I'm sure there are plenty of others who've done it. For the record I'm male and my partner is female. Traditional 'Nuclear family', two parents, a kid and a dog.
We've been together for 20 years, and they've mostly been hard. We met when we'd both been hit by the shitty end of the life stick. Life can be hard for most people, but we've mostly moved from crisis to crisis, struggle to struggle, some self-inflicted, some just bad luck or just 'that's life'.
We seem to really excel at clutching failure from the jaws of success. Every time we reach a happy, comfortable equilibrium, we **** it all up. Sometimes that's been in terms of our relationship, but mostly it's financial. We both spend when we're unhappy, and it becomes a spiraling problem. The times we've, I've, tried to fix it, we've turned on each other.
I'm exhausted, I'm stressed all the time, I earn a lot, I'm not boasting, it's factual. Compared the the national average I earn a lot. My partner also earns a decent amount over average, but we've heavily indebted. On paper we're quite wealthy with a good 'net worth' but cash wise, we over spend.
Relationship wise, things were really good, but for a few months now, it like neither of us can be bothered to even go through the motions. I was trying to carry things for a long time, keeping the conversation going, keeping things fun etc, but I'm exhausted. For the last few weeks I've not been well and rather than try to be the happy clown, I've been listening carefully to what she says and keeping a mental note of it.
I won't be the first to say this, I don't know a Man in a long term relationship who hasn't said it, but she only has two topics she talks about the first is complaining about things. The living room ceiling is flaking, the garden is a mess, her car is dirty. For years I would respond by immediately trying to fix them. It made no difference, she wasn't 'nagging' to get me to do things, she's just a miserable soul. The second is talking about things she wants to buy, it's all consumer stuff. The latest fancy shampoo, clothing up to cars, holidays and houses, but the things has buys never make her happy, just moving onto the next thing. The negativity is crushing me. She's become a constant dark cloud over me.
I've asked her over and over if something is wrong, if something is bothering her, but she says she's fine. We're going to one of the Spanish Islands next month on Holiday, I'm dreading it. I haven't the energy to try to make her happy with my clown act, but if I don't, she'll drag Me and the Lad down with her. 10 days sat staring at the horizon has she complains it's too hot, or too cold, or too windy, or too humid, her shoes are wrong, or it's not the same as it was online, there are too many people, or it's too quiet.
Metaphorically I feel like I'm waiting to drop into a trail, some nasty double black thing. Every part of me wants to just release the brakes and send it, but I'm scared, all the what ifs. I think I'm just waiting for the tiniest of pushes. An argument, a misspoken word, a ****ing misunderstood text and I'll do it. A year (seems to be about right) of complete shit, we're not married but that doesn't seem to matter. What's best for our Son, where will I go etc etc etc?
you need to get some counselling on the go, and not from a mountain bike forum, a proper relationship counsellor...
Do you both want to save the relationship? ( not do you think you can but do you want to) If you do then counseling may help. Its very easy to get into a spiral of negative thoughts and actions and counseling can get you out of that pattern. I have been there. We were having horrific rows. 3 sessions with a relationship counselor and it was sorted and we have a great 25 years after that.
If you don't both want to save it then get out now
you need to get some counselling on the go, and not from a mountain bike forum, a proper relationship counsellor...
Why ? Sometimes things end... Not everything needs counselling.
i second and third the counselling. Even if it establishes that either/neither of you want to be in the relationship.
At least that way you can both hatch a plan to move on.
How old is your son? A break up is never easy, but two parents not trapped in a toxic/miserable relationship will be a better outcome for all parties, including him.
And try not to worry about the if's, what's, how's, it will all work out and for the better if its not meant to be.
When my partner of 13 years decided she didnt want to be with me anymore, i was heart broken (despite it being a naff relationship). But it was the best thing she did for me. I just celebrated my 10th wedding anniversary to an amazing woman, that without my ex's shove, i would've never met.
because, from what i read, things aren't great, but haven't gone totally to shit
a counsellor can help realise if it is over or if both parties want it not to be, helps get bugs and issues in the open in a controlled environment, without breaking down into arguments.
