[Closed] Damian Green and the left handed websites

Green is being investigated for sexual harassment, that is obviously serious but I don't see the porn as particularly useful evidence

how about if the sexual harassment turned out to be Green offering to show her "his collection"? would it be relevant then?

Or

She walks into his office, and he's watching one of "his collection" and he just leaves it there, running in the background...

Or,

He points to the laptop and asks if she's seen any...

C'mon it's bloody endless... Of course it's relevant, you'd have to dumb to not think the two might be linked in some way.

Will he get in trouble for not updating the register of (ahem) members' interests?

😀

I wouldn't even draw that correlation. He has flatly denied the sexual misconduct allegation, just as he flatly denies the porn allegation. Frankly, I don't really mind if he was surfing porn or overengineered gnar-chariots on a specialist interest bike website, to me it's the fact he is (allegedly) lying about one and that therefore calls into account whether you believe him on the other. And if he's lying about the other that's a serious misconduct that makes him unfit for public office.

It's not the guilt or otherwise of some (entirely legal) e-grumble, it's whether you can trust him to tell the truth.

frankconway - Member
It's been reported on R4 that David Davis has 'threatened to resign' if Green is sacked.
Two for the price of one

Ha! We’d be so lucky !!

The factor here is [i]who believes anything David Davis says[/i]?

Not I ...

With a woman in the possession of Black Rod for the first time ever too. The mind boggles...

it's whether you can trust him to tell the truth.

If that was the criteria for expulsion the commons would be down to double figures.

I struggle to understand how anyone, whatever job they hold (assuming not in the sex industry), who has been shown to have been looking at porn in work time would not be sacked on the spot.

The nature of it being revealed is a bit strange but doesn't diminish the fact.

Crispin Blunt was wheeled out earlier to say Green is an honourable man, wouldn't have had time to look at 'social' websites;

Is that who I heard on the radio earlier? He referred to them as "leisure websites", which made me laugh, and I forget the exact wording but he implied that Green must be innocent because Tory MPs don't do that sort of thing, which almost made me crash the car.

Anyway,

It's his own fault for not replacing his computer. He should've splashed out on a new one.

He should've splashed out on a new one.

8)

it was on his desktop

Too much information

He could still turn this around if he came out and said he had a porn addiction, then we would have to treat him with sympathy rather than contempt and derision.

Poor man.

This analysis pretty much sums up my view.

[url= http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw95aShDc ]The Grauniad[/url]

Fraid plebgate has diminished my faith in the Met's ability to play by the rules or tell the truth when politicians are involved. Let alone members of the public.

Stuff like releasing non-criminal evidence from an investigation years ago scares me. It should scare us all.

And as far as I'm aware, I have nothing to hide 🙂

Cougar - yes, that was blunt referring to 'leisure sites'.
That's about as dissembling as referring to 'massage parlours'as health clubs.

C'mon it's bloody endless... Of course it's relevant, you'd have to dumb to not think the two might be linked in some way.

We know the circumstances of the allegation because the victim wrote an article about it, it took place in the Archduke near Waterloo, not his office.

Mefty I still think you are being incredibly generous to one side and incredibly harsh to another.. I cannot imagine you being this kind if it was say Corbyn who had been caught this way

I think the Met abusing their position is a very important issue - for the reasons outlined above that is why I said this is the big issue in this story.

If that [lying] was the criteria for expulsion the commons would be down to double figures

Possibly true, but just because everyone does it should we ignore it when there is a/ evidence of it (allegedly) and b/ because it calls into question other lies he may or may not be telling about other allegations.

I know what you said mefty you did not need to repeat it .If you do quote me could you address the points in the quote ?
I still agree over the met I just think its party politics re you not accepting his failing/culpability in all of this.

"All from redirects from the singletrack forum m'lord"

The case for the defence:

What he did wasn't illegal.

The case for the prosecution.

He shouldn't have been looking at grot at work.
He shouldn't have been looking at grot at work whilst being a paid public servant.
He's a Tory.
David Davis says he'll resign in sympathy (oh [b]yes[/b] please).
He's a Tory.

What a shambles. Mind you at least Green knows how to do what he wants on the internet. Trump can't even troll the right Teresa May.

The New Right really are ****ing useless individuals.

