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outofbreath
Hes not "100% right".
Hes the one who set out to make a joke about the royals having a child, and included a picture of an ape (representing the _mixed_race_ child) as the focus of the joke, and then claimed the people who said WTF! were diseased.
A bit like what you did.
I don't dislike him, and I don't think he's the worst person in the world, but his notpology gave the BBC no choice.
You've decided he's 100% right and everyone who disagrees is a racist.
M'ok..
I don’t think he’s a racist, but I think it’s possible he intentionally posted something he knew people would take as racist, to get a reaction. And that’s shitty too.
Do you actually think this or are you just flagging it as a vague possibility? I'd say the possibility of it being true is about the same as me winning the lottery. I'd don't play the lottery. To intentionally put yourself in this entirely predictable situation would be career suicide. You just wouldn't. No one would. And to put it up as a conceivable option is grasping at straws.
Which is why I tend to keep off social media. Tis truely an awful cesspit. There are a lot of sick people on those platforms.
Ohhh the ironing.
You are here, so are we 🤪
You only have to read the story posted pages ago to know that eat_the_pudding is talking shite.
Still, I'm sure he's having fun.
tpbiker is right.
It is a racist post to racists (and to those constantly vigilant for potential offence I suppose), but if your mind doesn't work that way there isn't anything obvious to be upset about. It took me a long time to work out what the offence was.
Meghan Markles race is no issue whatsoever to me, in fact I could barely care less so it really does need someone to point it out before it even registers. I presume the same for Danny Baker.
DB should probably have known better but a swift retraction and apology is what was required and what happened. In short, Markle and other black people probably entitled to be offended, DB right to retract a silly post with implications he hadn't thought about, BBC wrong to overreact.
How about a 3rd- he saw the racist connotation but posted it anyway, thinking he’d get away with it
I don't know much about Danny baker. If he has an ounce of common sense he'd know he would get crucified for this, which he has done. If he honestly thought he could get away with it in this day and age, with the BBC as his employer, then he's a total idiot.
For me at least, that pic would still make sense even if there was no mixed race heritage in the family, as let's face it, the royals are pretty much 'performing chimps' for the masses that bizarly appear to love them.
Oh yeah, and this 'diseased mind' thing as if its an insult against those taking offence - I read it as saying he simply doesn't think that way i.e. he doesn't have the 'disease' of seeing everything through a lens of race - what should be the ultimate aim of any true anti-racist.
This was his sentence "[The racist connotation] Never occurred to me because, well, mind not diseased."
Again, probably not the smartest thing to write but my guess is it was an attempt at being humble, not fighting back.
dezb
Yes, pointing out a similar story about someone comparing a mixed race person to an ape is "talking shite".
I guess you guys don't even see colour, so all of us real racists should just aspire to your level.
Not having fun, just a bit shocked at a lot of people on here.
This might be the "What colour is the dress" moment for racism.
I don't think of this as social media. That's that Faceache, twitter and the like.
That's what I believe anyway. ITS MY OpinION AND i DON'T CarE! /s
I had no idea it was a long running gag on his show (never listened to him) but my initial impression on seeing his tweet was "another performing royal monkey".
I don’t think of this as social media. That’s that Faceache, twitter and the like.
That’s what I believe anyway. ITS MY OpinION AND i DON’T CarE! /s
Ah, you and me both then.
But it is social media.
I don't care much either way, what we do post on here is kept open in record form and in the public domain. It's open for all to read, maybe not comment on but it's readable.
Even I forget that sometimes.
We ought to think about that point when posting IMO...
Moving on, I do wonder what Media Danny Baker will move into next. Like him/Loath him/Ignore him he was pretty good at commanding a crowd and creating content..
Sure one of the independents will snap him up, along with some of his followers no doubt..
eat_the_pudding - you are talking shite.
What does Roseanne Barr have to do with Danny Baker?
Actually, it will probably help if I answer that simple rhetorical question for you lest the point evades you - Nothing, its simply not relevant, at all.
convert
Subscriber
Do you actually think this or are you just flagging it as a vague possibility? I’d say the possibility of it being true is about the same as me winning the lottery. I’d don’t play the lottery. To intentionally put yourself in this entirely predictable situation would be career suicide.
