[Closed] Damian Green and the left handed websites

So is this a good time to suggest people go and re read the it policy they have all signed up to (aka the easiest way to sack someone policy) if you still think he did nothing wrong at work please try it and argue that none of it was illegal and you did it when nobody else was there....

the easiest way to sack someone policy

you have to be careful........ both sides. Yes, it is in theory an easy way to dismiss someone but in a similar case with an ex-employee at my previous company, HR advised that we should still seek an 'amicable' compromise. The issue is that if you get rid of someone for misuse of company property (so not particularly porn or other inappropriate sites, just excessive use) then you should get rid of everyone who is guilty of the same thing, and if you don't then you risk allegations of victimisation.

*chewk runs off to furiously delete all his work porn he was so sure he was allowed*

mikewsmith - Member
So is this a good time to suggest people go and re read the it policy they have all signed up to (aka the easiest way to sack someone policy) if you still think he did nothing wrong at work please try it and argue that none of it was illegal and you did it when nobody else was there....

Has he been found guilty yet?

wiggles - Member
*chewk runs off to furiously delete all his work porn he was so sure he was allowed*

Sorry I forgot to mention I used to run my own company ...

I set the rules and me business partner used to watch pron all the time. 😆

Nahh ... I don't watch porn at all nowadays. No interest whatsoever as I don't really want to torture myself. I rather sleep. Bloody work never ends ...

No, it's all allegation and denial so far. Which potentially makes him guilty of both the porn but as importantly to me, blatantly lying.

Its not a legal matter, you dont get a trial over a breach of your employers policy?

I have given up now...

You enjoy you "personal time" in work...

First, he was not a government minister at the time, he was an MP.

Second, an MP isn't required to turn up to work, he can represent his constituents as he sees fit, if they think someone else will do a better job they can vote them in. The Labour MP who deposed Clegg hasn't turned for two weeks, Mhairi Black hardly ever votes, a Tory MP manages to run a highly lucrative practice as a barrister. You may think all of these are wrong, but unless you are one of their consitutents, your view is an irrelevance, they can send who they like to Parliament.

Third, Parliament is not the State, Parliament is sovereign and acts on our behalf to hold the State in the form of government to account. That is symbolized when Black Rod acting for the State (the Queen) has the doors slammed on him. My guess is that because of this, MPs who are not members of the government, while representing the public are not Public Office holders because they are acting for their constituents not the State.

So this then becomes a disciplinary matter between the MP and the Parliamentary authorities (who provide the computers not the government), which would ultimately end up in this type of instance with a committee of MPs whose ultimate sanction is to trigger the provision of the Recall Act. It would then be up to his constituents whether to petition to recall. There is absolutely no role for the Police in any of this.

Would I leap to the defense of a Labour MP in the same way, probably not to the same extent, but I am confident I would not try to argue the other side. I certainly think the vast majority of MPs are in politics for the right reasons. There are matters of important principle in cases like this, illustrated by the fact that the Guardian, no supporters of the Tories, are raising questions and that the original investigation was criticized from all sides of the political spectrum.

As an aside, Junkyard, your analysis of the Tory party is fundamentally flawed, but this post is sufficiently long, so I will leave that for another time.

Amusing to see the Tories trying to maul the police now...

Usually best buddies.

Guessing May's previous relations with the the police have come back to haunt her.

Bit like Hunt having to go into an NHS hospital for a minor op and the surgeon giving him a little wink and grin as he tells him, "I'm sure you'll be fine Mr Hunt, though we are a little short on doctors, nurses, anaesthetic and antibiotics today..." 😉

First, he was not a government minister at the time, he was an MP.
Second, an MP isn't required to turn up to work, he can represent his constituents as he sees fit,

FFS have some credibility will you 🙄
You really are incredibly loyal to the tories to the point you have abandoned sense, reason and credibility

your analysis of the Tory party is fundamentally flawed

mefty - Member
... your analysis of the Tory party is fundamentally flawed, but this post is sufficiently long, so I will leave that for another time.

Mind you their "social engineering" bots are out in force to "social engineer" at every opportunity. 😆

In the meantime enjoy the "social engineering" while I am off now to drink me Czech larger from Co-op ... 😆

green can look at all the porn he likes

if hes denying that he did and a copper knows otherwise, you can see why he might want to call out Green.

