[Closed] Dealing with racism

which had been and would continue to be as brutal

You have no idea what you are talking about.

There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever between the behaviour of British Imperialists, and that of Japanese Imperialists.

And unlike you, the peoples of the colonies knew that.

That is why for example, 2 million citizens of India volunteered to help the British Empire defeat Japan. Which represents the largest volunteer army, ever, anywhere, in history.

North Koreans the superior race you inferior, ... you maggots, Dear Leader Kim steps on you.

Ernie, I've disagreed with many things you've written, but what you said above was 100% sppot on.

For someone to suggest the British and Japanese were similar in how they treated their colonies is utter ill-informed nonsense.

[i]The joke is racist because it treats ****stanis and Gujaratis as 'all the same'.[/i]

In that case I'm racist and am quite happy about the fact.

The joke is racist because it treats ****stanis and Gujaratis as 'all the same'.

That's not racist; ignorant maybe but misunderstanding of political boundaries is not racism.

Am I racist in saying I like Indian restaurants? Because a significant proportion of those I like are most likely Bangladeshi.

I'm white and scottish, in no way am I a minority in the UK, however when living in Asia, I have been on the receiving end of racism many tinmes.

Simple things from being told I can't enter a restaurant because I'm American, to abuse being shouted at me by young men in the street.

It's not pleasant, but at the same time I didn't really care. I had to teach using text books (modern text books) with black characters in them who had massive lips and big white eyes. My students were effectively instituitionally racist, they were really rude about black people, but it was more a fear of the unkown than anything else.

Mrs Q was a bit racist, but again that is this drummed into her nonsense in Thailand that black skin is lower class so therefore anybody who is black must be dirty and poor.
However since living in the UK and spending the vast majority of her days with asylum seekers and immigrants, she realised that what she had been led to believe was crap and although there were still a few knobbers, in the most part people are ok.

Mrs Q had a great time in Korea, she never once received any of the negativity that can be shown towards people from SEA (other than the twunts at immigration the first time who held her there for three hours, but that is another story).
She used to have fantastic conversations with Koreans in Korean and broken English about why she looked the same as them but didn't speak Korean properly. Mental.

Back in the UK, she has only been on the receiving end of direct racism a couple of times, and some indirect stereotyping a few times. A lot better than we expected.

What to do about a racist friend. Hard to say. He has a belief that doesn't go with your own, it's up to you if you keep seeing him but you need to tell them why you don't want to if you make that decision.

I truely dispare with the whole rasism card. The boundrys of what is not acceptable seem to shift to the point of lunacy in my mind. How for example can a black board possibly offend anyone? No cant call it that, its a chalk board. Who you calling chalky? Where does it stop? Its got to the point where mindless ideots with zero common sense will brand everyone and anyone racist. Its counter productive and just confuses people, if not anoy them for something they ment absolutly no offense by to the point where I have just given up trying.

I truely dispare with the whole rasism card.

The EU are banning bent bananas too you know!

The EU are banning bent bananas too you know!

So what are we going to throw at the coons then? It's political correctness gone mad I tell you!

(it's a joke... )

I have just given up trying to understand what you mean
fixed it for you

I've heard that joke described as "shocking" and "utterly racist" but to my mind it's just harmless humour

Some of my best friends are racists, but I wouldn't let my sister marry one!

She must be so proud of your judgement skills.

Am I racist in saying I like Indian restaurants? Because a significant proportion of those I like are most likely Bangladeshi.

I truely dispare with the whole rasism card...........How for example can a black board possibly offend anyone?

And I truly despair with people who believe the crap they read in the Daily Mail/Sun ..... it's [i]"tabloid rantness"[/i] gone mad I tell you.

Provide me with one single example, of a teacher in anywhere in the UK, who has been disciplined for using the world blackboard.

And btw, if you had spent more time actually looking at the blackboard, instead of out of the window, your spelling might be a tad better today 💡

An ideal of racially superiority and the condescension inherent within it, has no place within our society.

