[Closed] Dadsnet/Mumsnet - NCT classes - useful or a waste of money?

We didn't go the NCT route and just went to the one antenatal class offered by the local PCT. The NHS class was of limited use. We have made loads of friends through the various baby groups since the little one came along and plenty of them are also in touch with their former NCT groups. If you can afford it I'd say you might as well go for it. Support of folk in the same boat can be invaluable as baby looms.

no first hand experience, but all the people I know who have done NCT blather on constantly about all the things they've done with their NCT group...

It's all blah blah barbecue this, and blah blah camping trip that.

Not one of them has mentioned anything that they've actually learnt on the course, it seems to be just a good way of meeting people who are in the same boat.

Dave

We just did the one day session with NHS, which was very good. It was much more informative than I expected and the midwives were very approachable. A breast feeding specialist came along too and was also very informative. I don't think there were any teens at our class - virtually everyone was late 20's+.
Our friends did NCT and NHS and the thought the NHS to be better. But it's down to you really.
Apparently NCT is good if you are new to an area/ want to make new friends etc.

You will be the one stuck at home getting cabin fever - the friends you make at NCT can be invaluable.

Or as happened to us, the group might just not gel, some people go straight back to work full time, move away or what ever and it was always more effort than reward trying to get the group together. After hosting the first and second birthdays for the whole group at our house we declined to offer for a third time. 🙄

As it happens Mrs Nut is going for a drink tonight with some girls from the NHS antenatal class.

Having said that I would still go to the NCT one as the majority of people appear to get some good friends out of it.

Useful for the basic coping stuff and how to look after the baby, breast feeding etc, as long as you remember that NCT 'instructors' (or whatever they call themselves) are a self selecting group who have had 'perfect' births and are fully signed up to avoiding medical intervention (our instructor (and her NCT assessor who sat in on the sessions were both incredibly negative about any form of medical help). This left 4 out of the six mothers in our group feeling as if they had somehow failed after their births.

I am keen to go to NCT classes as I think they will be useful and will allow us to meet new people our age who are expecting at a similar time. We don't have any friends as such in the town we live in.

My riding circle has significantly come together through contacts gained in NCT classes 🙂

We did the NCT classes before our first child & it was useful from the point of view of meeting & making friends with other new prospective parents. Now that we've done the parent thing (twice), I'd take the NCT attitude with a huge dose of salt. In my experience they are extremely anti-painkiller, pro-breastfeeding (virtually demonising the alternative) and not a little self-righteous. Fact of life...sometimes breastfeeding doesn't work out, and usually painkillers are bloody marvellous during childbirth (or so my wife tells me). Keep that in mind & I think the classes can be helpful.

We went to the one day NHS bit. Told us most of the info we needed to know, it was good. There was one teen, everyone else was 20s ish except for one couple who were mid to late 40s and looked really self conscious! 🙂 It was done by our actual midwives too which was nice.

PS Top tip for breastfeeding - you don't feed the baby, it feeds itself from you.

Richie_B - Member
Useful for the basic coping stuff and how to look after the baby, breast feeding etc, as long as you remember that NCT 'instructors' (or whatever they call themselves) are a self selecting group who have had 'perfect' births and are fully signed up to avoiding medical intervention (our instructor (and her NCT assessor who sat in on the sessions were both incredibly negative about any form of medical help). This left 4 out of the six mothers in our group feeling as if they had somehow failed after their births.

^^ this

NCT itself is a bit gaga. But you do get a chance to make some new friends who will have kids your own kids ages. In fact this weekend we had two other "NCT" families over and all the kids went off and played.

(Its the health visitors and district midwives you want to avoid. Bunch of under-educated quacks the lot of them. They "invite" themselves into your home and spout crap at you. Just tell them to ****off. You are not obliged to meet them.)

We did both and both were good. Bear in mind the comments above about NCT but we learnt from both. Meeting local folk in the same situation is the most useful aspect.

Good luck!

Course was shit, but it was worth it to meet people going through the same thing at the same time. Fortunately i was away biking for quite a few of the sessions.

Bang on about the negativity. For my wife though, she doesn't know many local people who don't work full time so it was good for her to have poeple to meet up with during her maternity leave.

