You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
By complete chance had my car booked in for new fronts this morning and had gone with Kleber cross climate ones (subsidiary of Michelin) - other brands available but these got good reviews and were pretty cheap.
Set off to Doncaster in beautiful dry sunny weather and didn’t even see snow forecast. On dry fast roads they were nice and quiet with plenty of grip, got to the model flying field set the plane up and the blizzard hit.
By the time I had packed up there was a good inch on the ground and tyres were just brilliant. No wheel spin, nothing - just drove straight off the field and onto snowy roads. Got back to Sheffield and the hilly roads near my house were packed snow already and again, not even a hint of spinning up going up them and they never felt like they were going to break grip.
Highly recommend anyone thinking about them to get them fitted, at least to the driving wheels, next time your due a set. Don’t think I’d have made it home nearly so easily without them 🙂
The problem tends to be everyone else when you're on winter tyres, in my experience...
I'm still riding the wave of smugness from passing a Range Rover stuck in two inches of snow on a slight gradient three years ago.
Just wait till the confidence the cross climates give you when fitted to the front overtake the limited capability of the standard tyres fitted to the rear.
Not a good idea to have mismatched tyres front/rear.
Got a link to the Kleber tyres? AFAIK the Crossclimate are Michelin-branded (we have them on our Tiguan 4motion and they're great).
@somafunk. Any first hand experience? According to tyre people I have spoken to , so long as you drive sensibly it’s fine to have all season on the drive wheels and normal on the rears. It is the fronts that slip and break traction far more readily than the rears (FWD of course) and you don’t (shouldn’t?!) barrel into corners when slippery which is when the rears are most likely to go. When the rears need doing though I’ll fit them anyway for completeness.
@idiotdigbrain - https://www.kleber-tyres.com/auto/tyres/kleber-quadraxer2?home=true I just got mine through Black Circles at £62 a corner for 16”
By complete chance had my car booked in for new fronts this mornin
Obviously not at the place I tried to buy some from last winter, they absolutely point blank refused to leave the new tyres on the front wheels and were quite surprised when I told them I'd go elsewhere. I've heard it before about putting the best tyres at the rear and if it's their company policy then they should state this before taking any orders/payment but the way I see it is as away of convincing gullible customers to buy 4 tyres instead of 2. I fail to see how putting summer tyres on the front wheels and all season on the rears of a fwd van is safer when theres snow on the ground and have used winters f/ summers r for many winters without a single slide or skid. I would say in most of the UK the all seasons are a better option than full winters and I've struggled to tell the difference between the Goodyear All Seasons I have now to the Michelin Winters I had before them
We have the Michelin version front and rear. Fit and forget.
According to tyre people I have spoken to , so long as you drive sensibly it’s fine to have all season on the drive wheels and normal on the rears.
If you have winter conditions then the front will have more grip so in adverse conditions the back will slide. Most likely when you are having to do an emergency/ evasive manoeuvre so driving calmly is not an option. Did the tyre place have a staff member who is an engineer eg. rubber chemistry/ tyre or car suspension design or is an experienced car manufacturer tester? If not I would not be incline to take their word as accurate
Do yourself a favour and get them put on the back too. To not do so is dangerous.
It’s far easier to control understeer than oversteer, and why its recommended if you’re only changing a pair of tyres is to put them on the rear and swap the rears to the front.
I got a set of winter tyres for a FWD Panda a few years ago and couldn’t believe how good they were, I drove 3 miles into the middle of a forest to watch a rally and nobody else could make it in.
Yep had them for years on our V70 - not quite as good in deep snow as the Vredestein full winter tyres it had at some point but they wore quick in summer whereas the Crossclimates are fit and forget.
I put them on my previous car (A6 Quattro) and it transformed it in pretty much all conditions, so I ran a few sets over the following 50k miles.
Swopped out the factory tyres on current car (Q5) a month or so back for CrossClimates even though originals only had 7.5k on them. Car is similarly sure footed to the previous one now, also better in the wet and quieter.