Intelectectual superiority and the condescension inherent within it, seems to be perfectly acceptable.

Just an observation.

Jujuuk68 - Member

It's political correctness gone mad I tell you!

Its " political correctness living with mental health issues"

An ideal of racially superiority and the condescension inherent within it, has no place within our society.

Intelectectual superiority and the condescension inherent within it, seems to be perfectly acceptable.

Am I racist in saying I like Indian restaurants? Because a significant proportion of those I like are most likely Bangladeshi.

No just ignorant - you have proved that point many times though jon

He said Bangladesh - I think a ****stani restauraunt would not call itself Indian - do you know the history between these two countries ?

Yes check Yell for London/manchester, Birmingham or other areas and you have no restaraunts but Indian well spotted
In manc they call it curry mile not indian mile if that helps you any
Now what was I saying about ignorance?
Troll surely

[i]it is playing to a national sterotype [/i]
Most national stereotypes, and indeed almost any type of stereotype have generally got at either a degree of truth about them, or have had in the past. That's how they became stereotypes.

[i]more likely to be told by a racist[/i]

If being called racist is the price one has to pay for telling a few jokes then that's fine. To be honest, if I was Indian or ****stani I think I'd be quite offended not by the joke, but more by the fact people think I'd be so thin skinned as to be bothered by it.

I'm Scottish and quite happy for other folk to make jokes about Scotland. If someone said to me they didn't tell a joke because they thought I'd find it offensive then I'd find that very patronising.

Most folk, whatever their colour or nationality actually have a sense of humour and can laugh at themselves and at others, and see jokes for what they are ie a way of making people laugh.

Oh and I do admittedly sometimes mix up ****stan and India. I'm sure people over there often mix up Scotland and England. It's not racism, just an honest mistake. I'm pretty tired of folk seeing racism in the slightest remark.

'many' times

Bit harsh, Junkyard 😉

A few, I'll give you - and ftr on this point I acted ignorant to make the point. My Bangladeshi workmate would rather we called them curry restaurants as a generic / if we don't know the exact geographical location. Not that most curry restaurants don't pull dishes from right across the region anyway.... oh, you get the point!

Those bloody maoris coming here infrequently and occassionally stealing the odd job. Bah! The lot of them

Why have 50 pence pieces got 7 sides?

So you can get them out of a Scots hand with a spanner!!

I had a best mate, grew up with him since i was about 5, but through our 20's I started to noticed the racism coming from him, he kept getting worse with his comments, and I'd challenge him about it often, until there wasn't even any talking to him about it, he eventually referred to me a p***lover and such rather than even listen to reason, that's when i eventually realised enough was enough, he's unreachable. I didn't say anything after I thought that, but I just slowly drifted away from him over a period of 6 months to a year. Now I've not seen him in years. I don't regret it in the slightest.

btw i do think there is a difference between ignorantly stereotyping and pure racism, the former you can usually reason with..

which had been and would continue to be as brutal

You have no idea what you are talking about.

There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever between the behaviour of British Imperialists, and that of Japanese Imperialists.

Actually I do know what I am talking about, specifically with regard to South East Asia. In fact your comments make clear that it is you that has no idea waht you are talking about. It seems you may have a one sided 'education' in this respect.

2 million volunteers? Wow, erm... what's that as a percentage?

I'm well aware of the history between India and ****stan. I just think it's funny seeing people like you getting wound up over nothing and then branding everyone racists.I think all of the Indian restaurants where I live are owned by ****stanis. I work in the middle east where most of the labour comes from the Indian Sub-continent and SE Asia. Do you know how many different class levels they have, even just among the Indians? Is that racism? How do you think the Arabs treat them? Do you know that many of the asians will cover their faces in rags in +50 deg heat to prevent then from getting a tan as dark skin is associated with farm workers ie lower class citizens? (and this is coming from people earning $40/week). Have you even been out of the UK? I've spent the best part of 20 years travelling around the world working with all races and cultures. I'm not a racist or ignorant.
Plenty of "PC" know it alls talking out of their arses as usual.