Same as Richie B. I know a few young mums who went to the NCT and really felt that it was a superior mums club for middle class and above. Just a funny little vibe that they got and didn't go back.
We did the NHS antenatal and it was very informative, helpful, non judgemental.
Go NHS.

For a fella it blooming hard work... super dull.

But

I would defo recommend it for the social side.

My wife is still very much in contact with some of the other mothers, 4 years on. The ladies you do your course with, could very well turn out to be a great support group… very much recommended.

Just let your bloke skip the beast feeding session !

I had forgotten about the anti-intervention stuff.

The course could have done with a bit that covered what happens if you dont have a "perfect" birth. as what actually happened to us bore not relation to what we covered in class.

Funnily enough, about to book on one ourselves. We have no close family nearby so I reckon it would be nice to have a support network. Also interested in opinions.

go to the classes. they are great for mums who have no existing support network/friends with kids the same age. less so for dads but you have to show a bit of willing as you did you bit to be in this situation!

they go on about the breast feeding a bit and, while there are some benefits (mainly dad gets to sleep for the 3 months while mum is feeding) my 2 bottle fed kids (for various reasons) are just as bonkers as the 1 breast fed.

I was very wary for some of the reasons above - not sure I wanted to make random friends just 'cause they happened to be having a kid at the same time as us, hidden (or even open) agenda from the NCT and all that. We're going through a big change so not sure I wanted a bunch of strangers involved. However, we've also not got much support locally.

It's obvious that the courses vary massively.

Had our last session last week and overall the level of advise was excellent, very down the line and factual. We discussed options openly from natural to assisted birth, feeding (breast versus bottle), parenting styles, nappies (natural or disposable) - all very informative, realistic and non judgemental but with benefits and drawbacks cleary explained. Lots of topics covered that friends on other NCT or NHS didn't get so we got lots of info both about birth and aftercare.

Plus, we'll admit, the social side appealed - more likely to meet people with a similar situation/perspective in NCT and it turns out overall everyone form our group is decent and similar outlook. Friends for life? Not sure yet. Useful peer support? Yeah, looking good. All the girls have been meeting for cake pre birth.

We've only stayed in touch with one family we met via NCT and we'd have met them anyway as they live just round the corner. The social thing is useful for some but most of the other parents we get on with we met after the birth via playgroups and that.

Contrary to what others are saying I actually found our NCT group leader was very positive and helpful about what happens if the natural-birth approach doesn't work, she did a big session about the various interventions and I'm genuinely glad I was there. When our boy was born my wife started out doing it all natural in a nice hippy-dippy birthing suite, then tried gas and air cos it wasn't happening, then when things started going properly wrong we moved on to a childbirth ward where they broke out the syntocinon and epidural before wheeling her into the operating theatre for an emergency section. If we hadn't gone through all the possibilities at NTC beforehand I would have been significantly more panicked by it all. You feel properly daft acting it all out in the group beforehand but when someone's hooked up to a load of weird-looking machines that go beep it helps to know that it's still normal, run of the mill stuff for the doctors and midwives. No-one was judgemental afterwards either.

I have to disagree about midwives being "under-educated quacks". Our midwife was one of a very few pragmatic and genuinely helpful professionals we dealt with, she even went massively out of her way to help my wife when she had very severe PND after the birth, and after she was supposed to have signed off completely she still checked up on us informally. Like any profession there are good ones and bad ones, don't write them all off just because one of them was a bit useless.

(Apart from breast-feeding counsellors, they can all * right off, * judgemental nazis the lot of them, and they really [i]are[/i] under-educated.)

I have a 3 month old baby and we chose to do NCT classes.
I found it very informative and interesting, and would disagree that it's dull for Dads.
The classes are useful and they give you good knowledge of what to expect, but what has been invaluable for us has been the support that you get from having eight other couples nearby to swap stories, worries and concerns with once baby has come along. This has been brilliant for my wife and she has made some great friends too.
My only caveat is that NCT are mercilessly pro-breast feeding (which the NHS are also), on the verge of brain-washing, so keep an open mind and try to learn about bottle feeding as well as it is often the case that you don't have a choice about how you feed your baby so you need to understand different ways of doing it.
The blokes go for regular drinks too, so it's a good excuse for your other half to get bevvied whilst not wholly shirking his responsibilities as a father.

Never bothered with NCT ourselves.

