[Closed] Daughter got christened - Unknown to me

you know that when your ex gets your daughters passport for the holiday you'll never see it again?

I know that - if I apply for her passport and I have it in my legal possession can she apply for a duplicate?

if I apply for her passport and I have it in my legal possession can she apply for a duplicate?

not unless your daughter has a job that requires two - unlikely.

Ive just jumped through the hoops required to get two.

You can get two passports if you can demonstrate enough reason.

I would use the birth certificate as bargaining chip but do it through a solicitor and do it sensibly and in a cool, civilised manner keeping a record of everything. Stupid behaviour will not earn you any favours when it comes to a legal battle at any time in the future.

What a terribly sad state of affairs. I don't really have much practical advice sorry, other than asking is there any way the two of you can enter some kind of mediation to try and work through your problems? It's going to be very bad for the kid to have constant feuding like this throughout growing up. 🙁

maybe part of an agreement for access can be that the passport is returned to a third party after each trip by you or your ex?

I was thinking of using the passport to get a proper legal agreement with a solicitor about access?

how about getting proper legal agreement with a solicitor irrespective of passports?

ouch, sorry to hear about your situation! not going to pretend to be knowledgeable enough about this to give any advice but mrsconsequence is good with this kinda thing, will forward her a link and if she's got time today she'll hopefully check it out and post.

Can't begin to understand what it's like but I think there are two main choices, either play your ex at her own game and get the passport for 'leverage' or seek mediation as soon as possible to get something amicable and official sorted out.

Personally I can't see the passport thing going well, it will make your ex more belligerent and probably make the whole thing more stressful.

$0.02

Your ex will be able to get a certified copy of the birth certificate from the registrar. Passport not going to be a lever. You need proper legal advice.

As for christening, don't sweat it. It's a bit of mumbo jumbo that means as much to her now as it will when she's grown up to be a rational agnostic...sweet eff all 🙂 and you managed to dodge the most knacker twisting dirge the church could ever have invented.

Mediation is not an option I have tried that but she has dismissed it!

I agree that the passport thing may make things worse so I'm being very careful at the minute. She does not know that I have her birth certificate at the minute but she will do soon when she tries to look for it to apply for her passport.

All I want is to have reasonable access to my daughter. My ex has already told me i can't have her overnight until she is a year old - then she will probably move the goalposts again so I am always being controlled.

I know I can go to court, but that costs money and I can't afford it as I'm paying rent and half a mortgage!

Quite honestly I think my ex is worried I'm going to have a good relationship with my daughter - unlike my ex's other kids & respective fathers who she lags off in front of her other kids!

Thanks to STW massive for the responses

Stoner - Yes the christening is a farce! My ex just wanted a day out to take some pics of my daughter looking pretty and getting pissed. Nothing to do with god then!

ouch, sorry to hear about your situation! not going to pretend to be knowledgeable enough about this to give any advice but mrsconsequence is good with this kinda thing, will forward her a link and if she's got time today she'll hopefully check it out and post.

Very kind, Thanks

Er... she's got other kids by different fathers?

So what does she get from these other fathers towards the upkeep of herself and her kids?

It is not that difficult to get a copy of a Birth Certificate.

Then next time you have the chance get your daughtered inducted into some other religion.

for a proper laugh you should read the utter ****tish gibberish that are the words of the service itself:
http://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/book-of-common-prayer/public-baptism-of-infants.aspx

load of hooey.

WE yield thee hearty thanks, most merciful Father, that it hath pleased thee to regenerate this Infant with thy Holy Spirit, to receive him for thine own Child by adoption, and to incorporate him into thy holy Church. And humbly we beseech thee to grant that he being dead unto sin, and living unto righteousness, and being buried with Christ in his death, may crucify the old man, and utterly abolish the whole body of sin; and that, as he is made partaker of the death of thy Son, he may also be partaker of his resurrection; so that finally, with the residue of thy holy Church, he may be an inheritor of thine everlasting kingdom; through Christ our Lord.

I'd suggest sorting the passport and giving it to your ex as a token of goodwill. Perhaps this could open the door to her being more receptive to your needs? it seems to me that 'bargaining tools' in situations like this would most likely lead to more animosity between parties.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong.

