[Closed] Croydon Tram Crash

Pound to a penny it was a case of excess speed - right on the bend in the track and it looks like the carriage has tipped over. Terrible for those involved.

There will be an inquiry, an official report by the RAIB, and ORR, but trams are still safer than cars, something happened or didnt happen in the safety systems and sadly people lost their live, lessons will be learnt and acted upon, as in all serious rail or tram crashes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fatal-tram-accident-in-croydon

Literally 5 mins from my house. Heard the sirens this morning and didn't think much of it until I got a message from a workmate.
Thoughts are with those affected.
Dread to think of how things would have been if it was an hour or so later.

Sad times. RIP to those killed and hopefully those injured are not too seriously hurt.

driver arrested but they are not saying what for yet

So they can interview him in a controlled manner.

You know, like they used to do when you were considered innocent until proven otherwise.

Arrested on suspicion of manslaughter. Tram was speeding according to the RAIB.

It's a horrible bend - even taken at the usual speed, you hear and feel the tram groaning and grinding on the radius.

If I hadn't got up late for leaving for work on monday, thereby not buying a weekly season ticket but having to use the motorbike despite the cold, and had I chosen to get into work an hour early for the overtime thats available, I could have been on this.

Not saying that to be dramatic, but it just brings it home, no one expects to leave their house in the morning, not expecting to come home in the evening.

Trams like other public transport eg buses/cars/coaches but not trains,are not fitted with any sort of over speed control device, just a brake and accelerator , along with a driver.

But trams usaully have an electro magnetic brake that magnetises the track to perform an emergency stop at slow speeds, along with disc or tread brakes at higher speeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_brake

There will be an inquiry, an official report by the RAIB, and ORR, but trams are still safer than cars, something happened or didnt happen in the safety systems and sadly people lost their live, lessons will be learnt and acted upon, as in all serious rail or tram crashes.

I think cable cars are even safer tho

Another local here - know that location very well.

Terrible tragedy.

Jujuu the news reported the speed limit for the bend is 16mph, you do wonder why there is not an automatic speed control system. So many train crashes are due to excessive speed on corners. Sadly if you look at the safety recommendations after the Clapham disaster the majority have been ignored. I was a train commuter for 30 years and to be honest I am glad I don't do it any more. Yes roads are statistically more dangerous (3,500 deaths per anum half of those being pedestrians) but there is the element of choice and control.

jambalaya - Member

Jujuu the news reported the speed limit for the bend is 16mph, you do wonder why there is not an automatic speed control system. So many train crashes are due to excessive speed on corners. Sadly if you look at the safety recommendations after the Clapham disaster the majority have been ignored.

Because its essentially a bus on a restricted road. No requirement to have train style systems or trams simply couldn't work in areas where they share the road with cars. There is no element of control on any public transport such as bus or trams, but the last thing cities need is more cars on the road 'because they feel safer'.

Sad for those involved and their relatives. Newsworthy because it's unusual.

@mikenewsmith Absolute figures don't really tell the whole story, you need KSI figures by miles/Km travelled or journeys. There's vastly more car journeys and passenger miles than by tram. Also trains/trams are constrained by the tracks they run on and are controlled environments (to a large degree) so safer to begin with.

As mentioned above RAIB will investigate and produce recommendations which get fed back into the system relatively quickly. This doesn't really happen with road traffic or at least only very slowly in the form of regulation/law and driver education - look at drink driving and more recently mobile phone usage.

So they can interview him in a controlled manner.
You know, like they used to do when you were considered innocent until proven otherwise.

Pretty sure that to be arrested the police need to have a reasonable belief that you've committed a crime. Otherwise, he'd just be helping them with their enquiries.

Because its essentially a bus on a restricted road.

This line is actually more like a railway than a tram - it only travels on roads through Central Croydon, the rest of the time it's on the old railway tracks.

I heard on some news channel this morning that people were reporting that the driver had blacked out before the accident.

Jujuu the news reported the speed limit for the bend is 16mph, you do wonder why there is not an automatic speed control system. So many train crashes are due to excessive speed on corners. Sadly if you look at the safety recommendations after the Clapham disaster the majority have been ignored. I was a train commuter for 30 years and to be honest I am glad I don't do it any more. Yes roads are statistically more dangerous (3,500 deaths per anum half of those being pedestrians) but there is the element of choice and control.

If you do the cost / benefit analysis there is absolutely no way you could justify spending money on fitting such a safety system to trams in general. That's why they don't have them.

[i]But one traveller, who was on the tram immediately before the crash, said he had not been surprised by the derailment.
"The rate you see tram drivers hare around those corners is frightening," said Con O'Sullivan. "They do go really fast when they travel on this route. I am not surprised something like this has eventually happened."[/i]

Yeah, looks like the driver is pulling the "Glasgow Bin Lorry Driver" defence!