I understood that it was better to have the best tyres on the rear on the grounds that the last thing you want is the back of the car overtaking the front! I think for years people have assumed it's the driving wheels that are most important but that was one of those things that was true because it was obvious
That aside they seem like a good buy at that price
@avdave2 - I think the difference here is that there is, from a getting up a snowy hill point of view, cross climate on the rears only on an FWD car, wouldn’t make it any better and you’ll still break traction.
That said, the rears giving out and the front digging in being a *very bad thing* makes sense in most other scenarios so will look at getting it booked in for the rears also.
Goodyear think it's a bad idea
You should not mix all season and summer tyres. If you are changing your tyres to all season, you should put all season tyres on all four wheels. Equally, you should not mix all season tyres with winter tyres or summer tyres with winter tyres. Always fit the same type of tyre on all four wheels.
If you mix tyres, you will create an imbalance in grip and traction which will increase the chances of you losing control of your vehicle. Cars rely on all four tyres evenly, regardless of whether your car is rear wheel drive or front wheel drive and as such the same tyre should be fitted on all four wheels.
this is why they recommend all four wheels
I’ve now got Vredestein Quatrac Pro’s on Mrs Inbreds X1 and the cheaper Quatrac 5’s on the mini. Both all season. I could have gone with them on the front only as the X1 had the original Michelins summer tyre on the back with plenty of tread but they were 4 yrs old and I didn’t want to mix them as it’s 4WD. £125 each fitted for 225/50/18’s W speed rating (as if!)from black circles. As has been said earlier fit and forget. To be fair most tyre places now will fit the new ones to the back and switch the worns to the front if their is appreciable wear difference. If you loose the front you can usually get it back, if you loose the rear you’re stuffed.
I had some Michelin cross climates fitted to the front of my car in October. I moaned at the tyre place as I wanted eco tyres (cars a hybrid) but the lease company insist on cross climates when available. Absolutely brilliant compared to the originals. To those saying that they should be fitted to all four wheels - I’m sure that would be better, but the lease company will oddly only replace the tyres when they are worn, and the fronts wore much quicker than the rears. I will howeve let actually ask for cross climates next time as the car handles so much better in every condition. Most of my driving is also on tiny local muddy roads.
To those saying that they should be fitted to all four wheels – I’m sure that would be better, but the lease company will oddly only replace the tyres when they are worn, and the fronts wore much quicker than the rears.
I would be emailing the lease company with that information from Goodyear. Also I would check what my insurance provider position was.
Being ultra pedantic those videos relate to winter tyres and not cross climate where the grip imbalance in snow is going to be much greater however I can see why having much more grip at the front can be a bad thing. I did give it some welly around the field to test the traction at the front (having previously got stuck on it) and the rear didn't try and step out at all.
Either way - car booked in for the rears to be done next week to be sure. Still - doesn't affect my opinion of the concept. Brilliant things...
I wouldn't trust a tyre fitter that let anyone fit winters just to one axle, cross climate's are a slightly different matter as not as marked a grip difference vs summers compared to full winter. Have even seen in some car manuals that they specifically say not to do this, some cars even say all 4 tyres should be same brand and model - the reasons for this are even more complicated than just a simple handling balance thing. Most modern cars have all sorts electronic systems going on in the background ABS, Electronic brake force distribution, emergency brake assist, E-diffs, the effectiveness of which can be affected by mixing up tyres of significantly differing grip levels. I know my car manual says not to do this as I read it as complete nerdalert...an older or simpler car may not be so much of an issue.
I should have cross climates fitted on my car by now. Was convinced of their effectiveness when one of the vans at my old work had them fitted and they found grip in pretty much any condition. I fitted new summers to the front of my car back in December last year with the rears being half worn and by now they would normally all need replacing so was going to go for cross climates this time. Sadly with the restrictions the fronts still have 6mm on them and the rears 4mm. Couldn't justify changing them with plenty of life left and as I'm not working I'll just walk if I get snow here.
My Maxxis all seasons have been great the last few snowy, slushy days even after the fact the fronts have worn down below the outer edge sypes and are being replaced on Monday. I thought they'd have gone past their best like that but it seems not. I'd not go back to summer rubber.
