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One of my daughters (yr 10 so first year of her GCSEs) is in the top set in maths and has always done well – usually gets 8s (with a 9 being the highest available) in her CATS and 'exceptional' attitude to learning and has always had glowing reports from her teachers.
However, she 'only' got a 7 in her last CAT (there was a particular subject she just didn't get to grips with that had never been covered before) and she's suddenly been told she's moving down a set (her teacher told her she didn't actually agree with the decision). We all feel pretty frustrated about this as she has never had her performance flagged, she's not been given a chance to improve (her twin sister gets additional maths tutoring so we could have had her join in if we knew of any concern) yet she's been moved down (apparently because there is someone in the set below who is doing well and they need to make space for him).
We just feel that disrupting her like this when she is in her GCSE years could have an effect on her performance and we just feel annoyed that the decision has been made with no discussion (we, as parents, haven't been contacted about it).
Am I over-reacting?
Can you go in and have a chat with the teacher?
+1 on speak to teacher.
Yes I have already emailed the head of maths (who made the decision) – her teacher wasn't even part of the discussion apparently.
+1 on speak to the teacher.
Happened to my lad as he was going into year 11, didn't do as well as he should have done on his first mock that they did end of year 10 and got moved down, his own fault really but we'd have pushed him a bit more if thought there was a chance of him getting moved down. I wish we'd have pushed harder to try and get back in the top set. We were assured he should still be on for his predicited mark and the drop down won't affect him. He was going for 7/8, and it has affected him though. I think if he was still in top set he would be going for an 8, but now he is going for a 7 with a danger of only getting a 6.
I know a 6 is still supposed to be a B, but nowadays as the emphasis is all on 8's and 9's it isn't really, and he needs a 7 to get onto the maths A level course at the college he wants to go to. No A-levels at his school so has to move to a college.
That happened to me. Got dropped to a lower class the teacher was a grade a disgrace, religious zealot who just stood at the front passing judgment. I told him to **** off. Got kicked out to sit in the department heads class.
Got a B, most of a degree in it, and a whole degree in engineering.
What was the difficult subject?
I've always felt really sorry for HoDs in subjects that set - it's a miserable job.
Obviously have that chat, the most sensible thing to do.
and ‘exceptional’ attitude to learning
My only caveat is that great attitude and effort can be brilliant at masking actual ability and there are natural stages in education where kids/students get "found out" and their brilliant attitude is no longer enough and they need a teaching strategy with less assumptions of 'getting it first time' and a more turn by turn approach. A term or so into maths A level is a classic one. GCSE less so, but it's still a thing. Dropping does not necessarily mean a drop in teaching standards - sometimes quite the reverse. A lot of HoDs will use their best teachers on 2nd set as that's where the magic happens - turning marginal grades into great grades. Top set is often taught by busy people elsewhere in the school (the assistant head etc) as it's seen as a comparatively easy workload.
My thoughts would be stop pestering the teachers and let them do their jobs.
If you're bothered about her grades then get her some tutoring.
But really, a slightly different grade in a single GCSE means sweet FA in the grand scheme of things. Plenty of people graduate from oxbridge and can't actually land a decent job...
Also, chronic stress is really not a good state of being. This is probably going to be the most stressful period of her entire life - there's no need to make it any harder than it has to be.
My only caveat is that great attitude and effort can be brilliant at masking actual ability and there are natural stages in education where kids/students get “found out” and their brilliant attitude is no longer enough and they need a teaching strategy with less assumptions of ‘getting it first time’ and a more turn by turn approach. A term or so into maths A level is a classic one. GCSE less so, but it’s still a thing. Dropping does not necessarily mean a drop in teaching standards – sometimes quite the reverse. A lot of HoDs will use their best teachers on 2nd set as that’s where the magic happens – turning marginal grades into great grades. Top set is often taught by busy people elsewhere in the school (the assistant head etc) as it’s seen as a comparatively easy workload.
plus 1 for this.
I got found out at university (engineering). Uni level maths I could not grasp at all.
If you’re bothered about her grades then get her some tutoring.
I think you need to read my post...
'she has never had her performance flagged, she’s not been given a chance to improve (her twin sister gets additional maths tutoring so we could have had her join in if we knew of any concern)'
Now my GCSEs were over 25 years ago, but back then, being in anything other than top set meant an A grade wasn't possible. Is that still the case? What is the actual impact of changing group?
