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Condolences to his family and all that but what a ****!
French skier falls from ski lift.
Sad for the family, but you get the feeling that he would have done something to remove himself from the gene pool eventually
Tragic, but it's apt that his fall ended on a piste marker
Seems odd -
“If there’s movement caused by abrupt braking or something else, the entire cabin is designed to withstand any shocks that may occur ... this stupid accident was caused by him gaining momentum and throwing himself against the plexiglass.”
How much momentum is gained within a small cabin - wouldn't it be similar to someone taken by suprise off balance if there's abrupt braking? Or, if not similar, what sort of safety factor does the plexiglass have vs the impact of a person - 4x? Should still be very difficult to break. No chance the window or frame was already damaged? Maybe the invesigators have some work to do. Maybe can't simply blame someone for being drunk. I mean, that would suit the lift management company.
I guess there's some kind of emergency access handle to get out the window though that would be easy to check afterwards.
How much momentum is gained within a small cabin – wouldn’t it be similar to someone taken by suprise off balance if there’s abrupt braking?
True, or the momentum of an entire gondola of people if it was packed and they all lost balance at once, like if the brakes were suddenly applied and they all leaned one way then the other.
It seems like it should be impossible for one human being to break the window no matter how big a run up they took.
Still stupid though.
I'm surprised the plexiglass gave way,to be honest. Naive of me to think it would be tougher.
Not sure I'd want to be the investigating officer with the video....
Am I being a dick suggesting that UK reporting of the incident would be much more muted in apportioning blame on the part of a drunk person doing something dumb? There’s just a different (and refreshing) tone in that article.
The authorities are clear that his mate was filming him so it should be pretty apparent it wasn’t an accident in the sense that the door opened as a result of a lean or stumble. These aren’t plane doors.
The plexiglass probably didn't break but it's mounting.
100kg can generate a fair amount of force.
100kg can generate a fair amount of force.
Sure, but one you'd design the cabin to cope with, and much more? And have inspections to check that a single person couldn't hit the window and the window falls out of the frame? 100kg isn't a particularly heavy person.
"The scene was filmed by his friend with his phone"
Christ.
Two drunk young men messing about ends in tragedy, not for the first time and (sadly) won't be the last.
IMO,doesn't really get into Darwin award territory, that is a whole different level of stupidity.
I read this in the French papers and they were pretty clear it was intentional...
I would think* it was intentional to run around the gondola,while bouncing off the plexiglass/polycarb panels,plunging to death on a piste marker ,less so.
*I have not(or want to) seen the filming.
Stuff like this always reminds me of the mythical (false) bread slicing machine.
A British company buy a bread slicing machine from germany. On installation it is deemed not fit for purpose because a door can be opened when running to gain access the parts of the machine that do the slicing.
The company calls the machine manufacturer to say this and that it is not safe.
The manufacturer says
"But there is a door that needs to be opened and a sign that says do not open when running. In Germany no one would open the door"
The customer replies "Because there is a door and a sign saying do not open means, in Britain, they would".
I used this example in H&S lessons with apprentices and most agreed that the door would be opened even if a sign said not to, though they wouldn't put there arm in there.
Stuff like this always reminds me of the mythical (false) bread slicing machine.
Our product had pressed panels made in China, in the factory they removed the doors which are supposed to close whilst the 100 tonne press comes down. They also remove all safety stops. The employee has to reach in and remove each piece between hammer strikes. If he gets the timing wrong he loses both arms and they just find someone else to replace him...
Sadly, not a myth..
Tragic, but it’s apt that his fall ended on a piste marker
Made me laugh.
And your CEO is OK with that? Don't tell me he doesn't have a choice because he absolutely does.
Shirley Val Thorens is France's highest ski resort?
A couple of weeks ago hubby and I were sitting on a chairlift with 4 others (hooray Henry types). They had come out for 4 days of skiing and boarding. It was mid morning and they were already drunk. Talking very loudly about how they were going to have a liquid lunch and hit 'a black'. Mmmm thought I, let's just hope that they don't injure anyone around them.
After a fall like that, even if he'd landed on his skis he'd have gone downhill fast.
And your CEO is OK with that? Don’t tell me he doesn’t have a choice because he absolutely does.
I doubt he knows to be honest.
It is interesting, having traveled and worked all over the world, you sort of get used to it and realise that our concept of H&S is very much a Western European anomaly.
We get stuff made cheaply in China etc and there is a reason it's cheap....
Same goes for T-shirts made in Bangladesh, where workers die all the time in factory fires.
So many trips abroad I've been in situations where H&S would have an absolute heart attack, but you couldn't get anything done if you rigidly stuck to WE standards.
Back in the day we would quite often open bubbles and stand in the open door, might have even been known to jump out of them, but all sober.
This accident is a direct result of H&S. Back in the day you could ski down in the dark piss up after the lifts had closed. Now we are all H&S people are now herded off the mountain before it goes dark.
People have always had a tipple of three skiing, but it does appear in more recent years that people are drinking more than they used to.