Have even seen in some car manuals that they specifically say not to do this, some cars even say all 4 tyres should be same brand and model – the reasons for this are even more complicated than just a simple handling balance thing. Most modern cars have all sorts electronic systems going on in the background ABS, Electronic brake force distribution, emergency brake assist, E-diffs, the effectiveness of which can be affected by mixing up tyres of significantly differing grip levels.
Is the grip between two different manufacturers greater that the difference caused by wear on front vs rear after several thousand miles?
Tyre manufacturers have an interest in selling tyres so their answer is always going to involve you buying more tyres.
I wish it was an option to get all seasons fitted at new. We asked on our focus but it wasn't. Makes far more sense driving around the NE of England.
Agree , we have a difficult exit from a steep driveway back up an ungritted narrow hill. Both our awd cars with cross climates never have a problem. I ploughed through a foot of fresh the other day in the S3 and it was fine.
I've currently got Michelin CC on mine. Feel like a summer tyre during the summer but offer some of the benefits of winter tyres during winter, perfect for the needs of most people really. I wouldn't use anything less for year round use. They're not remarkable in the snow, they do OK but not as good as other winter tyres I've used.
Re. Front and back differentials. First time I used winters I fitted to the front only. It's a good way to find out how much difference they make... Caught me out one day having some playful low-speed fun in a couple inches of snow. Expecting the front to slide a bit and just steer into it, the grip was so strong the rear just span round the front wheels like it was on skates. I could easily see how you could quickly get into serious trouble if you did lose control at higher speeds. I'd always have them on both axles now.
winter tyres on my yeti (4x4) were freaking amazing this year.
sailed up (and back down) the mother-in-law's road the other day, 5 years I've been waiting for the opportunity to try them out properly.....5 bloody years 😀
but yeah, you'd be bat shit to want to mix winter and normal tyres.
@idiotdigbrain – https://www.kleber-tyres.com/auto/tyres/kleber-quadraxer2?home=true
I'm sorry to be pedantic, but those aren't CrossClimates, they're All-Season tyres.
All-Season tyres are generally developed using a winter tyre and working backwards to make it usable in summer. CrossClimates were developed by Michelin by starting with a summer tyre and making it usable in winter. Subtle, but important difference.
As you were.. 😁
@idiotdogbrain - interesting. And Kleber are Michelin so I wonder how much cross development there is :). I thought CrossClimate was just Michelin's trademarked name and the generic was all season but more than happy to be wrong 😀
Either way they worked very well today in both bone dry and snowy conditions so I'm happy...
[url= https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.evo.co.uk/features/15600/michelin-cross-climate-vs-winter-and-all-season-tyres%3famp ]CrossClimate vs Winter vs All-season[/url]
Interesting read...
When I replaced my front tyres Cosco would only fit the new Goodyear Vectors to the rear. Fine by me. AI already had all seasons on all 4 wheels. the Conti version. Not as good in snow as the Goodyear Vectors. Having experienced the difference in traction between good all seasons and summer tyres in the snow I wouldn't want ato drive a car with b no grip at the back. Accident waiting to happen.
I had a set of Goodyears on my last Octavia and it was great in snow. THe only car in my street that got out and about during the beast from the east in 2018.
The Goodyears were also far quieter than the OE Bridgestones they replaced.
j4mie
It’s far easier to control understeer than oversteer,
Not if you learnt to drive on a RWD car and did subsequent skid pan training on a RWD car.
I hate understeer in a car it scares me that I will go ploughing on off the road!
Learnt to drive on a Hillman Avenger then had a MkII Escort van followed by a 3000E Capri and a Manta GTE. Had a 306 GTi6 & MkII Scirocco GTi that drove well for a FWD as you could easily get lift off oversteer. I'm no Surfmatt but usually FWD feels strange to me on the limit? Not something I do these days though being old and slow 😉
But Winter tyres on any car are a revelation in crap weather.