Mate and I both dropped fri A set french to B set french voluntarily as we got on better with that teacher.
First question, will it affect exam results? Second question, if it does affect exam results, what's the actual impact on the grand plan?
If I had my time again, I'd not waste it in A levels and a degree.
(The degree got me into this industry but I'd probably be further ahead and have a lot more money behind me if I'd come in at ground level and worked up).
A lot of HoDs will use their best teachers on 2nd set as that’s where the magic happens
Definitely this. There is no way I'd have done as well in Higher English if I'd not been in the B set.
Assuming she's not really a budding maths/science star (which I'm guessing is unlikely from the 8s and a 7) I really don't see that dropping a grade in one subject is likely to impact her life much one way or the other.
If she's really in love with science stuff and looks like she's heading that way for a career then it might be worth fighting a bit harder for.
Little bit over reacting imho. Teachers just doing their job. My kids were moved down and up sets over their school years. Don't think it ended up limited them. Have a chat and see what they say.
If she’s really in love with science stuff and looks like she’s heading that way for a career then it might be worth fighting a bit harder for.
Or she could do better next test or whenever, with extra coaching if now wanted and move up on merit, much as the kid who is taking her place appears to be doing.
Are kids heading for careers at 14 nowadays?
I get that she's not going to be the next Stephen Hawkins, but there is more to being dropped a set than just grades - friendship groups, fear of failure (this is exactly what she sees it as) etc. I won't go into the complex issues she has, but moving sets will hurt her mentally (and the school is very well aware of her ongoing anxiety issues).
We could accept it if she wasn't good enough to be in the top set, but she is – it's the result of just one test that has resulted in this decision. Surely at this point, it should have been a 'look, you didn't do very well in the last CAT, is there anything we can do? Is there anything in particular you are struggling with? If you continue to struggle, we feel it would be best for you to drop a set'.
Speak to the HoD
My lad is the year below yours and was moved from top set English to middle. Its actually helped him not being around kids who enjoy reading if you get what I mean. Already been told he will be back in top set for start of GCSEs as he obviously just needed a confidence booster
However, in GCSE years I would defo be asking. Being in a lower group could mean the teacher has less time to help OPs child as there are others with greater needs, or others that want to disrupt.
But really, a slightly different grade in a single GCSE means sweet FA in the grand scheme of things.
Depends what you are aspiring to after school IMO. Perhaps those people that you mention coming out of Oxford and dont get jobs are the ones that were not that diligent and didnt get top marks?
*Speak to the HoD*
Yes I already emailed him and waiting on a response.
A '7' grade is an 'A', is it not?
Seems like an odd decision in those circumstances. Having said that, while being in the top set is an advantage if you can keep up, I remember the pace of learning being frantic due to the ridiculous difficulty and extent of the curriculum (stuff I remember from A level popping up at GCSE).
It's possible that there will be less chance that topics will be revisited to make sure everyone is 'getting' them - top set will also be possibly working to cram in the possibility of Further Maths at GCSE (!), so it's something for parents to be mindful of if their kid is towards the lower ability end of the top set.
Well yes I was certainly heading for a science/maths career by that age and getting knocked back in a relevant subject would have potentially changed my direction. OTOH despite being quite near the top of the year generally I really didn't care about going down a set in history or geography or something like that, it was just another line on the list of results and getting a couple of Bs in those subjects just didn't register. I think I got a B in history and dropped geo completely, but that was all irrelevant by the time A-levels started let alone later in my life.
If she's so fragile that such a minor knock is a serious problem for her, then that's the issue to address, because that will only get worse as she progresses. There were quite a few who really struggled at uni when they started to get more significantly challenged.
The biggest impact for me would be changing friendship group and fitting a different class dynamic. I’m 49 now, but remember being moved down a set in maths at 13 and not liking the new class dynamics at all, which was everything to do with the people and nothing to do with the teacher. It’s maths, so it wasn’t just one lesson a week…
I worked hard to get back up and managed it, and I was much happier back amongst my friends.
I’d love to be able to go back to my 13 year old self and tell him the grade or set makes very little difference, but my 13 year old self would probably tell me he just wanted to be happy at school.