KT1973 has valid points there - read and try and understand?

Charlie - there really is no comparison between the british empire and the japanese in SE asia.

For example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

Um, isn't the point here that it's a good thing to recognise that it is wrong to blanket blame and project hate. It's not extra worthy to do so if you scale up the numbers. Understanding is the end in itself.

And btw, if you had spent more time actually looking at the blackboard, instead of out of the window, your spelling might be a tad better today

Why worry about racists with that sort of nastiness?

Most national stereotypes, and indeed almost any type of stereotype have generally got at either a degree of truth about them, or have had in the past. That's how they became stereotypes.

I just think it's funny seeing people like you getting wound up over nothing and then branding everyone racists.

Do you know how many different class levels they have

Have you even been out of the UK? I've spent the best part of 20 years travelling around the world working with all races and cultures. I'm not a racist or ignorant.
Plenty of "PC" know it alls talking out of their arses as usual.

ah when logic falters just go for an insult BRILLIANT

Has Realman explained who this girls seemingly very specific racial hatred is aimed at?

Lifer - Member

project - Member

Lifer the Jews may well control Hollywood just like Gay people control the media, its just peoples assumptions, just because theyre popuular and well paid, you see very few poor jews and even fewer poor gay people, its all down to jealousy and lack of understanding.

Sometimes people see racism where its not,ask your foreign freinds if theyre offended if you have any foreign freinds.

I think there's a point in there someone but damned if I know what it is.

Posted 18 hours ago # Report-Post

To make it simple for lifer non of us are born racist, like cats chase birds and dogs chase cats, racial stuff is LEARNT behaviour, and is usually made worse because some people want a whipping boy to punish for their failings, read the above and you may ust understand why.

Like i said people sometimes see racist behaviour in others when non is meant, ask a foreign person.

Has Realman explained who this girls seemingly very specific racial hatred is aimed at?

No I hadn't, but seeing as a (most) people are actually taking this seriously and trying to help (rather then just argue over who knows their history the best or whatever), I think I should. CountZero made some very good points, very useful. Thank you for your input.

She is from SW Turkey, but has lived in the UK for the past 4-5 years. She fully believes that everyone from east Turkey are incredibly bad people. So its not something that comes up a lot, but when it does, I find it quite unsettling. She is so smart and down to earth, its hard to believe its the same person.

Actually I do know what I am talking about, specifically with regard to South East Asia. In fact your comments make clear that it is you that has no idea waht you are talking about.

I originally put down your comment as simple naivety and thought it was rather quaint that someone should be so ignorant of the horrors and brutality of Japanese Imperialism........I fully expected you to admit your mistake. Apparently not.

To claim that there was no difference between Japanese Imperialism and British Imperialism in the 1940s, is a monstrous lie on par with the denial of the Holocaust or the full horrors and brutality of Nazism.

Quite frankly mate, you should be ashamed of yourself. I hope you are.

And yes, I am aware of the history of the British Empire, including the WW2 years. So you needn't bother throwing the Bengal famine of 1943 at me (or any other of the 20 odd famines which occurred post 1857)

Grimy - Member

Why worry about racists with that sort of nastiness?

Well I'm sorry that you are a tad sensitive fella, I'll bear that in mind in the future.

But since you went [i]through all the bother[/i] of actually posting a response to my comment, why didn't you also include an example of a teacher in anywhere in the UK, who has been disciplined for using the word "blackboard" as I asked ?

You make the allegation, now it back up.

Real man like i said above its LEARNT BEHAVIOUR, either from parents,school or seeing whats happening around her, not very clever is she if she doesnt understand how badly she has been socialised.

[i]good point blacks are lazy, the irish stupid, all scottish people stingy, the french all smell - well spotted you[/i]

blacks are great dancers with natural rythym, the Irish natural poets, all Scottish people are great at curling, the French all talk about philosophy all day - well spotted me. 🙂

ernie_lynch - Member

Grimy - Member

But since you went through all the bother of actually posting a response to my comment, why didn't you also include an example of a teacher in anywhere in the UK, who has been disciplined for using the word "blackboard" as I asked ?