The main focus seemed to be alternative birth options etc, which were never an option for us anyway.

We did go to a (free) NHS class on breastfeeding which was excellent and really helped us later.

I think the main reason folk go to NCT is to meet other mums in the area. We found we soon made good friends at the various baby massage, swimming, tumble tots, soft play etc

For us, the whole thing was quite useful, and the group of friends afterwards was a nice bonus too.

Contrary to what others are saying I actually found our NCT group leader was very positive and helpful about what happens if the natural-birth approach doesn't work, she did a big session about the various interventions and I'm genuinely glad I was there.

Yes, us too. It seems like a bit of a lottery obviously from the posts above, but they aren't necessarily pushing a particular thing as the only possible thing and everything else as failure.

(Apart from breast-feeding counsellors, they can all * right off, * judgemental nazis the lot of them, and they really are unqualified.)

Our NCT group leader was also one of these and was jolly useful, so again not guaranteed whether they are good or bad.

The midwife was good too.

Don't get me started on our health visitor though - pretty much everyone locally doesn't get on with this one particular health visitor, heard a few stories now.

Some breast feeding councillors are ok. Some are ineffective, and we never saw one who explained what we really needed to know and found out by ourselves.

I think the reason they become a bit strident is that they meet a lot of people who just can't be bothered putting any work in to give their baby what's best for it. The people who really have genuine problems with it get a lot of guilt by association.

Let the flaming begin.

We did NCT. I wouldn't do it again.

On the positive side we didn't know that many people in the area and it meant that my wife had a support group of other mums on the run-up and following the birth of our son.

The dad's weren't all that sociable though, and the group as a whole was (predictably for where we lived at the time) a bit monocultural. Lots of bankers and the like with big 4x4s... we got some funny looks turning up in our VW van.

There was some useful stuff in the classes themselves but as others have pointed out, it's all a bit earth motherish. Militantly pro breastfeeding and natural childbirth.... that's fair enough, and certainly something which we were hoping for but at one one point our instructor told us in all seriousness that 90% of emergency caesareans weren't needed, which I actually thought was a pretty dangerous thing to say.

The result of this was that my wife felt under unreasonable pressure to have both a natural birth and to breast feed. As it turned out she had a really difficult labour, our son having moved into a breech position towards the end. She required an epidural and eventually an emergency caesarean which was just terrifying - it all came good in the end, but required a long time for both here and the baby to recover. We had some problems with breastfeeding initially, but stuck with it - although my wife (largely as a result of the NCT advice) felt really terrible guilt at the fact that we had to use formula top-ups. This, and the whole "competitive parenting" thing which developed in the group amongst some of the mums (some of the babies apparently slept through the night at 8 weeks!) probably contributed to a serious bout of postnatal depression.

If you do decide to go to NCT, my advice would be to speak to people who've been to the same group and see what their opinion of the instructor and the group was, and to take any advice with a liberal sprinkling of salt. It's your child and you who need to make the decisions about what is best for them and you.

We did the antenatal class offered by the local PCT/NHS, which were good and useful to us both. The Mrs has met loads of friends through local groups and baby sessions (baby yoga, baby massage, baby kung-fu etc).

The NCT route works if you want to find middle class friends, but IMHO not worth paying for over PCT/NHS in terms of finding out information to help look after a baby.

I think the reason they become a bit strident is that they meet a lot of people who just can't be bothered putting any work in to give their baby what's best for it. The people who really have genuine problems with it get a lot of guilt by association.

+1
the majority that I've come across/ heard of have one approach to counseling which caters for parents of babies who are arguably in most need of counsel; problems occur when the problems parents are having require a different approach and the counselor doesn't have the capacity to modify their advice.

Its the health visitors and district midwives you want to avoid. Bunch of under-educated quacks the lot of them. They "invite" themselves into your home and spout crap at you. Just tell them to ****off. You are not obliged to meet them.)

I found the absolute opposite to this. Having someone come to your home regularly when you have a new baby does two things (i) gives you the chance to ask questions and provide reassurance all is well (ii) allows them to ensure the baby is well cared for, which I'm sure isn't required for most people on here, but is in the interest of many babies.

I would do them, I didn't do NCT classes but was lucky enough to latch on to my friends NCT group so made lots of friends through that.

