[Closed] Daft F1 question

Isn't the zone where it can be used predefined for each track?
Then, not for the first two laps, and only if you are less than a second behind.
Cpntrolled by the FIA I assume, via computer magic.
[url= http://www.f1rules.com/f1-drs/ ]http://www.f1rules.com/f1-drs/[/url]
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Reduction_System ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Reduction_System[/url]

EDIT That video is better

sensors measure the gap between you and the car in front at certain points and then enable it so the driver can use it ...if you are not within this zone you cannot operate it hence it is inoperable at rest so to speak and has to be enabled

splendid, thanks.

I think at Canada there will be two zones where you can use it.

I think at Canada there will be two zones where you can use it.

And Valencia

I think at Canada there will be two zones where you can use it.

And Valencia

And none in Monaco...

And none in Monaco...

I thought they were, have they recently changed their minds?

And another thing..... (thick content)

Why don't they use low profile tyres given that performance cars on the road allegedly 'need' low profile tyres for optimal grip etc?

They need fatter tyres for suspension init?

Am i right in thinking fuel stops no longer exist in F1? Was this banned on safety grounds? Next logical step in my opinion would be to get rid of pitstops all together by making a tyre capable of running an entire race. Then drivers would have to race instead of relying on pit strategy to gain track position innit.

re-fuelling was banned to promote over taking on the track instead of overtaking during the pitstops.
As for tyre size I haven't a clue why mainly due to regs and that they have plenty of experience in the aerodynamics so they feel no need to change. iirc Michelin wont become a tyre manufacture because the tyre size isn't a low profile so doesn't fit their marketing strategy.
And yes there is now a drs zone in/after the tunnel in Monaco. so there may be a few crashes I reckon as it sounds mental to have it there

i like this whole DRS, no re-fuelling, tyres that 'fall off the cliff' and leave 'marbles' of rubber all over the track and boooooooost (kers or however it's spelt). races are much more exciting to watch, lots of overtaking, constantly changing leader board, having to pit first instead of last... good stuff.

next stage is banana skins and red/green shells

Tyre size and the high sidewall is due to the wheel diameter being fixed in regs at 13".

Another thing about tyres is around 50% of the suspension travel is in the tyres, which is why tyre pressures are so critical.

Why don't they use low profile tyres given that performance cars on the road allegedly 'need' low profile tyres for optimal grip etc?

Wouldn't the incredible amount of power produced by F1 cars just rip lo-pro tyres to shreds?

And they're very soft compared to normal road tyres, so lo-pros would be down to the carcass within a lap or two, surely?

At any rate, with just a couple of cm of suspension, I'd imagine having large volume tyres is a bonus.

F1 is a sport which is full of regulations designed to keep the speed down, and designers who try to overcome the restrictions.

Lower profile tyres can provide higher grip, but the biggest reason to have them is to enable a larger brake disc to fit inside the wheel.

Extreme low profile tyres are just a fashion accessory and make driving horrible. Look at the new Mini rally cars. They use something like 195/65 tyres. One of the best handling saloon cars was the Mk1 BMW M3. It had 175/70s

Bit I'm finding this season dull. If you watch the race, you've got absolutely no idea who's doing well or badly until the last 10 or so laps afrter the tyre strataegy's played out, and then it's just a slithery procession to the flag.

Wouldn't the incredible amount of power produced by F1 cars just rip lo-pro tyres to shreds?

And they're very soft compared to normal road tyres, so lo-pros would be down to the carcass within a lap or two, surely?

I'm asking perfectly reasonable questions. If you can't answer them, fine. No need to be an arse though is there?

Why don't they use low profile tyres given that performance cars on the road allegedly 'need' low profile tyres for optimal grip etc?

Because that 'need' is bollocks. Low profile tyres are mostly about looks (and ruining the ride of your car).

OK, the answer to your questions are:
No
and
No

Being a low pro tyre has nothing to do with how much rubber it has, or how durable that rubber is.

Well come on then, clever clogs; explain why.

And normal road car tyres are as soft as F1 tyres are they?

normal road car tyres are as soft as F1 tyres are they?

Why is it you think low pro tyres would be less durable?

Well I'd imagine the stresses on the sidewalls would be too much for a lo-pro tyre.

However I could be completely wrong, which is why I asked the question.

I'm sure there are good reasons why F1 stuff is the way it is, in spite of whatever regulations may limit things.

I don't think you actually know though, and are merely just trying to look clever by pouring scorn on someone else.

I can't help it if you feel unfulfilled and undervalued in life. Don't take it out on me please.

When the current negotiations were taking place for the supply of tyres [which Pirelli won], Michelin's pitch was to move to 18" rims and low profile tyres

I'd imagine the stresses on the sidewalls would be too much for a lo-pro tyre.

Just examining how you came up with these ideas which don't appear to be based on anything very scientific - I already gave a very basic explanation.