I’m surprised the plexiglass gave way,to be honest. Naive of me to think it would be tougher
Why the purpose of the cabin is to provide shelter from the elements, not to stop you falling out. This is where some things in life are just too accessible, and people dont want to take responsibility for their own actions. Old chairlifts didnt use to have bars that come down in front of you, bubbles used to be easy to open.
A few years ago me and mate lost our way somewhere on the sella ronda and ended up way down in the valley - green fields and everything
Found a lift at the bottom in a village that wasn't even on the pistemap. Basically it seemed to serve the locals to get up to the main ski area and was basically 2 really slippery melamine school chairs bolted together with no safety bar, no footrest no sides.....and a very jerky motion so they kept swaying. Plus there was a bar at the bottom which served drinks at fraction of the price normal for ski resorts.......we only had the one and I'm glad we did after getting on that deathtrap. Never been so scared!
So many trips abroad I’ve been in situations where H&S would have an absolute heart attack, but you couldn’t get anything done if you rigidly stuck to WE standards.
First World, not just WE - I use to work for a Canadian heavy engineering company, they were on a par with WE; the US on the other hand could be a bit 'shoddy'...
Tragic, but it’s apt that his fall ended on a piste marker
Yep, at least his travel insurance will pay out...
"
We get stuff made cheaply in China etc and there is a reason it’s cheap….
Same goes for T-shirts made in Bangladesh, where workers die all the time in factory fires."
Of course. Thats why our company goes out of our way not to import from countries with low or no worker protection laws. We do import a small amount from China but have been to the factory - still not ideal.
On a personal level, I'll try my absolute hardest not to buy sweatshop goods from Bangladesh etc. Obviosuly when it comes to electronics its almost impossile not to buy Chinese - and even 'reputable' companies like Apple obviously don't give a toss about workers rights in other countries so what chance have smaller companies got. We need Rega to build a phone!
Thats why our company goes out of our way not to import from countries with low or no worker protection laws. We do import a small amount from China but have been to the factory – still not ideal.
If you genuinely applied H&S to the entire supply chain, right down to raw material extraction / production, you'd never sell anything as you#d be 5-10x the price of your nearest competitor.
You might visit a reasonable OK Chinese factory, but they'll be using imported raw materials from Africa, extracted using child labour etc....
How much momentum is gained within a small cabin – wouldn’t it be similar to someone taken by suprise off balance if there’s abrupt braking?
What if the Gondola is on a conveyor belt carrying an unburdened Swallow?
African or European swallow?
We get stuff made cheaply in China etc and there is a reason it’s cheap….
Same goes for T-shirts made in Bangladesh, where workers die all the time in factory fires.
There's audits for that sort of thing. As questionable as the reliability may be if you buy from a supplier you have a responsibility to audit working conditions and there's laws covering company director obligations - MSA etc. Your point on the whole supply chain is right though - battery raw materials and so on.
If you genuinely applied H&S to the entire supply chain, right down to raw material extraction / production, you’d never sell anything as you#d be 5-10x the price of your nearest competitor.
https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/home/
We need Rega to build a phone!
@winston not a bad effort here: https://shop.fairphone.com/en/buy-fairphone-4
And your CEO is OK with that? Don’t tell me he doesn’t have a choice because he absolutely does.
I doubt he knows to be honest.
TBH, in a previous job (a company that no longer exists!) we audited some of our supply chain and found that sort of behaviour.
Heads rolled, people were shouted at, suppliers refitted safety guards and housings, processes were put in place...
Audit checklists were signed off.
within weeks they took all the guards and housings off and started killing/maiming employees again.
AFAIK there is a large US manufacturer still using parts from the facility.
I'd guess that pushing hard Offa wall and hitting the plexiglass in the middle with shoulder might flex it enough to pop it from its frame.
It's a shame someone has died I'm glad that they didn't hurt anyone else.
a tragic accident but ive got to say im getting fed up of people not taking responsibility for themselves. Its all good to start to say the plexiglass, flexible, window may not have been held rigidly enough to take the force of a 6ft grown man throwing himself against it. The same would be said if there was a fire an they couldn't be removed.
Play stupid games etc....
Our product had pressed panels made in China, in the factory they removed the doors which are supposed to close whilst the 100 tonne press comes down. They also remove all safety stops. The employee has to reach in and remove each piece between hammer strikes. If he gets the timing wrong he loses both arms and they just find someone else to replace him…
Crazy...
Off topic but I temped in a place darn sarf on a press, pressing brackets, radio cages and whatnot for cars.
The press was nigh on impossible to injure yourself in.
IIRC, You put your part on the plate thingy
You then pull down the (hydraulically/pneumatically assisted) press via an external handle, but you had to use your other hand to keep a finger on a power button/dead man switch or the press wouldn't come down.
It also had a kind of spring loadad mesh guard that came down slightly ahead of the press that would trip the machine out if it got obstructed.
I mean I suppose you could injure yourself if you made a concerted effort to bypass 3 seperate safety controls...
But that means you cant knock out 20 parts per min, more like 3 or 4.