I've been sold on winter/all-season tyres ever since we fitted them to a Fiesta, my wife (who hates driving in snow) managed to get off the motorway after 5 hours of sitting in stationary traffic) and get home via the hilly side roads whilst passing all the 4x4s sliding around at the side of the road. Hundreds of people spent the whole night on the motorway. Then they helped our Fiesta tiptoe up a steep glassy ice covered track with enough control to swerve into a ditch when two 4x4s came sliding down the hill using the hedge and their paintwork to keep them on the road!
We started with Kleber Quadraxers (all-season) but found them a bit wandery in the summer when we got a more powerful, heavier car. We then went through a set of Nokian Weatherproof tyres which about pretty aggressive all-season tyres, they wore a bit quicker but made the car look a bit like a tractor! Now on Michelin CrossClimates which are a happy medium.
Those insisting on fitting new, or all-season/winter tyres to the front axle...its all well and good whilst you are driving 'sensibly and carefully' for the last two years, but try reminding yourself to drive carefully when you are doing 50mph on cold January evening after a long day at work, someone comes up to a give way a bit aggressively and you make a minor swerve as they stop overhanging your lane. Subpar tyres on the back...gambling that they are going to stick, or let go and in a split second, broadside you into the oncoming traffic for a lethal side impact at a closing speed of 100mph? You don't need to spent long on youtube before it offers you a few dashcam videos showing how quick a truck can split a car in two when losing the back end. The back of your car is normally lighter than the front and even with matched tyres its not hard to find yourself in a situation where you are trying to turn around on a hill in the snow, and find the rear of the car crabbing sideways and hampering your efforts to point the front of the car downhill. A bit of stationary wheelspin normally overcomes that problem by allowing the front to slide downhill quicker than the back!
Plus, whats the point of going through three sets of front tyres and still running an old set of 8 year old, hardened, slightly perished rear tyres? Let the garage fit new to the rear, your rears with 6mm of tread will do absolutely fine on the front, and this way you renew all your tyres rather than just one pair. I try to rotate ours so that they wear relatively evenly, and then replace all at the same time which means you can change brands etc without having a mismatch between axles.
braking traction is also better with 4 winters on. i have had winters on the front of a fwd car and all season on the back and ended up pointing the wrong way before, 5.30 am on the motorway luckily.no harm done! in my younger days i was skeptical and thought i was being upsold but i will always buy 4 winters at once now .
i can always justify the cost as being much cheaper than an accident.
I understood that it was better to have the best tyres on the rear on the grounds that the last thing you want is the back of the car overtaking the front!
This is my understanding, too.
Losing the front end through understeer is bad.
Losing the back end and spinning could be catastrophic.
Just ask Vettel.
I'm happy with the idea of keeping a good grip on the back. I went to Costco for new fronts on our Smart and guy on the desk started filling out the form to tell the fitter to put them on the back and move the old back ones to the front. I pointed out they are different sizes and he started again. But the reason they are different sizes is that the first Smarts had the same size all round, and people kept losing the back end, so they changed the design to keep 145/65 on the front and wider 175/55 on the back.
Lease companies don’t authorise winter / non standard tyres (I’ve tried many times)
Tyre people sound like cowboys of the best order.
Op you are now driving an unbalanced dangerous car
I should clarify - it wasn’t the tyre fitters that said it was ok rather other tyre people I know.
Car is booked in for the rears to be done 🙂
I just put winter tyres on the left hand side of the car. Gives better grip going round icy roundabouts.
Nothing wrong with that is there?
A bit too early to be changing the tyres on my Ford, they’ve only got a bit over 5000 miles on them at the moment, Goodyear, not entirely sure what flavour, though; I will be going over the the Michelin Cross Climates, they seem to consistently get the best all round reviews, although those the OP posted up look interesting.
I’ve managed to nearly double the mileage on them since August, when they were 14 months old - better start using a piggy-bank for when I need a new set!
^^^ my original tyres didn’t have much more on them but I really didn’t fancy going through the winter on them, so bit the bullet with CrossClimates all round.
Re front/back/pair, this is a perennial STW thread, same as "new tyres on the rear". But basically, you've got them on the wheels, you've got some bad conditions to try them in, so play about, see if it works or not, then go forward based on that rather than on opinions of someone who's never driven your car.
