[Closed] Damn Unions at it again!

[b]You what?!![/b]

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Co-operation between business, government and unions! It'll never catch on I tell you. 😯

Everyone within our borders will have to start cooperating in future if the new French topcat gets his way on EU policies. Cameron backed the wrong horse.

The Vauxhall union guy I saw been interviewed on telly had a somewhat different attitude, more "they had us over a barrel, how dare they play this terrible game with peoples jobs, forcing terrible things on our brothers , it's a outrage" kinda thing.

The workers themselves seemed to have been a bit more pragmatic and voted overwhelmingly for the 2 year payfreeze and other concessions in place of being made redundant...

The Unite rep on C4 news was complaining about how long the factory had had an uncertain future. The same guy on BBC was saying how they struck best best deal possible and saved the factory. Editors have a lot of power to influence the way you think about individuals and the story...
Still - it's good news for the workers here (less good for those at Opel in Germany).

I get the impression from the guys that i know there that it was a bit of a no brainer and that given different circumstances they would not have folded so easily. But they have been on a massive rollercoaster over the last few years and i guess they just wanted security even if it cost them.

Listening to Bob Crow on Radio 4 the other day, I can't really see him, or his ilk, helping to usher in golden age of co-operation and resulting prosperity.

I get the distinct impression that if it had been down to him, you'd presently be reading about the closure of the Ellesmere Port Vauxhall plant, and he'd probably be regarding it as some sort of moral victory against the evil capitalist oppressors

The workers themselves seemed to have been a bit more pragmatic and voted overwhelmingly for the 2 year payfreeze and other concessions in place of being made redundant...

Doesn't that rather prove the union rep's point about having them over a barrel?

2 year pay freeze? Or no job? In the present climate? Thats the dictionary definition of a no brainer, surely?

Binners - spot on. Keep the jobs and the manufacturing. Try to encourage local sourcing of parts and consumables wherever possible. Once the plant is stable and profitable, then begin discussions about better terms. Being dogmatic about principles is great when it's not your job on the line.

Listening to Bob Crow on Radio 4 the other day, I can't really see him, or his ilk, helping to usher in golden age of co-operation and resulting prosperity.

I get the distinct impression that if it had been down to him, you'd presently be reading about the closure of the Ellesmere Port Vauxhall plant, and he'd probably be regarding it as some sort of moral victory against the evil capitalist oppressors

Do RMT members get a terrible deal from their union then ?

It's not the impression I get from reading the press - in fact the impression I get is the complete opposite.

You can't just trust what you read in the papers eh ?

Excellent news and a clear example of the union working to keep people in work. My faith in the unions is starting to be restored.

Bob Crow is probably bloody great if he's your union rep in the public sector. He's particularly adept at being uber-confrontational, and holding the authorities to Ransom

I'd think if you were working for a large Private firm, fighting for its survival, and your job was dependent on the outcome, you'd be somewhat less enthusiastic to have him negotiating on your behalf

My faith in the unions is starting to be restored.

Your faith in unions in Britain and Poland but perhaps not in unions in Germany ?

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I'd think if you were working for a large Private firm.....

You haven't heard that the railways have been privatised ?

A private monopoly is a very different thing from Vauxhall motors. So if Bob threatens to halt the underground, thats fine because everyone just uses the competition. You know the one. The other underground network running around the capital. Oh hang on a minute......

RMT has 80,000 members. It has increased its membership by more than a third in the first five years of Crow's leadership - not bad considering that for years most unions have been losing members**. Very few of those 80,000 members work on the underground.

EDIT : ** And not bad considering that it's apparently a crap union.

Just perhaps a lot of secret sweetners and free trips to geramany and usa to see the plans may have helped, along with a new port being developed next door to the factory for easier export of cars away, and a disused railway as well.