You don't really NEED the course content as such particularly if you are the type to read up by yourself, also agreed on the taking the course with a pinch of salt, though I know a local NCT teacher who is not at all militant, etc, I think some are a bit though. I did a course with some local independent midwives and it was awful - I asked what would happen if you had a c-section and the silly bitch said "Oh that won't happen don't worry". (I did have a c-section (x2 with the second as well) - it was fine and I don't particularly feel like I missed out on much :-)) Oops went off on a bit of a rant there.

It's also nice to have other people who are pregnant at the same stage as you to get excited with and discuss boring stuff like what pram to buy, etc. (I was lucky that I had 2 good friends pregnant at the same time anyway and it was really nice to have)

Oh I do have a friend who met a lovely group through NHS classes as well, but I think this is more rare.

And congratulations 🙂

problems occur when the problems parents are having require a different approach and the counselor doesn't have the capacity to modify their advice

Well to be fair they don't necessarily know which is which.

Didn't go to NCT, and from what i saw of the participants, it met the stereotype, but so what.

Our NHS classes were great, massive range of backgrounds and ages. It covered all the important stuff form birth to the first few weeks. Don't know why you'd want to drag this out for NCT apart from to make friends, but you have plenty of opportunity for that later. My Wife also found the NHS breast feeding class even more useful.

I'd also disagree about the district midwives and health visitors - both were excellent in our area - well informed, supportive and non judgemental.

Sounds like experiences of both NCT and NHS advice vary a lot depending on where you live.

I thought NCT was great - I felt very well informed about what to expect with the birth and afterwards, and the instructor wasn't at all pushy about breastfeeding or home births. We also both greatly appreciated having a wider support network of friends in the same situation - for example we now have a baby sitting circle.

Some breast feeding councillors are ok. Some are ineffective, and we never saw one who explained what we really needed to know and found out by ourselves.

NHS breastfeeding class was excellent. Very much everything we needed to know. Lots of stuff I didn't know. Lots of expectations suitably set in terms of what to expect and how hard it may be at times.

I think the reason they become a bit strident is that they meet a lot of people who just can't be bothered putting any work in..

I think there is some truth in that. Obviously not everyone can successfully breastfeed - and if they've given it a fair go but can't continue for a good reason then fair enough.

But there are lots of bad reasons too - like social barriers and bad advice from grandparents - that have to be challenged a bit.

Example: breastfeeding takeup in low income groups is significantly lower than takeup in middle income groups. Odd given that formula is so expensive, but it largely seems down to social influence.

We did it and made some friends that are still friends, and met some people we'd happily never talk to again.

The NCT consellor we had was pretty good, a bit 'new age' but I think that's part of the NCT self selecting demographic. I whole heartedly recommend also doing the NHS session, if like ours they'll show you round the wards and a birthing suite so it's not all new and scary when the time comes.

re Breastfeeding (FETCH ME MY SOAPBOX!) My wife was determined to b/f our daughter, but from an early stage it wasn't happening. She suffered massively from sore and bleeding nipples, couldn't get her to latch on properly, all sorts. All through we got great support both from the midwives and NCT b/f specialists but nothing seemed to work. Daughter wasn't gaining weight, wife was getting more stressed, and the first 3 weeks of parenthood were something i would never wish on anyone. i hated my daughter, because of what she was doing to my wife and by extension us.

Eventually my mum, who was an NCT counsellor in the past, snapped, and ordered my wife to give Polly a bottle. Overnight things changed. She started to gain weight, she wasn't crying the whole time (poor thing had spent 3 weeks being hungry!), my wife was less stressed and she was able to start to breastfeed a bit and top up with expressed and formula as well. But we were dreading the next call from the health visitor because of what she'd say.

{ascends soapbox}

She was as nice as you like. In fact she said that she'd thought that was what was needed, but because my wife seemed so determined to make it work, and because she had performance targets to meet for mothers who breastfed that she had been warned about by her bosses for underperformance against, she hadn't made that suggestion! I was furious, initially with her that she'd allowed my wife and daughter to go through it but then at a system that imho failed to recognise that the needs of the baby are higher than any b/f target.

I still believe breast is best, and our second took to it immediately and was breastfed exclusively, but formula either entirely or as a supplement is not by extension bad, and compared to a starving baby is absolutely ****ing brilliant.