If you can discuss it, and keep her in the set I would. Assuming of course, she doesn’t feel under pressure trying to keep up…
It happened to my daughter. Luckily, the teacher for the middle set was truly excellent, really loved maths, really nice guy. He helped her to find her learning style and she ended up with a 9.
+669734434, speak to the teacher. We had something similar (but going the other way, over-achieving in set 2 at every single stage and someone else in a similar position got bumped up but Noel didn't). Quick chat to the teacher, they admitted that something was wrong and the next week he was in set 1 where he continues to smash it. I don't envy teachers at all (wife was a teacher and loads of friends and family are) but with 30 kids to teach every hour during 9 til 3, they're bound to make the odd mistake but in my experience are very open to admitting to it. After all, its in their interest for kids to excel......
What are you going to do if the overall feeling from the school is that she should move a set, which is hardly the end of the world? It might be worth spending some time preparing for that
Reality is, if the lad below is doing better, is it fair on him to be top of that class and no chance of moving up, will his parents be happy that he's being held back because someone in the upper class doesn't want to move down?
It's a problem that's created at the outset with this approach to classes in schools, when i was at school it was horrific as there was no real fairness, grades were just part of it, things like societal class came into it back then, which was embarrassing looking back.
Talk to school and get a tutor for a little while to steady the ship on the stuff she’s not confident in.
My thoughts would be stop pestering the teachers and let them do their jobs.
Didn't read past this drivel. You're supposed to fart out of your arse.. What an idiotic thing to say. Breaking News for you; Teachers aren't always right.
*If she’s so fragile that such a minor knock is a serious problem for her, then that’s the issue to address, because that will only get worse as she progresses.*
We are dealing with that as best we can - it is very, very hard (she is having therapy).
*How does your daughter feel about it? Surely the most important consideration.*
It is difficult to know as she shuts down lots (see above).
*What are you going to do if the overall feeling from the school is that she should move a set, which is hardly the end of the world? *
When (if) I get to speak the the head of year, if they can give a fair explanation, then we will accept it. I am not going to kick off big time, but we feel let down by a total lack of communication from the school (as I said in my OP, we haven't even been officially told about it, we have never, not once been told of any concerns about her performance, it just came completely out of the blue.
I got found out at university (engineering). Uni level maths I could not grasp at all.
They ran a remedial maths course in the first term of my Engineering degree.
Revisited an entire A-Level in pure and applied mathematics in 10-12 weeks. Number of people who had obviously learnt the bare minimum to get an A-Level passing grade was surprising.
If I had my time again, I’d not waste it in A levels and a degree.
(The degree got me into this industry but I’d probably be further ahead and have a lot more money behind me if I’d come in at ground level and worked up).
Unless you've only graduated in the last few weeks, there are an absolute shed load of career doors that have been pretty much permanently closed in the last couple of decades unless you have a degree.
A ‘7’ grade is an ‘A’, is it not?
It is but that wont be good enough to get you on to some degree courses.
Although not a nice situation for Ops daughter, hopefully this will help her cope with knock backs that she gets as an adult if she can learn to deal with it now. (unfortunately that sort of life learning doesnt count in qualifications !
+669734434, speak to the teacher.
There's your problem, teacher lives in Thailand.
Hopefully the HoD can communicate and explain the decision and come to an agreement. I agree with the others to think of it as potentially getting extra tuition or different ways of teaching the same things, whereas the top set might not be getting as much explanation. The set they are in shouldn't really affect a grade, unless it limits the paper they are put forward for (?), in that the subject matter is the same, but I can appreciate the disruption if she was in a friendship group in that class but not others and/or change in teacher and teaching style. I would emphasise that maths is like a language and it builds on bases, fundamentals. So if she does want to do something science-y then there is an element of just getting on with getting up to speed on that one subject she struggled with. Whether that be inside or outside of school. Sorry.
I am amazed / appalled at the comment that a college could refuse entry to a fundamental A level (i.e. maths or English). I would have thought any state school or college must allow people on the course as long as they meet the national minimum requirement (maths and English grade 4 and three other GCSEs at 4 or higher). It seems immensely limiting.
Maybe there are kids in the lower set that need to move up to be stretched and your kid is the least able in the top set and possibly shouldn't be there.