Neither of the retired policemen are under the control of the Met any more. Clearly there's bad blood between the Tories and Bob Quick, but when you look at that investigation, the police were directed by the CPS to search Green's home and office. The Toris then made that personal against him. He did of course **** up rather badly a few months later with something else and have to resign. It's not clear to me why it came up again a few weeks ago - was that Bob Quick or the press? This new chap seems to have been prompted to speak up by Green telling lies about Bob Quick - a DPA breach on the grounds of public interest??? Not entirely sure what his notes he's still got are all about since he's retired, that could be a bit naughty.

I'd lose my job if I was looking at porn at work.

And not just because it'd mean I was having a **** in a very public office

David Davis says he'll resign in sympathy (oh yes please).

I'm torn on this. If they replace him with someone competent, I'm not sure whether that's a net gain or loss.

😆

I'm torn on this. If they replace him with someone competent, I'm not sure whether that's a net gain or loss.

Yes, I forgot we are in the post-truth looking glass world.

[img] [/img]

I feel sorry* for our forum Tory shills who feel a duty to come online to defend cretins like Green. Every week there’s a new depth which they have to plumb, poor things.

*Not really.

The thing about the Tories that pisses me off the most (and there is a lot to be pissed off about) is their holier than thou 'austerity is good for you, we are all in this together' sanctimonious, hypocritical bullshit. Clearly not all in it together if your priority is oiling your truncheon in your office whilst being paid by me and all of us.

They deserve to be hoist by their own petard just like Major's government was. 'Back to Basics' with all its sepia-tinted cricket on the green with warm beer afterwards faux morality was debunked pretty much every week when yet another minister was caught with his trousers around his ankles.

That and the colossal balls up that is Brexit. Surely the most all-encompassing balls up of all time.

The thing you need to understand about the current government is that when they say "we," they're not talking about us, they're talking about themselves. Once you realise that, everything becomes clear. Cf. "we need to take back control."

How is it appropriate that an ex policeman can retain information from an investigation like that?

^this. Surely that’s not right and as everyone’s caring about what is right it applies to all?
Personally I couldn’t care less if he’s been looking at porn - I would care more if he said he hadn’t and had been. Like a lot of things at the moment the balance of innocent until proven guilty seems to have shifted.

I think there are two kinds of tory the rich entitled landed gentry typified by Osborne and Mogg or Boris or Dave. Folk who went to private school, were born into wealth and who were always going to be successful. What is good for them is rarely what is good for us. they cannot be expected to understand what its like for the 99%- do you think they have ever even used a bus? Worried about paying a bill. the only working class or poor people they know are the ones they employ. They literally cannot represent us. What is worse is that they ignore the massive headstart they got in life and think they got where they are by personal hard work and endeavour rather than the right connections and immense wealth They think success is the result of hard work - not always as a myriad of cleaners in London will testify, These i despise

the other are gently right wing folk [Carke or heseltine but hardly any left] who think that you should be self reliant and free from govt to do as you please - these folk dislike all govt intervention but crucially they do believe in one nation, helping the needy and social responsibility. these i disagree with but they are decent people

jonnyboi - Member
How is it appropriate that an ex policeman can retain information from an investigation like that?

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

Depends on the end use. In this case he seems to be using it to defend one of his old colleagues from an attack by a hypocritical shitbag who had assumed he could rely on professional silence from other coppers to get away with it.

Not particularly edifying from the copper in question, but bloody entertaining and nice to see a cynical ploy exposed.

It's like the old days of nonces working as teachers, they assumed the worse that would happen would be that they would be moved on because no one wanted to cause a fuss and bring unwelcome attention.

Well, Green has tried to discredit one copper and has almost certainly been caught lying about it. Set a thief to catch a thief. I have no sympathy whatsoever and a part of me actually hopes he keeps doubling down so that the fall is all the greater.

It seems that he is saying that he kept that notebook because he was uneasy with what happened with that investigation.

[devil's advocate] Perhaps he thought there was a cover up and his notebook would end up being destroyed as part of it? If he did think there was a cover up, perhaps he should have just kept quiet about it? [/devil's advocate]

I am amazed that nobody here uses porn ...
Now using it a work is a tad unsubtle ....

But is it illegal ?
If so , we are all going down....

In a belligerent voice: "I am not a crook".

[img] [/img]

Later, in a much more sorrowful tone:

"It's the lie that gets you".

Tough titty.

mrmoofo - Member
I am amazed that nobody here uses porn ...
Now using it a work is a tad unsubtle ....

But is it illegal ?
If so , we are all going down....

POSTED 20 SECONDS AGO # REPORT-POST

Yeah, but it's the lie that is the issue.