@winston not a bad effort here: https://shop.fairphone.com/en/buy-fairphone-4/blockquote >
Great idea. Modular system that let's you change parts when necessary.
Several friends have had various iterations of Fairphones. Sadly they've all given up on them and gone back to the main brands. Not the most reliable things.
About 30 odd years ago i was temping at Marshalls Aerospace in Cambridge. Me and a mate had to stock take an entire hangar of spare bits for planes - I mean there was everything from tiny widgets to nosecones! It was stored in huge bays which went right up to the top of the hangar some 50ft or so. We had to use a massive set of steps on wheels with guard rails etc which could be moved then locked in place. You would move them to a bay, climb up and inside the bay then count the stuff etc then come down and move to the next etc. Some of the bays were full so it took ages but many were half empty or had lareg items in so it took 3 mins to count it. We soon got bored of all the hassle of moving the steps each time and as we were both climbers though nothing of swinging out of one bay into another till we could be 3 or 4 bays away from the steps. The foreman caught sight of us and went absolutely mental. we were both taken off that job and given some hellishly boring job filing drawings somewhere. he said why did you do that - we said cos it was quicker, he said "why would you want to do it quicker? you don't get paid any more for doing it quicker......."
Cool story i know but it just shows how attitudes have changed!
https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/home//blockquote >Still not WE standards. I'm wearing a Patagonia jacket right now made in the 3rd world using cheap labour, with no welfare safety net and lower standard H&S.
Sure, they audit the factory and it's better than most - but no where near WE standards.
Plus it's made 100% out of petroleum products and leaches synthetic fibres every time it's washed.....
Another thing which I find amusing about Patagonia, they refuse to make branded promotional clothing for O&G companies even though they rely 100% on the same companies products to make their synthetic clothing!
a tragic accident but ive got to say im getting fed up of people not taking responsibility for themselves.
It's difficult, a compromise has to be had I suppose. On the one hand, hurling yourself bodily at the window of a cable car is bloody stupid. On the, er, no hands, the Chinese press example above is also bloody stupid. We have thankfully moved on from the days of routinely hurling small children under spinning jennies, but there has to be a point where we just conclude "well then, you're bloody stupid."
On the, er, no hands, the Chinese press example above is also bloody stupid
It's not though.
It has allowed China to compete and win on price, and it's been very very successful for them as a country, they've become the worlds factory and massively increased wealth and status as a results. Far faster than any other country in history.
Has turned large swathes of their country into a polluted shit hole, but I guess they'll get round to cleaning that up at some point...
Some of the dodgy H&S practices also happen in the UK. I read of a guy being crushed to death inside a CNC Lathe maybe four years ago in the UK. His company was supplying several large car manufacturers here and in Europe.
H&S Investigation found he'd over-ridden two or three safety lockout devices so that he could reach in to clear swarf and jammed components quicker. All the audits and reviews had been completed and no-one was found to be at fault apart from the, now deceased, operator.
Sad but people are the least reliable thing in any production process :o(
tragic accident but ive got to say im getting fed up of people not taking responsibility for themselves.
and I bet his family have set up a Go-Fund me page to raise money to bring his body home. It seems to be the alternative to travel insurance for a lot of people nowadays.
It’s not though.
It has allowed China to compete and win on price, and it’s been very very successful for them as a country, they’ve become the worlds factory and massively increased wealth and status as a results. Far faster than any other country in history.
It almost sounds like you approve of that race to the bottom. I'm not sure what's worse, that it happens at all or that people seem to be so okay with it that they justify it on cost grounds.
OT but
Another thing which I find amusing about Patagonia, they refuse to make branded promotional clothing for O&G companies even though they rely 100% on the same companies products to make their synthetic clothing!
Not so -
69%
The percentage of our raw materials this season that are made with recycled inputs (another 18% are renewable).
https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/why-recycled/
Like Funky posted earlier. Bubble lifts used to be so much more rickety. We’re in La Plagne this week. The bubble to the top of Roche Mio is in its last year of service apparently. Got to be at least 40-50 years old. The kids thought it was going to kill us all! It didn’t even have the little lever that was on some old lifts (Frejus telecabine) that you could use to open the door for added ventilation. If you didn’t want to use your foot that is!
I think the French attitude to this sort of thing is much better than the British. Galic shrug, Monsieur was drunk, did a stupid thing, galic shrug.
The plexiglass probably didn’t break but it’s mounting.
100kg can generate a fair amount of force
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Garry_Hoy
Also, if anyone would like to watch a different version of the sweatshops/fire story then Greed is worth a watch.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greed_(2019_film)
Still not WE standards. I’m wearing a Patagonia jacket right now made in the 3rd world using cheap labour, with no welfare safety net and lower standard H&S.
Sure, they audit the factory and it’s better than most – but no where near WE standards.
Plus it’s made 100% out of petroleum products and leaches synthetic fibres every time it’s washed…
So why are you wearing it then? Why aren’t you wearing wool garments woven from wool collected from sheep owned by hill farmers, and dyed and woven by individual weavers and dyers here in the U.K.?