That said some police are bitterly resentful of Theresa Mays time as home sec, year after year numbers & budgets were cut, ask any copper what they think of Theresa May and it will not generate a pleasant response, thats not to say they are anti-tory just that Green being Mays only remaining friend in cabinet wont endear him to the boys in blue

a tricky one to judge

is it in the public interest to expose him if hes repeatedly lying?

You really are incredibly loyal to the tories to the point you have abandoned sense, reason and credibility

Well the reason there was some delay between posts, was I went to the pub where as I often do I ended up chatting to my Lefty pub friend, who is a Human Rights/Immigration lawyer, his ex-wife is a Labour MP, he is mates with many of all those high profile right thinking lawyers etc, his mother is a Corbynista, etc etc. I asked him his view on this and it was basically the same as mine, so I am pretty comfortable with my credibility.

However, he made an incredibly important point. He said whilst we may not worry about the Police exceedingly their remit because it is never going to effect us personally, that is wrong. Every defence lawyer of his acquaintance since Plebgate has used it to sow doubt into the minds of juries of the veracity of Police evidence, sometimes no doubt with sufficient success to obtain acquitals and that has an immediate potential effect on us all and wastes a lot of diligent good work by Police Officers. This case will only reinforce their arguments.

The police recognised that the situation was somewhat unusual and a bit of a legal minefield, and therefore sought guidance from the CPS (i.e. lawyers) about how to proceed, and that advice included searching Green's home and office. So maybe it's (some) lawyers who shouldn't be trusted?

chewkw - Member

Sorry I forgot to mention I used to run my own company ...

I set the rules and me and my business partner used to watch pron all the time.

I've never watched pr0n without the express intent of riding the funsponge direct to town, didn't it interfere with your productivity? Or was pr0n just an alternative to a fish tank, my bank uses BBC News 24, keeps me amused in the queue.

Or was pr0n just an alternative to a fish tank, my bank uses BBC News 24, keeps me amused in the queue.

“Hello, I’d like to make a deposit.”

high levels of liquidity?

Made a withdrawal and lost interest?

Either that or a withdrawal

edit - bugger, too slow

Maybe I should try ATM next time...

His firm friend David Davis is offering to go down with him, touch wood.

my bank uses BBC News 24, keeps me amused in the queue.

Some folk are easily pleased. At the private bank there's no queue but fluffers are available if you want one.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42205329

Police breached confidentiality according to an ex AG.

I’m really uncomfortable about what is happening here*, we have to remember that the grot found was completely unrelated to the purpose of the original police raid.

Now it’s being touted that the police are arbiters of what is in the public interest to release by whatever means.

*obviously I’m laughing at a Tory being caught using his trousers as ankle warmers.

It seems Davies has found his exit from Brexit. Two scalps for the price of one.

Police breached confidentiality according to an ex AG.

True, but at the same time ex-Chief Constable Tim Brain is saying that they've acted in the public interest, and some former PSD boss has said similar.

So really, it's just politicians siding with politicians and police officers siding with police officers.

There are several circumstances within the Data Protection Act where breaches of the confidentiality it demands are excused, one being that it's in the public interest to do so. And that is a matter for a court to decide in the event anyone is prosecuted for breaching it. Section 55 if you're interested.

we have to remember that the grot found was completely unrelated to the purpose of the original police raid

And nothing was said publicly about it for 9 years. It's only come out because someone, rightly or wrongly, thinks it's relevant to the investigation into Green being a sex pest.

Oh come on, what possible link could there be between being an alleged sex pest & someone who amassed a truelly epic pron collection on his works computer and didn’t ever hit his vinegar stroke.... That’s just.

Every defence lawyer of his acquaintance since Plebgate has used it to sow doubt into the minds of juries of the veracity of Police evidence

the charge was you are so loyal deflection wont exactly negate that and I suggest you ask your diverse group of friends if its ok to have tons of porn on a work computer and then ask them about whatabouuterry and non sequiturs 🙄
I had you down as one of the more reasoned right wingers rather than blindly loyal one - there are plenty on the left on here and in the real word as well but its not a great trait IMHO.
Both were out of order and neither have covered themself in glory here
Anyone who cannot see that is just politically motivated be it a lefty ignoring the police actions or a righty ignoring his actions.

