[Closed] Day-to-day running costs of a hybrid car? Real life pence per/mile pls.

If it helps, I managed to do a roughly 15 mile round trip in my dad's Corolla when I borrowed it with absolutely minimal engine running. It isn't a plug in but he's got it up to 62mpg average which should be easily repeatable.

People I know with Hybrids, before lockdown, we're reporting a massive drop in fuel costs if they were within electric range of the office as most of their driving was the daily commute. But for those who drove longer distances where the car was running on petrol engine more of the time were not returning spectacular MPG. I don't know anyone with Hybrids anymore. Most seem to have transitioned to full BEV's, but I think that is as much for tax reasons.

Don't get Hybrids really. If you only do short journeys then a BEV is best. If you do longer journeys then the most efficient diesel is best - even my wife's X3 can return high 50's mpg on a long motorway run so probably into the 60's mpg for the same engine in a smaller lighter car. Not sure a Hybrid can beat that by much if at all.

A hybrid seems to be the worst of both worlds really - really crap electric range for the short to medium distance journeys, and not great MPG if you're on long journeys running on petrol. Unless you're on a company car scheme or something where going hybrid attracts less tax charges. If you're only doing 15-20 miles per day then why not a BEV? (though they tend to be more expensive too).

If you’re only doing 15-20 miles per day then why not a BEV?

The flexibility if you only have one vehicle and can’t afford a BEV of the same size.
A friend of mine has a Outlander PHEV. 90%of the time he manages on the 20-25 mile battery range, and effectively gets between 90-120 mpg on the petrol side for most of the year. He can charge it from any 13a supply in about six hours. He makes trips to Scotland, Ireland and the Northeast from Herefordshire a few times a year. On a long run it manages about 35-40 mpg, and can charge it at his destination for day trips. It works for him

A hybrid seems to be the worst of both worlds really

Or the best, depending on your point of view. My neighbours have an Outlander PHEV which is generally one of the worst options. However their commute is within the battery range of the car, and the plug it in every night, so it doesn't matter. They almost never put petrol in it. It doesn't matter if it has a 40 mile range or a 400 mile range since it mostly only does 20 miles a day.

IF they need it to go a long way in a hurry, then they can do that too. They could drive all the way to Scotland if they want, a few hours quicker than I can in my BEV, and get fuel wherever they want when they get there.

Most people do lots of short trips and a few long ones. PHEV works really well for this. If you do a random mix of medium to long trips then it won't, but I suspect you're in the minority.

even my wife’s X3 can return high 50’s mpg on a long motorway run so probably into the 60’s mpg for the same engine in a smaller lighter car. Not sure a Hybrid can beat that by much if at all.

Depends on the car. A non-plug-in Prius will probably be near 70 on a motorway trip (and using petrol not diesel) but it will probably be only a bit lower in town. Your guess about their value is incorrect I think. And of course the PHEV will do much better than that in town, and finally if your commute is short it'll do infinity mpg. 50mpg is not good economy these days. Plus your X3 is probably lying to you.

I have ordered a Skoda Octavia hybrid, although I think I have two weeks ago but Skoda have not acknowledged the order yet and I have had an email about production issues, chips etc. It has a claimed range of 43 miles and I have a usual commute of 30 miles. I am confident that I can do the normal commute on electric even in hilly Cumbria. It is a company car, I will get big tax savings so it should be a double win for me.

I am interested in what people say. I did some research and felt confident for my range. I found a lot of positive stories about the real life economy of the Mercedes A250e but not much real world info on the VW engines.

Thanks for the comments so far everyone! Very helpful.
I have also been looking at a fully electric car - but to be honest they don't float my boat in terms of looks and spec (and yes I'm also taking into account looks & spec when buying a car) 🙂

I looked at the VW ID.3 - I quite like the external appearance but inside it is all plastic, very basic seats (with no lumber support), and more- it doesn't even have speakers in the back! They have basically stripped out the nice features to make it more affordable - or so it seems.

Dont want to sound like the prophet of doom, but i worry that as more and more 'go electric' the price starts to rise for charging them. Got us over a barrel so to speak.