Keeping in mind there are class size constraints.
I went from bottom set to top set in French at GCSE. It happens.
*Maybe there are kids in the lower set that need to move up to be stretched and your kid is the least able in the top set and possibly shouldn’t be there.*
Absolutely may be the case, but, aside from her last CAT (that is just one test in her 3.5 years at the school), she has always been towards the top (in the CAT before, she was one point off a 9) and we have had no explanation at all. I honestly think they just decided to pick her as her sister is in the other class and assumed she'd be happy with the move TBH.
"Breaking News for you; Teachers aren’t always right."
No but they do know the processes within the department and maybe this shift is because the lad in the class below deserves the bump up and, well someone has to bump down.
But I know from experience that parents will always assume they are right in the beginning, which is understandable as they are worried about their child whereas on a busy day I would have 100+ to think about.
As has been stated above mistakes do happen and hopefully OPs daughter can gain the marks she deserves.
Didn’t read past this drivel. You’re supposed to fart out of your arse.. What an idiotic thing to say. Breaking News for you; Teachers aren’t always right.
Seems somewhat entitled.
Shocker: I don't know any teacher who is not working damn hard to do the best by all their pupils. And decisions like this are not made lightly. As convert says, there can be positives for the move AND good reasons.
*As convert says, there can be positives for the move AND good reasons.*
Absolutely (I have already accepted this may well be the case), but her own teacher wasn't consulted, doesn't agree with the decision and, despite my reaching out to the HoD and offering to meet him in person, we haven't heard from them so we don't know what any 'good reason' may look like.
👍
Long time ago now but I got an A in O level maths despite being in the second set and I think that was largely due to the teacher (head of Maths) challenging me. I was one of the best three in the set and we all got A grades - the top set only managed four A's in total.
Assuming say five minimum Maths classes in a year the second set should comprise of reasonably intelligent and motivated kids.
I would guess that on your daughters part this may be more about the social impact of being moved down that concern about teaching standards? Is she the only one being moved? - if yes then that is understandably going to be hard for her.
Is she the only one being moved? – if yes then that is understandably going to be hard for her.
Two are being moved down – 'coincidentally', it is her best friend that is being moved with her. I am of the belief they made the decision based on what they thought would have least impact rather than who was under-performing (she certainly wasn't as her lowest ever grade was still equivalent to a Grade A GCSE) and the fact they didn't even consult her teacher is very suspicious. We'll wait to see what the HoD has to say when he responds to my email.
How's her friend doing grades wise? Might it be a case of friend going and trying to lessen the impact of that on your daughter? So unfortunately the distress is an unfortunate outcome of someone trying to do the right thing. Recently seen moves like this and it's been guidance/pastoral driven that have happened with no discussion. (I'm a Faculty Head).
Tough one I know - seems a bit harsh if it's one topic and the first time she's faltered, but if you are setting and the "top 30" go in the top set, if she's now ranked 31 she'll have to fight her way back up with extra work if necessary.
On a parallel thread is a parent saying their son is being blocked from moving up to the top set by a girl who performed worse than him in a test.
I got an A at O level maths, somehow scraped a D at A level. I'd hit my limit.
"I am of the belief they made the decision based on what they thought would have least impact rather than who was under-performing"
In your view, would this validate the decision? And are you concerned that she couldn't hit her full potential from the lower group?
**How’s her friend doing grades wise? Might it be a case of friend going and trying to lessen the impact of that on your daughter? So unfortunately the distress is an unfortunate outcome of someone trying to do the right thing.**
Historically similar to my daughter I believe (but the whole class is very similar in level, with just a couple that regularly get almost perfect scores). As I have said, her own teacher doesn't agree with the decision so I feel the HoD and the HoY will have just worked out something that socially solved an issue, rather than it being based on ability. And, again, as I have said before, why on earth was this never flagged so we could have supported her more - she could have studied with her sister (who is in Set 2 and studying most of the same stuff most of the time) during her additional maths tutoring sessions but we never thought there was a need as she's always done well so we have let her get on with other school work/TikTok or whatever. Just really crap communication from them all around.