Also, the analogy with us watching pornography in work is false.

Damian Green was elected, he can watch porn all he wants for the next four years if he wants, unless he’s convicted of breaking the law or if MPs decide on a recall petition

It's a useful reminder of unintended consequences for the politicians. When you accede to every police request for access/regulation to some new area of private life eventually you (the politician) become the subject of unwarranted intrusion. Privacy is for everyone or no one our police forces know no different way of working as the urge to make/keep/enforce order is deep in their collective psyche.

“I think it’s very dangerous territory for a police officer to be making judgments about whether a politician is lying or not.
It’s something really central to our democracy that police are not involved in politics.’
“That should only happen in a criminal investigation and then, ultimately, is for a court to decide. Police should be extremely careful about making judgments about other people’s morality when it’s not a matter of crime. It’s something really central to our democracy that police are not involved in politics; we are fairly unusual in the United Kingdom in that being the case.”

Quote from former Chief Constable of Manchester, so not just politicians siding with politicians.

However, former Gloucestershire chief constable Tim Brain said that the information was in the public interest.

However, former Gloucestershire chief constable Tim Brain said that the information was in the public interest.

Plenty of public servants in prison after Operation Elvedon who found that defence had limitations for them but still worked for journos.

Does sound more like something that would interest the public rather than something of actual public interest. Police are way over the mark here, however much of an odious creep Damien Green may or may not be.

The discovery of perfectly legal material on a laptop seized during an unrelated enquiry does not constitute 'public interest', however high profile the user.

It's no more the business of the police than it is for them to reveal how much time we spend on work pcs posting shite on here. It's just something which his employer might consider highly inappropriate.

The level of public interest has to be sufficient to overcome the significant duty of confidentiality which the police have to the public. Clearly doesn't get anywhere near in this case, IMO.

You would've thought the former police officers involved would have learned a thing or two from the outcome in the Andrew Mitchell case, that breaking their own rules to settle a grudge or score political points can sometimes not end well for them.

^^^^^^^^ this

mefty, your posts have become increasingly tiresome as is your acting as an apologist for Green.
His credibility is shot.
So much for the assertion repeated long and loud by multiple politicians they '....are rightly held to a higher standard of behaviour'.
Green is either
- a liar so sack him as minister
or
- or incompetent by allowing unchecked access to his computer so sack him as a minister
It's clear that you want to have the last word so, off you go.

Green is either
- a liar so sack him as minister
or
- or incompetent by allowing unchecked access to his computer so sack him as a minister

You get that this is largely irrelevant right?

But this is

But a month ago, Mr Quick disclosed that pornographic material had been found on the seized computer, adding that the police had not pursued the matter at the time or told Mr Green about it

So, 9 years after a police raid. An ex employee takes it on himself to release information to the press.

I’m willing to bet a shiny pound that 9 years ago those pcs were windows XP and you logged on by typing ‘password’

Lots of things non criminal make you unfit for office and get you sacked.
I am willing to bet you are just speculating wildy with no evidence base to the decision.

Slight distraction ...

giantalkali - Member
I've never watched pr0n without the express intent of riding the funsponge direct to town, didn't it interfere with your productivity? Or was pr0n just an alternative to a fish tank, my bank uses BBC News 24, keeps me amused in the queue

Also at another place of work during lunch time I stumbled upon a colleague self-pleasuring himself while watching porn, I should have laughed out loudly but he would be embarrassed or get told off (no one get fired over porn in the far east btw in those days). Imagine trying to keep a straight face talking to him afterward. I mean he was practically in full concentration when I walked into the office during the lunch break.

One of the reason why I don't like people touching my keyboard at my office nowadays. 😀

This could explain why our productivity rates in Britain are so poor. Everyone is sat there at work watching porn, instead of working.

mefty, your posts have become increasingly tiresome as is your acting as an apologist for Green.

Diddums

We are the employers of ALL politicians.

Why should some "social engineers" think their views are more valid than others to fire Green when he is not even found guilty yet? 🙄

It's not even a firing offense other than embarrassment and a warning ...

Diddums

mefty, your posts have become increasingly tiresome as is your acting as an apologist for Green.