The arguments do make sense but my real world experience of "front winters/allseasons, normal rears" was that it worked really pretty well. Not as good as 4 winters, miles better than no winters. The grip bias on that car was such that the lower grip on the back just wasn't the issue you'd expect- the fronts were doing all the hard work and the winters were making a vast difference, the rears had less grip but needed less grip and so it worked better than the internet will tell you. As for dangerous? Well, it was far safer than just having summer tyres on like most people.
Just this once it is socially responsible to go and dick about in a frozen car park.
As a cheapskate I have some Pirelli winter tyres on the front of Benoit the Berlingo.
And bog standard Firestone Multihawks on the back.
It still understeers on cold wet roads.
" According to tyre people I have spoken to , so long as you drive sensibly it’s fine to have all season on the drive wheels and normal on the rears. It is the fronts that slip and break traction far more readily than the rears (FWD of course) and you"
The same tyre people who , ten years ago, didn't recognise the need, the market, for winter tyres in the uk? "just stick a bag of sand in the boot!"...
It still understeers on cold wet roads.
This was my thinking also. The car I had at the time had serious understeer issues, and they remained (just to a lesser extent) with winters on front and summer on back. But in the snow completely different, which is partly what took me by surprise when I found myself going backwards. I really could not fathom how a car with so little grip on the front had suddenly adopted completely opposite characteristics. It definitely made me think about the edge cases of what might happen in events that we generally don't experience on a day to day basis, and I'd rather not find out.
Lease companies don’t authorise winter / non standard tyres (I’ve tried many times)
Tyre people sound like cowboys of the best order.
Another poster mentioned that cross climates are summer / standard tyres made a bit more wintery?
I booked my tyre appointment through the Arval lease portal, which then took me to ATS who replaced the tyres for me. I didn't pay any money, so I assume they were authorised.
It made sense to me at the time that a lease company would want their vehicles to have tyres like this fitted as more likely to stay on the road.
EDIT - thinking about this again, it may be linked to my company specifying these tyres. We recently moved from company owned vehicles to leased, but all company owned vehicles were fitted with crossClimates when tyres were replaced.
This was my thinking also. The car I had at the time had serious understeer issues, and they remained (just to a lesser extent) with winters on front and summer on back. But in the snow completely different, which is partly what took me by surprise when I found myself going backwards.
Yea, it wasn't a decision, someone offered a pair of nearly new winter tyres and wheels for free, and mine were at the legal limit on the outer shoulder.
I'm sensible enough driving summer tyres in deep snow so I'm erring towards this being better than nothing, if not as good as it could be. And might help in a straight line emergency braking on the motorway which is realistically the worst they'll be called upon to do.
I had winter tyres on my last car. Hype asside I really couldn't tell the difference. No one drives in a way where you could actually say "Michelin cross climates shaved 30s off my country lane commute" much less be able to actually tell if there's more grip without actually testing that limit. They were noisy and wore funny in the end though.
If you're looking at Crossclimates, I'd recommend also checking out the Bridgestone a005 all-weather tyres.
I've run Crossclimates on a few vehicles and the Bridgestones feel identical.
Although - if you have a powerful vehicle, change them for summer tyres in warmer conditions. I destroyed two fronts in less than a year with my 300bhp front wheel drive hothatch.
My personal experience with Cross Climate+ tyres is that they wear better than the stock Hankook tyres by some significant margin, mpg doesn't appear to be very different, but most importantly I can use the car (German, RWD & auto) in situations that the stock tyres proved lacking - mild snow & muddy car parks.
They've done a couple of trips to Italy, up to the Lakes including mild levels of snow in January & February, and general driving around.
Although – if you have a powerful vehicle, change them for summer tyres in warmer conditions. I destroyed two fronts in less than a year with my 300bhp front wheel drive hothatch.