Wow thanks, lots of useful advice there.

Re the breastfeeding and natural childbirth thing, I am a pragmatic person and will go for what works for me and baby, I'm not easily pushed into stuff. My midwife (from the one appointment) seems good - she was much relieved that I didn't smoke, drink much and was capable of filling in all my forms unsupervised 🙂

Luckily I have lots of sensible Mum friends to offer advice, its just a shame non of them live in Skipton.

I whole heartedly recommend also doing the NHS session, if like ours they'll show you round the wards and a birthing suite so it's not all new and scary when the time comes.

😀

My missus worked as a doctor at the hospital she gave birth in, and spent two weeks as an in-patient there before the big day finally arrived. It was anything but new by that point and afterwards all she wanted to do was go home (a little too early as it happened).

but formula either entirely or as a supplement is not by extension bad, and compared to a starving baby is absolutely **** brilliant.

Of course.. but many (not all, obviously) people give up too easily imo. And before people started pushing BF many people didn't even bother trying - bottles were entirely the norm according to my mum.

a system that imho failed to recognise that the needs of the baby are higher than any b/f target

Not sure you are understanding the issue. BF is all about the needs of the baby. The point is that there are frequently early difficulties, and they are solved with time as the baby and mother learn and adapt. That's why the midwives etc push it, because persistence is often rewarded. Only in unusual cases is it actually fatally doomed afaik. Our first only got the hang of it at 3mo when she grew physically big enough to deal with the nipple, fortunately though she was getting enough to get by in the early days.

Beware mixed feeding though. It messes with your supply and causes more difficulties.

before people started pushing BF many people didn't even bother trying - bottles were entirely the norm according to my mum.

Yep. We've had friends that were told by their mums that it "wasn't natural" to continue breastfeeding after six weeks and the baby should be on a formula as soon as possible. 😯

We went to NCT classes and made a bunch of good friends who were all going through the same thing. We still see all of them.

The teacher we had was great - very pragmatic, no nonsense and completely grounded. She gave us a *lot* of information we would otherwise have had to work out for ourselves, and certainly far more than could be crammed into a one day course. I found it really helpful as a dad-to-be.

However, we had friends in the same area who were assigned another course leader who was an absolute nightmare, apparently.
The NCT is great - but the NCT tutor you get very much affects the experience you get.

Very similar experience to Theotherjonv, as it happens - breastfeeding nightmare with our first. The NCT tutor, breastfeeding adviser and community midwife were all excellent - very supportive but also completely practical. It wasn't working, and at no point did they get all fundamentalist about breastfeeding - they all (separately) said to go to bottle if it wasn't working.

You're hearing a lot of conflicting messages on this thread - NCT good, NCT bad, etc etc, and that's because it's a pretty variable experience - an organisation run by volunteers who are variously enthusiastic, jaded, skilled and experienced and completely new to the whole thing. My recommendation would be to sign up for it. You will waste money on far more silly, expensive things than NCT classes, and if worst comes to worst you will have met a ready-made baby group.

[b]bent udder[/b]>> breastfeeding nightmare with our first...

Hmmm.. can't think why that would be... 😉

@ molgrips

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but that can be where the issue comes.

The breast is best people [u]can[/u] be so evangelical about it that particularly when it's something you really want to succeed, have tried really hard with and yet still isn't working after weeks, your message can be interpreted as YOU gave up too easily, YOUR problems would have been solved if YOU had shown time and persistence, and YOU have failed to give your baby a good start in life. Might not sound rational but trust me - i was there with my wife. It was a very hard decision to make up that first bottle, but I'm so glad we did. I'm not sure that people who are heavily evangelical can be open minded.

My anger was that the health visitor had actually reached the same conclusion but was pressured by targets rather than what was right. once we'd taken that decision out of her hands, she was just as helpful if not more so because she enable my wife to manage mixed feeding / expressed milk so we could provide at least some of the natural benefits as well.

I'd support anyone that felt they wanted to try to breastfeed, but i would also caution that it is not the be-all and end-all of being a new parent. If you decide it's not for you for whatever reason, technical or social, you are not a bad parent based on that decision.

its just a shame non of them live in Skipton

We're in Silsden so used Ilkley midwives. Apart from being really scatty, they were very good!