They aren't actually, seems you can't take the fact that he's largely right in this respect.

Igm might well have been right about you but he missed out childish 

Some one else who can't stand the idea that mefty is on the right track, so the name calling starts 🙁

😯

No surprises

Anyway back to the thread

Looks like a “fair cop”.... 😉

For those "social engineers", technically you are also [b]in breach of your employment contract[/b] if you are [b]visiting other website(s) that are not work related[/b].

Therefore, for those of you that posted during office hour from your office you are technically [b]in breach of your employment contract[/b].

If you are active on non-work related website(s) during office hour, you are actually abusing your working hour. If you are caught you will be in trouble.

I recall someone on the forum saying their company bans certain cycling website during office hour.

If you are [b]moonlighting on other website(s)[/b] while on company working hour you are also in breach of your employment contract. [b]Worst still if the job is govt funded[/b].

The bottom line.

[b]During working hour your employer own you.[/b]

No ifs or buts you are owned regardless during office hour.

😛

More like “limp wristed”

It is in the public interest.
I want to hear every grubby word and gossip about Tory Politico’s and thier dirty habits, thier lying and backhanded downbeaten one upmanship beastiality and sex pest information, porn gazing squinty eyed think they’re above any moral in the land, tramp kicking exploits.
These aren’t stories made up, these are facts. Here’s been charges laid against them n’all..

Let’s hear them, let’s see them squirm for every teeny amount of credibility they seem to think they have. Then let’s see thier squirmy supporters gobble up the messages and spit and regurgitate the same old platitudes.

There are far more interested parties taking part in this, sitting and waiting whilst the last drip of credibility seeps from the limp throbbing gland.

Bring it on, let’s see them face the Public.

[b]ALL jobs/works/positions etc that are govt funded directly or indirectly are in public interest regardless.[/b]

If you work in[b] [u]public sector WE own you regardless[/u][/b]. 😆

Everyone working in public sector on office hour visiting other websites is in trouble ... technically. 😛

You will face the music if someone reports you. You know who you are.

Some one else who can't stand the idea that mefty is on the right track, so the name calling starts

Ditto THM - back to vicariously insulting me now are you again also very childish but I guess better than having to be insulted directly by you.

PS Good pun 10/10

Bike bouy that's a big world of ditto from me.
I hope his Mrs is giving him hell.

You know you are defending someone who said diddums as a response dont you?

In the context it was used it was a perfectly reasonable response. You picking up on it was just clutching at straws. IMHO.

Diddums

Some of the right wingers here need to at least look to join the TA. I haven’t seen such admirable sense of duty in a long time.

Some of the right wingers here need to at least look to join the TA. I haven’t seen such admirable sense of duty in a long time.

Nice idea, but the upper age limit is 50.

Does the TA have a requirement for a squad of keyboard warriors? Taking down Daesh one Tweet at a time?

😆

Diddums

I thought it rather succinctly encapsulated my worries over someone who has posted more frequently on this thread finding my posts tedious.

Always a good idea to stick to engaging with the arguments made.

Bring it on, let’s see them face the Public.

They do at every election they stand in, maybe you should stand against them if you feel so strongly.

Nice idea, but the upper age limit is 50.

Indeed, I just help out the Church instead.

Oh dear you are in trouble now .....

mefty - Member
They do at every election they stand in, maybe you should stand against them if you feel so strongly

I vote, always have. I have the moral high ground on this. I’m a member of a Political Party who support my ideas and ideals..

Wriggle, squirm, backchat, poke in the eye, nasty little grubby lying Tories.

As said, plenty of more interested people scrutinising every move the Tories make... keep an eye out.

Always a good idea to stick to engaging with the arguments made.

Must be why you just keep talking about the police when asked directly about him even though i agree with you over them - you even quoted me and ignored the points I raised to discuss the police.

I wrote quite a long post explaining why an MP is in a particular position and therefore why conventional employment law is irrelevant and what sanctions are available. This I believe addressed any point you have made about "works" computers etc.

Maybe Damian Green is a non-P member and his computer got filled up with annoying popups?

So the question is - what’s his user name?

Agree with @mefty’s post

I’m a total leftie, but ignoring the unique position of an elected MP and at the same time justifying a blatant breach of confidentiality by an ex police employee is wilful ignorance.

