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I have Cross Climates on my Santa Fe. On standard tyres, the traction was OK in snow for the last couple of years, but felt pretty sketchy.
The Cross Climates just feel good in all conditions - ice, snow, wet, dry. Really good tyres. I'd only swap them for equally good 4 season tyres in the future.
Failedengineer I’ve got these on my mini and can fully recommend. Handling is still excellent and they do an okay job in the snow, ice and slush. Quatrac All season.
£62 each, cheap enough to put on a set of 4.
@failedengineer
Full MemberAnyone tried the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons ones?
Yes. I had a full set on my Octavia. Brilliant. Much quieter than the Bridgestone summers they replaced. Noticeably better on cold wet roads - no more wheelslip pulling away from lights. Great at clearing surface water. Excellent on snow.
I had the generation 2 version. Autoexpress rate the current Gen 3 as the second best all season.
Thanks, looks like it'll be the Goodyears, tyre noise is an issue with the Mini and these are better than most.
Autoexpress rate the current Gen 3 as the second best all season.
The Goodyear Gen 3s also won a recent Auto Bild All Season Tyre test: https://www.autobild.de/artikel/ganzjahresreifen-test-2020-205-55-r-16-18372699.html
Vehicle manufacturers consistently fit summer tyres to new UK spec cars. Modern winter tyres work better below 7 degrees, are fine in the teens and performance / wear rates only seriously tail off once the tarmac gets above 25 degrees. Standard fit 'summer' tyres are obviously better in warm conditions, they are built to cope with Greek heatwaves, but their compounds are too hard and tread patterns too radial to find decent grip in winter conditions, where grip is safety critical. Makes sense that some northern European countries require fitment of winter tyres.
It would be interesting to see the ratio of UK road surface temperatures where the tarmac was below 7 degrees or over 25 degrees for the morning or evening commute. Pretty sure the average will be fairly cool. Unless tarmac temperature is consistently high / dry, or the vehicle is being used for lengthy high speed motorway journeys, all season tyres are perhaps a better bet for much of the UK for much of the year. Winter tyres may even be a safer compromise than summer tyres for those of us in the northern / higher / wetter / colder bits. The Scottish Ambulance Service run winters year round and Police Scotland fit winters to all 2 wheel drive traffic cars between October and March. They work just fine and allow emergency response in all but the worst conditions.
Not sure if vehicle manufacturers are bound by legislation to fit summer tyres to UK spec cars but it does seem odd that all season tyres aren't OEM in a country with our average temperature and rainfall.
PS Cross Climate fan here as well.
not sure about historic data, but there is this:
Right now, the lower road surface temps are about freezing - and damp - just right for a nice hard OEM quality summer compound tyre (!)
It would be interesting to see the ratio of UK road surface temperatures where the tarmac was below 7 degrees or over 25 degrees for the morning or evening commute. Pretty sure the average will be fairly cool
Locally based on typical travel times it's about 9 months of the year where winters are the sensible tire..... different in the deep south I'm sure.
Don’t forget surface temperate is usually a fair bit higher than air temp so I suspect the tarmac being over 25c is quite coming from late March onwards.
So I'm torn between Goodyear Vector 4 seasons, and a spare set of alloys with winters on. The price difference is under £100. £820 for set of alloys with winters vs £740 for the Goodyears (via etyres) I have an Insignia country tourer 4x4 bi turbo with 19" rims (currently 245/45 as supplied with the car when I bought it just recently).
I live in NE England so generally just wet/damp/wet with a moderate smattering of slush on occasion. Happy for any help in choosing. The alloys were from a local tyre/wheel place and come with mid-range winters by Devanti which are approx £100 each. Is there any particular reason that folks use smaller rims with winter tyres as noted in a couple of posts? Only ever driven on summer tyres up til now, and given I tow a caravan, amazed I've made it on some occasions!!
Locally based on typical travel times it’s about 9 months of the year where winters are the sensible tire….. different in the deep south I’m sure.
Yep.
I had 20" Pirelli P-Zeros on a car, horrible apart from a few months of the year - so bought a set of 18" Pirelli Sotozero winters and brilliant.
During lockdown I only swapped out the winters in August as the fronts were knackered. Put a new pair on and back on to winters in November.
Don’t forget surface temperate is usually a fair bit higher than air temp so I suspect the tarmac being over 25c is quite coming from late March onwards
likely be at its coldest in the period just after sunrise when most folk are commuting still half asleep and least likely to be able to waken their elite driving skills to catch a rear end slide in a FWD car.
@fazzini - I had the same question a couple of months ago. Previously I'd run winters on one set of wheels and summers on another set. New (to me) car meant starting from scratch so I decided to go for the Goodyear Vector 4 seasons rather than buying a second set of wheels and tyres and having to store them somewhere. So far really impressed. Particularly noticed it on an off-camber junction where previous tyres scrabbled in the wet.
Not sure what they'll be like in the hot and dry but as I live to the east of the Peak District I'm generally not expecting it to be crazy hot in the summer.