When we had our first, NCT wasn't available. We didn't bother with it second time around as we knew lots of people with kids the same age and knew how to drive a baby.

Lots of people I know recommend them though as social/ support networks rather than for the content. Some groups really do stay friends for life - my mother-in-law still meets up with her NCT friends 30 years later!

The support network is hugely important. When you've been up all night, you've found it impossible to make and drink a warm cup of tea and you just need an hour's break or a bit of a moan it's great to be able to call on a spare pair of hands. If you can, make a nice wide circle of friends in similar circumstances.

...and congratulations. It's brilliant.

your message can be interpreted as YOU gave up too easily

Well, that's a personal thing isn't it? Mrs Grips had extreme pain and serious problems, but happens to be stubborn enough to press on, and after three months it came good.

We all have our limits.

If you decide it's not for you for whatever reason, technical or social

Hmm.. being unable to do it is one thing, not doing it because you don't fancy it is another - isn't it?

Hmm.. being unable to do it is one thing, not doing it because you don't fancy it is another - isn't it?

Yes, it is a different thing. But my point is that the b/f lobby will have you believe that if you don't b/f, then you are a bad parent as a result. It may be an indicator, as mentioned elsewhere, that there may be a higher likelihood that you will turn out to be a bad parent - but the decision itself is not the sole factor.

Hmm.. being unable to do it is one thing, not doing it because you don't fancy it is another - isn't it?

Yeah sorry but I agree with grips there.

"Social reasons" are crap. The benefits are clear enough that not doing it [i]purely[/i] because of "social reasons" [i]does[/i] make you a bad parent IMO.

You could likewise claim that your bringing your kids up on chips and energy drinks because of "social reasons".

(I work in a fairly deprived area and it's not unusual to see 3 or 4 year olds, still in pushchairs, munching on king size Dairy Milk and being wheeled into the chip shop for lunch. 🙁 )

my point is that the b/f lobby will have you believe that if you don't b/f, then you are a bad parent as a result.

And that's the unfortunate flip-side. If you've given it a go then you shouldn't be made to feel like that.

You could likewise claim that your bringing your kids up on chips and energy drinks because of "social reasons".

Strongly disagree here, i'm afraid. Formula milk is not bad for your baby. It's not AS good as breastmilk but it is not bad. Giving your baby formula is nothing like bringing your kids up on chips and coke. It's a bloody good alternative, if breastfeeding is not for you for whatever reason.

As I said, it may be [u]an indicator[/u] that weaning will involve transferring them from formula onto chips and coke, but giving them formula itself is not the issue.

But it's perception too.

What judgement would you have made if you'd seen the NCT mums out 6 weeks after the births, and 3 of them breastfeeding and my wife giving our daughter a bottle? Immediate impulse is 'she should be breastfeeding too'.

I picked up the book of that piano playing woman who advertised shampoo for a while - forget her name - a memoir of her pregnancy. On the page I opened she complained about people trying to persuade her to at least try bf - she declared that 'it's not for me'.

You're quite right - it's not for [b]you [/b]at all....

Whichever way you get it, you absolutely need a local support network of people who are going through what you're going through at the same time. Not a year after or even 6 months after, but at the same time.

We got that through our NCT class and three years later, we are all still friends and still see each other socially at least once ever few months (more now that it's birthday season!)

You cannot underestimate the importance of the support network; without the NCT group I strongly suspect the outcome would have been much much worse for a few of the women, my own wife included, when they suffered from terrible post natal depression.

In the first six months after the babies were born, I think the mums were together maybe three times a week at least, some weeks it was every day.

Everything else you can take or leave, but the group support you get from the class you can't really put a price on. If you can get that some place else then great.

Well, that's a personal thing isn't it? Mrs Grips had extreme pain and serious problems, but happens to be stubborn enough to press on, and after three months it came good.

[TRUMP CARD] my wife was hospitalised and put on a drip because of complications caused by persevering with breast feeding. at no point did anyone tell her to stop, in fact quite the opposite, until she saw a specialist clinician who was not linked to maternity care. some might call this clinical negligence.

Look, this isn't supposed to be a discussion on merits and otherwise if breast vs formula, sorry for taking it that way.

NCT may be good, it may not, my recommendation would be to do it but take your own salt and add liberal pinches as needed.

some might call this clinical negligence.