*On a parallel thread is a parent saying their son is being blocked from moving up to the top set by a girl who performed worse than him in a test.*
But where does it end? If, in the next test, she is the 29th best, does she get moved back up again? There should be stability now they are in their GCSE phase of school and, had we been told she was slipping behind (which she isn't as she's never scored below an A grade) then we could have supported her more. I could get it if she was scoring 5s or 6s, but she isn't and never has done (since her first CAT in yr 7, her lowest grade remains a 7).
"But where does it end? If, in the next test, she is the 29th best, does she get moved back up again?"
Possibly but it would be at set times of the year, I have set dates where we look at how the cohort are performing and make decisions on how we see them progressing. This is a conversation though and at various points includes pastoral, class teacher, pupils and parents.
I was moved down then back up when I was at that stage. That annoyed my maths teacher father massively.
*This is a conversation though and at various points includes pastoral, class teacher, pupils and parents.*
And that's the rub - there has been no communication, just my daughter being told to stay back at the end of class (between lessons) for a very brief word from her teacher. I really don't think it has been well-handled.
It seems wrong to me to disadvantage one kid so another can move up. Also seems weird to move sets partway thru the year
Have you spoken to her friends parents? - the girls probably want to end up in the same class whichever that turns out to be.
You could always accept the change and use it to motivate her to prove her ability.
I moved down from top set to 2nd set when I was about your daughter's age. Was then moved back up again a couple of terms later. Maybe it was needed - maybe it wasn't - I can't remember now but it didn't do me any harm as I still got an A at GCSE maths and went on to do A-level and got a B but did find my maths ceiling was 2nd year A-level when it became a foreign language and I hadn't got a clue. It also took A-level maths for me to understand GCSE Physics.
The school will be balancing academic and pastoral / social issues as well - it's not just based on the cat score.
I have a twin brother, when we went to secondary school he got put in the higher set for the some subjects like English and Maths although I was considered the cleverer of the two. In hindsight, whoever assigned/streamed students probably got our names mixed up. Anyway, one of us finished up with Honours and Masters degrees and had a relatively successful career and the other didn’t.
It seems wrong to me to disadvantage one kid so another can move up.
You're assuming that being moved down is a disadvantage. The thread already includes arguments as to why it might not be.
My daughter was moved down from top set in Y8 and tells me she prefers where she is now. Teacher is more capable and happy to take time on extra explanations when things aren't clear for her. I would not assume there is less opportunity in the lower set for quality learning.
So you disadvantage another by keeping them down when they are higher performing?
Move the other kid uo without moving anyone down.
Tj there are limits on class size, certainly in Scotland you should not teach more than that limit.
Move the other kid uo without moving anyone down.
You're still assuming a higher set is an advantage...
I wrote a long reply but ST reloaded! Key points:
she may thrive better in the other class. Clearly something didn’t resonate with the existing arrangement on the recent topic - so a change may help.
teachers would get more teaching done if they spend less time stroking parents egos.
Parent perception of performance issues and teachers is different.
im sceptical that “sitting in with her sister” would have been the magic bullet you think it would - the reason tutoring works is one to one attention at exactly the pace and understanding of the pupil. BUT was it a surprise that she did poorly in this latest test? Because either she’s not asking for help or she’s not sharing that she’s struggling with you (or both). GCSE maths with a pupil who wants to learn, one specific topic and a parent who cares - probably doesn’t even need a tutor; BBC Bitesize, YouTube, some practice and if you get stuck post on STW.
HOD is being pestered by other parents wanting their kid in in the higher class, resist. Ask for all the marks of other kids in both classes and call sex discrimination and favouritism if they won't hand them over.
They cannot hand over other kids data. That would be wrong
As I have said, her own teacher doesn’t agree with the decision so I feel the HoD and the HoY will have just worked out something that socially solved an issue, rather than it being based on ability.
I wouldn’t put much credence in the teachers opinion as they aren’t making the decision and reaching for a conspiracy as the logical reason for dropping a form
Usually a dip in performance has a reason so have you spoken to your daughter to find out if something is bothering them or other reason they aren’t performing as well?
In that case they can't justify moving her down, TJ. No objective criteria = discrimination.
It'll come down to which parents provide the best arguments or who seem most capable of causing the most professional damage to the HOD. Who should be overridden rather than negotiated with. Head of school and board of governers first with a bunch of socialogical mumbo jumbo that will baffle their brains and convince them that it's better to leave things as they are rather than punitive, demolarising, distressing treatment of your daughter, OP.