When I did run winter tyres they were on smaller wheels as they were cheaper to buy than bigger wheels. Think they were slightly narrower as well so in theory helps put more weight over a smaller surface area to cut through the snow/slush.
@jeffl thanks for that. I'm thinking the 4 season tyres may the best compromise option as I don't really have space to store a spare set of wheel...what with all the bikes hanging in the garage haha
We used to run Summer / Winter wheels on my wife's last car (FWD) but changing over twice a year and storing a wheelset in the loft was a right PIA. Her new car is 4WD so Cross Climates will be fitted once the original summer tyres wear down. Much less hassle and very nearly as good as seasonal tyres.
lockquote>downshep
Full Member
Vehicle manufacturers consistently fit summer tyres to new UK spec cars.
I think the thing is, there are "summer tyres" and then there's summer tyres. Most people if they think much about it probably go "winter tyre and normal tyre" and what manufacturers usually fit is a "normal tyre" (with "summer tyre" being more "super sticky summer only tyre"
But like trailrat and me were talking about earlier, I think that's changed a bit and now there's really "winter tyre" "all season tyre" "normal tyre" and maybe "summer tyre". Really the default option for most cars in the UK should probably be an all season, but it's not. Meanwhile your "normal tyre" is probably getting more summery and less winter capable- eco tyres for sure and manufacturers like those, but even high quality allrounders have evolved.
So frinstance, today's high quality allrounders like the Eagles, Turanzas, Primacies etc, are imo worse in winter than similar tyres of 10, 15 years ago. They've all got pretty similar tread designs and they're all much less treaded than the allrounders I used to use. It could just be me noticing this now and it's always been like this but I don't think so.
(they pretty much all look like this- 3 wide bands with a little tread that usually wears off after a couple of mm, and then sidebands with more tread)
And then there's the real summers- I have a set of RE050s on some spare wheels I have, they're absolutely fantastic but utterly useless just now. I went out for a testdrive and they just... don't... tyre. They're as bad in snow as the worst and cheapest and more worn out tyres I've ever had on a car, and even in the cold and wet they're awful. But those come as OE fitment on some cars.
So yeah most cars aren't coming with allseasons, they're coming with either ecos or sport touring tyres, or sometimes really sporty tyres.
i think you are overestimating how much the majority consider tyres at all. I would suggest most people go for the cheapest or next cheapest option when they need to for the MOT.
aka ditchfinder specials.
I live in Glasgow and I've been using Cross Climates all year round for about 5 year (shortly after they came out).
In that time I've owned a Leon FR and a Focus ST, both reasonably powerful FWD cars.
I like the Cross Climates for one main reason - traction in the wet.
I've not found a summer tyre that comes close to offering the same amount of traction in the wet as the Cross Climates, the fact that they are also okay on snow (vs useless for summer tyres) is a bonus. They also significantly reduced torque steer in Focus and they wear really well compared to summer tyre too.
jam-bo
Full Memberi think you are overestimating how much the majority consider tyres at all. I would suggest most people go for the cheapest or next cheapest option when they need to for the MOT.
aka ditchfinder specials.
That's why I said "most people if they think about it" but yep you are right. Having said that, I think it's still true, a lot of crappy tyres just by virtue of their tread design will still actually function in bad conditions, whereas a lot of really high quality newer tyres won't do as well. (I'm taking a wheel set off for refurb soon, they've got crap Federal 595 SSs on, but I bet one scottish pound they'd do better on snow and ice than my RE050s. And maybe 10p that they'd be better than the Eagle F5s.)
I've been pretty consistently amazed and disappointed by Subaru owners in particular... You'd think, if you buy a WRX or an STi you'd be pretty performance conscious but as often as not they come with random crap on. The previous owner of my Legacy bought it at japanese auction, imported it and registered it all himself- then went "260bhp awd car which I put great effort and expense into finding? Guess I'll stick 2 Goodrides, an Autogrip and a single good Pirelli on it so that if you floor it in the wet you might as well roll a dice to decide which direction it goes in"
Meanwhile the one set of really good wheels and tyres I've bought for it used, came off a nonturbo impreza wagon. Maybe he was the only one that could afford tyres after the insurance?
I think there are two types of subaru owners. old men* and chavs.
*i've got the OE spec yokahama geolandars all seasons on mine.
i think you are overestimating how much the majority consider tyres at all. I would suggest most people go for the cheapest or next cheapest option when they need to for the MOT.
aka ditchfinder specials.
Mrs D drives me mad in this respect.