I would, or at least poor diagnosis.

However like I say, there's a long way between that and 'I don't want that thing sucking my boobs'

Oops. Just checked in again, and I appear to have inadvertendly derailed this thread somewhat with my semi-flippant comment on breast-feeding counsellors. Sorry about that, OP, I didn't realise it was an STW trigger topic. 🙁

Just don't try it on mumsnet. You think this is bad...!

We did the NHS class which was excellent and skipped the NCT one.

That said mrs trb is still loosely involved with the NCT 5 years on - The Nearly New sales are great for buying a selling kit & clothes!

Mrs trb made a whole new social network via the baby groups, singing groups, messy play group, toddler groups etc etc etc and I made a new network of riding and drinking buddies via the mrs and the kids!

Just don't try it on mumsnet. You think this is bad...!

As for NCT my experiences are the same as everyone elses. Do it as the contacts you make are invaluable. I go riding with the other Dads at least once a week! 😈

Why hasn't anyone do eHarmony for expectant families. Seems a lot easier/cheaper than NCT classes which the NHS provide for free but in a less social setting.

We did NCT and NHS. NHS was great, very pragmatic and informative - they called a spade a spade and recommended you did whatever was right for you and the baby. We learned a lot but didn't really click with the other attendees - mostly just mothers though as it was a midweek daytime thing, they were all surprised to see me there week after week 🙂

NCT was OK, but all a bit earth mother and felt to us more like they had an agenda other than helping you cope with what is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do - no drugs, breast is best, blah blah blah. That said, because it was all mums and dads we all got on very well. The women were all very supportive of each other before/during/after birth, us men got to meet for curry and beer from time to time. After a while some drifted away but my missus is now BFF with one of the NCT girls and we all see a lot of each other.

I'd recommend doing both as you get the best (and worst) of both worlds. Of course, with the second we didn't do any as we knew it all by then!

STW on politics bad or STW on conveyor belts bad?

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Go fopr both the more and more varied the information the better.

We did NCT and 2 evening NHS classes. The NCT benefits were very much driven by the other parents to be.Ours was a good group and my wife remains in contact and often gets and gives support.

The Nct class also went through all the birthing options and painrelief ,in our group the bias towards natural was not overwhelming, given our experience of birth it was helpful to know the full range of options as we went on to use them all ...

The only downside of NCT was the woman we came to refer to as the Breast Feeding Nazi. The Nhs coverage was actually better more informative and less judgemental.

The NHS classes were bigger and in general more lecture rather than seminar. The Attendees were more diverse from teen's to middle aged Doctors.

I am now a recognised expert in all aspects of child birth and child care as they relate to one particular child, regretably the only other recognised expert on Crankbrat tends to dispute my theorys on a regular basis.

Giving your baby formula is nothing like bringing your kids up on chips and coke. It's a bloody good alternative, if breastfeeding is not for you for whatever reason.

Absolutely, and that wasn't in any way the comparison I was intending to draw. My apologies.

NCT was good only for meeting people, but that in itself is more than worth it.

For the breast feeding 'if you make a choice you're a bad person' stop and have a think quite how this makes people feel when they are struggling before spouting your over opinionated shite off will you? Buch of evanjelical yogurt knitting arsewipes.
At what age did you stop? Hope it wasn't before nipper was 3+ otherwise you're absolutly no better.

Do it for the social bit, you'll benefit from having people with tiny babies at same time as you in same area.

transapp: not sure if that was aimed at either me or molgrips, but both of us have clearly said that the [i]"bad person"[/i] is the one that refuses to even consider breastfeeding because they don't fancy it, [u]not[/u] people who have tried it and are [i]"struggling"[/i].

At what age did you stop? Hope it wasn't before nipper was 3+ otherwise you're absolutly no better.

Nonsense.

All classes are good for the first child as it gets you into the social circle and makes you realise that none of you actually understand what's about to happen/has just happened.

I personally found the NCT lot cliquey, boring and desperately trying to live up to some new age, middle class stereotype. That's probably not representative of NCT per say, more the geographical area we are in. I quickly got bored of it and them.

Love a load of judgey blokes going on about whether women should breastfeed and under what circumstances they are allowed to stop or not try.