Sometimes that's the only way to nail these people. Back them into a corner until they lie as they assume no one will dare expose it. Then expose it.

As for the coppers concerned, it is not particularly edifying, but it is a dish best served cold after all.

[quote=mrmoofo ]I am amazed that nobody here uses porn ...
Now using it a work is a tad unsubtle ....
But is it illegal ?
If so , we are all going down....

No one is surprised that anyone watches porn but like sex we tend to not do it in the office during working hours
Its not illegal but you will run the risk of getting sacked in every workplace

No we are not all going down as I have never watched porn at work

While looking at porn is itself not illegal, there is an offence of misconduct in public office, defined as...[i]'a public officer acting as such, wilfully neglects to perform his duty and/or wilfully misconducts himself, to such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public's trust in the office holder, without reasonable excuse or justification'.[/i]

I think an MP, and especially a minister, using Govt computers to watch porn when he should be working - if that's what he did - is edging into that territory. I mean, shagging someone else's wife isn't illegal, but if I was to take time out of my busy day fighting crime to get my leg over at someone elses house, I'd expect to lose my job.

No we are not all going down as I have never watched porn at work

That's a good point as nor have I.

There was a story back in the early noughties of a bloke at a big five accountancy/consultancy firm who got caught on CCTV actually knocking one out in the office whilst 'working late' and 'left voluntarily' the morning after.

When it is shown that Green is lying and spent hours oiling his truncheon whilst being paid from the public purse, how is it even possible that he can keep his job. How can he look his constituents in the eye as they know for sure that when he could have been acting for them, he was having a tug?

Shagging a secretary? Not great, but if it is outside of work time, who cares?

Being caught bashing the bishop whilst being paid to work (assuming you're not a prostitute or a pron star)? Lose your job.

I am surprised the office cleaner has not come forward saying she was emptying a waste bin full of tissues everyday!!

Like most of us on this forum; we would love to be paid to ride our bikes I.e. a professional cyclist.

Assuming DG was tugging the one eyed snake on work time, does this make him a 'professional w##ker'?

smith - see posts ^^^ re tissues, carpets & curtains.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/parliament-computers-made-250000-attempts-to-access-pornography-at-palace-of-westminster-10418449.html ]This can’t be all him[/url]

If his hand palm grow hairs he is guilty of pleasuring himself otherwise how did they hack his pc? Something fishy. I bet the "social engineers" have something to do with the situation ... 😯

Sorry frank 🙁

I have never watched porn at work ...
But I also do not have admin rights on my work PC as to who loads stuff ....

I would wait until the facts come out ...
Maybe he is a ****er ...
Maybe he is not ....

None of us actually knows, but there is something slight stinky about to all ...

Green is not actually paid by the hour ... so if he decides to tug one off during work hours, it is not sackable offence ....
So, those who have not sinned , throw the first stone ...

What the govt needs to do now is to investigate how sensitive information is hacked from govt office.

There is a clear security breach somewhere. Yes, adult watching adult porn in public office is naughty but Not a security breach. The person (Green on adult porn) should be warned if found guilty.
[b]
The hacking of the ministerial computer is much more serious. [/b]

The question is how did the other person hack his pc ... the starting point of the investigation should be him. Did he sell the information?

Not paid by the hour and using the work computer, in your work office, whilst logged in, inbetween sending emails from your work acct.

Something stinks. On the plus, hasn't Dave Davis said he would resign if the whitch hint of DG continues. Game on...

Crispin Blunt is on again; further attempts at deflection.
No more attempts, yet, at character assassination of Quick and/or Lewis.

Chewkw - has anyone yet said that Green''s pc was hacked?

So, those who have not sinned , throw the first stone ...

Ok. Where is the pile of stones?

frankconway - Member
Crispin Blunt is on again; further attempts at deflection.
No more attempts, yet, at character assassination of Quick and/or Lewis.

Chewkw - has anyone yet said that Green''s pc was hacked?

The question is how did the content of his PC leak to the public?

I mean watching adult porn in public office is naughty if found guilty but how did the information came about in the first place? That is much more of a concern.

Isn't there a protocol on the way govt computer HD be securely disposed off?

We are talking about stash of porn on [b][u]computer HD[/u][/b] ...
The other person actually read all the emails then took notes, so if that is Not a breach of security protocol what is?

Green is not actually paid by the hour ... so if he decides to tug one off during work hours, it is not sackable offence .

