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Morning all
Will be riding at Cwmcarn for the first time in a couple of weeks. For some time now I've heard about the Twrch trail and how it is supposed to have some of the sweetest singletrack descents and I've always wanted to ride it.
Only they've now gone and built Cafall and the reviews on this are very good as well.
As well as having lots of trail centre experience, I regularly ride in the Dark Peak and North Wales, so not afraid of less groomed surfaces and steep descents.
I've only got time to ride one though. I'm minded to do Cafall, but am I missing a trick by ignoring the Twrch? Any thoughts would be most welcome!
Cheers
Tricky, that one. Twrch is a classic though, I'd do that if I were you.
Both 😉
The last few km of Twrch are great. The first bit I can't bring myself to enjoy other than the fact it's a nice bit of forest
how much time have you got? My usual there now is a full Cafell and then up the Forest Drive road to the top of the Twrch. It's about 22k and 900m climbing. The Cafell will be a bit of a mud fest right now at the top section.
Ride all of Cafell and then ride up the road and pick up the Twrch descent.
Should only be a couple of hours in total.
The last few km of Twrch are great. The first bit I can't bring myself to enjoy other than the fact it's a nice bit of forest
That's the best thing about Cwmcarn - that the climb on Twrch is a great climb in itself, rather than just trundling up hairpins carefully graded so as not to give fat middle aged MAMBAs coronaries, like most trail centres.
Thanks for your input guys
LoCo - Member
Both
Oh that I had the chance. Unfortunately it's one or t'other, though whichever I choose I'll come back again to do the other one.
atlaz - Member
The last few km of Twrch are great. The first bit I can't bring myself to enjoy other than the fact it's a nice bit of forest
This is kind of what I've heard. One massive climb, followed by one massive descent...
That said Cafall trail has twice the amount of climbing, though I'mm assuming that it is spread out along the route a bit more..
This is kind of what I've heard. One massive climb, followed by one massive descent...
Not exactly. One massive challenging technical in places climb, then along and up and down for quite a bit, finishing off with the big descent.
Cafall does of course go up then down but it's a bit more spread out. Longer steadier climb, but when that's over there's more to come.
Looks like the odds are narrowing sharply on the whole Cafall, followed by the Twrch descent via the Forest Drive. Decisions, decisions..
You could also go up the road and do the DH course... which also gives you the option of cutting out the last bit of DH for the final descent of Twrch... 🙂
I'd say the last part of twrch from the top is undulating rather than just a descent.
That's the best thing about Cwmcarn - that the climb on Twrch is a great climb in itself, rather than just trundling up hairpins carefully graded so as not to give fat middle aged MAMBAs coronaries, like most trail centres.
This.
Some fun flowy bits up on the top traverse but I'd say the final descent of Twrch doesn't offer much to get excited about. A rough, fairly straight single track once you get into it, the final bit into the car park is quite entertaining but only at warp speed.
I'd say the new track offers a bit more variety but as said, it'll be muddy up top.
Cafall isn't particularly muddy really - it's not armoured, but it holds up well for a natural trail surface I reckon.
Thanks guys, I've heard also that Cafall is more of a technical challenge. Rougher surface, steeper sections, mud (lots apparently). Is this the case and how well does it flow (ie is it steep, gnarly and slow, or can speed be gained despite the technical nature of the surface?)
DH track sounds interesting. Not much experience of those, but as long as the big jumps are rollable 😯
DH track sounds interesting. Not much experience of those, but as long as the big jumps are rollable
There's nothing you can't roll there.
The Twrch climb is definitely worth doing, it's just a bit of a task in places and the last time I was there I just uplifted to airstream and rode from there
Seconded - absolutely nothing on the DH track that will hurt you in any way if you are careful. Most of the jumps are on the bottom section and I think all but one are well sighted enough that you can get a modest amount of air on-sight. The top half is singletrack which is a bit tight and a bit rooty, that's all. It's not even very steep. I've done it on my flimsy XC race bike 🙂
Cafell reminds me a bit more of off piste riding, or at least bits of it. I really rate it, and love a bit of mud and slippage. it's just different to the usual armoured trail centre ride.
I'd personally be a bit careful doing the DH track on my tod if it's mid week - especially if it's all a bit wet and slippy.
Twrch starts with a long singletrack climb with loads of technical bits you might struggle to clean. That's either your thing or not. You then have a small area with two options you can "session": jumps and berms or vanilla singletrack. Then the middle bit doesn't know what it wants to be, up and down enough that a dropper makes sense. Then the final descent is amazing - the trick is knowing when you're on the final descent and not the up and down middle. 🙂
Cafal is steeper to climb and being newer the descents are narrower - the mud thing some many people talk about really was just when it was brand new and not really bedded in - like the Blade at Afan I think they bowed to pressure and opened it too early, and on really wet days after a wet couple of weeks and hundreds of super keen riders tore it up.
Twrch is great, it really wants warp speed at all times, especially the last run into the car park - one tip is the attack the final bit from the end of the last bit (I forget the names) they're separated by a fire road but in 10 years I've never seen a vehicle on it - sometimes walkers but you see them a mile off - straight down the narrow bit to the road (there's a kink but it's easy to jump) two quick cranks over the fire road - breath in between the sides of the little wooden cattle grid and 'have at it' - makes it easier to jump the first two woops and makes the funny sort of half-berm into the main on the on the first turn make sense.
This is giving me the itch for trip to Cwmcarn
HaydPD - Member
This is giving me the itch for trip to Cwmcarn
Gonna be there on the 12th with a mate if anybody fancies joining us? Will be driving down from sunny Manchester, so plan is to meet there at 11am. Let me know if you're interested.
Oops double post
Do be a little careful on the crests on the final descent because if you are going flat out and get it wrong the results would not be pretty! Quite easy to get more air than you bargained for and end up either head first in the hillside or in the car park a little earlier than anticipated.
Overall, my preference is the Twrch, but as others have said it really is down to what type of riding you like. I find the Cafall's climb to be an interminable slog, while the Twrch is more interesting. Others obviously take the opposite view... The flat and downhill sections have less to choose between them, really, but they have completely different characters. Which can only be a good thing. 😀
The last couple of times I've been up there, we've done the Twrch climb, then used the fire road to link from Giant's Cwrt on the Twrch to Hideout on the Cafall, which I think makes the most of the two trails.
tbh I dont think it matters a lot which you do, both are good fun. If you cant do both just pick on and then return to do the other.
/close thread
Do be a little careful on the crests on the final descent because if you are going flat out and get it wrong the results would not be pretty!
I did once see a bloke land on his head on that descent...
What's the mud situation on the Cafall trail? I was thinking of heading over on Monday as I've nebver ridden it.
Stories of mud have been massively overplayed imo. It's almost all trail centre with a few puddles, and there's a short section that's like a Welsh natural peaty trail - it's not that muddy, and it's nothing compared to natural trails at this time of year.
Stories of mud have been massively overplayed imo. It's almost all trail centre with a few puddles, and there's a short section that's like a Welsh natural peaty trail - it's not that muddy, and it's nothing compared to natural trails at this time of year.
Good to hear. Some of the reports gave the impression I'd be up to my axles in liquid mud!
Depends what you like. Cafell is tamer and climbier and. It feels more blue than red. Twrch feels more red.
I'll have to take some photos next time I'm there!