And if a split is on the cards, a counsellor may be able to make it easier and less painful, and less messy
Agree with TJ, counselling really helped us a while ago after a particularly crappy phase. But (big but) both people need to be invested in it and prepared to talk/listen and work on improving things.
There are still times when it's hard work though!
We've been together for 20 years....
...Relationship wise, things were really good, but for a few months now, it like neither of us can be bothered to even go through the motions.
20 years is a long time and if things have only been tough for a few months then surely its worth getting some help to see if things are salvageable?
I won't be the first to say this, I don't know a Man in a long term relationship who hasn't said it, but she only has two topics she talks about the first is complaining about things. The living room ceiling is flaking, the garden is a mess, her car is dirty. For years I would respond by immediately trying to fix them. It made no difference, she wasn't 'nagging' to get me to do things, she's just a miserable soul. The second is talking about things she wants to buy, it's all consumer stuff. The latest fancy shampoo, clothing up to cars, holidays and houses, but the things has buys never make her happy, just moving onto the next thing. The negativity is crushing me. She's become a constant dark cloud over me.
She sounds like hard work. She knows where the paint brushes are, right? and the mower? and the car shampoo (who washes a car anyway). does she make any any effort to fix the things she complains about?
she sounds like a bit of a princess, are you a bit of a yes man? just do whatever she wants for a quiet life?
if youre kinda waiting on her, or for her constantly, perhaps it would help to carve out a bit of independance? Can you take the boy out riding? spend time away from her without dropping the bomb on the whole thing just yet?
If shes gonna spend the week in spain lying on a sun bed, can you find some stuff for you and the boy to do, and leave her to it?
Spanish islands have can have some incredible snorkling.
Compared the the national average I earn a lot. My partner also earns a decent amount over average, but we've heavily indebted. On paper we're quite wealthy with a good 'net worth' but cash wise, we over spend.
Cant you just, not? you didnt mention how your finances are managed? i feel they might be bundled into one pot, with no one really taking responsibility for how full the pot is or isnt?
If so, i would suggest working out what your regular monthly outgoings are (including bill payments), putting enough into a joint account together, either 50:50, or a percentage of your respective wages, and then keeping the rest to yourself. Then if she (or you) want to spend other money on stupid ****, then youve got to manage it and justify it to yourself.
Why ? Sometimes things end... Not everything needs counselling.
Have you ever had counselling?
The number have thing i have missed out on or failed at that would have been simply (not necessarily easily) by an arsy attitude (and thats what it is) to counselling.
Nothing the OP described sounds like a disastrous relationship. I just sounds like two unhappy people. Learning how to deal with your own problems can make a big difference.
better to try counselling and then know one way or the other or blow it because you couldn't be arsed dealing with emotions.
"She sounds like hard work. She knows where the paint brushes are, right? and the mower? and the car shampoo (who washes a car anyway). does she make any any effort to fix the things she complains about?
she sounds like a bit of a princess, are you a bit of a yes man? just do whatever she wants for a quiet life?"
This may be the crux of the problem, I WAS a yes man. My self-esteem used to be so bad I'd do anything for anyone who asked me nicely. It's made for some pretty unpleasant relationships with friends & family, because it doesn't really matter how one sided things are, if you stop doing so much for others, they become very upset or even angry.
I've lost friends in the last few years, not in any big way, but it seems once you're no longer useful to some people they're not bothered about spending time with you.
When it comes to her, she'll simply say "Oh, I don't like doing that" and that's it, discussion over, so either I can do it, or it sits there. An inanimate object gnawing at me.
Me and my ex tried counselling - it drove us further apart because all the stuff that had lain dormant and unsaid came out in to the open. At least it made us realise there was no going back.
Why ? Sometimes things end... Not everything needs counselling.
Have you ever had counselling?
No, i sectioned my first wife so counselling wasn't needed.