I definitely think it's possible, maybe even likely. It seems just as possible as "even though I've been doing this joke with monkeys for years, nobody has ever said watch out Danny, that could be taken wrongly, and I never thought of that myself either"
And is it inevitably career suicide? I don't think so. People have said worse and become foreign secretary. Put it another way though, I don't think he's stupid enough to not realise it could and would be taken as racist; but I do think he's clever enough to convince himself he could beat the rap
When I first saw the photo I immediately thought of the connection with racism. I don't buy his thinly veiled excuse of ignorance, racism is part of our social conditioning and the monkey association with people who have black skin has been around since Kant, Darwin and his nephew Galton developed the eugenics pseudo science.
If you didn't immediately make the association thence it shows how ignorant and/or privileged you are. Just last week my mixed heritage kids were taunted with monkey calls from a kid at school, I've heard N* shouted across the street at them, teachers has made racist comments about them and my education board has said that "black people are physiologically different to white people"
When you are a white male it's easy to dismiss racism and say MTFU and call out "Snowflake" but what would you do when your 6yr old wants to kill themselves because their peers are telling them that "brown people are dirty/smelly/stupid" or their teachers are telling them they are too sensitive?
I think that the BBC did the responsible thing and took a zero tolerance stance, there's no place for racism
If you didn’t immediately make the association thence it shows how ignorant and/or privileged you are
Really?,
awesshoe - its not ignorance - its simply not even registering it.
Why would you have the mothers race in mind when making a silly joke about royals being trivial and unimportant?
Once it was pointed out to him he took it down and apologised. That should have been the end of the matter. Maybe it does point to speaking from a privileged position but that doesn't mean he should be crucified for a mistake which he has apologised for.
Racist, and basically horrible- I'd sack him twice for it.
Full disclosure:
I'd get rid of the royal family in a heartbeat.
I cant stand his breakfast show.
awesshoe – its not ignorance – its simply not even registering it.
erm, erm.... nah.
He’s just been fired from Radio 5
Damned with faint praise.
"Sorry my gag pic of the little fella in the posh outfit has whipped some up. Never occurred to me because, well, mind not diseased" Danny Baker
That's an attack, not an apology. He says that if people thought it was a racist comment then their minds are diseased!
Unconscious bias is still bias and it still has repercussions which the perpetrator is still responsible for.
Why would you have the mother's mother's heritage in mind when making a silly joke about royals being trivial and unimportant?
ftfy
Awesshoe - I don't read it that way at all. Isn't it amazing how things look different from different perspectives?
I don't see how this falls into 'unconscious bias' either. Its not discriminatory. Its posting a silly picture on a message board without a second thought to race, gender or any other particular characteristic. Other people may have good reasons for offence, which when pointed out, led to him taking it down and apologising for the inadvertent offence. I don't see how that warrants a witch hunt.
Doesn't matter if DB is racist or not
Doesn't matter if you look at the picture and think it is racist or not
The point is that there are people who do think it is racist, therefor it is.
It is DB's duty, as a public figure, to have thought more carefully before posting. I'm sorry for him and would give him the benefit of the doubt, but he missed it. It does not change the fact that it is offensive.
IMO the BBC are correct in their action and I would expect that this is covered in their policy on the use of social media.
To all those who are suggesting that this is just part of a long running gag, think on this Megan’s mum is a black woman from the USA. Do you think she thought.1. That’s just Danny Baker being a bit silly
2. pretty openly racist
Probably the latter.
But it makes the massive assumption that Danny Baker actually knows who Megan’s mum is.
I’m not a royal watcher but I am aware of the world around me.
If you don’t watch the news or read any current affairs-based websites then I’d still be amazed that you hadn’t picked up on the news that a member of the royal family was dating/engaged to/ married to (with a fair amount of pomp and coverage across the world)/expecting a baby with an American woman (who was reasonably famous in her own right) with a mixed race family history.
How can you honestly not have seen any of the talk about it?
You’re on the internet right now! 🤷♂️
Lister and nealglover -
Even knowing all that, you then still have to consciously make the link between silly picture featuring chimp to make point about how silly all the royal 'news' is and the mother.
Its not a natural leap to make.
It must be wonderful to view the world from the dadsnet perspective, it's<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> a classic example of ignorance which is defined as a lack of knowledge or information.</span>
If he was consciously unaware of how liking a monkey to a person of mixed heritage after growing up in the UK is racist, then his bias is certainly unconscious as the association has been made everywhere.
without a second thought to race, gender or any other particular characteristic.