My 122 bhp Corolla destroyed two fronts in less than a year too (humble brag) 🤣
I put 4 falken euro all seasons on our kadjar as they looked like the cross climate and were cheaper😂. The main reason was muddy cyclo cross event car parks. That never materialised but have been happy enough with their winter performance
if you have a powerful vehicle, change them for summer tyres in warmer conditions. I destroyed two fronts in less than a year with my 300bhp front wheel drive hothatch.
I think that might be your driving, not the power at the wheels. 😃
Car is booked in for the rears to be done
Sensible.
Earlier in the week I was riding with a pal and the car park we met in was icy/snowy and we watched a van struggle across it. I laughed I suggested he have a go, as he always said that winter tyres are pointless, but he'd put a pair on the front.
And said he'd no problem that day getting up the hill by his house - I replied that his bigger problem now was getting back down...
I live in rural Scotland and swap my wheels over to an 18" set with winters in November, swapping back to the 19" in late April (or May depending on the winter).
I had winter tyres on my last car. Hype asside I really couldn’t tell the difference. No one drives in a way where you could actually say “Michelin cross climates shaved 30s off my country lane commute”
During the Beast from the East in 2018 I got a near back to back comparison. My car was an Octavia FWD with Goodyear 4 Seasons. At work I was driving an Octavia Scout on summer tyres. THe difference wasn't noticeable on cold wet salted roads. Once onto packed snow or soft snow it was night and day.
Not sure how much time it would shave as I wouldn't drive faster on a commute but the increased safety margin is worth having.
I work shifts so sometimes, very rarely, drive on roads where the snow hasn't been plowed or gritted yet. I wouldn't have anthing but all seasons on my car now.
Sadly, this last week, crossclimates have been enabling me to get in to work at all hours to clear the snow. The new model is meant to be even better
Very similar to above, driving and Octavia estate, in 2017/18 the snow we had before Christmas I had summer tyres on my car* and was getting stuck on the slightest of slopes, when the beast hit in Feb 2018 I had crossclimates and it was a huge relief, night and day difference
(* I had winter tyres on the car and kept the summers in storage, however my winters needed changing and as I wasn’t working at the time, and Christmas was near, I decided to save some cash and put the summers on, yeah I know)
The same tyre people who , ten years ago, didn’t recognise the need, the market, for winter tyres in the uk?
^^^^^^^^Very much this^^^^^^^
Tyres are a factor in winter driving but actually knowing how to drive in winter conditions should be part of the driving test. The number of people I see hitting brakes then sliding down hills out of control rather than using gears to control speed in the UK is frightening, and having spent a fair bit of time abroad snowboarding in past winters is pretty rare in other countries where they get more predictable weather.
I will put all seasons on the rears WHEN they need changing, and having used full winters on the front for over 10 years (winter only)I'd say all seasons are probably better all rounder in most of the uk. Despite manufacturers recommendations I still say it's better having all season tyres on the drive/steering wheels than having summer tyres all round throughout the winter months, which is what virtually everyone I know still does
than using gears to control speed in the UK is frightening,
Have you tried this in a car on these new fangled eco tires.....
That truely is frightening. I'm quite happy using the gears to control speed.
I actually prematurely changed our stock eco tires as they were Frankly lethal on all but a bright sunny summer's day. .....of which we get about 3 months worth this far north -helps them get better efficiency ratings at type approval though.
So, this week I've been driving around in the snow on Michelin CC, but with more snow coming down and further snow forecast throughout the week I thought I'd put the full winters back on. Had been meaning to sell them on but never got round to it, hence they were lying around.
First impressions, significantly more noise but also significantly more grip in the snow.
We have a full set of CC on our car, had them fitted a couple of years ago, it’s a little FIAT 500. Had no issues this past week with the relatively minor amount of snow we have had. Compared to a summer tyre they are amazing. The wife has used them in the past when we had 2-3 inches and got to work on snow covered roads with no issues.
At the moment the snow has all thawed and been compacted into ice now in a lot of shady places and become quite lethal. I imagine they offer a small amount more grip than a summer tyre, but still being very careful, difficult to even stand as it’s polished smooth.