Don't try and transfer your personal inadequacies in my direction 😉

I know it wasn't directed at me, BUT, Is there any need for this:

[bitching]

I can't help it if you feel unfulfilled and undervalued in life. Don't take it out on me please.

i think im right in saying that instead of the stresses going into the sidewall, they go into the wheel rim if it is a low profile tyre, and so they wear out no quicker.

On the tyre compond point..............

Average track day rule of thumb is something like 20laps = 1000 miles of wear and tear on the car/tyres/brakes etc.

So 60 laps = F1 race = 3000 miles 'normal wear and tear'.

Normal car ~100bph, F1 car ~800bhp.

Assuming tyre wear is proportional to power, the F1 car is actualy doing the equivalent to 24,000miles to a set of tyres, which is pretty good going!

Bit I'm finding this season dull.

😯

So 60 laps = F1 race = 3000 miles 'normal wear and tear'

Which track has a 50 mile lap?

uplink - Member
Which track has a 50 mile lap?

I think he's assuming that 100hp compared to 800 hp results in 8x the wear.

So 20 = 1000
60 = 3000
3000 x 8 = 24000

Assuming tyre wear is proportional to power, the F1 car is actualy doing the equivalent to 24,000miles to a set of tyres, which is pretty good going!

Sometimes the fronts wear out quicker than the rears too.

Bit I'm finding this season dull.

and unless you're privy to the teams' tyre strategies

TBH, I'm not entirely sure they have much more than a very basic strategy until well into the race. They're continually re-evaluating and reacting to conditions and track position.
As we know what tyres they have available and the rules governing what they use first [for the top 10], it's not too difficult to figure out.
On most circuits the front runners will have 2 basic strategies, they'll usually decide which one after the first few laps

Elfinsafety - Member
Well I'd imagine the stresses on the sidewalls would be too much for a lo-pro tyre.

Stresses on the sidewalls are actually likely to be higher on larger profile tyres than on smaller ones....pressure dependent of course.

uplink - Member
As we know what tyres they have available and the rules governing what they use first [for the top 10], it's not too difficult to figure out.

+1

Bit I'm finding this season dull. If you watch the race, you've got absolutely no idea who's doing well or badly until the last 10 or so laps afrter the tyre strataegy's played out, and then it's just a slithery procession to the flag.

You mean like Sebastien Vettel going backwards at the end of the Chinese GP or Lewis Hamilton pushing Vettel all the way to the end yesterday?
Moto Gp fanboy at all?

Bit I'm finding this season dull. If you watch the race, you've got absolutely no idea who's doing well or badly until the last 10 or so laps afrter the tyre strataegy's played out, and then it's just a slithery procession to the flag.

Dull? You need to check yourself for a pulse.

I'm no brainbox, but I managed to follow what was going on, who was running what tyres, who had a set of softs left etc, facinating.

If F1 is anything this year, it is not a procession.

I can't wait to see if tyre wear will have an effect on the ability to overtake in Monaco

F1 is going low-profile in the near future. Wheel rim sizes are due to go up to 18", but I believe Pirelli have asked for a delay of a season or so. 2013 at the earliest, 2014 more likely.

I have to admit to be confused as hell when I could see Vettel, Hamilton and then Alonso just behind them towards the end of the race yesterday, but I was in a bar and couldn't hear the race! They were lapping him though, so I'd have to agree it has got a little more confusing. Still thought it was pretty good for a Spanish GP yesterday, Button dropping to 10th on lap one, Vettel not leading from the start and being forced to race, Hamilton pretty mch within a second of Vettel for the last phase of the race. Loads going on!

I think the reason for keeping high profile tyres is due to the limited suspension movement current f1 cars have, most of the suspension comes from the tyres. Would be a lot of re-designing to go low profile i would guess, big commitment cost wise..
A lot of what is termed steering feel comes from the deformation (think thats the right term) of the side wall of the tyre under load, another bonus of taller tyres. 😉

I'm not a motor sport engineer, but I suspect high profile tyres are important for car setup/balance.
Understeer and oversteer characteristics are very dependent on tyre slip angles (the angle between the contact patch and the rest of the tyre/wheel). Slip angles occur due to deformation in the tyre, and I would think high profiles tyres give more adjustment in slip angle by varying pressure than a low profile tyre would.

Michelin were keen for low profile tyres on the basis that they're more road car relevant. The F1 teams are against it to some extent because they'll have to significantly redesign their cars to cope with the different characteristics.

18" wheels are already used in sportscar racing (Le Mans cars), so they're not unusual and can easily cope with the demands of racing.

The biggest thing to get used to would be the change of the look of the cars as this mock-up of a Virgin with 18" wheels shows...

[img] [/img]

I was just about to say the endurance racers tyre are low profile and last a long time. peugeot at last years le mans were doing 12 laps in a stint before they needed re fuelling. The tyres were doing 4 stints before they needed changing. Bearing in mind a lap is about 8 miles long they were doing 386 miles on a set of tyre so well over a race distance in f1 which is roughly 200 miles.
So there is no problem with a low profile lasting the distance or being engineered like the pirelli to fall off of a cliff. there probably would be less marbles though as there is less carcass of the tyre to shed