I said the same thing to the headmaster but he was having none of it

I can no longer tell what is Poes law on the internet and what is abject stupidity

chewk, before starting go back and read the thread / some news stories on it.

The computer wasn't hacked. It was investigated as part of an investigation into leaked government memos at which point it was found.

At the time it wasn't material specific to the investigation but was mentioned to the house committee as its discovery had 'complicated the inquiry'.

For some reason it was deleted from the records of the enquiry (and a second, the Leveson enquiry) at which point the policeman became suspicious about why - on the basis that if anyone else had done it at work they'd be thrown out. And decided, wrongly to keep a copy of the info in the form of his notebook.

Then nothing for 6 years, until Green was accused of sexual misconduct by a political activist, which he denied. The Times ran a story on the porn, which Green has also denied. The policeman that made the report to the enquiry initially was accused of a political smear (might also be true) and hence now this policeman (retired) has made his (illegally kept) records available.

No hacking, data (photographs) found entirely legally as part of an admittedly different investigation.

abject stupidity

People trying to defend the indefensible because their doctrinal blindness can't allow them to do anything else rarely results in anything else.

DannyH ..
Yup, you aright ... politicians have never, ever done anything outside of the norm.

Hookers and drugs have never, ever had a part to lay in Westminster ...

When Jeremy was humping Diane Abbott, was that on the lock, or off the clock?

theotherjonv - Member
chewk, before starting go back and read the thread / some news stories on it.

The computer wasn't hacked. It was investigated as part of an investigation into leaked government memos at which point it was found.

At the time it wasn't material specific to the investigation but was mentioned to the house committee as its discovery had 'complicated the inquiry'.

For some reason it was deleted from the records of the enquiry (and a second, the Leveson enquiry) at which point the policeman became suspicious about why - on the basis that if anyone else had done it at work they'd be thrown out. And decided, wrongly to keep a copy of the info in the form of his notebook.

Then nothing for 6 years, until Green was accused of sexual misconduct by a political activist, which he denied. The Times ran a story on the porn, which Green has also denied. The policeman that made the report to the enquiry initially was accused of a political smear (might also be true) and hence now this policeman (retired) has made his (illegally kept) records available.

No hacking, data (photographs) found entirely legally as part of an admittedly different investigation.

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

This.

But Chewie knows this anyway. It's the squid approach.

Push out clouds of ink and hope some people latch onto the distraction.

[img] [/img]

theotherjonv - Member
The computer wasn't hacked. It was investigated as part of an investigation into leaked government memos at which point it was found.

Something fishy on all sides. 😯

Obviously he is naughty if found guilty and should be warned.

I cant believe people are defending him, you really think we pay taxes to fund Mr Green tickling his pickle?

He can tug it until he is blind is his own time for all I care but using public money (and IT equipment) should mean being instantly sacked.

I know someone who got sacked for having a **** in stockroom...

When Jeremy was humping Diane Abbott, was that on the lock, or off the clock?

I assume it was out of work hours, otherwise they should be in bother too - can't pile into your work colleagues whilst your being paid to work.

Proving it might be difficult, though. Computer records are a bit more precise.

Shit happens.

wiggles - Member
I cant believe people are defending him, you really think we pay taxes to fund Mr Green tickling his pickle?

I am not defending him but it is not really a "hanging" offense is it. 🙄 I mean adult watching adult porn is really not a crime is it.

However, holding public office while watching adult porn is an embarrassment to everyone but really ... 🙄

Read the reports and explain what's fishy please. Someone was leaking government memos to the press and the police were asked to investigate. In doing so they allegedly found porn on Green's computer.

Why's that fishy?

I am not defending him but it is not really a "hanging" sentence is it.

No, but it isn't appropriate use of work resources and would see you, me or most others dismissed immediately.

But as I said before - he's been accused of sexual misconduct which he denies, so it's his word against his accuser's.

He's also been accused of having porn on his computer which he denies. But it seems there might be evidence that would prove he's lying. And if he's a liar in that case, can you see why that might make people less likely to take his word on the very serious other allegation.

Clearer now?

Simple version is that as a workplace it will have an IT policy, that IT policy will say no looking at porn on this computer. Same as everywhere else.

Well Blunt's extended waffling has just ended; complete failure to answer any of the simple and direct questions; attempting to talk over the interviewer.
Green has been effectively damned by his mate's attempts at obfuscation and diversion.