If i reached the stage when i'm done with my current wife, nothing is going to change by talking to someone. I can safely say the same for her if she reaches that point. Not everyone wants or would respond to counselling. It baffles me how that's the default response of society these days.
"20 years is a long time and if things have only been tough for a few months then surely its worth getting some help to see if things are salvageable?"
Oh it's been tough on and off for years. We've done the counselling thing, the guy actually gave her a bit of a verbal kicking.
We agreed to make changes, and changes were made, but she's mostly returned to type, she pays lip service to it, but that's about.
I could salvage it easily enough, I could ask her to go back to counselling and I'm sure she would. She'd actually be (not just act) happier for a few weeks, months even. Or I could just switch off, go through the motions, be one of those guys who moans about "the Mrs" down the pub, but I don't think I've got the energy any more. It's all so one-sided.
I'm ready for a life less ordinary. I read through the early retirement thread (which made me post here). In theory I could double down in work, hard work and a bit of luck and I could retire at 57 with a comfortable, if not flash income. I don't really care about material things (bikes notwithstanding), but how can I do that when I work hard all day, go home to pick up everything there and spend everything on stuff just so she happy for a few moments.
It sounds like your mind is pretty much made up, so not sure what you are expecting to hear from this post. Maybe just crack on.
Why ? Sometimes things end... Not everything needs counselling.
Have you ever had counselling?
No, i sectioned my first wife so counselling wasn't needed.
If i reached the stage when i'm done with my current wife, nothing is going to change by talking to someone. I can safely say the same for her if she reaches that point. Not everyone wants or would respond to counselling. It baffles me how that's the default response of society these days.
which is why I qualified it with " if you BOTH want to save the relationship"
Need to be careful what I say as some folk on here know me in real life, but from what you've described I'd suggest counselling for you, and then maybe together.
Lots of things bubbling away from what you described and maybe a non-judgemental view on your problems and what you want will give you some space and clarity before tackling the relationship.
Relationships go through good and awful times, sometimes you need to take a step back and focus on what is best for your son, yourself, and the other person. In that order.
Ok, to be blunt that's a lot of whining in the original post. It might be that leaving your partner is where this ends but it sounds like you have some bad habits round spending, materialism etc. So have a very good think , if I leave what will be better? Or am I going to be just the same, but alone with bad finances.
I'd be looking to go to some counselling alone, and figure what you actually want to be
Sorry to hear all that OP. I can't offer relationship advice but I'll say one thing: try to find a single person whose parents split/divorced when they were kids and says "I really wish they'd stayed together for my sake". I think you'll struggle.
I don't know a Man in a long term relationship who hasn't said it, but she only has two topics she talks about
Not remotely my experience with my better half of 10+ years
you need to get some counselling on the go, and not from a mountain bike forum, a proper relationship counsellor...
Why ? Sometimes things end... Not everything needs counselling.
so you never put your car/bike in for a service?
What a daft analogy. My car is an inanimate object not a human. Of course I service my car or bike but what the heck does that have to do with being married to someone.
Don't give me a load of tripe about it being the same because 'it needs work' because that's just completely ridiculous.
I get that some people or couples nay need counselling, but it seems society has deemed that as the default, maybe she's just a selfish cow and he's better off without her.
I don't know, but he's got a decent idea, hence the thread.
All this touchy feely garbage isn't always what's needed.
Sounds like a couple of hard working folks trying to figure out life in modern times.
first it helps to speak with each other about real things.
second it helps to NOT have a solution to everything - moaning is not always a request for something to be fixed, more often it is something to be discussed.
and third, counselling can probably help if you cannot speak to each other like adults. And that is a hard thing.
good luck. Don’t give up. You probably have a good thing going - after all, why did you get together in the first place?
I don't know a Man in a long term relationship who hasn't said it, but she only has two topics she talks about
Not remotely my experience with my better half of 10+ years
Nor me. We were never short of things to talk about. Mind you the biggest row we ever had was over alternative taxation systems 🙂
Weeksy
counseling saved my relationship and we had 25 good years afterwards and it also saved my sanity recently
I get your point - some folk use it as a crutch and or an excuse or overuse it becoming dependent on it. I know a couple that had 3 hours a week for years!