You make the allegation, now it back up.

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

1994, I was supplying chalkboards to a large council supported charity, a dozen at a time, sent an invoice in for 12 blackboards, got a memo back a few days latter asking that they be called CHALKBOARDS,in future, thought it was a joke it wasnt, a few weeks latter same chap asked for a dozen white boards, eg, white on both sides of the easel for painting on, i sent a similar memo back saying they should be called paint easels, so as not to upset white people,

Silence off the PCM,

PCM= politically correct muppet,

1994, I was .......

The term "chalkboard" is an American term for blackboard, in the same way as elevator is for lift. It is arguably more precise, as many blackboards are in fact green.

I still want to know of a single instance where a teacher has been disciplined for using the "racist" term blackboard.......come on, there must be loads of examples if this story is true. Unless of course, no L.A. has deemed the word to be racist.

Some people like to use the term "dude" on here, I prefer to use the term "mate". One term is American, the other is British. Maybe the ones which say [i]dude[/i] do so because [i]mate[/i] is offensive to homosexuals ?

That would certainly explain why on a couple of a occasions on here, I been told "I'm not your mate".

It's political correctness gone mad I tell you.

I originally put down your comment as simple naivety and thought it was rather quaint that someone should be so ignorant of the horrors and brutality of British Imperialism........I fully expected you to admit your mistake. Apparently not.

To claim that there was a difference between Japanese Imperialism and British Imperialism, is a monstrous lie on par with the denial of the Holocaust or the full horrors and brutality of Nazism.

Quite frankly mate, you should be ashamed of yourself. I hope you are.

And yes, I am aware of the history of the British Empire, including the WW2 years. So you needn't bother throwing the Bengal famine of 1943 at me (or any other of the 20 odd famines which occurred post 1857)

...and still I'm talking about South East Asia.

You don't have to go back to pre-war years, you need to look at what the British Army did to the communist 'insurgents'. And i'm not ashamed, for all the stories of 'my grandad suffered..etc" there are many more who will tell you they were glad when the Japanese turned up.

[i]To claim that there was a difference between Japanese Imperialism and British Imperialism, is a monstrous lie on par with the denial of the Holocaust or the full horrors and brutality of Nazism.[/i]

[i]for all the stories of 'my grandad suffered..etc" there are many more who will tell you they were glad when the Japanese turned up.[/i]

I've seen some utter drivel on this forum in my time, and I've written a fair bit too, but I doubt I've seen anything as utterly nonsensical as that.

I'd love to see you go to some of the old men who suffered at the hands of the Japanese (and not just British, but many other countries too), to look those men in the eyes and tell them they were on a par with the Japanese.

Unless you know anything about what the British did in South East Asia, you are just speculating.

I'd love to see you go to some of the old men who suffered at the hands of the British, to look those men in the eyes and tell them the British were any better than the Japanese.

I'm sure the British Army were no angels, but there's just absolutely no comparison with the attrocities carried out by the Japanese.

As for how native populations were treated, do phrases such as "the rape of Nanking" or "Korean comfort women" ring any bells? Are you seriously saying that Britain commited acts on a par with those? If so, please point me in the direction of them so I can read about them.

This has gone on for 3 pages: RealMan what are you going to do?

It sounds like a complex area to get into discussing with her and I can see why it may not emerge much. Is her view linked to loss in the family based on this east/west conflict? That'll be a fairly solid start for judgemental thinking. Unfortunately she has a skewed view of her country, maybe you can encourage her to learn more about history; which may in turn expose the history of the conflict in it's true detail?

Depends on the relationship you have.

You do know that you sound like a child CharlieMungus, with your edited versions of what people have said ..... don't you ?

.

And actually kennyp's comment : "[i]I'd love to see you go to some of the old men who suffered at the hands of the Japanese[/i]" is somewhat flawed in that there will be almost certainly no one alive today, who suffered at the hands of the Japanese. Those that did survive the war after been held captive by the Japanese, nearly all died rather young.

