his time. If he does keep on then assign a nominal sum, justified by finding a price for say scrap wood from a sawmill priced by the tonne. It will probably be valued at £10 over the year and hence not be worth it.
^^^must be the academy thing I don't recall the school drop off being a bit like going to the tip - do teachers really hang around poking in people's car boots looking for "kindling" or other saleable items?
IANAL but they sound like a pain in the arse. TheBrick seems to have a good idea.
At our last school, we had a rule where gifts from parents over £x had to be declared. The head's response was invariably "I'm sure it's a fake." Sounds like a more sensible approach to me.
Or they've come in to the new job, seen that the OP is doing something that could potentially get them into trouble and has given them a nudge to do things by the book so no trouble comes in anyones direction.
In trouble with................?
Only if you don't know the rules around trivial, non-contractual, non-monetary, irregular benefits - which it sounds like the new employee doesn't, so that pretty much makes them a nose-poker-inner.
Hopefully the new person will quickly find something worthwhile being pedantic about or it sounds like you're in for a loooooong ride.
You're welcome to come and get some from my department.
After a clearout last month we've bagged up about 1/2 ton of 'kindling' 😆
Only if you don't know the rules around trivial, non-contractual, non-monetary, irregular benefits - which it sounds like the new employee doesn't, so that pretty much makes them a nose-poker-inner.
The organisation i work for has a lower threshold than the govt one linked to earlier, as well might the OP's as he works for a school. LEA's often have internal policies in place for this kind of thing.
Whatever, i'll not try to be helpful to the OP in future then
legend - Member
Sounds like you're helping with recycling to me
Being pedantic, not if he's burning it, at best it might be classified as recovery.
A problem that could be solved using an off-cut of 4 x 2 with long nails through one end, old carpet, a spade/shovel and a bag of quicklime. New Deputy head time!
Whatever, i'll not try to be helpful to the OP in future then
No need to flounce. I've experienced compiling PSA submissions and notifying and getting amendments made to them. They are the arse-end of PAYE and NI and are totally ad hoc arrangements to allow companies to avoid excessive bureaucracy by not putting every benefit through a P11D. Trivial benefits such as these would not even make it into scope for a PSA let alone be required to be put through payroll and thus P11D.
The original fusspot might have good intentions, but it is nitpicking and 'a bit of knowledge' like this that can cause naive people to fret and tie themselves up in all sorts of bureaucratic knots for no reason. Stuff like this can be very disruptive in an environment if no one applies some common sense.
I've seen £100m turnover company accountants self-report VAT issues, then enter into hours and hours of work to pay £10 more VAT per quarter rather than just discuss the issue with the tax office and agree something sensible.
In any case, it is probably up to your employer to declare any 'benefit' you may be receiving and pay the PAYE and NI on it on your behalf, via a PSA. But as it is trivial anyway, it wouldn't even make it onto a PSA. How would you value it in any case?
Sandwich - Member
A problem that could be solved using an off-cut of 4 x 2 with long nails through one end, old carpet, a spade/shovel and a bag of quicklime. New Deputy head time!POSTED 10 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
I was thinking similarly, but it might be fair to give a warning/hint.
Something along the lines of "In the interests of safety, kids, you need to very careful with these powerful saws as they can remove limbs. In fact! big saws like this have also been used in the past for disposing of bodies, but we won't go into that now." Whilst making a telling stare at the jobsworth.
I think you've missed that he's a history teacher, danny - I suppose he could threaten to bore the deputy to death 😉
It will soon be Christmas. When the Deputy Head is piling all those bottles of wine, whiskey & boxes of chocolates that the kids/parents have given him into his car take the opportunity to remind him that he should be declaring that...
Take photos to make him feel more uncomfortable.
aracer - Member
I think you've missed that he's a history teacher, danny - I suppose he could threaten to bore the deputy to deathPOSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
I ignored it for comic effect.
In any case, I'm not in a position to make jokes about boring people to death what with being an [whisper] [i]accountant[/i] [/whisper]
MTB-Idle - Member
It will soon be Christmas. When the Deputy Head is piling all those bottles of wine, whiskey & boxes of chocolates that the kids/parents have given him into his car take the opportunity to remind him that he should be declaring that...Take photos to make him feel more uncomfortable.
POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST
Precisely this. It is this kind of pedantic nitpicking that initiates a witch hunt for every conceivable example where someone might be perceived as getting a benefit they should be taxed on. Thus taking away focus from stuff like, er, teaching kids.
This is why most tax offices are pretty pragmatic about stuff like this and their aim is, generally, not to make tax admin so onerous that it precludes people from actually doing their jobs. They're just not allowed to advertise that bit.
Jeez I'd be sacked a very long time ago if I worked in those rubbish circumstances. Works van for bike duties for starters 😯
initiates a witch hunt
Hmmm...class project on methods of witch execution in 17th Century Britain? Every student should provide something which could be used to start an execution bonfire. Which you will evaluate and mark at home.
I'll leave it up to the OP how he addresses the practical on hanging, drawing and quartering.
When the Deputy Head is piling all those bottles of wine, whiskey & boxes of chocolates that the kids/parents have given him into his car take the opportunity to remind him that he should be declaring that
He doesn't really sound like the kind of Deputy Head who would be popular enough to get that many taxable benefits, TBH.
Yeah, it's the classic new punk trying to make a name for themselves by invoking irrelevant and pedantic shite rather than cracking on and learning the ropes.
As before, petty crap like this just diverts people away from what they should be doing and ties them up in unnecessary bureaucratic knots. The tax office won't give a shit. Does anyone really think that a civil service department that has been crucified by the Tories would even entertain trying to value this benefit so it could be taxed? It would cost them more in man hours than they would take - hence the definition of 'trivial'.
What the OP should do is say to the jobsworth (or even better go over their head to the headmaster) "I agree, every potential benefit in kind received by any member of staff here has to go into a raffle, no exceptions, so every cake baked, every box of chocolates received has to go in. Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms X clearly has a background in personal taxation, so I recommend they administer it".
If idiots want to create unnecessary work, they should bear all of the burden. Otherwise they should shut the **** up and get on with the job they are actually paid for - teaching kids, safeguarding kids etc.
Wow; this one has run and run! Thanks for the answers folk; they fairly cheered me up.Especially as I was worried about the tub of celebrations a kid handed in for taking them to Poland in June. We destroyed the evidence but I may have to try and get in over the weekend to get the tub out the school just in case...
Tax aside, it’s not great wood to be burning (I assume all softwood?)
I just use it for Kindling Dunc,so % wise it is really small.