The mother and grandmother of the child are both black. I wont entertain the idea that Danny Baker in his media role, didn't know that. Anyone who thinks that commemorating the birth of a child to a black woman by using an image of a chimp is OK needs to think about it a bit more carefully
I call bullshit on he didn't know Meghan's mum was black. With all the hoo-ha before the royal wedding and all the pictures and news articles of Doria Loyce Ragland before, join and after the royal wedding, he didn't know is complete and utter bollocks.
I’m not a royal watcher but I am aware of the world around me.
If you don’t watch the news or read any current affairs-based websites then I’d still be amazed that you hadn’t picked up on the news that a member of the royal family was dating/engaged to/ married to (with a fair amount of pomp and coverage across the world)/expecting a baby with an American woman (who was reasonably famous in her own right) with a mixed race family history.
How can you honestly not have seen any of the talk about it?
You’re on the internet right now! 🤷♂️
The point is I don't care she is of mixed race heritage. I know who she is and know what she looks like but it just does not register as a thing I should acknowledge as a relevant thing. My wife watched whatever that series was she was in incessantly before she started dating Harry. When she and Hewitt's son got engaged there was some discussion in the press about this being momentous and I had to pinch myself to ask why. I am sure it was front and centre and a bit of a scandal in the consciousness of the royal watching, curtain twitching racist-lite Daily Mail reading types but to me all that had registered that the great goon had punched above his weight and blagged a very pretty wife and the other one's wife would probably be a bit put out as she was no longer going to be the hottest princess in town.
It is perfectly possible to know but not see(in a metaphorical sense) and I'd hope we will one day get to the point where everyone is wired that way. Maybe then jokes about monkeys can be funny again.
Lister and nealglover –
Even knowing all that, you then still have to consciously make the link between silly picture featuring chimp to make point about how silly all the royal ‘news’ is and the mother.
Its not a natural leap to make.Lister and nealglover –
Even knowing all that, you then still have to consciously make the link between silly picture featuring chimp to make point about how silly all the royal ‘news’ is and the mother.
Its not a natural leap to make.
My first post, back when this thread was very young, was to the effect that it took me several seconds to make this association. But I'm not a fast thinking media person with life-long east London football connections (though I am middle-aged and white like 92% of those reading - audited figure - yes all three of you). So it shouldn't've been any leap at all for DB.
Whatever, to the various high-court judges who don't listen to the radio, have never heard of Megan Markle, are only dimly aware there's a bunch of parasitic royals in Buckingham Palace, don't know about bananas being chucked at our footballers, whatever your/my levels of ignorance/naivety/innocence are irrelevant frankly as we've not been on the receiving end of ape-related racism. Our levels of offence or lack of are not the issue.
I call bullshit on he didn’t know Meghan’s mum was black.
The chimp didn’t represent her mum, it represented the baby.. which is ginger (probably)
don’t know about bananas being chucked at our footballers
That is truly ****ed up. I know next to nothing about football, but the fact that some dickheads are doing that is just.....I don’t even have words.
Regarding Megan(?) I also had no idea she was mixed race and now I know I still don’t care.
Has anybody contacted the chimp from the photo to get its opinion?
The problem is; He may have known that the Meghan is mixed race, but the point is that he may not have considered the issue when he made the post. Of course likening a mixed race child to a monkey is racist, but if he’d not had the fact in his mind then he is guilty of forgetting the context of his post. It’s a bit like chatting at a party to someone about death and then remembering afterwards they have just been recently widowed. Crass? yes Insensitive also, but it isn’t deliberate. He may be seeing ‘the Duchess of Sussex’ rather than a person of mixed race.
This is clearly an issue that people will interpret as they wish. I absolutely can’t stand Danny Baker, but I just can’t imagine why he would attempt to make a blatantly racist point about the Royal Baby. He’s made a cock up, but I cannot see why he would risk so much when there is no chance he would get away with it.
Well he did declare it's red sauce every time, not that brown colour sauce.
Makes you think eh?
He made a racist post in ignorance but then doubled down on that ignorance by issuing a non apology. If you’re in a hole stop digging! In that context BBC reaction was entirely sensible.