They are the best tyre for us, I don’t want two sets of wheels and tyres, and it removes the uncertainty in the British winter. No downside in the summer, they are better than the Continental summer tyres the car came with.
trail_rat
Free MemberHave you tried this in a car on these new fangled eco tires…..
Not even just ecos- the trend towards "3 fat central bands" which seems to be the norm on most new summer/touring/performance tyres seems definitely worse for winter. Eagles, Pilot Sports and Primacys, Turanzas, and loads more all share a pretty similar design and tbf one look and you can tell it's not going to work well on snow even when brand new- and then before they're a quarter worn most of the tread on the central bands fades away.
Comparing with say the V12 Evos I used before which were a much more conventionally "treaded" tyre in the same market space it's pretty amazing the difference. Due to some Bad Logistics I had to have the pilot sports on the legacy for a bit this winter and the grip in snow is just fantastically awful. Worse than even the cheap ditchfinders of a few years ago.
Michelin Agiles cross climate commercials on the caravelle here - grippy and quiet with the added benefits of looking like monster truck tyres and don’t seem to wear at all.
If only they made them big enough that I could use them all year round
d tbf one look and you can tell it’s not going to work well on snow even when brand new- and then before they’re a quarter worn most of the tread on the central bands fades away.
It's not even just snow. Damp roads/pulling out of junctions 9months of the year are a lottery. I've run pretty shady tires over the years from remoulds to part worns out the junkyard to 20 quid kwikfit specials..... And still not experianced anything as bad as the eco tires.... Had them on the Berlingo from.new and had them on a few hire cars.
Have winters(snowflake and mountain marked all terrains) on my camper and my land rover
And Nokian winters on the Berlingo now on steels with some other summer tire on the alloys but tbh they rarely get put on. The winters just suit much more of the year.....
The number of people I see hitting brakes then sliding down hills out of control rather than using gears to control speed in the UK is frightening
Been doing that for almost as long as I’ve been driving, roughly forty years, and never had a serious issue in snow, apart from turning right where there wasn’t just snow, but the road was part flooded and frozen. As I turned the wheel the car just gently went straight on until I hit the grass bank of the ditch by the side of the road. Bugger.
A fair bit of rocking back and forth from reverse to first got me off the bank, and very, very carefully continued on my way.
I’m not entirely sure how I’ll manage with my new car, as it’s a semi-auto, with paddles for manual override, and, while I’ve driven many, many miles over the last five years, I’ve not really driven much in snow with an auto, so not certain about engine braking, or how an auto copes with lifting off on a slippery surface.
Yet another reason to seriously consider cross-climates, either the Michelin or the Falken ones, which are a very similar tread pattern, as pointed out.
They are a bit cheaper than the CC’s, at least through Black Circles. I might get a better deal through the dealership I bought the car through, if they’d be open to taking the part-worns in exchange...
if you have a powerful vehicle, change them for summer tyres in warmer conditions. I destroyed two fronts in less than a year with my 300bhp front wheel drive hothatch.
Certainly driving style. Its motorbikes yes but my pal with a zzr1100 used to get much better tyre life than me with my lighter less powerful r1100rs. Really annoyed me. He got better MPG as well - this was on a 2000 mile ride where we rode together
Any first hand experience? According to tyre people I have spoken to , so long as you drive sensibly it’s fine to have all season on the drive wheels and normal on the rears.
Yup 😉
Always get all 4 now.
Certainly driving style.
not just driving style.
my old A3 TDi quattro ripped through tyres, particularly rears. rarely got more than 12K from a set.
my outback is on 18k on the current set and less than 50% worn. both ~140BHP diesels.
same roads, same commute, same speeds.
Some lease companies will allow winter tyres - a friend successfully lobbied them to - he did 50+k miles a year though - his argument was that he would wear them out before winter arrived - they were happy to allow it.
I’m still riding the wave of smugness from passing a Range Rover stuck in two inches of snow on a slight gradient three years ago.
