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Ive clearly been out of the game too long
WTF is Cues?
OH has a new touring/commuter frame, so i was doing a "frame swap" build over the weekend, but the road BB doesnt fit the new MTB BB, nor the cranks (i dont think) which are worn out anyway, and she wants to go 1x for simplicity. The casette and chain are shot obviously, and if shes going 1x she needs a new mech etc etc.
Eugh. And now there is Cues
Which is all new, all compatiable... except if you want 12 speed, you need a wider casette body (<2mm wider, but wider).
You can buy a 9 speed cues derailleur for less than the price of a 10 speed, but theyre supposed to be interchangeable? underneath the are basically all 11 speed, right? ( so i cant use an existing XT 9 speed parts bin derailleur?)
a 10 speed casette is an 11 speed with a cog missing, because its all the same steps?
Does that mean a 10 speed Cues casette isnt the same spacing as a deore 10 speed (or Airbike)?
Considering they all look the same, its hard to be sure which Cues derailleur will cover the wider cog ranges for a 1x
AND the cable now exits pointing up into space, it thought we fixed that rollamagig issue, with the angled cable pull years ago.
And as its all intercompatable, you now dont get the BB with the crankset! I can buy a 1x10 Deore Crank with BB, or a Cues one without for the same price. But are the bolt holes going to move?! i notice that the 104BCD with regular bolt spacing has gone. Theyre all 110 with weird offsets, so will i struggle to replace the Deore rings?
Im all for Shimano ripping the plaster off and doing it all at once, rather than adding another standard to the existing lineup, but it does feel like theyve currently just taken all the names of everything, and replace it with Cues branding without actually fixing the issues.
Thankfully there appears to be only 1x10 cues shifter. Unfortunatly its cheap Acera level, rather than reliable old Deore.
Any pearls of Wisdom?
Go with faithful old Deore, which is getting retired, or suck it up now and move it over to Cues?
Does anyone want a half dead Tiagra4700 groupset (that is infamous for odd cable pull ratios)
I don't know much about CUES, but it does seem a bit of a muddle. Apparently the U8000 stuff is a replacement for the old XT T8000 trekking kit which would presumably make the U6000 the equivalent of the Deore T6000, so we seem to have XT & Deore level kit in CUES too.
I think that U8000 & U6000 are 10 speed, but what I do like is that there's now a drop bar brifter option that never existed with the Trekking stuff. Both the single & double options also come in lower MTB friendly options, so I think you have XT & Deore level CUES kit overlapping (but not compatible with) XT & Deore proper (but not 12 speed).
I think you could, for example, build a 10 speed, XT level groupset for a gravel bike with CUES instead of going for GRX.
The 4000 level kit with its pinned chain rings & cartridge BBs seem to the the sub-Deore option.
I think I've just confused things more.
Pinkbikes take is that it's for city riding, basically consolidates everything under deore 12sp level. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/shimano-consolidate-entry-to-mid-level-groupsets-with-new-cues-tier.html
What are the Cues hubs like for durability?
Are they really as weatherproof as properly sealed hubs (DT Swiss)?
I have a CUES front hub. It has sealed cartridge bearings, not cup and cone. I would imagine on the front of a commuter bike they will last a while. I couldn't comment on MTB use sealing.
Cues isn’t a new group set, it’s an entirely different system designed with durability in mind.
I believe that cues and non-cues components aren’t compatible. The pull ratios and cassette spacing are unique.
Ive put some XT smaller 4 cogs on my linkglide cassette and once it had eventually jumped from the linkglide to the XT it was fine, so I think the cassette spacing is the same but the shift ramps that are different.
CUES is a (rather badly explained / marketed) effort to consolidate all the low/entry-level end of the spectrum under one unique cross-compatible set of parts, so it'll replace Sora, Tiagra, Altus, Alivio, etc.
I think the plan is actually to have it as OEM kit initially and it'll sort of filter through to the market that way. It's supposed to minimise the inventory list for shops in terms of endless front and rear mechs, shifters, chains etc and simplfy everything. For example, one chain (11sp) works across the whole 9/10/11 sp range.
But it's only compatible with itself. A 10-sp CUES rear mech will work on 9sp or 11sp CUES systems but it won't work on anything else 10sp. But the thinking is that eventually everything 10sp will be CUES anyway so it shouldn't matter.
And to be fair, it's only really Shimano that are looking at this sort of level of market. SRAM have sort of done bits and pieces (like Apex 1x), Campag's idea of entry level is a £3000 road groupset instead of the £4500 top of the range one so CUES should be a winner. Once it's all filtered through and been better explained to the customer...
It’s a really good idea, but unfortunately it’s broken backwards compatibility. For most people this won’t be an issue, though…
CUES is an acronym for CUE more Standards. Whatever.
Does it mean, for instance, if I have a whole CUES drivetrain, I won't be able to buy slightly cheaper SRAM cassettes any more?