It is a racist post to racists (and to those constantly vigilant for potential offence I suppose), but if your mind doesn’t work that way there isn’t anything obvious to be upset about.
Absolutely.
Its how the picture is interpreted by the individual. To Baker (apparently - and I have no reason to doubt him) it was about the royals being one big circus show ... but to those with obviously racists views they see an instant connection between monkeys and colour of a persons skin.
Markle and other black people probably entitled to be offended
Markle is as much white as black.
"... but to those with obviously racists views they see an instant connection between monkeys and colour of a persons skin."
So the black people and those who are aware of the discrimination that they face are racist? Got to love whitesplaning, racism is still racism whether it affects you negatively or not.
Racism isn't just hate either, it's indifference, apathy, ignorance... It all contributes to discrimination and lower life outcomes for anyone who is non-white, it's all very well saying that you don't see peoples skin colour as an issue but then you also don't see the difficulties they face.
I've just seen Danny Baker on BBC news claiming that he had no idea who had had a baby. Does he genuinely expect people to believe that?
I have zero interest in the royal family but even I knew that the wife of Princess Diana's son had had a baby.
I wish I wasn't bombarded with constant news about the royal family but I find it impossible to avoid it. How the **** does Danny Baker manage it? Presumably he has access to a radio?
I also knew the mother was mixed race quite simply because I had heard the rantings of racists. Is Danny Baker really that unaware?
When I saw the picture I made the connection instantly. It's nice to think that some people are so insulated from racism that they didn't - lucky you.
Aweeshoe - your first post hit every nail on the head. Well said.
If his mind doesn’t work that way then he must be a really seriously ignorant person considering that we live in a world where professional footballers face monkey chants and banana throwing. A large proportion of the population face vile discrimination on a regular basis but hey why should Danny Baker know about that?!
Also very impressed with aweeshoes post.
Also very impressed with aweeshoes post
And as impressed with his perseverance in explaining the situation to dullards who won’t change their mind.
I’ve just seen Danny Baker on BBC news claiming that he had no idea who had had a baby
Nonsense. More nonsense.
you only have to read this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
I wish I wasn’t bombarded with constant news about the royal family but I find it impossible to avoid it.
Really? I honestly know next to nothing about them and only found out about a baby because of this thread. In what way are you constantly bombarded? Do you live with them? Then again I actually thought Danny Baker was dead so my knowledge of celebrities is not good at best.
Way too many middle class white DB apologists on here.
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-else-call-their-kids-a-little-monkey/
Could have linked a dozen threads all saying how stuppid/planned/ conniving and racist this sort of thing is. But good ol Danny boy, nah he didnt mean it.
My ass he didnt, bloke is way to clever to do this by accident.
tpbiker is right.
It is a racist post to racists (and to those constantly vigilant for potential offence I suppose), but if your mind doesn’t work that way there isn’t anything obvious to be upset about. It took me a long time to work out what the offence was.
Meghan Markles race is no issue whatsoever to me, in fact I could barely care less so it really does need someone to point it out before it even registers. I presume the same for Danny Baker.
Because you are white and therefore don't get the offence. Telling others what they should or shouldn't find offensive is bollocks, assuming others don't find things offensive just because you don't is bollocks.
Eat_The_Pudding is right - DezB is an idiot. If Baker had done this by accident he wouldn't have done the non-apology.
Besides, if intent was all that was needed - I could walk into my work office and greet everyone by calling them a "Whaddup my ****" in a jovial fashion. I wouldn't mean it, but it would probably get me punched.
How many of you have seen South Park? (specifically the Nagger incident) There are a lot of Randy Marshes on here.
So the black people and those who are aware of the discrimination that they face are racist? Got to love whitesplaning, racism is still racism whether it affects you negatively or not.
+1 This is a classic racists defence mechanism.
assuming others don’t find things offensive just because you don’t is bollocks.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that though are they? Folk have just stated that they didn’t see that it could be offensive until it was pointed out to them. I definitely fall in to that camp. Naive or just white I dunno.
I’ve no idea what Danny Baker’s intentions were as I know very little about him. Other than I thought he was dead and looks like a cheap version of Danny DeVito. Either way I bet he’s regretting it now.
He should have just done a rape joke, seems like those are all right (if you're a 'Kipper).
he wouldn’t have done the non-apology.