Her: - My car needs new tyres - sort it out for me
Me: OK, these look good at £60 (it's only a little Fiesta, nothing fancy)
Her: What about those at £30
Me: They're shit
Her: But they are half the price
Me: Yes, and shit. Listen, tyres are THE thing between your car and the road. Just pay a bit and get decent ones
Her: But I don't want to spend a load on tyres - waste of money
etc etc
@Northwind. SiL is happy to fit remoulds / seconds to formerly her Imprezza and now her Evo X 🙁 - utter madness in my opinion
Is there an issue with pressures too? One of our cars (ignus) wants the tyres to be around 36psi and the TPMS gets upset and starts flashing warnings when they get “down” near 30psi. I would have thought that 30psi was about the maximum you’d want for decent grip in bad conditions. I’m no expert, but it hardly seems worth fitting all-season tyres if you need to run them at 36psi to keep the TPMS happy.
Winter tires work on the compound and tread design
Tire pressure lowering is a last resort to get you out a sticky situation should.mot habitually run lower(or higher) pressures than recommended for the weight of the vehicle.
Also your Tpms.baseline pressure should be resettable in the menus somewhere if it's looking for a value rather than a net Change.
Thanks. I was just surprised that such a light vehicle (Ignus) was wanting such high pressures. It sounds as though the best approach is still to fit decent tyres and run them at whatever pressure the manufacturer recommends though. There are three settings in the menu but even the lowest (comfort) setting wants them over 30psi.
Correct tyre pressure is dependant on a few things such as tyre size, construction and vehicle weight. You can't just say all cars need to be around 30psi for best grip.
All season and winter tyres are designed such that they run at similar pressures if not the same to summer tyres. They may have softer more gripper compound and construction and also have thinner more flexible sidewalls so even at normal tyre pressure the tyre will deform and key into the road surface.
I'll just pop my head into the room and say that I agree Cross Climates are excellent. Well, they are leagues better than the factory fit Bridgestone Turanzas that came on the van at least, and have pulled us about Stirlingshire in all weathers with no fuss recently.
Is the Ignus specced with thin tyres? could be a reason for the higher pressures?
I'm a convert to the Michelin Cross Climates.
I've hada set on my Outlander for 2years now and they are grippier in all conditions, quieter and more hard wearing than the tyres it came with.
They are just as good in the snow as the Winter tyres i had on my Pathfinder.
I'll be fitting them to every car I have from now on.
Apparently you can get winter tyres (mud & snow) for motorbikes too, which is something I didn't know.
Big fan here as well.
Have them on the V70 and the Polo.
On the current sheet ice that passes for a road in our housing estate we are having no issues getting in or out.
My partner drove around somebody (after waiting for 10 minutes) last week trying to get moving on a flattish bit of road. Personally I would have got out and gave them a push.
The Polo and Cross Climates combo is a total joy in this weather!
Of course one of the other problems with speccing summer / eco tyres on new cars is emissions claims. If you buy a new Subaru from Aird Motors in Invernesshire, an extra 2mpg or (until recently) lower tax bracket is way down the list of priorities as you go up over Slochd on the A9 in a blizzard. Alas, eco figures are something that all sale models must display, so easy rolling summer / eco tyres it is.
Similarly, the BMW saleseman accompanying your test drive knows those big chunky smooth shoulders on the ultra low profile tyres will give great steering feel as you hoon round roundabouts for 15 minutes. They will be abysmal through standing water on cambered country lanes lined with mud, slush and leaves but he's got your cash by then.
Blame the fashion for ever bigger allows and the Nurburgring.
if you want crossclimates, now is the time to buy them. just paid a shade over £400 fitted for 4x 225/65r17 crossclimate SUV's for my outback. £50 off 4 and 10% off after that plus free dash cam.
I was hoping to get through the summer on my geolandars but clipped a kerb and put a big gouge in the side of one yesterday. only 2.5mm left so got my monies worth.
Blame the fashion for ever bigger allows and the Nurburgring.
Can't really blame the Nurburgring, most race cars use small wheels and higher* profile tyres. F1 is predicted to lose about 2s a lap as a result of the switch to 18" wheels!
It's entirely fashion.
*Than fashionable, they're still lower profile than the days of cross ply tyres which only came in a standard profile. Although probably/mostly because 200mm+ section tyres weren't a thing back in those days.
if you want crossclimates, now is the time to buy them
I seem to remember you picking up a real bargain set on your previous car. I had a look on Blackcircles, the 40 quid off 4 offer seems to be offset by them having put the price up by roughly a tenner each since I last looked! Anyway, I've plenty of tread to see the summer out so I'll hang fire for now.
I got a set of free winter tyres off someone who'd sold their car last October.
Sold them for £40 this spring, beat that 😜
yup. paid £250 from amazon prime and £50 for fitting for a set a couple of years back on my A3.
Sold them for £40 this spring, beat that
Should have hung on to them until Autumn, you might have been able to get £45 for them.
I got a set of free winter tyres off someone who’d sold their car last October.
Sold them for £40 this spring, beat that
Did the same, maybe sold for £50 because when I took them for free I was feeling generous and put £50 into charity. Do I win for philanthropy?!
Now that I’m using the car with the CCs fitted on a daily basis and they are about half worn I am finding a definite squirm under cornering, braking feel is not there and grip is definitely down compared to a summer tyre. Might give the contis ago when changing.