But it is easy to get into negative habits in a relationship and it usually does not take much intervention to turn it around. I think 4 sessions for us to go from a relationship going down the pan to 25 happy years
counseling saved my relationship and we had 25 good years afterwards and it also saved my sanity recently
Conversely, the first and only counselling session my ex & I had made it abundantly clear that was the conclusion to our marriage...
Whenever there is something Im thinking about, STW pops up with a thread .... Trip to south of france, one man tent, should we split a 20 year relationship.
I saw a quote the other day .... Would you be happy if your child was married to your partner?
If its a no ...... then why are you !!
Hmmm ... its still not that easy, is it?
My wife first said to me 5 odd years ago that we should break up, more recently she has said it on numerous occasion. 11 days ago I finally said "OK then, I think you are right."
Within hours she'd changed her mind, within 24 hours her whole persona had changed.
For the last 10 days I'm no longer looked at like something on her shoe. I'm no longer interrupted every, single, time, I ever try to say anything. If something doesn't go quite to plan it's no longer my fault..... etc etc
For the last 10 days she is soft and pleasant, no longer hard and cruel.
WTF !!
counseling saved my relationship and we had 25 good years afterwards and it also saved my sanity recently
Conversely, the first and only counselling session my ex & I had made it abundantly clear that was the conclusion to our marriage...
depends on your attitude i guess but i would say counselling has worked then?
If you weren't sure before and decided to try counselling. You got to a conclusion. I don't think anyone has suggested it fixes everything. Personal experiences might say it helped them.
Its not a dirty word and its not touchy feely nonsense. I found my experiences all quite logical.
I can't stand happy clappy bullshit.
Agree with the above, counselling worked for my old relationship. There was talk of reconciliation from my exes side and that was what I was hoping for. But a few sessions later and I could see she was just going through the motions and not engaging with it. It was hard to deal with but it drew a line under the relationship for me.
So whilst not saving the relationship, it did mean I didn't spend another god knows how long in limbo, so I'd say it was worthwhile.
Also, I'd note I'm not good at articulating my emotions but the counsellor did help me with this at the time. I'm still rubbish mind.
Weeksy
counseling saved my relationship
As always, TJ is right , alternative views are unnecessary.
Sounds like you both have the work-life balance tipped too far to the work side of things, with all those little jobs building up comfort purchases. It's always tricky when both sides work hard and kids are in the mix as well.
That being said, some couples do seem to spiral downwards and bring out the worst in each other, rather than the opposite. I've seen it in other people.
You know this already of course, but as you have a child together you will be tied together at least until the child is 18.
So you may as well make it as harmonious as possible. Councelling can really help with that.
In my case there were no kids, but we went from pretty much throwing things at each other to splitting up but shareing the house very happily together for another 3 and a half years.
We eventually sold up and moved on 11 years ago but she's still very much one of my closest friends. This is what councelling can achieve.
Good councelling is not happy clappy bullshit, it can be one of the hardest things you can do. There was not one session where I didn't walk out feeling utterly drained, but it's one of the best things I've ever done.
I'd also recommend counselling. Not necessarily relationship counselling, unless you know you're both committed to continuing the relationship. But maybe counselling for yourself.
Clearly neither of you are happy, and you've developed some communication habits that lead to negative spirals. If you've kept the relationship thus far, you've both had some commitment to it and for your kid's sake if nothing else it's worth trying to improve yourself.