Just perhaps a lot of secret sweetners and free trips to geramany and usa to see the plans may have helped

What, for all 3000 employees in Ellesmere Port ? What a blinding employer 8)

GM made over 1bn dollars in the first quarter of 2012, they have used fear to force workers to take an effective pay cut. The unions were basically powerless to do anything but agree to any deal offered.

It's an example of humanity being treated as a commodity by corporations, and although I certainly hope it secures the jobs, futures and homes of those involved, it certainly leaves me feeling sad that people's lives are just part of a corporate power game.

GM made over 1bn dollars in the first quarter of 2012, they have used fear to force workers to take an effective pay cut. The unions were basically powerless to do anything but agree to any deal offered.

Doing well in US, in China and no doubt in some other territories, [url= http://blogs.detroitnews.com/overdrive/2012/03/28/gm-europes-2012-losses-could-reach-1-5-billion-as-plant-closures-rumored/ ]in Europe they're taking a bath[/url]

Depends how they work out the figures. How many chargebacks are there from GM US to GM Europe to minimise taxes and maximise government assistance (I believe Toyota are especially adept at this tactic, but imagine they are all doing the same thing).

Depends how they work out the figures. How many chargebacks are there from GM US to GM Europe to minimise taxes and maximise government assistance (I believe Toyota are especially adept at this tactic, but imagine they are all doing the same thing).

According to the link :

[i]"GM Europe lost $747 million in Europe in 2011. It has lost $15.5 billion since 1999."[/i]

That's well over a $billion a year average over almost 12 years. Makes you wonder why, but more importantly, how, they manage to carry on in business.... does it not ?

Yes of course the cynics will look suspiciously at those figures and suggest a certain [i]creativity[/i] about them. But it's not necessarily just to minimise taxes and maximise government assistance, often it reflects the local negotiation strength of trade unions.

Back in the day when Spain was under Franco's dictatorship and Spain had no effective trade unions and Spaniards were on piss-poor wages, Ford Spain always made huge profits whilst Ford UK and Ford Germany always seemed to make losses.

Which was rather handy for Ford because whilst they were under zero pressure to put up wages for Spanish workers the same couldn't be said of British or German workers.

Of course Ford made damn certain that Ford Spain made huge profits whilst Ford UK and Ford Germany made losses, by insisting that Ford UK and Ford Germany were charged astronomical prices for all components made by Ford Spain. Which obviously had the desired effect.

But maybe it's just that in the case of GM the bosses in Detroit aren't running a business at all but a charity, and they are therefore more than happy to spend/lose over a $billion a year for years, just to keep European workers able to feed their families.....maybe that's it eh ?

Just a shame the rest of the private sector are not on a pay freeze. After the tory scum has finish with us it will be close to 8 years since i had anything like a rise in line with inflation.

But we are all in it together, oh yes happy days if you are on £60k a year or more.

The strikes at Disneyland, Paris are interesting right now: http://www.****/news/article-2146320/Mickey-Goofy-Snow-White-course-Grumpy-walk-Disneyland-Paris-pay-sexual-harassment.html

Although the conditions and pay are bad (and the history of suicides there in the past is disgraceful) the recent assault allegations against a senior employee that has been allowed back to work because of lack of evidence is a worry. Technically staff should be able to say they won't work with someone when it comes to criminal activities.

Ermmmmmm. General Motors went bust in 2008 and the European auto industry is on its knees. No wonder they gave Unite a take it or leave it.

Ernie why are you banging on about Bob Crow? Are you suggesting the workers at Ellsmere Port should have said no?

Ernie why are you banging on about Bob Crow? Are you suggesting the workers at Ellsmere Port should have said no?

What is this - some sort of wind up ?

It was binners who chose to mention Bob Crow, not me - I was merely interested in binners comments.

I assume binners mentioned Bob Crow as a general attack on trade unions, despite the fact that it has nothing specifically to do with the OP. But you need to ask binners himself to confirm that.

And I haven't suggested anywhere that the workers at Ellsmere Port should have said no.

💡 TopTip mcboo : Try to actually read a thread before demanding answers.