Mediation is not an option I have tried that but she has dismissed it!

...

I know I can go to court, but that costs money and I can't afford it as I'm paying rent and half a mortgage!

Get yourself down to Citizens Advice asap in that case. Did she say why she didn't want mediation?

globalti - Member
Er... she's got other kids by different fathers?

So what does she get from these other fathers towards the upkeep of herself and her kids?

about £700 a month in maintenance!

Stoner, they're opening themselves up to failing to deliver benefits as stated under contract... if that child fails to inherit the Kingdom of god I'd be straight onto a lawyer.

I think applying for a passport will pee off the ex even more...

She is really taking advantage of having your daughter though and legally I think she should have consulted you before making the religious decision. It's so rubbish that going to court costs so much money when you're not on benefits... Are you paying mortgage on house she lives in and your own rent?!

If you have PR, could try not returning your daughter and tell her go to court for access.. No bad advice. But legally she can't control access if there is no legal order in place stating she had residency or custody.

Please note I have no extensive legal training, just experience through work with contact orders - usually violence in relationship so different situation. But women can be absolute psychos in these situations. Perhaps fathers for justice may have a helpline or something??

I'd not be handing the kid back next time. Sorry, probably against all the rules, but at this point surely its no different to what she's doing (assuming there has been no legal agreemnent in place at this point).
Get a good solicitor & record everything. Make sure the mother has access, but on your terms.

Focus on what is important - ie time with your daughter, might mean biting your lip & being a doormat for a while / foreseeable future but I can't see trying to use your daughters passport as a lever going very well. Really hope you can work this one out.

he may be an inheritor of thine everlasting kingdom

Do you have to pay inheritance tax on that?

ex's other kids & respective fathers

I hope you sort things out but it sounds like you have been shafted.

I have just found out Freya got christened yesterday form a mutual friend! WTF Im not very happy about this as none of my family were invited, I am totally against being it as well. My parents are incredibly upset

I think I can figure out why you and none of your family were invited, you might be able to too if you think about it ?

To be fair you don't come across as a particularly reasonable person, apparently you are totally against the christening on the grounds that it means nothing.

[i][b]"she needs me to help out looking after Freya"[/b][/i]

I doubt very much that you are the only person your ex can find to look after her 6 month old daughter........I reckon you are probably kidding yourself.

I also doubt that she is completely unreasonable at every given opportunity as you appear to suggest, whilst you on the other hand, represent the paragon of sensibility and restraint .......... relationships in life are rarely if ever that simple. Also you trying to pull the birth certificate stroke is a bit of a give-away.

Take it to court and go for the jugular. Unfortunately the only way to go.

I'd not be handing the kid back next time

Whatever you do, do not do this. Its a terrible situation you're in, and I feel for you, but play it by the book. speak to a solicitor and see where you stand, don't stoop to her level. chin up!

What was that all about Ernie? Completely needless.

What was that all about Ernie? Completely needless.

+1

+2

Sorry I didn't stick to the rule which states that in such circumstances, all posters must agree with the OP.

But I'm funny like that - breaking the rules that is .......surely you must have noticed before ?

Think ernie was being pretty harsh but there is probably some truth to this bit...

I also doubt that she is completely unreasonable at every given opportunity as you appear to suggest, whilst you on the other hand, represent the paragon of sensibility and restraint .......... relationships in life are rarely if ever that simple.

The passpeot is a red herring - forget it. It's trivial and peevish - rise above it and don't do it.

Find a way to get proper advice and enforceable access. Whilst doing this, get the financial situation formalised as well. If you ex is gettiung contributions from other dads, your contribution may be impacted by that.

Just to put this in perspective and I'm sorry if it causes offence, but older member of this forum will be shocked that the ex seems to have several children by different fathers and will conclude that her agenda is to get as much money out of the fathers and the State as possible in order to finance her lifestyle. Whether this is down to cunning or ****lessness is impossible to know but it doesn't bode well for the future of the OP's relationship with his ex or their child. She will be well advised by friends in similar situations and the OP will need a good solicitor and lots of cash if he is to get access to his daughter. Even a legal agreement will be almost impossible to enforce because human behaviour doesn't usually comply with bits of paper.