Raybanwomble is a stupid moron calling “my sincerest apologies” a non-apology.
I'm quite surprised at the number of people saying they had no idea that associating black people with simians is a well established historical insult. I know sod all about football, but I'm well aware of the institutional monkey insults aimed at black players. There have been plenty of stories about other cases over the years, where celebrities and politicians like the Obamas have been targeted. It's not even the first time it's been discussed here. Five page thread from last year:
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-else-call-their-kids-a-little-monkey/
(Edit: Sorry, didn't notice that link had already been posted)
I'm also struggling to get my head around the allegedly obvious interpretation that Danny Baker's post was a play on the Royal family as "performing monkeys". It really seems a stretch to come up with that one. Danny Baker is a pretty sharp humourist, so his jokes aren't usually incredibly opaque.
Baker has never come across as racist from what I've heard him say, so I've no idea what he was thinking when he posted that Tweet, but the way he used that photo is obviously wrong, and he made a hash of the subsequent "apology".
No funkmasterp I don't live with them, I read and listen to the news, you presumably don't.
You can't be selectively death and blind when you read or watch the news or listen to the radio.
Presumably Danny Baker also knew about the birth, he just seems to have very limited information about it, despite his apparent strong urge to comment about it.
cumberlanddan
eat_the_pudding – you are talking shite.
What does Roseanne Barr have to do with Danny Baker?
If you can't see that (rosanne barrs) tweet about a mixed race person implying they were the child of an ape bears some relationship to a story about (danny bakers) tweeting a picture of an ape while referring to a mixed race child then you have my pity.
Archie's dad dressed as a Nazi for a laugh
Archie's grandad pleaded for a paedophile not to be punished
Archie's great grandad rivalled Bernard Manning with his racist "jokes".
Irony meter off the scale.
I’m quite surprised at the number of people saying they had no idea that associating black people with simians is a well established historical insult.
I'd be very keen for you to point out anyone who has said that. What has been said is that there are people whose first thought when they see a picture of a monkey/chimp is not racism orientated and also people who have said the first thing they think of when thinking about Megan Markle is not mixed race person. That is very different to your assertion.
I’m also struggling to get my head around the allegedly obvious interpretation that Danny Baker’s post was a play on the Royal family as “performing monkeys”. It really seems a stretch to come up with that one.
Which just goes to show we are all wired differently as I find it very odd that it would not be immediately obvious. Like seeing one of those magic eye images instantly and finding it strange when someone else can't.
The point is that there are people who do think it is racist, therefor it is.
Really? If some people believe something is racist then it definitely is?how many people? Is one enough, or do we have to get into double figures?
The Guardian had an article claiming that barbecues were racist. By your reasoning as some people think that it’s definitely true - so any white person who has a barbecue is racist.
The stw racists are tying themselves in knots over this!
... another thread implodes by the Brexit thread loons I think!
It shows how blinkered and pathetic some people are, you're really clutching at straws if you're juxtaposing racism with bbqs and questioning how many people does it take for a comment to be considered racist.
The answer is none, if you're surrounded by like minded eejits. If you compare, joke or even just tolerate dehumanising people then you are a bigot and are participating in discrimination.
Claimed ignorance if you wish but you're looking mighty stupid trying to defend it
He's always been upfront about his preference for red.
Listened to his radio shows for two decades now and never heard a hint of racism, however he does love that "chimpanzee riding on a Segway" ditty - so I absolutely believe it was just an unfortunate coincidence.
His reaction may have been a bit awkward, but I think the underlying anger is more to do with his famously prickly relationship with the "pinheads" at the BBC than with the social media lynch mob mentality.
Shame the news headlines couldn't have read "Danny Baker fired for unintentionally 'racist' tweet", as casual viewers may unjustly jump to conclusions.
Fans of his radio show may wish to check out the Lineker and Baker podcast. Brilliant stuff and includes Gazza stories not fit for radio.
Thank you, nick1962.
He's really the Duke of Edinburgh and ICMFP
@aweeshoe
It was a serious question - I cannot quite get my head around the "some people think it's racist therefore it is racist" statement.
I also think you might try a bit more tolerance and argue a little more politely. No doubt you by now have me down as some sort of Klansman, but I don't think so.