I'm in an... interesting period of unplanned growth, I'll say, at the moment. And I've learned a hell of a lot about relationships, and how well-handled conflict is actually key to staying together and making things work. And how much our unconscious triggers, ego noise and undealt-with childhood trauma (which doesn't have to be a massive event to be traumatic to us) can influence our attachment styles and the way we understand ourselves. And how we can "successfully" ignore all this stuff for years but keep making the same mistakes or suffering the same problems.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate." - Carl Jung
So, whether you want to continue in the relationship or not, I'd recommend looking at yourself and what makes you happy and unhappy. It doesn't have to be woo happy clappy stuff, but understanding yourself better will help you handle life with more calmness and clarity. And possibly might save your relationship. It doesn't have to involve seeing a counsellor, there's lots you can work on yourself, but you have to be prepared to keep showing up for yourself and doing the work. It's not easy, but it can be so light-ening when you have those "aha!" moments and start healing decades-old problems
I've found relationship instagram super useful, particularly @thesecurerelationship @relationshipswithaly, @stefanossifandos, @amythelifecoach, @quentin.g.decamp and @goodmorgantherapy.
Bon courage.
I get that some people or couples nay need counselling, but it seems society has deemed that as the default, maybe she's just a selfish cow and he's better off without her.
At least with counseling you'd potentially both go away and know what your issues were and could work on yourselves for the benefit of your future relationships rather than one bad relationship potentially turning into two.
Or everyone on STW is perfect along with about 50% of our partners, which seems unlikely.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, but why does everyone have 'issues' now that need working through.
I've had things in my life like parents splitting up, people dying, even massive trauma injuries, but that doesn't mean I have to work through them and fix them, can't it just be that they happened and that's it? I dont understand why everything needs to be fixed.
There's good bits in life, crap bits too. Isn't that just ok now?
I'm very well aware of my issues as a husband. But like many people I try my best to not be the issues as much as I can.
If we all get fixed, what a bloody robotic world we'd live in.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, but why does everyone have 'issues' now that need working through.
I've had things in my life like parents splitting up, people dying, even massive trauma injuries, but that doesn't mean I have to work through them and fix them, can't it just be that they happened and that's it? I dont understand why everything needs to be fixed.
There's good bits in life, crap bits too. Isn't that just ok now?
I'm very well aware of my issues as a husband. But like many people I try my best to not be the issues as much as I can.
If we all get fixed, what a bloody robotic world we'd live in.
Sounds like some unresolved issues there.
Also sounds very like MrsMC when I suggested counselling the last time she had a go at me.
Sounds shit. Sympathies.
Whenever I attend a shared gathering, almost all my partner's female friends spend the whole time complaining. Always someone else doing something wrong. They complain about the school, the scouts, the council, the vet, the neighbours. Everything.
They're all healthy and wealthy enough, no idea where it all comes from.
From observation I think it's a learned behaviour from others (parents?) and also a bit habit forming. It's probably quite fun at first.
I'm fortunate to not have to deal with it at all, but bloody hell, it looks like hard work to be on the end of.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, but why does everyone have 'issues' now that need working through.
I've had things in my life like parents splitting up, people dying, even massive trauma injuries, but that doesn't mean I have to work through them and fix them, can't it just be that they happened and that's it? I dont understand why everything needs to be fixed.
There's good bits in life, crap bits too. Isn't that just ok now?
I'm very well aware of my issues as a husband. But like many people I try my best to not be the issues as much as I can.
If we all get fixed, what a bloody robotic world we'd live in.
Sounds like some unresolved issues there.
Also sounds very like MrsMC when I suggested counselling the last time she had a go at me.
Why does it need resolving?
With your trauma injuries did you have any rehab? Or did you just accept the injuries were there to stay?
Firstly i find these threads so useful in terms of a lens for my own life.
To the OP
In terms of what I’ve seen here i think junior needs to get more of a mention. You’re clear about what the split offers you. What about junior? I’m not saying that kids means staying together is better. It could mean a split is essential. But IMHO it has to be factored in.
In the discussion here counselling might not be the answer. Particularly as in this case the OP has been through it.
But in the case of a long term relationship ending counselling seams worthy of consideration. Not because it’s touchy feely and fixes things. But because, as lots of people have said here, it makes things clearer
Counselling of individuals can be an amazing thing.