I can't be bothered arguing with someone who claims that the Japanese were no more brutal than the British btw.

It's probably worth adding that there were and are lots of nice Japanese people too.

At this point Deadly, it's probably best to focus on the fact that the Japanese Imperial army used civilians for bayonet practice, executed Chinese POWs by blowing them up with landmines, dousing them with petrol, setting them on fire, etc, etc, and generally behaving even worst than the Nazis, as some people appear to be ignorant of the facts. Unless of course, they believe the British also did those things.

[i]is somewhat flawed in that there will be almost certainly no one alive today, who suffered at the hands of the Japanese[/i]

There are still a few. One lives near some friends of ours in Surrey. I'm sure there must be others too.

I can't be bothered arguing with someone who claims that the Japanese were no more brutal than the British btw.

I agree, there is little point in arguing here. I am well aware of the atrocities of some of the Japanese as these are well publicised. Because the winners write the history most people, such as yourself are not aware of the the British atrocities. Nevertheless, you only need to talk to the people who were there especially in the post war years to know that the British executed and brutalised whole communities in their war on communism in SE Asia. I understand that you think I am wrong in making the comparisons, but that's part of the problem. The foul behaviour of the British in SE Asia is one of those episodes of history that has been swept under the carpet. My family lived through it, they were not unusual, there is a large folk memory of what the British did.

i have a friend who is racist against south africans and when pressed on the subject he claims its that he cant stand their history of racism - the mind boggles!!
ernie-lynch - dresden.

Bad Nenndorf

Does it not make you wonder that the perpetrators of the great atrocities happen to be the 2 losing nations of the 2nd world war? and only them?

And actually kennyp's comment : "I'd love to see you go to some of the old men who suffered at the hands of the Japanese" is somewhat flawed in that there will be almost certainly no one alive today, who suffered at the hands of the Japanese. Those that did survive the war after been held captive by the Japanese, nearly all died rather young.

Almost certainly... He could have a chat to my uncle.

I am well aware of the atrocities of some of the Japanese as these are well publicised. Because the winners write the history most people, such as yourself are not aware of the the British atrocities.

Actually I would say the reverse. Japanese atrocities are not well publicised here in the UK, compared to Nazi atrocities, despite the fact that they were in fact worst, partly at the insistence of the United states.

Winners might well write history, but the Philippines, Singapore, China, etc, are all today independent countries who are free to publicise all details of 'British atrocities'. Yet despite still strong anti-Japanese feelings because of Japanese Imperialism, to the point that there are still, 70 years later, anti-Japanese public demonstrations, there appears to be no comparable anti-British feelings.

And I am fully aware of the role of British, French, and American Imperialism, in SE Asia. It does not however, give me a right to lie and claim that Japanese Imperialism was no worst.

BTW, I can't be arsed to engage in a detailed argument with you, but I reserve the right to comment when you post what imo, is offensive claims that Japanese behaviour in the 1940s was no worst than British behaviour. In the same way that I would challenge a Nazi sympathiser who attempted to deny the Holocaust, or play down the level of Nazi atrocities.

as above.

but why do you put 'British atrocities' in inverted commas? Do you doubt they were atrocities? If you are fully aware of them, please detail a few of them here. for the benefit of all.

there appears to be no comparable anti-British feelings.

yes, they are very popular all over the world

The inverted commas is to emphasis 'British atrocities' as opposed to 'Japanese atrocities'. The point is being, that these countries can freely publicise all details of 'British' atrocities.

Note that I didn't use 'quotation marks' which might have suggested I doubted that Britain could have ever committed any 'atrocities'.

Any other questions concerning my 'punctuation' ?

BTW on another thread recently, I wrote a big long spiel about the American 'atrocity' which was the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. Awareness of this appalling atrocity, doesn't make me come to the conclusion that Japanese Imperialism was no worst than American Imperialism. It was.