I have to say that I really struggle to believe that is the full truth - yes I 100% agree that tyres make all the difference (having been a one-time off-road 4x4 enthusiast and having seen many modern 4x4s truly stuck in the mud at the Tong off-road track) but a Range Rover stuck in a little bit of snow on a slight gradient - I don't swallow that. My last few cars have been 4x4s (A6 Avant, XC60 and now a Merc GLC) and all have had standard manufacturer tyres fitted and never struggled in a little snow on a slight gradient (in fact I easily drove off the car park at Stainburn at the weekend when many 2WD cars were really struggling in compacted ice).
Ah but thats cause you have some training and experience on how to handle a car in less than ideal situations.
Most drivers wont have much or any experience driving a car in very low grip conditions. I also recon there is a large proportion of divers who don't even know the theory on how to drive in snowy conditions beyond "drive slowly as it's slippery".
They may also be too used to modern cars and the systems they come with to bail them out of trouble. A lot of these systems are very good but they can't always save you from being an idiot or in adverse situations.
Also anyone running a van and wanting to fit all season tyres, I fitted Pirelli Carrier All Season tyres to my camper this spring and I've been very impressed with them. They are similar to the Michelin cross climate tyres ie biased towards summer performance with enough winter performance to keep you moving.
They are quiet, grip well in dry and warm conditions. In horribly wet conditions they cleared water well and I'm yet to feel any of that floaty aquaplaning feeling from going through puddles, they just cut straight through the water with little drag on the tyre. In the cold they have remained tacky and are keying into the surface rather than going plastic and hard. It has not snowed or been very frosty over in my part of the world yet so not tied them in those conditions but tyre tests show they should considerably outperform a summer tyre in those conditions.
I prefer to run the tyres slightly above manufacture recommended pressures or nearer towards the heavily loaded rating, there appears to be less wallow feeling and more consistent feedback. There is a slight loss of comfort but the extra confidence you have is preferable for me and as I've only been driving normal road speeds I have not experienced any loss of grip from the higher pressures.
Anyone tried the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons ones? My OH's Mini is in need of tyres and these look good. Trouble is, they cost more in her size (175/65/15) than some of the bigger sizes, presumably because there aren't many cars using this size.
I’m still riding the wave of smugness from passing a Range Rover stuck in two inches of snow on a slight gradient three years ago.
I have to say that I really struggle to believe that is the full truth – yes I 100% agree that tyres make all the difference (having been a one-time off-road 4×4 enthusiast and having seen many modern 4x4s truly stuck in the mud at the Tong off-road track) but a Range Rover stuck in a little bit of snow on a slight gradient – I don’t swallow that.
I totally buy it, witnessed a lady abandoning a Range Rover in similar conditions in Edinburgh, she clearly wasn't happy and was panicking. I've no doubt the issue was the driver, not the vehicle.
Running Crossclimates on all our 3. Tourneo Custom and Connect have the Plus and the camper on the Crossclimate Agilis. Woke up to 5" of snow on the carpark in Sestriere at the end of September. Old tyres wouldn't have got us off the carpark. The new ones got us off with ease and all the way to the valley bottom without having to fit the chains.
ATS always seem to have some deal going on them for more than two.
Yet another reason to seriously consider cross-climates, either the Michelin or the Falken ones, which are a very similar tread pattern, as pointed out.
They are a bit cheaper than the CC’s, at least through Black Circles. I might get a better deal through the dealership I bought the car through, if they’d be open to taking the part-worns in exchange…
We have Falken Euroall on both cars. IIRC the local place had them about £20 cheaper per corner. Clearly not STW first choice, but night and day compared to summer tyres... the post Christmas snow dump, we just got in the car and drove (at reduced speed, obvs).
Not sure I could tell the difference between them and the CCs, but I'm not trying to make progress in the snow in my antique Honda - just get where I'm going without incident. I guess the CCs use a marginally better compound or more sipes. Wonder if there's much difference when worn?
Anyone tried the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons ones?
Yep, got the Gen 3s on our Skoda Octavia Estate. Only had them a month or so (based in Edinburgh) but they seem great (though that's only in comparison to the standard ones that were fitted previously). Not tried any other all season tyres though but they get v good reviews across the board
What Michelin say about Cross Climates