[[[[sweet daydreams about cheap SRAM PG950s and KMC chains from CRC]]]]
CUES is a (rather badly explained / marketed) effort to consolidate all the low/entry-level end of the spectrum under one unique cross-compatible set of parts, so it'll replace Sora, Tiagra, Altus, Alivio, etc.
As above though, it also replaces the XT & Deore Trekking groupsets. Their replacements now include XT & Deore level double & single rings in Trekking/gravel sizes & MTB friendly sizes along with flat bar shifters & brifters.
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but it seems to me that there's overlap with XT & Deore MTB & GRX along with some interesting possibilities for drop bar MTBs, gravel bikes, tourers, bike packing etc.
I tried to figure this out recently as a mate (who works in a bike shop so pays trade) put a cues setup on his son's bike.
I ended up with an 11 speed slx shifter, an 11 speed deore mech (cheap cheap from banana industries IIRC) & a deore 11-51 cassette. I kept my old cranks & put a new 104bcd ring on them.
Cues just seemed complicated & more expensive.
Cues just seemed complicated & more expensive.
It's Linkglide so supposed to be way more durable than regular Hyperglide - up to 3x better if the reviews are to be believed. The system was originally developed to cope with the much greater torque of e-bikes so something relatively overbuilt on a regular bike could conceivably last many years which would make it much cheaper in the long run.
Sounds like it's a flat bar bike?
In which case I'd just stick with 11sp Deore - and then you've got access to all the 11sp Shimano MTB stuff if required.
Unless she is gonna be doing mega miles and particularly wants the durability of Linkglide?
Recent video from BikeRadar here about it:
The "launch" of this has been pretty woeful, it's been dragged out for ages with "oh we'll release drop bar shifters eventually" and no-one really understanding what it's for but it is finally beginning to sound clearer and make a bit more sense.
It's a shame that Shimano are still carrying on with Altus / Alivio / Acera etc spare parts for a while yet, it's just dragging out the confusion and, far from solving the LBS issue of too much stock, compatibility etc, it's actually prolonging it cos now they need CUES as well as everything else, not instead of.
Go with faithful old Deore, which is getting retired, or suck it up now and move it over to Cues?
You can probably pick up a 1x 11 GRX or Deore for not a lot at all whereas CUES is still new enough that it's not easily available aftermarket yet. I'm not even sure if the intention was to have it as a "here you go, buy a complete groupset" option because people buying bikes at that level don't know or care enough to be custom speccing things, they're buying an off-the-shelf product that Just Works.
CUES is replacing entry-level kit and no-one goes into a bike shop and says "I want this frame, those wheels, and can you build it up with a Claris groupset..."
It’s such a marketing muddle.
LinkGlide is meant to be a more durable, smoother but slower shifting, heavier version of HyperGlide.
The CUES range is LinkGlide stuff aimed at the cheaper end of the market.
I think LinkGlide is miles better than HyperGlide if you need more durability - I destroyed HG SLX cassettes so fast on my ebike. I like that you can use 9, 10 or 11 speed cassettes - I’ve dropped from 11 to 10 because I didn’t need the range and it’s cheaper and lighter losing the biggest sprocket.
And to be fair, it's only really Shimano that are looking at this sort of level of market. SRAM have sort of done bits and pieces (like Apex 1x), Campag's idea of entry level is a £3000 road groupset instead of the £4500 top of the range one so CUES should be a winner. Once it's all filtered through and been better explained to the customer...
Seems to be the gist of it.
Shimano is pretty much the only show in town these days for <£2500 road bikes with 105 mechanical. You can have SRAM, but it's basically decade old 11speed stuff unless it's electric.
Creating Cues made sense as for the most part 105 is cheap enough that 'serious' roadies will buy it and not complain. Cues then gives a separate compatible ecosystem of components for everything from entry level and winter spec road bikes to commuters and tourers. Don't think about it as "is this compatible with Deore xx speed?" think of it as an entirely separate sub-brand.
The jump between only having 3 roadie group sets but 4 MTB group sets sort of make sense as MTB is inherently more wearing on components so it makes sense to have a cheap-but-high-end option in deore when high milage ridders will be trashing more than one full drivetrain a year. On the road 105 is still SLX-ish but cassettes last 10,000miles or more for most people. And deore does make SX/NX look really cheap and nasty both on the shelf and in longevity.
At least it's not as disjointed as GRX? Why could they not just make it a couple of 12s tiers equivalent to 105 and ultegra? Why did it need 3 completely separate incompatible group sets (and a Di2 option)?
I decided it was wasting too much time trying to work out when/if deore stuff would be cross compatiable for the sake of a few quid, so have just gone full 10 speed Cues all over.
Time shall tell!
[[[[sweet daydreams about cheap SRAM PG950s and KMC chains from CRC]]]]
Thats where i still am on all my bikes. 9 speeds was more than enough.
still never had a clutch (or felt the need for one)
The right choice.