Chewkw - let's just assume that you are suspected of committing fraud at work and the investigation finds that you have accessed porn sites from your work computer; are you saying that this should be ignored as the investigation was into fraud rather than inappropriate use of a work computer?
Can you name any company or organisation where viewing porn on a work computer via a work network in work's time would be tolerated? It is not viewed as 'naughty'; it is a sackable offence. It's not the same as shanking one out at home or in a hotel (bedroom)
The risks of malware from porn sites have been well documented so that's a further cause for concern.
To repeat part of an earlier post - if Green is lying he should be fired; if someone else accessed and used his computer with Green's credentials he should be sacked for incompetence.

Do you understand the principle of disclosure in the public interest?
Former head of professional standards with the Met has stated today that he does not believe there any grounds for prosecuting Lewis.

theotherjonv - Member
Someone was leaking government memos to the press and the police were asked to investigate.

So the police may have stumbled up his stash of porn but that is an embarrassment to the govt and the person holding the office, but not really a crime for "hanging offense" is it.

I edited my previous post but it's fallen off the page now, so I'll repost the edit....

I am not defending him but it is not really a "hanging" sentence is it.

But as I said before - he's been accused of sexual misconduct which he denies, so it's his word against his accuser's.

He's also been accused of having porn on his computer which he denies. But it seems there might be evidence that would prove he's lying. And if he's a liar in that case, can you see why that might make people less likely to take his word on the very serious other allegation.

Clearer now why the presence of porn or not is almost a side issue, it's the lying bit that is the situation?

So the police may have stumbled up his stash of porn but that is an embarrassment to the govt and the person holding the office, but not really a crime for "hanging offense" is it.

Not a hanging offence; hanging was abolished decades ago.
Chewkw - I'm sure that even you have heard politicians say that '....it is right they are held to a higher standard'.
I expect that Green has probably said that at some point in his political career; would be good if some enthusiastic journo could prove it.

Dirty little Tory!

Bet it included a bit of beasteality too.

Dirty boy.

frankconway - Member
Chewkw - let's just assume that you are suspected of committing fraud at work and the investigation finds that you have accessed porn sites from your work computer; are you saying that this should be ignored as the investigation was into fraud rather than inappropriate use of a work computer?
Can you name any company or organisation where viewing porn on a work computer via a work network in work's time would be tolerated?

If you are investigating fraud then your priority is fraud. Adult porn is not illegal but embarrassment. Fraud or Adult porn?

So if you cannot find the fraud and you then decide the "second best find in adult porn" will do for now to protect own job? 😯

Doubt it Poops; that's illegal and would cop him a court appearance and possible spell inside.

mikewsmith - Member
Go fire up your work computer and visit some porn sites. See what happens

Because it isnt personal if you do it in work?

frankconway - Member
Doubt it Poops; that's illegal and would cop him a court appearance and possible spell inside.

Just being a little glib to be honest.

That said, in a normal world in such office he would probably resign.

Not though illegality but out of self dignity and respect for his position.

Not a normal world anymore though.

Chewkw - your attempts at verbal gymnastics and logical pirouettes are pathetic.
If you're employed and have a work computer, log onto some porn sites and tell us what happens when your activity is detected by IT.
Why do you think so many organisations use content blocking software and other filters?

wiggles - Member
Because it isnt personal if you do it in work?

Where do you draw the line between personal and work?

Can your employer read all your personal emails because you access them via [b]company time[/b]?

🙄

frankconway - Member
Why do you think so many organisations use content blocking software and other filters?

Interesting point. If that is the case why is the current news? Surely they have something in place to prevent that is it not?

Put it this way until he is found guilty you are at best speculating his guilt.

You judge the person before he is found guilty.

Let him go through the due process before condemning the person.

The line is it is work for the bit of the day you are getting paid and should be doing something else?

Can your employer read all your personal emails because you access them via company time?

wiggles - Member
The line is it is work for the bit of the day you are getting paid and should be doing something else?

If that is your explanation then basically your employer own all of you during the paid hour is it not? Therefore, if they demand to read all your email correspondence on the day they can do so. i.e. including email account(s) that does not belong to the company.

Is that right?

Yes, ive worked for companies/goverment agencies where they tell you that any communications on your work computer can be accessed by the IT department if asked for.

yes, it's almost certainly in your terms and conditions. It is in mine. My employer has a 'reasonable' use policy so don't complain about a bit of email / web surfing but still maintain the right to monitor in case it becomes excessive or inappropriate. Thousands of porn images, would probably count in both respects......