It is over used and in some circumstances can be harmful. When something traumatic happens to a group and everyone gets an hours session, that’s a bad thing. The overall outcomes are worse than not offering the sessions. Most people cope fine and a single sessions gets in the way of some peoples natural ability to deal with trauma
But I’ve had a family member absolutely fixed by counselling. They had terrible mental heath as a result of a traumatic situation. 18 sessions then a gap then 6 more transformed that life
So yes i do reply to threads on here saying, have you considered counselling. Because I’ve seen it help. But i fully accept that some people don’t want or need counselling. They can ignore my advice
There are three of you. The 'kid' needs to be foremost in your thoughts and considerations. Whatever you do with your lives don't let it **** up theirs. That could be staying or going. Even if you aren't married you're joint parents for life. Try cup half full, though as an outsider it looks 3/4 full.
If we all get fixed, what a bloody robotic world we'd live in.
Or a world where people are calmer, kinder, more tolerant, more open minded, nicer.
As its been said, counselling of any form is a personal choice and you have to want it and find a good one, that works with you.
But equally, if you are happy to carry trauma, resentment, pain, mental weight and whatnot else around with you, thats also fine. A lot of the time, the reason you act in situation A can be caused by trauma Z many moons ago, you just dont know it.
I've had a bit of therapy over the years and i am a better person for it, which then means my wife gets more out of me, as do my children. As do my friends and family. Everyone wins. You could be content with who you are and your 'ups and downs', or you could try and be the best version of you possible.
She sounds like hard work. She knows where the paint brushes are, right? and the mower? and the car shampoo (who washes a car anyway). does she make any any effort to fix the things she complains about?
It's not about the flaky paint. It might be about the difficulty in making decisions together; it might be disappointment or frustration with where she and OP have ended up; it might be envy of the neighbours; it might be because the disrepair or disorganisation reminds her of her chaotic childhood; it might be because she feels powerless to fix it; it might be worry that she's not providing the environment for her child that she wants; it might be a lot of things and none of the above.
But I bet you a fiver it is not about the flaky paint because otherwise she would have been happy when OP fixed the flaky paint last time.
or you could try and be the best version of you possible.
And when you find out that the best version of you is still pretty crap?
(That's not aimed at you personally, btw! 😀 )
If we all get fixed, what a bloody robotic world we'd live in.
Or a world where people are calmer, kinder, more tolerant, more open minded, nicer.
As its been said, counselling of any form is a personal choice and you have to want it and find a good one, that works with you.
But equally, if you are happy to carry trauma, resentment, pain, mental weight and whatnot else around with you, thats also fine. A lot of the time, the reason you act in situation A can be caused by trauma Z many moons ago, you just dont know it.
I've had a bit of therapy over the years and i am a better person for it, which then means my wife gets more out of me, as do my children. As do my friends and family. Everyone wins. You could be content with who you are and your 'ups and downs', or you could try and be the best version of you possible.
If you'd known me 20 years ago you'd know this is the best version of me possible
Well thats great for you but I didn't get that impression of the OP.
I'll fess up.. I'm divorced, we made it pretty clean , put a lot of priority on the kids. For us it was a good idea, but don't assume it's a magic happiness pill,
If we all get fixed, what a bloody robotic world we'd live in.
We have very, very different perspectives on counselling. Where are you getting "robotic" from? It seems the polar opposite to me. Counselling is there to help you understand your feelings.
Sorry to hear you have found yourself in a unhappy situation.
Over 20 years we each change; that's a lot of personal growth if done well. It's sad to admit, but sometimes two people just don't grow in the same direction.
Counselling can offer you distraction techniques and possibly change your perspective on things to become that person you really don't want to be at this time. However, if you can afford it, then time away will be a better gauge of what's best moving forward .. you may realise things worse on the other side - or realise just how bad things really were.
Good luck.
Over 20 years we each change; that's a lot of personal growth if done well. It's sad to admit, but sometimes two people just don't grow in the same direction.
Very much this - we've lived together 25 years now, youngest about to fly the nest, both trying to find the balance of being who we want to be as individuals and hopefully also as a couple.