I try not to be racist though I accept that sometimes I probably am. I apologise if it's pointed out to me that I've said something crass or ignorant. I think very carefully about things like racism and I consider how things might seem very different to me than they do to someone who has experienced bigotry.
If there are people here you that you consider have got this wrong you need to explain why, not call them bigots and morons - you'll never enlighten anyone that way, they'll probably just call you a moron back.
1: I can totally understand why people think Baker's post was offensive
2: I can believe that he made that post without considering the potentially racist message
3: I accept that this lack of consideration is itself part of racism
4: He seems to be genuinely sorry, has apologised and withdrawn the post
5: If Baker had been punching down at someone poor and unable to defend themselves I would be much more upset - the Royal Family are probably well-insulated from many of the effects of racism
6: Sorry if I've wound you up, that was not my intention.
I had no idea that Meghan was mixed race. I do follow politics and sport but its perfectly possible to listen to the news and skip royal gossip.
The first thing that came to mind was his “Chimpanzees Dressed as Famous People with Fairground Music" thing.
Never quite as funny as he thought it was,though I enjoyed it the first few times.
I doubt he's a racist, just a bit too caught up in himself.
I presume its part of his job to be topical and produce 'satire' on current events rather than endless jokes about the 1980s so not knowing about the mixed race isn't really an excuse he can hide behind.
I don’t think he intended to be racist, but it was badly judged and very likely to appear that he was. He put himself in the firing line and got the old tin tack. FWIW I don’t think he should have been fired, but I can also understand why he was.
Whatever the ins and outs of the tweet, deletion, apology and sacking he will be suffering a far worse fate soon.
Namely being a cause celebre for every real Daily Mail reading gammony racist and, no doubt, being ‘backed’ by our very own perma-tanned Pound Shop Mussolini, Farage (although I could also be talking about BoJo).
I’m quite surprised at the number of people saying they had no idea that associating black people with simians is a well established historical insult.
I’d be very keen for you to point out anyone who has said that.
OK, here you go:
Another here who didn’t make a race connection.
I started in the camp of “what he did was misjudged but not racist”
I think that once its pointed out, its obvious it can be seen as racist. But unless you are a racist yourself, or have suffered from racism, its not immediately obvious.
Etc...
As for your alternative interpretation...
What has been said is that there are people whose first thought when they see a picture of a monkey/chimp is not racism orientated and also people who have said the first thing they think of when thinking about Megan Markle is not mixed race person.
In the context what Baker posted, and who he posted it about, I'm pretty damn surprised about that too...
No funkmasterp I don’t live with them, I read and listen to the news, you presumably don’t.
Kind of correct. What I do (and you should try this because it’s awesome) is read the news stories that interest me or seem important. Therefore I can avoid royal news. Bombardment ceased! You’re welcome 😉
You quoted me in your post above.
I didn't say "I had no idea that associating black people with simians is a well established historical insult" - of course I knew that.
What I said was that in this case I didn't make that connection, I saw it as mockery of the Royal Family, not as mockery of a mixed-race child.
Since it has been pointed out that the post could be interpreted as racist I agree that the post should be withdrawn and Baker should apologise even if the racist meaning was unintended.
People make mistakes, that doesn't necessarily make them bad people.
OK, here you go:
All incorrect. What you stated is that people were unaware that associating black people with simians is a well established historical insult. Where do any of the people you quoted state that or where are you getting that inference from? I am fully aware of the monkey/chimp gybes made at black footballers etc - how could you not be. But even aware of the historic implications that was not the first association I made when seeing the image on page one. As I said at the time....
I went……. royal family = performing monkeys, next little insta-celeb performing monkey has been born ready to entertain the great unthinking unwashed…..very funny……oh hang on……’monkey’…….never crosses my mind but those nasty racists use it as an insult………sharp intake of breath.
Why would someone be offended because I implied that what they thought and said was stupid? I'm not offended so no one else should be, what a bunch of drama queens 😝 It's not like I equated your appearance or intelligence to that of an animal. Hmmm. Hypocritical much? Mibbes aye
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as antagonistic but I have previously explained my perspective on this thread and others. I've had similar discussions many, many times as I have children of mixed heritage. I'm white and lived in a little bubble, believing attitudes had progressed. That's was until I had a black partner, I can't believe what I've seen and experienced since meeting him and having children. It's the sort of treatment you see in films. He just brushes it off, he's thankful the police are keeping an eye on him as it makes him feel safer. He ignores the looks and comments on the street, in shops, restaurants...