To be smugly patronising for a second younger members of the forum will probably just think the ex's selfish lifestyle choice is "kewl".

Sorry.

You need to be 100% honest with yourself about the situation, what Ernie is getting at is that there is always two sides to every story.

My ex, 18 years ago, had our son named Jamie, I wanted him named James, maybe she did it to spite me, so what, he's still my son. To be fair I'd spent most of the pregnancy acting like a tw.t. Spent the next 15 years just about getting along but falling our pretty regularly, guess who suffered the most from our animosity?

Don't play games, don't try to control the situation, just focus on doing the best for your daughter, the relationship with your ex will improve if you don't try to force her to do what you want but it might take time, years.

Be on time, ask ex what daughter needs (clothing etc) rather than just handing over cash, if your ex is being a bitch then just smile and ignore, don't let her or your daughter see any frustration. It will get easier and the most important thing is that you are there for your daughter.

Explore the advice you can get from CAB, knowledge can give you confidence which will help reduce frustration, but don't use it as a lever against your ex as she will just resent it.

Keep calm.

To be smugly patronising for a second younger members of the forum will probably just think the ex's selfish lifestyle choice is "kewl"

You what?

I would go down the court route now.

If you are getting accused of neglecting the babies needs (sleep/food) etc then just start keeping a diary of each day and give her a copy each day. I believe its common among childminders.

Then if she starts complaining of tiredness you can refer her back to the diary of the day. I can't really see how she can diagnose what is wrong from a crying baby and point the finger at you without knowing whats gone on during the day. Ideally she would do the same for you, otherwise you will you know if she didn't feed properly earlier in the day?

If it goes a step further and she accuses you of neglect to prevent access/overnight stays, at least you have built up some evidence in your favour.

Don't play games, don't try to control the situation, just focus on doing the best for your daughter, the relationship with your ex will improve if you don't try to force her to do what you want but it might take time, years.

Be on time, ask ex what daughter needs (clothing etc) rather than just handing over cash, if your ex is being a bitch then just smile and ignore, don't let her or your daughter see any frustration. It will get easier and the most important thing is that you are there for your daughter.

I agree with all of this!!

I have been in this situation where my ex tried very hard to use the kids as a weapon to get at me when we separated (after she had an affair). I stuck to my guns and had the kids at the agreed times and days, if she had a strop and said i couldn't see them guaranteed the next time i was due to have them she was texting asking what time i was picking them up.

Take the moral high ground and try to be as helpful as possible, i know you must feel pretty angry/upset at the moment but you have to concentrate not to overreact at the slightest decision she makes without consulting you.

And don't get wound up regarding the Christening, most times no one cares about getting this done, only if pressured by grandparents.

Don't involve a solictor unless you have loads of cash that you are looking to chuck away on a regular basis, you being calmer and more helpful will achieve much better/cheaper results.

Proper advice!

For the next few months - suck everything else up, play her game, be mr super helpful always offering to look after her while ex goes shopping/goes out for an evening with the girls, bend over backwards to help and raise a fuss about nothing, bite your lip and play the long game, however pissed off you get over it.

During this time - get a diary - write down every time you see Freya, everything that you do for her, what money you spend and what you did with her.

Then, when you've got a nice catalogue that shows your current level of contact (the status quo) hit her with an application for a court order, meaning that you've secured contact plans for the longer term. self represent, its not worth solicitors for a simple contact order (expect claims of all sorts, domestic violence, harassment, etc, etc - this can be happily disproven by your diary of contact)

Are you still paying the mortgage on the house she lives in? If so this is likely to be above and beyond the amount of maitenance.

Could you not inform her you will stop paying the mortgage and only give her what she is legally entitled to unless she agrees to mediation?
It may sound like blackmail but realistically if she refuses to dicuss things like adults then you'll need every penny you can to go down the court route.

It might give her the kick in the ass she needs.

Look on the bright side - at least your daughter is going to heaven, even if the mother isn't.

Don't play games, don't try to control the situation, just focus on doing the best for your daughter, the relationship with your ex will improve if you don't try to force her to do what you want but it might take time, years.

Good advice, that.

ernie_lynch - Member
Sorry I didn't stick to the rule which states that in such circumstances, all posters must agree with the OP.