And in reference to jonah tonto's comment, whilst Dresden might well represent a totally unjustified and senseless killing of civilians, it does not in anyway compare with the atrocities committed by the Nazis. Nor can it lead us to the conclusion that the Nazis were no worst than the Allies. They were.

Still waiting for your detailed knowledge of British atrocities in SE Asia.

As an aside, by no means do I wish to undermine the suffering of folks' grandfathers etcdat the hands of the Japanese. Truly.
Though i do find it strange that no-ones grandfather was ever one of the British soldiers who burned raped and murdered their way through SE Asia immediately post-war and for many years after. I don't deny the suffering of your grandfathers, but your lack of recognition of what the British did, denies the suffering of my grandparents and their friends. I really don't want to offend anyone on this sensitive subject, but i only ask for the same recognition which you have.

Of course we still haven't discussed the 1 million Irish the British let die a hundred years earlier as part of that imperial campaign.

Any other questions concerning my 'punctuation' ?

nope, but on grammar, why do you keep using 'worst' instead of 'worse'?

on grammar, why do you keep using 'worst' instead of 'worse'?

That's simply down to 'poor' grammar.

Any other questions ?

'Presentation' maybe ?

War never changes.

In fact it is one of the few things mankind has proven itself to be extremely good at.

That and long winded forum arguments...

This has gone on for 3 pages: RealMan what are you going to do?

Still not sure. I haven't discussed it with her yet as it hasn't come up again, and I'm hesitant to start an argument with a woman (common sense I think). I think I will have to man up and do it though, especially if she mentions it. Its hard because I think its related to Kurds and such, and geography and history are far from my strong points. It seems she's into Turkish politics quite a lot, sounds like they get drilled it from school or something. All very complex.

Though I guess its simple really.

That's simply down to 'poor' grammar.

Any other questions ?

'Presentation' maybe ?

nope, you can go ahead with the details of the British atrocities in South East Asia, of which you are fully aware.

War never changes.

Pretty sure it does.

[img] [/img]

you can go ahead with the details of the British atrocities in South East Asia, of which you are fully aware.

I can't see anywhere, where I have mentioned anything about British atrocities in South East Asia, apart from the fact that the Philippines, Singapore, China, etc, are free to publicise details of any.

What are you talking about ?

So, this thread has gone from a question about how to deal with the politics of a sensitive, personal issue of racist attitudes to an argument about which race committed the greater atrocities.
How does this help anyone come to an understanding of dealing with prejudice? In that respect, bad is bad and that is all we need to know to live a more tolerant and accepting existence now.

edit - Ha. Realman. Thread reclaim.

I feel the need to enter yet another thread to ask that we leave the Irish out of this particular argument. Yes, the decimation of the population was horrendous, but it wasn't committed as part of a systematic attempt to exterminate a race or through atrocities committed by an army. The fact that the famine continued was largely down to ignorance, politics and bad communication. If the public had realised what was happening, they wouldn't have stood for it. (EDIT: This is purely speculation on my part because though there were some odious politicians involved, the average British person was a decent sort). Yes, people have blood on their hands over it, but it's a different discussion IMO.

Now Cromwell on the other hand... *

* Joke 🙂

over 250,000 civilian refugees burned bodies were recovered from dresden. it is estimated that numbers of civilian dead were much higher as no bodies could be found in the city centre where temps were recorded at 1600 C. this was not a military target and it was known that the city was a refugee camp full of women and children when the orders to create a firestorm were given. Churchill had asked for “suggestions how to blaze 600.000 refugees”. He wasn’t interested how to target military installations 60 miles outside of Dresden.
this does compare with the genocide mate cos it is genocide

And I am fully aware of the role of British, French, and American Imperialism, in SE Asia. It does not however, give me a right to lie and claim that Japanese Imperialism was no worst.

It is implicit in this. unless of course you claim there weren't any.

So, this thread has gone from a question about how to deal with the politics of a sensitive, personal issue of racist attitudes to an argument about which race committed the greater atrocities.

And not forgetting punctuation and grammar 💡