Why's it not objective? They can have the data and make an objective decision, without having to hand that data over to anyone else.
Head of school and board of governers first with a bunch of socialogical mumbo jumbo that will baffle their brains and convince them that it’s better to leave things as they are rather than punitive, demolarising, distressing treatment of your daughter, OP.
No, talk to the teacher and HoD first, see if there's a logical and justifiable reason. If (IF) no satisfactory answers then consider escalating. A quiet word about the handling without screaming about the actual decision would probably be my approach.
demolarising treatment
It's GCSE maths, not dentistry?
Back to the OP
I’m a career physics teacher. But now in a college college so no setting
I would expect setting to be objective. I’d expect there to be say a spread sheet that shows your daughter has dropped out of the top set on objective criteria. I don’t think the head of year would be envolved.
It would be useful to know how many sets there are. It could be 7 sets. In a good catchment sets 1 & 2 could both be working towards 7,8 & 9 grades.
At her school what is a “CATS”? My son did a CAT test before starting gcse. This is a an intelligence test. It was used for setting. But you wouldn’t expect another CAT. It’s worth noting that most my sons CAT got the setting spectacularly wrong in one subject. But schools all have their own systems.
The school should keep you informed about your daughter’s progress. However i don’t think that would include warnings about set changes. These are not a punishment.
It would be useful to know what the class teacher thinks. “I wish you weren’t leaving my class” is not the same as “you are not the lowest achieving student in this group”
Remember that the school is equally responsible to all students. I hope you have a productive meeting with the HOD and that your daughter does well in gcse maths
@tjagain you’ve often said that teacher stress is caused by teachers not saying no. I respect that.
But here you say the solution is just to make the top set bigger.
🤦♀️
@ampthill – The school still refer to whatever testing it is that they do as 'CATs' (Common Assessment Tasks) – they get tested three times a year in an exam setting and Teacher Expected (TE) marks twice (they don't do it in the first term in each year for some reason – probably letting the class settle) in the following way (with 1 being the lowest grade and 9 being the highest. A score of 7 is the equivalent to an A pass)
The following are her scores...
Statistical Target 7 (expected grade based on the individual student's previous grades)
CAT Year 10 Autumn 8 (higher than expected so over-achieving)
CAT Year 10 Spring 7 (so she achieved exactly as expected which was why she was placed in the set in the first place)
TE - Year 10 Spring 7 (again, the teacher expected her to achieve the score she achieved, and again, that was why she was placed in the set)
The more I write, the more ****ed up I think the decision is – at no point has she fallen below what, statistically, was expected of her (which was why she was in the set), she achieved what her teacher expected, and at one point over-achieved. If it wasn't for her struggling with one piece of work in her last test, she would have over-achieved again but, as it is, she still managed to achieve as expected!!!
Deleted as I was going to quote a couple of things and then realised the person hadn't said what I thought they said so I said something else.
But then OP responded below, which made it kinda awkward, so I'm removing it.
Soz
^ I know! It really is inexplicable.
If the person in the lower set over-achieved however, the school is still left with the problem of fitting a quart into a pint pot.
*If the person in the lower set over-achieved however, the school is still left with the problem of fitting a quart into a pint pot.*
But I am not sure why that should disadvantage someone that is performing either as or above expected though. And what happens after the next CAT if she performs better than the lowest person in the top set...
Hi, Maths teacher here. There are some really interesting responses in this thread and it's helped demonstrate to me how emotive the issue of setting is! Some points to think about:
1) The setting is supposed to help the child work at a level that they find comfortable. Some of the posts above are implying that the set is dictating the student's grade, where in reality it should be the other way around.
2) A student should get the same grade no matter what set they are in, assuming the sets are properly considered.
3) The teacher should not have said they don't agree with the decision. This is undermining the HoD. The decision to change sets should have been based on test performance AND some teacher input.
4) The test grades you've provided don't give the full picture. It would be more useful to have the raw score or a percentage.
Good luck getting an outcome that you're happy with.