Agree with what? He asked for advice not judgement based on your weird supposition. I have no idea what it's like but gave my opinion based on a bit of cold detachment which is needed in situations like this.

But I'm funny like that - breaking the rules that is .......surely you must have noticed before ?

And the Stranglers said there were no more heroes.

He asked for advice not judgement based on your weird supposition.

What "weird supposition" is that ? The one that the OP's ex might not be a totally unreasonable woman who is a terrible mother to her children ?

Well I'm assuming the OP also didn't think that until at least last Christmas ......otherwise why did he have a child with her ?

You might think that the best way to help the OP is to tell him everything he wants to hear, and to reinforce his perceptions, but I don't necessarily agree with you, hope that's ok - although apparently it's not. Neither do I believe that it's necessarily the best thing for the child involved.

Don't entertain any of her petty games and always try to remain calm.

My ex ran off with my 2 year old son Harry. 6 weeks after, I found that she'd left me because she'd been sleeping with my supervisor from work.
I lost everything and even now I don't get to see my son.

18 months on, and I can honestly say that I feel better without her in my life. Miss my little boy like crazy, but I know that she'll make things as hard as possible for me to see him.
Like you, I don't have the money for expensive court battles etc and I believe that he'll come to me when he's older.

First port of call is get down to Citizens Advice... and maybe go speak to a solicitor.

Good luck and keep your chin up.

Agree with previous posters about trying to be helpful and remaining calm but keeping a record. I would also make an effort with her others kids as they are your daughter's brothers/sisters. Presumably they once lived with you? If you can have genuine relationships with them (birthday/xmas presents, occasional trips out when your daughter is older) then you will probably get on better with your ex and your daughter will be with people who view you in a positive light.

It is very easy to give this advice - in your shoes I would be polishing my Bombers!

Freya is not a "Christian" christian-name, it harps back to Old Norse Mythology.
Is that part of the problem?
Are you anti the Christian religion and has your ex partner overidden your beliefs and pushed your daughter into the Church's clutches?

If so, I know the feeling.

Not that I can provide an answer, just keep the contact going no matter what obstacles are put in your way and try and do the best you can for your child.

It might be an idea to give helpful objective advice to the OP rather than turning it into yet another STW fight where the OP's questions are forgotten.

For me there are three sides to most stories. Yours. Mine. And somewhere between those two, lies the truth.

Oh and to be fair, if I was the OP, I'd expect to be informed of something like a christening - not because I'm a shouty atheist, but I'd still like to know.

If she's as horrible as the OP suggests, then doing these kind of things and not informing you is mostly to make herself feel better - and the OP's getting wound up about it will only add fuel to her flames.

Remain calm. Be a good dad. Realise that generally the law will be better if you don't start kicking up all kinds of shit whenever anything happens.

Conflict between you is ultimately water of your backs but will remain with the child forever.

Remain calm. Be a good dad. Realise that generally the law will be better if you don't start kicking up all kinds of shit whenever anything happens.

Good simple advice. And try to behave a bit less like the ranting loon you appeared to be in your first post.

Agrees with DD and several other posters who thinks the person with a level head in all of this will come out of it better (in the long run) than someone trying to get at the ex rather than move on.

I really couldn't imagine a worse thing to happen to anyone though 🙁

ernie_lynch - Member
What "weird supposition" is that ? The one that the OP's ex might not be a totally unreasonable woman who is a terrible mother to her children ?

Where has he said she's a terrible mother? See what I mean?

Well I'm assuming the OP also didn't think that until at least last Christmas ......otherwise why did he have a child with her ?

Relationships changing shocker

You might think that the best way to help the OP is to tell him everything he wants to hear, and to reinforce his perceptions

Where did I do that?

Why don't you stick with the issues raised by the OP Lifer ? .....instead of trying to start an argument between me and you.

Assuming you're on the birth certificate you have legal parental responsibility.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/ParentsRights/DG_4002954

Parental Responsibility, amongst other things, includes:

[b]determining the religion of the child[/b]

You should have been consulted.

Didn't we go through all of this about a month ago when SBrock told everyone on here that his ex was going to get his daughter christened?
Including the religious arguments... 🙄

determining the religion of the child

Perhaps the OP could convert her to Islam - that would nark off the mother.