None of your bloody business how someone else chooses to feed their baby - feeding formula isn't child abuse you know.

None of your bloody business how someone else chooses to feed their baby - feeding formula isn't child abuse you know.

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that there aren't actually any [i]"breastfeeding nazis"[/i]...

...only [i]"formula zionists"[/i] 😀

PCT course was OK, didn't go into specifics like how much it will hurt, what happens when things go wrong, how tight to put on a nappy - the sort of stuff you might want to know. Met a few friends there and had a useful tour of the delivery suite. "Birth plan" was a joke. Provided practically no foundation for what turned out to be a traumatic birth and a nightmare for breastfeeding.

Didn't bother with NCT, but met people who had been to the same class, subsequently. Seemed more of a social circle than anything else. Not a broad circle, either.

Sadly the best preparation for birth was having already had one! The second was easy by comparison.

Oh and don't say breastfeeding nazis on mumsnet as they go MENTAL.

"Oh and don't say breastfeeding nazis on mumsnet as they go MENTAL"

I used the term or introduced it to this thread so want to be clear crankygirl (and i in so far as i get a say) are very pro breastfeeding and crankbrat has been so fed up till one year at some risk to crankgirl that ain't for this forum..

Our Nct breast feeding counselor really earned the description and had to be challenged for her "any one can do it every one should do it and if you don't it's because you don't love your baby," attitude (unfortuanatly that is only a slight exageration of the way she came across)

The truth* is some mothers and babies breast feed easily and well some struggle and some can't. I'm sure breast is best but the WHO guidelines are for the whole world in some parts of which clean water and sterilisation equipment is absent so there brest is safest . Formula is a perfectly good alternative and people should not be made to feel anxious or failures if it is what works for them.

*in my opinion based on limited knowledge.

Don't worry crankboy my husband says it too 🙂 (I think you must have met the same woman I did to be honest. She turned up with papers on how breastfeeding makes your baby more intelligent, etc, and told us **** all about what problems you would have and how to get round them. I was left bemused thinking "well, this breastfeeding is a win-win isn't it? It's a magical panacea, and it's also piss easy, everyone can do it. Awesome, sign me up" (actually I thought, there's something you're not telling me you weird woman)

And actually, in reality, I found breastfeeding relatively easy, second time piss easy in fact. But it just annoys me when everyone else thinks how you do parenting is their own business. It starts when you get pregnant (what are you doing riding a bike, what are you doing having half a pint of beer, etc, etc) and it never stops. Mind your own business and get on with parenting your own kids!

Mind your own business and get on with parenting your own kids!

Oh look, a child drinking bleach... ah well. Not my business. I guess the parents know best.. 😉

Don't be ridiculous!! Now you're comparing giving a kid formula to drinking bleach? What the hell?

Now you're comparing giving a kid formula to drinking bleach?

Christ on a bike!

No. I'm. not. I'm really really not.

I'm making an admittedly weak joke, hinting that contrary to popular belief, minding one's own business is not [i]always[/i] the best or nicest thing to do for anyone concerned.

Ok, well I knew you were being tongue in cheek, but I think you are deliberately trying to not get my point, or take it too far the other way.

Love a load of judgey blokes going on about whether women should breastfeed

when this is your opening gambit, then you leave yourself open to derisory comments on a male-oriented forum.

Nah, I'm just being accused of a lot of things I didn't really say (or at least mean).

My thoughts, for what they are worth, come down to this:

Breastfeeding is best. This much is intuitively obvious and is backed by lots and lots of good medical research.

As such, every mum should be informed of the benefits and strongly encouraged to give breastfeeding a good try. That in itself may involve challenging some social bias/barriers/taboos/whatever.

And it does need strong encouragement and proper support, because even without the confusion of social and emotional issues, it is often not the easiest thing to do physically.

However... not everyone [i]can[/i] do it and absolutely no one should ever be made to feel a failure for having to switch to formula.

Unfortunately, humans being the emotional creatures that we are, it is completely impossible to balance these two goals. Or even talk about them openly without upsetting people.

As this thread ably demonstrates.

None of your bloody business how someone else chooses to feed their baby

No, which is why I haven't issued instructions to anyone personally.

However, there is a valid point here which may be debated in public. And the debate should not be restricted to women either.

[i][b]Have you got kids?![/b][/i]

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