I have a diesel hybrid. C300de AMG. My driving profile is exactly the same as yours. I think it is fantastic but there are some pretty major provisos to consider.

1) They are very susceptible to temperature, climate/heating use. Mine started at 20mls range in March, i now get 36mls. I usually get within a mile or so of the stated range so 36 mls can do 2 days for me 🙂

2) Home 3 pin chargers are next to useless. Dont listen to all those that make do. Its a PITA to plug it in every night and you just end up not bothering. Get a subsidised charger fitted for £500 and you will use it every night.

3) When you are indeed doing your 15-20mls per day it feels like you are getting free motoring. I used half a (small) tank of diesel in my first 1500mls. That was 25 quids worth of diesel and the rest electric.

4) As soon as you go on a journey of 40mls plus the fuel economy drops like a stone. Mine can do 50-60mpg on the diesel engine so that's not the end of the world. Our lads in the petrol versions are hating it because they cant be bothered to charge and in petrol form, they are even worse on fuel. If its a journey of 100mls or more i have tried every way to save fuel but i get an average of 70mpg whatever because the car is generating its own electricity which it feeds back in so not soul destroying

5) My electricity costs 6p/kw The battery takes about 13.5kw so it costs me 81p to fill for 36mls capacity. I would say on average i get 30mls on a full charge.

Basically it depends on my driving profile as to how much i save. When its all local it is an absolute dream. But lately i have done loads of long drives in which case its still pretty good but nowhere near saving me money. If it was petrol it would be horrid. I had to have my permanent charging point removed (Moving house) and since i got it removed it really has been sparodic use of electricity. I can wait to get it back so i can plug in and charge every night.

We have a Kuga PHEV - I rate it.

It has a 30ish mile range on electric only (claimed 35) and it's pretty close to that depending on how much you floor it.

We've no need to have two cars, so the hybrid suits us - electric for Mrs Dubs commute to school when she's not riding, hybrid for longer trips. Also, the fact that we have no driveway and charging infra round us is sketchy means we couldn't go full electric yet.

Even with the battery depleted, it gives good MPG as it's always recovering braking energy. We did a 20 mile trip back from the olds the other day and got 70mpg.

One of the next cars on my list of potentials is the Passat GTE. 1.4 petrol engine with an electric range of around 30 miles. My commute is 25ish, so could do it on pure electric. Quite a rural commute so plenty of braking for a bit of 'freewheeling' and brake re-gen.

For longer trips, which I don't do too many of. But you can put it on combined so it uses both petrol and electric. I think (don't quote me on this), but if using the satnav in the Passat, it will use the battery in a way that it will help you out for the whole distance of your journey.

Dont want to sound like the prophet of doom, but i worry that as more and more ‘go electric’ the price starts to rise for charging them. Got us over a barrel so to speak.

Unless you can mostly charge at home which is what I would do. Charging using a public fast charger is already expensive and not much cheaper than an efficient petrol or diesel car but that is not really the point.

Dont want to sound like the prophet of doom, but i worry that as more and more ‘go electric’ the price starts to rise for charging them. Got us over a barrel so to speak.

Of course they will do something at some point, something will have to replace fuel duty.

Public charge points will go up in price first.

I don't see them being able to increase the domestic electric price for charging at home. Maybe you'll need a license for your charger?

Once no more ICE cars can be bought they are free to increase annual VED on new cars.

Unless cars are instrumented with a government black box that monitors mileage, they have no per mile taxation option like they have now.

When it gonna happen? ten years at least?

Until that point you are going to be saving money. After that point you will likely be evens.

So go for it. The best years (cheapest) are behind us, but theres some saving to be made, and think of the environmental benefit.

I wouldn't bother with a hybrid unless I did lots of very short low speed journeys, school drop off, shops, short commute etc otherwise its the worst of both worlds, short range and poor fuel due to the weight.

I looked at the VW ID.3 – I quite like the external appearance but inside it is all plastic, very basic seats (with no lumber support), and more- it doesn’t even have speakers in the back! They have basically stripped out the nice features to make it more affordable – or so it seems.