Yeah. Just give her a nice headscarf to wear, tell her it's the Jackie-O look and watch her mother freak out.

OP's daughter earlier...
[img] [/img]

getting a child christened is a choice that should be made by both parents. for your ex to go ahead and do this behind your back is bang out of order and demonstrates she is not respecting your rights as a parent.

I imagine the legal route is the only option with someone like this and recommend you look into this ASAP.

aP - Member

Didn't we go through all of this about a month ago when SBrock told everyone on here that his ex was going to get his daughter christened?

Yep, I quick search reveals that it's the same guy. And whilst today he's claiming "Daughter got christened - Unknown to me" and "I have just found out Freya got christened" it couldn't have come as quite the complete surprise which he seems to suggest, as he knew it was going to happen at least a month ago.

Also there appears to be inconsistencies in the time lines. 4 weeks ago he said "Me and her mother have split up when she was 4 months old, I left the house that we both owned as she has other kids".

So if he walked out on her mother at Christmas when she was 4 months old, then she'll be about 9 months old now. Which on the plus side means that in about another 3 months he'll be able to have her stay with him overnight, as according to him "my ex says she can't stay overnight until she is 1". A perfect reasonable and understandable attitude imo btw.

Ernie - are you suggesting it is an understandable attitude not to allow the child to stay with the father until she is 1 year old?

Yep.

Overnight that is.

Why would that be?

Miss my little boy like crazy, but I know that she'll make things as hard as possible for me to see him.
Like you, I don't have the money for expensive court battles etc and I believe that he'll come to me when he's older.

Can you not get legal aid? At the moment it may look to a court that you just aren't making any effort to see your son. And unfortunately he may see it the same way later on.

There's some good advice in this thread, it's up to the OP to try and follow that advice. Do nothing and the situation won't change, you'll just become more frustrated.

Why would that be?

Because I can't see any benefits for a child less than 12 months old to stay away from her mother overnight.

Plus I reckon it would be an exceptional woman who would [i]willingly[/i] allow her less than 12 month baby stay with the man who walked out on her at Christmas. In fact I might even question her commitment to her child, if she was that keen on the proposition.

Of course you might not agree with me, and of course I'm basing my comments on the little that I know. But since I'm unlikely to hear her side of the story, I'm ok with that.

Because I can't see any benefits for a child less than 12 months old to stay away from her mother overnight

Now would it?

Whatever happened to the relationship between the mother and father is irrelevant as he is still the father of the child, that will never change and he has a right to spend time with her.

Because I can't see any benefits for a child less than 12 months old to stay away from her mother overnight.

but the child wouldn't be any worse off if she didn't stay with her mum overnight, would she?

It might not be detrimental to the child, but it would probably be more detrimental to the mother's health, when the baby is just a few months old, than the father's.

I can't see a problem with the mother saying the child can stay with the father, but not overnight until she is 12 plus months old. Seems perfectly reasonable to me .........what did the father think - leaving was going to be a bed of roses in which he would get everything he wanted ?

but it would probably be more detrimental to the mother's health, when the baby is just a few months old, than the father's

Do you have children Ernie?

Or are you just trying to make pointless claims in order to cause an argument?

Do you have children Ernie?

And there we have it.

In fairness, it was only a matter of time.

are you just trying to make pointless claims in order to cause an argument?

Busted. There's no "pulling the wool over your eyes" eh ?

And here's me thinking you had idiotic views about parental rights and responsibilities.

Turns out you are just an idiot.

Turns out you are just an idiot.

Well it's taken you over 2 years to come to that conclusion, so perhaps I was being generous with the "no pulling the wool over your eyes" comment .......what do you reckon ?

BTW, top marks for putting your point over in such a forceful and intelligent manner.

I agree Ernie - if you have spent the last two years posting in such a manner you must be an Übertroll beyond compare.

I doff my hat to you, congratulations, your parents must be very proud.

You're too generous.

Get a room you two!

The room marked 'The new person for me to brand a cock after I realised that, handled properly, Surrounded by Zulus is actually okay and even Tandem Jeremy has his moments'*?

It might not be detrimental to the child,

but it would probably be more detrimental to the mother's health, when the baby is just a few months old, than the father's.