It’s not about sticking one to the nasty tories

ignoring the unique position of an elected MP

I agree they do have a unique position and this means they are held to an even higher standard as they make the laws and are in public office . No one has yet said they can do this in their workplace and not get sacked.

I have not ignored what the ex copper did [ I am tired of agreeing with those who raise it actually but it will get mentioned again on this thread] it was not right either but the method of knowledge is no reason to ignore the message.
Both need addressing

An MP is a unique position and they do not answer to employee law/company regulations the same way we all do.

Which is why it is 100% in the public interest for it to be exposed if an MP is acting in a way at work which would get the rest of us sacked.

How can the electorate get rid of him if his "issues" are covered up?

No one has yet said they can do this in their workplace and not get sacked.

Aside from chewkw, who thinks that having a J Arthur at your desk at work is funny but totally acceptable.

An MP is a unique position and they do not answer to employee law/company regulations the same way we all do.

Which is why it is 100% in the public interest for it to be exposed if an MP is acting in a way at work which would get the rest of us sacked.

How can the electorate get rid of him if his "issues" are covered up?

Thanks for that. I was trying to get my head around this whole business of him not being accountable because he's elected rather than employed. That's the answer right there isn't it - he's accountable to the electorate. That's why it's in the "public interest."

Vengeful coppers try to stitch up conceited twerp. Not very edifying, but that's not the issue for me.

Having a Sherman at your desk during work time whilst accessing grumble on a work PC would get anyone else sacked. It is misconduct. Lying about it to your boss makes it worse.

He deserves to go no matter if the motives of the copper are driven by revenge.

If he takes old thick as mince with him, then that's a Brucey Bonus. And the longer it festers the more damage it is doing to the rotten structure that is the Tories into the bargain. Lovely.

[img] [/img]

https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/937019367572803590

Meanwhile another mp not on planet earth...

Why would she say that?
We must now have stupidest MP’s ever!

because she thinks it's how things are done, probably time to check her internet history - it's easy to do password on a post it under the mouse mat....
Given the sort of information these people deal with there needs to be a proper disciplinary process for such stupidity and a provision of It equipment and rules for use.

So they can download porn at work ?Is this really what someone expects form their MP
I agree they do have a unique position and this means they are held to an even higher standard as they make the laws and are in public office . No one has yet said they can do this in their workplace and not get sacked.

I’ve previously posted the methods that can be used to recall him. He can be sacked from his government position but the options to remove him as an MP are very limited.

MPs can be elected then wander around doing nothing for their entire term if they wish

Computer security is the least of their worries. There was a problem a few years ago with a civil servant stealing sensitive documents from the Home Secretary's safe and then meeting an opposition MP in a bar to hand them over so the MP could leak them to the press. If that sort of thing goes on what hope is there for IT security. I'm just trying to remember who was involved in that, and what the fallout was.......

because she thinks it's how things are done, probably time to check her internet history - it's easy to do password on a post it under the mouse mat....

It probably is how things are done there, you’re ascribing the standards you see at work to them. It’ll be a completely different world.

I know someone who works in IT at stormont. He says it’s like dealing with children with a massive sense of entitlement

Aside from chewkw

I’ve previously posted the methods that can be used to recall him

It probably is how things are done there,

But they shouldnt need the security issues explaining, let alone the simple options to achieve the same outcome without sharing passwords.

That she thinks its ok just goes to show how dim she is, no wonder the Russians are laughing at us.

Nadine Dorries is a proper swivel-eyed halfwit, and a borderline Nazi.

A particularly nasty combination.

If a police officer has come across evidence

Must’ve been good ‘evidence’

(Sorry, late to the party, that one was too good to miss...)

likes.....

Can you name any company or organisation where viewing porn on a work computer via a work network in work's time would be tolerated?

Yeah, a mate was looking at refining his employers website search function. Guess which websites have the best performing search functions? His job was to see if he could search for something and get no results. Apparently you have to have one hell of a vocabulary to break a porn sites search bar.

Just a thought, STW techies...

If I might be serious for but a moment. Why are grumble sites not blocked on MPs computers? Surely there is MDM software that can do that? Airwatch?

You don’t need MDM to block websites, assuming the pcs are all in the same network.