*You keep using the word “disadvantage”. It’s been explained, several times, why that might not be the case.*
No it might not be the case. But given her emotional state and her reliance on friendship groups (as I have mentioned on this thread and the school know all about), it is going to be very disruptive for her – and these are her GCSE years we are thinking about.
@maths - we don't get anything more detailed – exact scores are shared with the students but not recorded. Our daughter said that, in the autumn term when she got a Grade 8, she was one point off getting a Grade 9 (which is the top grade available).
Madame educator often (always) gets given the top class. The selection takes place on the basis of a single test for the whole year group at the end of the year. It's objective and transparent. She's more than reluctant to demote willing kids and has sometimes increased class size rather than kick out.
when she got a Grade 8, she was one point off getting a Grade 9
I'm not going contribute much more as this is too much like work but...
These 8s and 9s need to be taken with a pinch of salt (or 4s, 5s 6s etc). What are they, predicted grades or current attainment grades? Very different beasts. Also if current attainment coming from assessments - are these actual past paper questions, timed and sat in exam style conditions (Inc extra time, scribes, readers etc etc etc) or centre/teacher generated end of topic tests sat in class? Again, very different beasts. Is this work that in and of its self is worthy of a 9 or is it work inductive of 9 standard understanding which is likely to be replicated in 15 months time with exam style questions?
This is another can or worms I'm reluctant to open (because quite simply it's way too much like work and I'm pretending I've not got to go back on Monday) but schools often manage to get themselves tied up in knots with parent and student expectations overly elevated using grades with a bit too much subjectivity. Do well in this end of topic test that's not been properly assimilated to exam standards, does not have the time pressures and is a single topic revised for in isolation- here's a 9. Now you are a hostage fortune.
Sensible schools use a different grading scale for achievement this far out on day to day marking and test with periodic predicted grade reports imo
Funnily enough my BGE grading system is "do you feel happy with that mark?"
everything @maths said - but I’d add to this:
The teacher should not have said they don’t agree with the decision. This is undermining the HoD.
that of course exactly what the teacher said and what pupil heard are not always the same thing, eg.
”Jane, we are going to move you Mr X’s class. I want to be clear youve done absolutely nothing wrong and I like having you in my class. Who sits it which class is decided by Mr Y” is easily misinterpreted by someone who is a bit upset or confused. Then she tells her Dad (or her mum, and her mum and dad discuss it) and now it’s remembered as “the teacher said she didn’t agree with the decision and she wasn’t even consulted”.
I think convert is also right - parents and pupils get set expectations which sometimes don’t materialise (or sometimes are totally smashed) because, eg remembering how to factorise an equation when you just did it last week and all the questions are on factorising is very different from being presented with a question that doesn’t give you a clue that it’s a factorising problem 9 months after you did it in class.
I find it very unlikely that a student who is capable of A level maths if they sit in the top set at gcse is going to fail to even get in if the sit in the second set. My blunt answer: take a moment to honesty reflect if it’s YOUR pride that’s being dented by your child not being in top set. We have friends who proudly declared that their eldest was in top set for things, but two years later when their youngest was not doing so well were vocally critical of the approach the school took to grading them. I don’t know you or your daughter but it might be worth trying to find someone who can give you really honest frank feedback (not friends who will tell you what you want to hear). Perhaps that tutor you have for your other daughter, if told you want the honest truth would be able to discuss maths with your daughter and give a more genuine appraisal of anyone here on whether/why she’s struggled and how to tackle it.
you are treating being in “2nd set” like being in some sort of remedial class. Imagine you have 150 pupils and a maximum of 30 pupils per class. Assuming you thing “sets” are a good way to sort the classes for learning (and your outrage implies you do), then what should they do when it looks from mid year results like there’s one kid struggling a touch with the pace in the top set and one who is probably bored in second set. The usual reason little Johnnys parents (or class teacher) are saying should move “up” is he’s finishing all the work ahead of the class and not feeling challenged. Moving into the top set puts him with others who are also finding the work easy and who can be given extension work to stretch them. What you are asking is for the school to make a special exception for your daughter because of some non-academic reason. That might be reasonable but it’s not the thrust of your OP.
FWIW I’d put my emotional effort into helping your daughter find psychological support because if she’s going to do a-levels and go to uni this won’t be the only time in life that she doesn’t get the positive reinforcement she may be used to.