I have an ID.3 and I was worried about it feeling too plastic inside but since owning it for 2.5 months, it feels more premium than expected.

Yes the basic model has no support or speakers in the rear, but my higher spec version does.

Dont want to sound like the prophet of doom, but i worry that as more and more ‘go electric’ the price starts to rise for charging them.

Hmm, dunno about that - competition will become pretty tight for public chargers.

I think they'll have to tax something else tbh. And of course they'll have to bring back BIK on company EVs after 2030 as there's no point incentivising something that's the only option.

The other thing to consider is that EVs are fantastic to drive.

I have a hybrid Corolla estate (not plug in). It gets much better mpg on rolling country lanes than on motorway journeys. The motorway is a bit too fast for the car to be able to really use electric only, but it uses the hybrid system as ‘boost’ on hills etc ( although not noticeable). Still gets good values though - around 60 on a journey. A gentle drive to school will be over 70. Urban driving is often better as almost all electric.

On my day to day driving, which is now mostly short runs to school / town it is currently getting 62mpg average on a tank.

The advantages for me are the low tax (although since 2020 they have gone up in emissions ratings) and that it was one of the few decent sized hybrid vehicles available at my company car lease allowance at the time. I was also regularly doing long work journeys at the time of ordering that would not have worked with the only BEV available to me, the Golf.

I've got a Mini Countryman S E PHEV company car and it's either the best of both worlds or worst of both depending on perspective.

Claimed EV range is 30 miles but it gets between 9-18 in the real world which is annoying as the office is 20 miles away, but I cycle mainly so not the end of the world.

Electric bill only went up about £10-15 a month with it being charged pretty much every evening.

It's crap on petrol and gets mid 30's mpg at best on longer motorway runs. Round town is better but that's just being supplemented by the EV stuff.

I personally wouldn't go hybrid agin and have ordered a full EV Skoda Enyaq to replace it, and will probably end up getting a diesel van to run as a second vehicle alongside when/if the van madness settles down.

I have a Merc A250e which has a battery range of around 44 miles. My work is 18 miles away, and I can get to and from work (at this time of year) on battery only with a few miles to spare. Really depends on traffic conditions, weather and temperature.

The battery is 10.6 kWh and my current electric cost is 17 pence per kWh, so a full charge is £1.80, which works out around 5p per mile.
Best consumption I’ve managed so far is 4.3 mpkWH which theoretically would give me a range of 45 miles, but as I say, it really depends on traffic and weather.

For longer journeys, yesterday I did a 140 mile round trip, used 2 gallons of petrol and all of my battery. So what’s that? Around £12 on fuel and say £2 electric. Overall works out a 10p per mile.

Hope this helps

EDIT

Most people do lots of short trips and a few long ones. PHEV works really well for this. If you do a random mix of medium to long trips then it won’t, but I suspect you’re in the minority.

Exactly why I have one ……. And the cheap co. Car tax 😃

We have some Aygos at work, they do 40+mpg everywhere, but I got that out of their predecessor i10s and more on long runs.

I would only want a plug in I think.

I don’t see them being able to increase the domestic electric price for charging at home. Maybe you’ll need a license for your charger?

Yeah,that sounds about right. Or a 2nd meter, charged at a different rate.
But by that time electricity production will be more renewable, ergo free to produce so its profit all the way for the energy companies(and their former politician directors)

That brave new world we are always speculating on, sure ain't for the masses.

Another Countryman PHEV here. It makes sense as a company car (from a tax point of view). Mine is 2019 model so electric range is poor (realistically 15 miles) but this actually works fine for us.

Absolutely empty to full charge is approximately 8kWh so you can do the maths based on your current tariff.

I charge off a 13A plug (older Countryman can't fast charge anyway so 13A is fine). Takes approx 3.5h to charge from empty to full.

On longer runs we tend to get 40-45 MPG.

But by that time electricity production will be more renewable, ergo free to produce so its profit all the way for the energy companies(and their former politician directors)

No such thing as a free lunch because physics.

On hybrids being pointless, maybe if people were binary and either only drove short or long journeys but they're not, and they don't. It also assumes everyone has ready access to a charger for a BEV, they don't.