Our kids don't. They feel disenfranchised when the teacher said they couldn't do something, because they were black. They feel disgusting when a friend says that they are dirty, because they are black. They feel scared when someone shouts at them in the street, because they are black.
But you're not offended, so that's ok.
1. Racism is more than just hate. It's apathy. It's disinterest. It's ignorance. It's power. It's privilege. And so on. It doesn't matter whether you know it or not, it still works in your favour if you are white. Paraphrase of Scott Wood's lists.
2. Unconscious biases are learned and automatic stereotypes which are so deeply ingrained in our psyche that we aren't even aware of them, yet they influence our behaviour. You are responsible if your actions or words are harmful to someone else, directly or indirectly and intentional or not. Studies have demonstrated that teachers will mark a student lower if they have a foreign sounding name, judges will pass a harsher sentence if the defendant is black and black people are less likely to be promoted. But no one is racist, right? It's just an opinion.
3. If you were to see Megan in the street wearing joggy bottoms and a hoodie you'd call her black, money makes her whiter and more acceptable. To say you don't see colour means that you are blind to the difficulties black people face every day.
If you were to see Megan in the street wearing joggy bottoms and a hoodie you’d call her black
I’d call her Megan if I knew her.
To say you don’t see colour means that you are blind to the difficulties black people face every day.
I find this quite objectionable and pretty ignorant. It is perfectly possible to not see colour consciously (though I admit I may well see it subconsciously - I suspect we all do) and have personal dealings that are equal and fair with those around us and still have empathy with those who for reasons of the racism in others do not have it as easy as I do. I have a blind friend. His blindness is not something that I consciously think about in my dealings with him and the esteem I hold him in. That does not mean I do not have a heightened awareness of the difficulties others put in his path. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Kind of correct. What I do (and you should try this because it’s awesome) is read the news stories that interest me or seem important. Therefore I can avoid royal news. Bombardment ceased! You’re welcome
I'm impressed, your ears can obviously filter out certain news items when they are mentioned on the radio or TV.
However I doubt that Danny Baker possess such evolutionary advanced ears.
So, if you can see how it can be detrimental to equate someone or group with an animal why are you supporting it? I could accept his ignorance if he had sincerely been so, but he hasn't.
Your argument gives the association a legitimacy that sets us back 200 years, when really we should be planning a revolution
I'm not sure if your post was a reply to mine, it seems to be but I don't see how much of what you say has to do with what I said.
We're obviously having difficulty communicating this way, so i'm going to call it a day. For the record I agree with much ... most even ... of what you say.
A genuine apology from me if I've annoyed you in any way. It wasn't my intention to rile you up - I think of discussions like this as a way of learning and improving, I've certainly read things here I wouldn't have thought of myself.
I'm also sorry about what your kids have had to experience, and you should get that teacher sacked - someone like that has no place educating anyone.
Who is supporting it? There is not a person on this thread who has not said that once they had made the association with racism that the image should have been brought down and profuse apology made.
I mentioned many pages back a friend, who by the sounds of it is in exactly the same personal circumstances as you - white with a black partner and mixed race child, who posted a photo of her boy being naughty with the comment 'cheeky monkey!'. Would you do that? It was meant in the most innocent of ways in the way the phrase has been used about white kids for generations. Is there not some positive in normalising the term for its real meaning and ignoring the negative connotations.
@easily my post wasn't specifically addressed to you but to the thread in general. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">There are people on the thread who are defending what DB said and that they don't see how or why people could be offended and those who are are [insert insult here] and no, I don't mean you either @convert, go back to page 4 or was it page 3</span>
I've met white people who have black partners and are also racist, as I've said before that the intention is irrelevant. We are all conditioned by the same system, even black people can hold racial prejudice towards other black people. I called my ex a cheeky monkey once, I never thought anything of it but I may as well have called him a c*** judging by the look on his face. Would I call my kids it now? No. Never. Not when monkey noises are made at them in the school corridor and not while the majority of society associates them with animals. I wouldn't call a white kid it either.
Have you ever done the Harvard implicit bias test? It covers a range of biases from ableism to sexism I was surprised to discover that I'm racist owards white people! I'm paler than pale 😂
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/education.html