No such thing as a free lunch because physics.

Never mind physics, basic mechanics and operating the grid means it'll never be free.

I had to have my permanent charging point removed (Moving house)

Wait, what?

I had to have my permanent charging point removed (Moving house)

Wait, what?

Sounds like he's moving house.

Iirc from previous threads his work installed the charging point at heavy discount so I imagine they are moving it to his new house.

I have a golf GTE hybtid and been running it for 6 months now.
To charge at night on Octopus go tarif costs about 15-20p, with that i can do part of the way to work and all the way back (about 20miles in total).
Mpg is usuall in the 50s but on a run its lower more like high 40's. Think the opposite to a desiel.
My fuel bill went from £120/ month (1.8 mk1 focus) to less than £50, but there is a big jump in engine technology between the two cars.

One thing to consider is maintenance, with the engine forever stop starting and often from cold to mid range revs the oil deteriates very quickly and you need to change it often.

Just for thought as much as i love my car if i the same position again id go for a mk2 leaf teckna with the heat exchanger instead of a heater, i have van that could be used for longer trips.

Mrs only really uses her car for work, 10 miles away, and loves her wee fiat 500 so much that she won't look at another car. Her next one will be a hybrid I reckon, unless electric 500 is a decent enough price.

Edit - scratch that, on further reading the 500 hybrid isn't really a hybrid at all, sounds pointless. Looks like I'll be needing a charging point installed then.

Sounds like he’s moving house.

Iirc from previous threads his work installed the charging point at heavy discount so I imagine they are moving it to his new house.

How much do the units themselves actually cost? Just seems like something I'd be including in the selling cost of the house rather than treating like an appliance.

About five hundred pounds. I don't know why they're so expensive because they're little more than a contactor with some smart switching in most cases - the expensive charging stuff is in the car. You can get the same power out from a 32A commando socket.

While you guys are all talking about the new BEVs, at some point they will become second/third and fourth hand. I worry about depreciation or rather I don't because I bought an old Leaf BEV that had depreciate to about 5K but the range was 35 miles tops. This is fine as a second car for short trips and I use it way more than I expected especially during lockdown even though it is a souless piece of s**t.

My point is that a 10 year 50,000 mile old 'normal' car might be a bit rattily but would still be capable of a good MPG and close to the original range. Why is it acceptable that a Leaf can drop from 120 mile range to 35 mile range over the same period and the only cost viable option is to scrap it and replace?

I am not sure 10 year life span will affect the first buyer but someone is going to get a LOT of depreciation.

He charges it overnight at home on a cheaper tariff and has worked out that it costs him £1.80 to do 180 miles. That’s right… £0.01 p/mile!

I’d take your friends figures with a MASSIVE dose of salt. 180miles for £1.80 sounds too good to be true to me. Even with an economy 7 tarif at around 8p/kWh, that means 25kWh to do 180miles. Assuming a lot of his miles are motorway miles, this becomes even more unrealistic. Based on those figures a Tesla model 3 Long Range with a 75kWh battery pack would do 540 miles on a charge. In reality, it’ll scrape 300.

It’s probably not far off, I’ve recently changed from a 330e hybrid to a model 3 sr +. On octopus go, 5p kw/h to charge, £2.50 for around 210 miles, about 1.4p a mile.

Will increase when I go back to 400 mile round trips and have to pay more at superchargers, but can see that only being a couple of times a month.

Had a 330e phew before and that was about £1 to charge on standard tarif and got between 10 to 18 miles range depending on weather and preconditioning. Was good for nipping round town and commuting 6 miles.

Did charge nearly everyday but main bonus was saving £200 a month on co car tax vs a similar diesel.

Chris

@worldclassaccident

No doubt a second tier economy will develop where people will be repairing battery packs, these folk already exist but it will become more commonplace. Usually its defective cells which can be easily tested and replaced.

We have some Aygos at work, they do 40+mpg everywhere

I have had Aygos for years. My current 2018 model typically does 60MPG and the worst I have ever done over a full tank is 56mpg. Moving to electric is going to reduce my costs so minimally that it is not worth bothering for that reason but that is not the point is it?